New restrictions against Cuba

[Hamlet]

All,

Jimmy Carter is a true statesman, and his visit to Cuba and the views he expressed openly may eventually pave the way to a dissolution of the enmity across the Florida Strait (e.g. the US should drop its blocade and Cuba should grant freedom of association, speech and free elections).

Meanwhile, President Bush will announce on Monday new, tough restrictions against Cuba and Americans traveling there.  This sort of policy is so wrong it tears me up inside.  

I promised my novia I would return to meet her father and aunts before she leaves, as I did not have the chance to meet them earlier.  I intend to keep that promise, even if it means that I must go to jail.

Hamlet

[robbysanjuan]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

GOOD LUCK IN THAT JAIL, YOU'LL BE  THERE FOR A WHILE AND THERE IS NO U.S. EMABASSY TO GET YOU OUT. BUT, HEY ALL THOSE AMERICAN DOLARS YOU SPENT THERE HELPED BUILD THE JAIL, FINANCE WEAPONS, BIOTERRORISM PLOTS, AND FINANCE MEANS TO OPRESS THE CUBAN PEOPLE. THAT MONEY GOES TO FIDEL, NOT THE PEOPLE. THAT IS WHY THERE IS A TRAVEL BAN AND FINANCIAL RESTICTIONS IN PLACE. TELL THOSE PEOPLE IN JAIL, HOW BAD AMERICA IS AND THE "SCREWED UP" FOREIGN POLICY WE HAVE. I REALLY SUGGEST YOU GO TALK TO SOME CUBAN-AMERICANS BEFORE MAKING SUCH COMMENTS. WELL, YOU WOULD HAVE TO, IN CUBA, THEY PUT PEOPLE IN JAIL FOR THAT. MY UNCLE WENT TO PERU, THEN SPAIN AND FINALLY HERE TO THE U.S.A. IT TOOK HIM THREE YEARS TO GET HERE. DID I MENTION HOW CASTROS' GOONS BEAT HIM AND MY THEN 15 YEARS OLD COUSIN IN FRONT OF THE FAMILY ON THE WAY TO THE PLANE? THEY COULD HAVE USED YOUR LAW SKILLS TO SUE CASTRO AND HIS POLICE. I AM SURE YOU COULD HAVE PRESENTED THAT CASE WELL AND GOT HIM SOME MONEY, HELL EVEN HIS HOUSE, LAND, AND OTHER ASSESTS SEIZED BY THAT BASTARD. DO YOU EVER ASK YOURSELF, "OUT OF THE WHOLE WORLD, WHY ARE PEOPLE DYING TO GET INTO THE U.S.A."? AS A AMERICAN, A HISPANIC, AND A LOVER OF DEMOCRACY, YOUR COMMENTS NEED TO BE SERIOUSLY REVISED BEFORE YOU ENTER SUCH A DECORUM. GENTLEMEN, THIS IS NOT TO BE ARGUMENTIVE, ONLY TO SHOW THAT ARROGANCE OF "I CAN GO AND DO WHAT I WANT AND SPEND MONEY AS I PLEASE", IN THE END, FALLS IN TO THE HANDS OF A MURDERER. ALSO, THIS ISSUE RUNS DEEPER AND HAS TOUCHED MY LIFE AND MANY OTHERS DEEPER THAN TO BRING A NOVIA INTO THE WELCOMING ARMS OF UNCLE SAM. DON'T FORGET THE PEOPLE IN JAIL, STILL SUFFERING, OR THE ONES WHO TREID AND NEVER MADE IT......CUBA.....UN DIA SERAS LIBRE!

[Hamlet]

... in response to Re: New restrictions against Cuba, posted by robbysanjuan on May 20, 2002

You insist on stating there is a travel ban to Cuba, but this is false.  It is not a violation of any US law to travel to Cuba.  There is a Treasury Department regulation banning Americans from spending money in Cuba with exceptions: one can send money to Cubans, one can travel to Cuba and spend money there if the trip is for culture, educational, or other study.  There are companies that have permission to take Americans on "culture" tours who probably don't care what you do after you get to the island.  Also, as it is legal to wire money to Cubans one could wire money to a Cuban who could host the American visitor once he arrives so that he will not break any law.

Also, I never did state that I intended to violate this Treasury regulation, but that the US government would surely THINK that I had violated it if I went there and would try to fine me.  In fact, I have heard that the presumption of innocence is thrown out the window by the Treasury Department which attempts to fine anyone it learns has gone to Cuba.

My suggestion that I was willing to go to jail for my fiance was poetic license and meant as an expression of my romanticism, but I think you have a great deal of anger at the Cuban government and are not willing or able to understand my love for this woman.  I am truly sorry for your family's difficulties.  I hope you can accept my sympathies and I can have your support to marry the woman of my choice.

Hamlet

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: New restrictions against Cuba, posted by robbysanjuan on May 20, 2002

You have articulated the argument for a continuation of the travel embargo very well.  There will always be those, however, that place self interests over national interests.  I think they're called criminals.

[Cali vet]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Fidel Castro has been an astute statesman and great leader of the Cuban people despite over fourty years of embargo by the richest nation in the world ninety miles to the north. How easy it is to forget the likes of Meyer Lansky and his puppet Batista. Where would the people of Cuba be today with those two at the helm? The popular irrational fear of Castro is based on the equally irrational fear of communist ideology, aspects of which are all around us: HMOs, unions, socialized medicine in Canada and the UK and the strata system of utility charges in Colombia. I almost went to Cuba a year ago to attend a conference. It wasn't the US govt. that held me back it was my employer who pulled the plug on foreign travel at the last minute. I had checked with all the apropriate govt. branches in advance to apply for a licence to visit Cuba but was told that was unnecessary, that all I needed was to bring back some brochures from the events I attended to show when I passed through customs. I could have my passport stamped in Cuba with no problem. Too bad it fell through. I'll probobly go someday. There are nice vacation packages departing from Colombia.

[Pete E]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Yes Jimmy is an idealist who is right on this issue although he was a very ineffective president.I think he did a service to Cuba and the US with this trip.
I voted for Bush(a no brainer with Gore the other choice)but he does disapoint me on alot of issues,including this one.It seems pure politics,like the billions in farm aid he is backing.
Opening up Cuba more will change them faster than anything,and I think there is about zero chance of kicking out Castro.The hard line is getting nothing but some political support.ITS HELPING CASTRO,NOT HURTING HIM,BUT HURTING THE CUBAN PEOPLE.
I thought John McCain was a much better choice for president.Here was a guy not afraid to take an unpopular and politically damaging  possition if he thinks its right,but Bush started off with such a lead because of name recognition and connections that John couldn't quite catch him in the primary.Bush was considered the winner from the day he anounced and everybody wanted to jump on the winners bandwagon.That kind of pi---d me off,who is the guy who has the nomination locked up and we don't even know who he is yet?I don't consider him the village idiot like some people but original thought is not one of his big points.We probably have him for 6 more years.I'm sure I would take him over whoever the democrats would put up in 2004.
Hmm,McCain a democrat?He could win.I think in the general election he could beat any other person(as a major party candidate).Nomination is the problem.I don't think he will switch parties or the democrats would have him.Seems parties don't like really honest politicians who won't tow the party line.
Hmm,McCain an independent?Probably would get someone really bad like Hilary elected.But we have 2 more years to see how things play out.

Pete

[TexasRob]

... in response to Re: Jimmy is a good guy,was a bad presid..., posted by Pete E on May 18, 2002

Excellent Post!

[Edge]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Georgie is just helping out his brother so he can get re-elected.  New, tough restrictions are going to do exactly what??  Make Castro roll over?? I doubt it.  It is a show.

Good luck with the novia.  Keep perservering and good things will happen.

Edge

[briloop3]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

I am sure that you are aware that if you get caught with having gone to Cuba without a license you will be subject to a fine.  I read somewhere that the average fine for a first time offender is $7,500.  

Also, I read last week that the Bush administration is stepping up enforcement of laws that punish people for going to Cuba.

[Cali vet]

... in response to New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Hamlet on May 18, 2002

Hamlet, very well said and I agree completely. The whole restrictions/embargo policy is nothing more than an utterly stupid and childish vendetta against one individual and should have been abolished long ago. I'm sure even with added restrictions that you can make your way there. Canada and Mexico are the usual departure points points but I spoke to an American once when I was in Jamaica who said he hopped over to Cuba from there all the time on a small island airline with the US non the wiser. Best of luck to you.

Cali-vet

[mck]

... in response to Re: New restrictions against Cuba, posted by Cali vet on May 18, 2002

The embargo is a joke. I read not one American has ever gottten caught with the travel embargo accept for one guy who sold the cubans a couple million dollars worth of water purifiers or something like that. I can get direct flight to Cuba right from Windsor Ontario, which is a half hour from my house in Michigan for like $400-$500. Right now it is $500. I know tons of people that have done it. You just drive across the border, tell canadian immigration your going to the airport. Park your car at the airport, hop on the plane and away you go. It's a piece of cake. As long as you tell immigration in Cuba not to stamp your passport, you got it made and if they do for some reason stamp your passport, when you drive across the border use your drivers license as identification and throw out your passport before you cross the border. When you get home, just say you lost your passport and get a new one. Cuba is a popular vacation spot for Canadians and Americans that live along the border of Canada because it is so cheap. You can get package vacation deals with airfare included for a week for like $700.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: New restrictions against Cuba, posted by mck on May 18, 2002

I read a story recently of a lady who was a writer.Because of her writings the government was aware of her and met her at the airport in Canada on her return.$7500 fine.This legislation is on the books,they could step up enforcement big time,and that may be Bush's next move.Don't underestimate this.

Pete

[Cali vet]

... in response to People have been fined, posted by Pete E on May 18, 2002

I hope you aren't saying that US customs met and fined her at a Canadian airport. That would be quite a strech.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: People have been fined, posted by Cali vet on May 18, 2002

I believe they met her at the airport,but I guess could really do nothing untill she returned to the US.I guess they could tell her she was in violation,then follow up later.I'm not sure.Maybe they met her when she returned to the US but I thought they said Canada.

Pete

[Hamlet]

... in response to People have been fined, posted by Pete E on May 18, 2002

Pete,

For those who don't know (not you, Pete) there is no restriction against travel to Cuba.  However, there is reportedly a Treasury Department regulation against spending money there.

So if the government was to attempt to levy a fine against me you can bet I would refuse to pay the fine.  Then what?  The Treasury Department would then have to decide that this case is serious enough that they should refer it to the Justice Department for prosecution.  

The Justice Department, whose attorneys are prosecuting terrorists and other really bad guys, would have to assign an overloaded US Attorney to the case.  His/her first challenge would be obtaining proof that I spent money in Cuba.  He couldn't get any such proof from me, as I would rely on my 5th Amendment rights and refuse to say anything and refuse to produce any paperwork, receipts, etc.  So how on earth would he prove it?  Since the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" the attorney couldn't expect the court to simply assume that I spent money there, because I have (legally) wired money to my novia and it is possible that she could use that money to pay for my expenses when I arrive.  Of course, none of this is to mention the violation of my human rights by my government threatening to jail me for traveling to another country.  The US claims that Cuba violates the human rights of its citizens by refusing to allow them to travel abroad, while the US does exactly the same thing.

But suppose that the Treasury Department did decide to refer the case to Justice for prosecution, and suppose Justice did decide to waste their valuable resources prosecuting this minor case of dubious Constitutionality, and suppose they did actually convince a jury that I am guilty of spending money in Cuba.  I would refuse to pay the fine.

What would they do then, Pete?  Do you think they would put me in jail.  Ha!  That would be the dumbest thing they could ever do.  Because if they did that I WOULD BE A POLITICAL PRISONER.  My picture and story would run in every paper in the world, and as soon as I got out of jail I would go on the Larry King show and make the Administration that put me in jail look like the biggest morons that ever ran a government.  I can imagine the headlines now: "Government Jails Man for Falling in Love with Cuban Woman."

Those of you who don't know me might think I am full of bluff.  But those of you who do know me know that I never, ever back down to a bully and no one will make me give up my novia.

Hamlet