No Crime! No problems!

[Calipro]

 I called my wife's house several times tonight and her mother said she wasn't home. So I called her on her cell phone. As it turns out she was out having a couple of drinks in avenida sexta with a couple of friends she made at Meyer (the english school I'm sending her to).
It sounded like she was having a good time and I only wish I was in Cali right now.

 She lives in between two very nice neighborhoods Jaunabu and Granda. She can walk to Avenida Sexta from her house. Also there are a lot of new restuarants and clubs opening up in her area. They're calling it the new zona rosa.

She didn't mention anything about crime and told me that she wished I was in Cali with her. December 19th sure seems like a long way off right now.

This will be the first time I have ever traveled to Cali for Chirstmas. I heard the Feria de Cali is great and I plan to party my ass off.

               Be there or be square,   Wayne

[burbuja2]

... in response to No Crime!  No problems!, posted by Calipro on Aug 31, 2002

Where will you be for Christmas?  I'm getting married in a church there on the 21st although the legally recognized marriage will be here a few weeks later.

[Calipro]

... in response to Yo, Pro, posted by burbuja2 on Aug 31, 2002


I'll be in Cali the 19th thru the 27th but Monday the 23rd of Dec. I will be taking my wife to the embassy in Bogota.

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: Yo, Pro, posted by Calipro on Aug 31, 2002

Up for a brew (or maybe 2)?  If so, I'll send you an e-mail with further details.

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Re: Yo, Pro, posted by burbuja2 on Aug 31, 2002

rowepro@att.net

[El Diablo]

... in response to No Crime!  No problems!, posted by Calipro on Aug 31, 2002

OK so you call your gal up who's out at a club near Sexta, she doesn't mention any crime and so by your logic that means NO CRIME, NO PROBLEMS!!  Am I to gather that if Cali did have problems your wife would have reported a shooting or two that she witnessed that night.  Come on you guys get real.   Being in a city or barrio with a high crime rate doesn't mean that every time you step out the door a bullet wizzes by.  A person can live in a dangerous place and have nothing happen over a lifetime.

The area your wife lives in is a nice area but it's not a good place to be walking around at night in especially for a woman.  There's prostitutes and transvestites only a few blocks away, also lots of commerce and car traffic on Sexta and the Avenues above it.  

I think Cali is a great place and no one should be overly fearful about traveling there.  However the longer you stay the greater your opportunity to be a victim of crime. I don't think it is verly likely but I think it is much more risky than a vacation in a comparable sized U.S. city.  Nothing has happened to Keith and some of the other expats and I am glad for that.  There experience is worth noting however it does not change my opinion that Cali is dangerous.

El Diablo

[El Diablo]

... in response to No Crime!  No problems!, posted by El Diablo on Aug 31, 2002

Hi Keith,

I don't think you and I are in disagreement.  I entered the little ruckus not to scare anyone away but because I heard some people who know better, not you, make statements that are in my opinion disengenious.  I think in their zeal to respond to Lex who may be looking to stir up problems, they overstated their position.  Basicly they said Cali was not any more dangerous than any other U.S. city.  OK if your city is Washington D.C. then I agree but the vast majority of U.S. cities are safer to travel to than Colombia.  

That's really my only point.  I'm not trying to stir up trouble on the board but I don't want to ever be on record as saying Cali is a safe city.  

El Diablo

[Traveller]

... in response to No Crime!  No problems!, posted by El Diablo on Aug 31, 2002

No, no. I didnt take your post that way at all. Sorry ,if you thought so.

[Traveller]

... in response to No Crime!  No problems!, posted by El Diablo on Aug 31, 2002

As far as Lex, I agree with him and his stats. Well, at the very least, I don't dispute them. And, I do think Cali is dangerous. A lot of the incidents that have happened here are sometimes caused because we have our "Gringo Flashers" on. Jim commented on that, right after he got his cell phone ripped off. Both of us drunk, both of us dressed like Gringos, 3 AM on Sexta, etc. We did all the rookie mistakes. (But Jim did whack that guy pretty good. LOL!)And sometimes, its just plain 'ol bad luck.  
No, what's got a bug up my butt is every few months someone new comes on the board and tries to explain to the guys that come down here on a regular basis that its too dangerous. They always cite the statisitcs that they find at various newspapers and studies. They say, "See, Colombia is dangerous." Fine and most of us would agree. Some of the numbers I have a hard time believing. I mean, didn't someone do the math on murder rates in Cali and it came up that half the city should be dead in one year if the numbers in the stat was correct?
But, like Lex pointed out, "The fact that it said the info may be outdated is true.....the crime rates could be slightly higher or lower by the time you read it......or more or less severe travel warnings could be issued....Some people seem to think that if a source is one year old that it doesnt apply anymore.....Yeah, in one year Colombia has totally changed and these stories are garbage now...."
I once again agree with this statement. But, following the same path of thinking and the information hasn't changed that much in numbers over the years, whether they be a little higher or lower, why then do we need to see it over and over again. I have been on this board on and off for about 3 years, some of you longer. We have seen this information over and over again.
I am also not dogging the guys who are new and just asking questions about whether or not it's safe to travel here. That is to be expected. Myself? The most dangerous part about coming to Cali was the airplane ride over from California. Planes have been known to fall out of the sky once in awhile and I always wanted to try and avoid that. I repeat my previous statement from another post. "Just give it a rest about how dangerous it is here." It's a personal choice of risk. Some people DON'T THINK IT'S that big a deal to come here. Some people THINK IT IS a big deal to come here.  Its just that someone asks, "Is it dangerous to go to Colombia?" The Veterans give personal accounts and give their opinions and the person asking goes, "Nuh huh, here is a newspaper article." Then the Vet ellaborates on his opinion as to why he thinks its safe. Then the person who asks the question says, "Nuh huh, here's some statistics." Then the Vet ellaborates and sites other guys stories and opinions about Colombia and still it's not good enough for the person asking the question. "Nuh huh, cause here are more statistics and more stories and this guy doesn't think its safe, yada, yada, yada." I mean, aren't the new guys finding the board coming here to ask questions and ask opinions of the "Veterans" who come here? They want to know more about Colombia from a first hand point of view and then when it is given it is disputed. I just don't understand it. I mean, if you're not going to take these people's opinions and stories into account, why ask the questions. Obviously, you have all your stats of how bad it is here and you have the Veterans opinions and stories, weigh both sides, weigh the risk and make up your own mind. There should be a formula.
The bottom line is no one is right and no one is wrong, its just up to the individual whether or not they want to come here, but to the guys who do come here (The Vets) that choice was made a long time ago and nothing in the stats can change that.
Geez, the typing class in high school really did pay Out...................................................
C-YA!.................................................

[HappyInBrazil]

... in response to Re: No Crime!  No problems!, posted by Traveller on Aug 31, 2002

I think the mission to "educate" has an underlying implication that people are too stupid to make up their own minds "correctly".  I think that's the mission of hammering away at the same point again and again, it allows for someone to hammer away at that implication.

My point about not considering advertisements a good source of information was that, first, they have an adjenda to support, second, information from the original source may not be explained fully and can more easily be taken out of context, third, it may be quoted incorrectly.  I'm sure there's more reasons why this is not a place to pull "facts".  If someone really needs convincing, I'm sure a stroll down the college bookstore aisle and a little browsing in a text about research would uncover them.

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: No Crime!  No problems!, posted by Traveller on Aug 31, 2002

Is it dangerous?

Yes! They will scalp you as soon as you get off the plane.

No, well, Ok, maybe a little, but it's all exageratted.

Yes, but only if you are act stupid.

No, that kind of stuff only happens to the campesinos.

Yes, and gringos make high profile targets.

Yes, but so is (fill in your city here).

Yes, statistics say blah blah blah

No, my friend says yadda yadda yadda

Yes, you are a fool to go.

No, you are a coward to stay home.

Yes, you're ignoring good evidence.

No, you're just paranoid.

------------------------
Find out all you can, about both the danger and the reward, then make up your own mind.

I've seen people that my GF thought were FARC that were interested in me, she got me out of there FAST (see my trip report). And I've heard machine gun fire in the background while talking to her on the telephone.

But I went anyway, I don't think that I'm a fool, and I came back alright. It was worth it for me.

Somebody else doesn't want to go? Well, I'm not going to call them a coward for that.

Somebody is thinking about going, but has legitimite concerns/questions? I'll be glad to tell them what little I know, and I'm sure most of the other veterns (most of whom know more than I do) will also be glad to advise/inform the newbies.

[HappyInBrazil]

... in response to Agree with your post, posted by Michael B on Aug 31, 2002

One excellent piece of advice you included was:

Listen to the locals.