Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!

[Calipro]

  I know some of you guys think the best marriage material are the women over twenty five but I'm going to marry an 18 year old and I'm 40. My last wife was 20 and I was 35 when we married and I never felt that age was a factor in out relationship. I was going to wait until I went down to Cali in December but she says she wants to get married now. I told her that I won't be ready for her to come to the US until January but she still wants to get married now. I won't be taking her to the embassy until I return in December. I don't know if that will cause some problems at the embassy or not.

So I'll be in Cali Aug. 15 and I leave Aug. 20th in the morning. I will be staying at my finacees house so I'll give you guys that are going to be down there my Cel. number (310) 409-5577 if you are calling from a cel phone or (03310) 409-5577 if you are calling from a land line.

After we are married my wife will offically become a ringer at Latin Encounters because she is still on their web site. We'll see how long it takes them to take her picture off.

                                      Wayne

[Rick Johnson]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

Calipro: First of all, congratulations! Age, Smage! An age difference of 30-40 years is ok in these relationships. Women need men who are experienced and can guide them along the way. This is true here or there it doesn't really matter. An 18 year old would make me pause because of the many changes they go through until age 23-24 but you never know. At age 23 or so they're ready for someone 20-40 years older. The divorce rate would be much lower if this were the norm. Just remember that the way you treat her will be with her for the rest of her life. Treat her well and you'll do ok.

Rick

[Kit]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

First of all dont let your bad experiences deter you from being able to move forward with your life. Learn from them and act accordingly in the future. Secondly I never get to realize why people tend to believe that if she is young and beautiful she is definitely bad tempered and a bad wife in a long term. Patrick has indicated on numerous occasions that one needs to downsize his expectations in order to get a better character. If she has a beauty she does not have a good attitude and vice versa if she is not that beautiful she will be a better wife material for you. Statistics are believed to attest for that. But remember that you are no statistics. Not yet at least. You have to live with that person, go shopping together, go to movies, dine out, wash your car and sleep together. If you don’t quite like her from the beginning, why tie a knot based on some statistical extrapolations. You will be setting yourself for imminent fiasco. Find someone you like, see if you two mesh together well and then go for it. 18 or 65 doesn’t matter really. The only thing to keep in mind is that you have to come to little head unbiased conclusions. That can be challenging. But if you can do that you are setting yourself up for a long and rewarding relationship.

[Nico]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

One worry that I've had about finding an 18 yr old wife is entertainment. The Colombians are a music and dancing culture. At 18 you won't be able to take her to any clubs.I guess you'd have to find alternative entertainment. Upon turning 21 she may be hungry for dancing and/or music.So I guess you'd have to be willing to accomodate that then. Does anyone have any experience in this matter?

[Kit]

... in response to Your young wife and entertainment, posted by Nico on Aug 11, 2002

I was thinking about that recently. I think the best way to go about that dancing/music hunger quench is to enroll in some kind of salsa dance classes together with her. I visited a couple of lessons myself the other day and liked it. It is also a good way to stay in shape!

[Nico]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

Just wanted to share my experience regarding dating younger women. When I went to Cali I was dating an attractive
women around my age (early-mid 30's) Then I started seeing all these 40 and 50 something year old men with these young,pretty say mid 20somethings. It just shocked me. My American eyes just aren't accustomed to seeing that.I started thinking, gees maybe I should be going after 18-19 yr olds.The whole scene can play tricks on your head.

[Pete E]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

Read Calibounds discussion with Margareth of Latin Encounters.She asked"how long do you want it to last?"sounds like your going for the short term more than the long haul but I understand how tempting it can be.
Good luck,you will need it.I'm sure it will be interesting.

Pete

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Pete E on Aug 10, 2002


  I never got to a chance to meet with Margareth when I was at Latin Encounters so I never got the benefit of any of her advice.

 As far as going for the short term rather than the long term, I don't think thats were I'm at. But I will admit deep down inside my expectations are probably lower than the average guys when it comes to a successful relationship.

 The only thing I'm sure of is at this point in the relationship is that we both make each other happy. I'm not sure what else I would know even if she was 30 because we have only known each other about two months.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002

I would probably go for it in your position also.You have a pretty young girl who seems to love you so all other considerations are second place to that.You are fighting the numbers but it can work.Actually there is about a year less age difference between you and your novia than me and my wife,but we are 18 years older.People say what will she think when you get older?I don't think thats as much of an issue as her having second thoughts as she matures just a little more.I think if you can stay together 5 years you got a good shot at the long haul.I also think young girls are more likely to be trouble but it is not neccesarily so.
I married quickly myself.I used the analogy of crawling across the desert,getting to the oasis with a big water fall  and having people tell you it would be a good idea to  wait to take a drink.
Yes go for it.Good luck!

Pete

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hoping to prove Patrick wron..., posted by Pete E on Aug 11, 2002

Life is a risk.I can think of no better reason to take one than a beautifull young girl.

Pete

[El Diablo]

... in response to Hoping to prove Patrick wrong!, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002


There are generally two ways people get married when in Colombia, by the church or a civil ceremony performed by a notary.  Each has it own set of requirements for a foreigner and if you haven't checked into it, I'd recommend doing so.   I'm getting married civily in December to get the ball rolling with the Spousal Visa however in January, my then wife and I will have a wedding at a Catholic church in Cali.  After the civil ceremony, the wedding will be registered so it won't be necessary to register it again.  Sounds complicated, a little bit, but the experience has allowed me to understand the requirements to getting married by both.

My 1st observation is that getting married civily is more complicated.  The requirements for the marriage will come directly from the public notary you deal with.  In Cali there are 21 distinct  public notary offices and while Colombian law establishes the guidelines that the notaries use, each notary may add or subtract to it slightly.  So my recommendation to anyone getting married civily is to have their fiancee choose a notary early on and get their specific requirements.  

Most notaries will require among other things that the foreigner have a marriage VISA, obtained at the nearest Colombian Consulate to where you live in the United States. This is in response to a relatively new Colombian law that prohibits a foreigner from entering into a contract as a tourist.  Anyway, I started the process of getting the marriage VISA a few months ago.  I called the San Fransisco Colombian consulate and they gave me a list of 5 or 6 things they wanted to see before issuing a VISA for me.  This turned out to be a big pain but I presented all my documents (passport, police records, proof of never being married, invitation letter from my fiancee, copy of her Cedula, letter translated into Spanish indicating my intention to marry in Colombia) and it was necessary to have them notarized and if the document originates in the United States appostilled by the Secretary of State.  Oh btw, since I did not have a police record, the county Sherrif's office had to write a letter indicating such.  This needed to be translated of course. I heard of one guy going back to the S.F. consulate 3 times before getting everything right, so I was pretty careful and when I went to the consulate last month they issued my VISA first time.  My VISA is good for 6 months.  

Getting the marriage VISA however was just the first document on the list that my public notary in Cali is requiring.  There are other things like birth certificates etc. that the notary will want to see also

As an aside Wayne, my notary in Cali will only perform the CIVIL ceremony after a 5 business day wait period from the time he receives all the documentation.  Since you're only going to be in Cali for 5 days, you might want to check if your fiancee's notary has a similar requirement.

As for the requirements of getting married to a foreigner in the Catholic church, they seem to be less cumbersome then going the notary route.  When I was in Cali last month, my fiancee and I went to the diocesan offices in El Centro.  They gave us a list of things and we're putting those things together also.  There was no mention of a marriage VISA which I thought that was interesting.  The normal procedure after getting married by the church is to then have your marriage registered civily, you take the church provided document and take it to a public notary so that the marriage is registered.  It's possible that the notary would at this point want to see the Marriage VISA but my fiance who is a lawyer doesn't believe so.  Again this is something a person should check out with their notary 1st.

El Diablo

[jim c]

... in response to Requirements for getting married, posted by El Diablo on Aug 10, 2002

Welcome back Devil. Congrats on your upcoming marriage. I am still looking for a woman with all the attributes of Amanda, without the temper and maleducada child. wish me luck JIM C

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Requirements for getting married, posted by jim c on Aug 10, 2002

Thanks Jim....It's been a long difficult journey but the wait was well worth it when I consider how lucky I am today.  Wow....to think I've been going to Colombia since December 98 and Cali since 99.  Good luck finding your gal, I have a good feeling she's waiting for you in Cali.

El Diablo

[Calipro]

... in response to Requirements for getting married, posted by El Diablo on Aug 10, 2002

I am using a lawyer in Cali. Her name is Deyanira Llanos Munoz. She is charging me $800 to get married if I do not have a marriage visa or $650 if I do have a marriage visa. I going down on a tourist visa so I'll be paying the $800 fee.
According to her the requirements for me to marry in Cali are as follows:
Birth Certificate, original, translated to spaninsh by an offical translator.
Devorce Decree, translated
Two copies of my passport, authenticated by an American notary.

My requirements to get a Immigrant Visa at the Embassy are as follows:

Two Birth Certificates, original,in english
Devorce Decree, translated to spanish
One copy of my passport, authenticated by an American notary.
One affidavit of support(form I-864)that must be signed by a notary public in the USA.
Tax returns for the last three years including W-2's.
A letter of employment explaining the amount of my salary, the time I've been working and my title.
Also at least 6 months of bank statements.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Requirements for getting married, posted by Calipro on Aug 10, 2002


From what I can tell a lawyer doesn't add a lot of value to getting married.  The notary or the Catholic church set the requirements and they appear to be more than happy to provide an exact list on paper of what they want to see.  All the leg work, like gathering the documents and having them notarized must by done by yourself and your spouse anyway.  A lawyer's job in a simple procedure such as a civil marriage is little more than a middle man, getting the requirements from the notary and then passing them on to you.  

A lawyer may add value if he or she has a relationship with a notary and out of that relationship, certain things that are required by law are overlooked. Maybe this is the case with the marriage Visa.

As for costs, the $800 may be worth it,  if just to avoid the hassle of getting the marriage VISA from the Colombian consulate in the United States.  I wouldn't pay $650 however for a lawyer's help to get married in Colombia if I am traveling to Colombia on a marriage VISA.  The lawyer adds very little value, just passing the notary requirements on to you that your fiancee could have obtained easily herself.  BTW, the fee that the Notary himself charges for the marriage is small, I think it was about $60 US when I looked at their fee schedule posted on the wall.  In any event, the 650 probably covers this, the time spent explaining the necessary documents and the couple of hours at the notary office.  I'm not cheap, but I wonder if a gringo tax is involved here.  

El Diablo