How much do you make?

[Cali vet]

My novia of just over a year finally asked me how much I make. I'm sure she's been dying to ask for a long time. If you earned just 750 bucks a month that's over two million pesos. The basic salery which is what the great majority (including my novia) earn is about 340 thousand including a transportation stipend. The head honcho in charge nationwide of the company she works at (telecommunications)  earns 3 million or about $1080. If you have the income of a Walmart greeter in the US you could live well in strata five. I told her we gringos have a very old "don't ask, don't tell" custom in that regard and that we'd just leave it at that. Any one else get poped the question?

[KnowledgeIsPwr]

... in response to How much do you make?, posted by Cali vet on Dec 17, 2002


Vet,

If your novia, was your wife, would you not tell her?

After a year, I think that the gold digging is probably not as big of an issue, and I've found that chicks really like guys (especially their MAN) who are not afraid to share.  

Women are very communal creatures (AW & LW alike), and when guys don't share, especially on something that it has taken them a lot of time to build up the courage to ask, it's kind of like a punch in the stomach.

IMHO (if it were me), if you're digging your novia, and working towards something long term, I would at least tell her something like "my after tax amount, minus 10 to 20 percent", and I'd add some unknown information like the fact that life in the States is more expensive, higher sells taxes, car payments, the mortage/rent, etc.  Basically just outline that although the money made might be more then she's use to, that it gets eaten up VERY fast!

For me, I wouldn't be afraid to disclose any information that comes in the form of a question because the day might come we she stops asking them, and I don't think you really want that.

Just my thoughts, and I wish you both continued happiness!

KIP

[lswote]

... in response to How much do you make?, posted by Cali vet on Dec 17, 2002

I remember reading something when I first started this foreign bride thing six months ago explaining how a Russian woman made $200 a month so if you made $800 a month you were rich in their eyes.  Well I don't know enough about Russia or even Colombia for that matter to know how exactly they make ends meet on $200 a month, but I know any American only making $800 a month better be living at home with mom or dad or he will be living in a homeless shelter.  So the "image" of rich doesn't match up to the realtity of what $800 buys in the good ole USA.

The old adage "It isn't what you make, it's what you save" could be modified to say "It isn't what you make, it's what things cost".  The economies of the US and Colombia are quite different so while your Colombian novia might be impressed with the dollar number you make, the reality of what it buys is quite another thing.

[Pete E]

... in response to How much do you make?, posted by Cali vet on Dec 17, 2002

The problem is it is hard for them to put it in prospective.
Even minimum wage here,$6.75 an hour is 3,300,000 pesos a month.That might be a doctors salary there.Here you can't even live on it unless you have several such ncomes per household.
So we are going to sound rich.Immagine a girl comes home with a guy who makes $30,000 a year,$2500 a month or 7,000,000 pesos.She thinks they will be wealthy Surprise,you can just barely make it.
I guess if a guy wanted to brag,a bad idea,it would be easy.
Actually I think when the relationship gets to the point of agreeing to marry its a probably a good idea to tell them.I told my wife.I said I bet your curious---,she said yes.She just sort of nodded OK ,no comment,to a low 6 figure income,huge by Colombia standards.Here it buys us a good but not wealthy lifestyle.I'm sure the average Colombian would be blown away how much we spend.Actually I am sometimes.Man,it cost that much just to afford our lifestyle?My wife did have to discover the well is not bottomless.Sometimes real estate income can have big gaps in it.
So I guess the 2 problems are unrealistic expectations about what the income will buy and attracting gold diggers.When I went to Colombia the first time my son tells me "dad,I don't think you should tell them anything about money."He was worried I would get a gold digger.
But when you have already agreed to marry I think its OK to tell them.Actually my wife agreed to marry me before she had any idea other than what my job was and that I had a pension also.I think there is a presumption not only do Americans have money but you must have money if you got here.
That would be a mistake with some guys I met,including one who never paid me some money I lent him,only untill he could get home to get his paycheck.But he did manage to get back down there again in a month.
Actually what I wonder about is how do Colombians get by?You go to the store and food is maybe 50-75% of here.Cosmetics,sundries,electronics more than here.Their rent is low and I guess they spend about nothing on things like taxes and insurance and cars.Also I think going to stores in the malls you don't see the lower prices that are possible for locals who know where to shop.Even with food they can do the beans and rice.I think thats how some of our immigrants manage to send so much money home.Many people per house and cheap food items.
Bottom line,don't tell them up front.Only after you are very sure of them,would be a good approach I think.

Pete

[Ted]

... in response to Re: How much do you make?, posted by Pete E on Dec 18, 2002

Doctor's salary???

I guess the doctors I know in Cali got a really good price on the BMW they are driving since they earn minimum wage.

Get real. I don't know where you get your info, but there are some people there that make good money. And no, it's not from running drugs.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: How much do you make?, posted by Ted on Dec 18, 2002

I've been told several times by people who should know doctors earn about $1000 a month.I'm sure this is not all of them,some could earn more.And,I will bet you it is the rare doctor,actually very rare Colombian with a BMW.I bet there are as many rich people as BMW's and they don't get it working for a salary,even as a doctor.If it isn't drugs it has probably been in the family a long time.
OK,when in doubt,ask wife,which I just did,imfo 5 miniutes old.My wife says it is hard for doctors to get a good job and many work for only 1,000,000 pesos a month.Thats about $360.
My wife worked for a lawyer as a legal assistant.She said she(the lawyer)made 800,000 pesos/month.Thats $285.The lawyers husband is a surgeon with many years experience,he is about 50.My wife says he makes about 2,000,000 pesos a month,thats $720.They were at our wedding and we have seen them on trips back to Colombia.No beemer here,and they are top professionals.A gringo on social security makes more than they do.Thats minimum wage here,not Colombia.There it is like $110 a month.
Perhaps an older BMW might be $15,000-$20,000,a car that would be worth 5,000 -10,000 here.Maybe some professionals   driving these.
New cars cost about 50%-100% more than what they do here.
So if you see a guy driving a new BMW you can just about bet he did not get it working for a salary at any job,doctor,lawyer or Indian Chief.Its most likely a rich daddy,there are a fair number of  rich Colombians.Second possibility,drug money.
Maybe your doctor buddy also has a rich daddy?Actually I think you just about have to have a rich daddy,or a pretty well to do one to get to be a doctor in Colombia.Its not very upwardly mobile.Except for drug money most money is old money.

Pete

[Patrick]

... in response to A Doctors with a BMW ? And a rich daddy?, posted by Pete E on Dec 19, 2002

A rheumatologist (sp?) to be specific.  He moved to Brazil to improve his lifestyle. Not only does he not have a BMW, he didn't have a car the last I heard.

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: How much do you make?, posted by Pete E on Dec 18, 2002

Pete

You describe what a US income looks like to a colombiana in the US now imagine what a US income, pension or whatever, would look like to a her (acustomed to living on about $140 in strata 2) here in Cali!!! Would there ever be an end to demands for material things she never had and for all the family members too? Nope I think I'll stick with our old time honored gringo custom.

Cali-vet

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to Re: How much do you make?, posted by Pete E on Dec 18, 2002

Most of the Colombians are living on debt.  Which is something you may want to ask before bring a lady back because you will get stuck paying it all off before she leaves.  In the Colombian stores, when you charge a card they always ask how many "cuotas (spelling ?)" you want.  This is how many installments.  So, you extend your payments for a single purchase for up to a year and start accumulating debt.  However, unlike the very high interest rate on US credit card debt, the interest rate charged in Colombia is 3%.  Also, in Colombia they have stratas which are official class zones, I think in Bogota they have 1 through 5, ranging from the lowest class to the highest class zone.  So, you can buy the same thing in a lower strata at a cheaper price then you can get it at a higher strata.  My novia took me to one of the medium stratas and you could buy things cheaply, for example, I bought a hand made leather wallet for $2 and I got a haircut for about $2.20.

[KnowledgeIsPwr]

... in response to Re: Re: How much do you make?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 18, 2002


VC,

Thanks for explaining the whole Stratas structure thingie.

I've been reading it, but didn't really know, or understand how it all worked.

KIP

[colman]

... in response to Re: Re: How much do you make?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 18, 2002

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[valuedcustomer]

... in response to How much do you make?, posted by Cali vet on Dec 17, 2002

[This message has been edited by valuedcustomer]

If you earn $350 a month in Bogota you are middle class.  A professional such as a lawyer may expect about $900 a month.  My novia asked me how much a secretary makes in the US.  I said a good legal secretary can make $60,000 a year.  She then said that is more than what the president of Colombia makes.  She was impressed that a secretary in the US can make more than the president of Colombia.  Of course, what is not being mentioned, is that the wealth disparity in Colombia is huge.  In other words, there are some fabulously rich people in Colombia.

[PaulC]

... in response to How much do you make?, posted by Cali vet on Dec 17, 2002

I don't like it when people ask me how much money I make or how much my things cost, etc.  I run into it here in the US, but people usually don't ask me directly how much money I make.  They ask how much did my house cost, how big is my house, etc.  Now, apart from that I'm generally okay with discussing what things have what value, for example - how to save on big-ticket items like real estate, cars, plane tickets, etc.

I haven't made a trip (yet) to Colombia or Peru to find a wife, but I did live in Central America about 14 years ago.  The campesinos (country people) often asked how much money you make, how much your clothes cost, etc.  With the campesinos, I could tolerate the questions a little better than with people in town who had more education, income, etc. and should have known better than to ask.  Because I lived there, I would just say that my pay is approximately equal to a schoolteacher in that country (it was).  That way, it sort of answered their question without being too specific, and it also put it in a context that they could understand (schoolteacher's aren't rich).  

I think if a Latina/potential wife asked me "How much do you make?", I might not answer it directly, but I wouldn't end the discussion, either.  Money is a huge issue for many couples even in the same culture, and that could be even more complicated for a cross-cultural couple where one is from relative affluence and the other from a more modest background.  I might say a few things: 1.)earnings are greater in the US, but so are expenses, 2.)most people in the US have comfortable but not lavish lives, 3.)we absolutely have to work together on money issues if we get married.

I remember one time I was dating a Mexican woman here in the US.  She had kids, and she was talking about money problems, and I asked her if she had a monthly budget, and her jaw dropped  - "No, but I should do that".  I said you should even write it down, and go over it with your kids.

I would also be a little concerned about going into specifics on money because at some point her family might ask you for some, with the rationale that you're making so much you're not going to miss it, and gosh, don't you care about your wife's family?

For guys that have gotten married to a Latina, has sending money back to the wife's family been a problem?  I recognize that might happen as there are fewer institutional programs like social security, etc.

[KnowledgeIsPwr]

... in response to Re: How much do you make?, posted by PaulC on Dec 17, 2002


Thanks for the re-post, and your insight.

KIP