Non catholic christians

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: I guess I am still a little pid at a..., posted by Craig on May 6, 2002

Craig,
First you are right about if you go looking for a Colombiana most of them will be Catholics.I was pleased to find one who was not.I think it would be difficult for a true practicing Catholic to be married to someone who is not.The philosophy of the church is,or I should say was when I was a kid,that if you were not a catholic the best you could hope for was a place called Limbo.Of course if you were a normal human you were going to hell,because you couldn't be forgiven for what sins you would certainly commit unless you accepted Catholic dogma.So a wife who thought I was going to hell would be a hard situation to live with.Actually that was the only question I asked my wife about her church,would she think I was a sinner headed for hell if I didn't believe as she did.Her answer was every person has to have their own relationship with god and it was not up to her to judge.
Actually when I started my search I presumed the girl would be catholic and I just wanted to find one who was not dogmatic about it.Actually I think that would be easy.There may be many devout Colombian Catholics as you say but I have not met one.The whole culture seems pretty laid back and accepting.
For guys who are very serious about their religion I think you can find whatever you want in a Colombiana,they run the gammet.My friend E D jokes that he has been told that he is not finding the woman he wants because he is looking for a combination of Madonna and mother Teresa.If your serious E D better forget the Madonna types.I know,its fun to look.
As far as past injustices I must agree with you.People who complain about the current state of affairs lack a good understanding of history.The further you go back in history the more injustice you will find.Human rights is afairly new idea.There was precious little in the past.
So,about things like the inquisition it is particularly troubling to me that it was done in the name of god and people were tortured for their beliefs.I know the church has grown greatly in consciousness since then and wouldn't do anything like that now.It does bother me that they have never seemed to come clean about it.
But to more current issues,like the popes statement they never taught that hell was a literal place.First its good that they now accept this,its bad that they won't admit their teachings from the very recent past.
Even though the church is a very slow to change organization I believe they will change.Its just very slow when those in charge have been steeped in the old ways for so long.
I predict a church that will survive.Women priests in about 50 years.(just a 100 years or so behind).Probably priests alowed to marry,this could take a while,there would be a salary issue problem.Maybe that is the main problem.Divorce,50-200 years out.Abortion never but perhaps a more enlightened policy on birth control.Immagine the poor non catholic guy who wants to marry a catholic girl and he has to go to these marriage counseling sessions with a guy who has never been married and he gets the catholic position on birth control.What???You got to be kidding!!!One friend was in this position and he told the priest what he thought of his ideas.The priest wouldn't marry them but they were able to find one who would.The girls family wanted her to marry in the church,they found a way,but that was basically his last contact with them.My brother in law was in the same situation.He is not a big fan of the church I will tell you.
On the other side there is the Catholic position that it is unreasonable refusal of the marriage rights is a sin.This seems like a guy oriented sort of idea.Bill Cosby did a routine on this.He said if his wife gave him a problem he would turn her in to the priest who would say "YOU GOT TO DO IT!
And the whole issue of power and corruption,particularly in Latin America where power and corruption is so ingrained in everything.This to shall change.Sloooowly,very slooowly.With all the other problems of latin America that will eventually be resolved.
I also predict a new connection between science and religion.The truth should never be held down by old beliefs.There is nothing wrong with the truth.I think we will see more evedence of our spiritual nature in science.Of course the cumbersome Catholic Church will be very slow to recognise this,but no more scientist burned at the stake.
So I guess my main issue with the church is their secrecy,beauracracy,slowness to change even in the face of obvious error and having and old cumbersome set of rules and beliefs,developed over many years within this higharchy of old guys.My bull---t meter just goes off with so much they do.And as you have seen I do have alot of old issues with them.
Actually I know I have been brash and insulting and I appologise to all devout catholics here.I think the church can be a good one for many people.Its your choice.
And Latin america can be an excellent place for a guy who does want to find a catholic girl.
Did we about wear this one out?Actually I like politics better.

Pete

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: sorry I was insulting, posted by Pete E on May 6, 2002

Pete,

It wasn't Madonna and Mother Teresa but rather Shakira and Mother Teresa.  (-:

EL Diablo

[Pete E]

... in response to sorry I was insulting, posted by El Diablo on May 7, 2002

E D,
I was wondering if you were following this thread.It has actually been good for me to vent some old grievances and maybe let them go.Hope I didn't offend you.
Yeah,Shakira is ALOT hotter than Madonna,plus a much better singer.And maybe Mother Teresa would be a little extreme.Maybe there is somebody in between you are missing while you are intertaining those 22 year olds(or was it 25?)
Anything happening with miss thunder?Sending any more lightening bolts your way?
See you in a couple of weeks.

Pete

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: sorry I was insulting, posted by Pete E on May 7, 2002


Hey Pete,

No, not offended in the least.  

Well your right about something in between being more realistic and yes Miss Thunder better fits that  description.  In fact she's now my fourth Calena novia but between you and I, I think the last and definitely the best.  I've been at this game long enough and my new novia is everything I could want in a wife so.......

El Diablo

[Pete E]

... in response to sorry I was insulting, posted by El Diablo on May 7, 2002

E D,
She is everything you are looking for in a wife,so???
Does that mean she is really the one and it is mutual?Are you going to stay on your carefull path or go for it?
Actually you are the one guy I would not question if he just went for it.I think you have real good radar and judgement.
Hmm,another new colombiana to joins Rocio's shopping and social club?
For you guys who don't know  my wife Rocio is the den mother of the San Jose Colombianas,and also the taxi because she is the only one with a drivers licence.One of my friends Colombiana wife came home with a new Macy's card Rocio showed her how to get,I don't think he was thrilled about it.
So fill us in,or at least fill me in ED-JH.

Pete

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re:  so???Hmm., posted by Pete E on May 7, 2002


Pete,

Well I'm LEANING toward throwing caution to the wind.

I'm going to extend my time here and get to know Miss Thunder a bit better but truthfully I think she may be the one.   She seems to be as crazy for me as I am for her which in itself is somewhat hard to believe but something for which I'm grateful for.  

She's a really good person, very transparent and a woman with class.  She always seems to be happy and she can talk for hours so she'll fit in well with the San Jose wives if the time comes. (However she'll be very dissapointed that no one dances at our parties.)  She's a bit on the young side as she turns 25 this September but she does have a 3 year old which may explain why she seems more mature than others I have met.  She comes from a middle class family, they live in a barrio in the south called Ciudad 2000 which is close to Ilgenio (sp).  The family are nice people, hard working and simple.  My novia is smart, she graduated from Baje (sp?) University and is a partner in a small law firm.    She's Catholic and didn't even bat an eye when I told her about some of my more difficult Catholic beliefs.

For such a short time things are pretty serious but we'll just have to wait and see where things lead us.   I think I'm ready to take the leap with this one so cross your fingers and wish me the best......

El Diablo

[Canadian]

... in response to Re: Re:  so???Hmm., posted by El Diablo on May 8, 2002

 

[El Diablo]

... in response to Do you see potential problems with the c..., posted by Canadian on May 9, 2002

No, he lives in Italy.

[Canadian]

... in response to Do you see potential problems with the c..., posted by El Diablo on May 9, 2002

 

[Craig]

... in response to Re: sorry I was insulting, posted by Pete E on May 6, 2002

I may not agree with everything you say but I do respect your right to say it, and to disagree. Some of your points are well taken, and I understand why you feel the way you do based on your past experiences. You seem well educated and can see another's view point even if you disagree. Me on the other hand have had mostly good experiences with the Catholic church. I don't get caught up with the dogma as you say, mainly because I go to church to worship, and to feed my faith. No other reason. It's a personal experience and I don't always follow the rules. When I say Colombians follow the Catholic church I see these examples. Colombian's and Latinos in general tend to pray more to Saints then other groups. They are a big part of their life and culture. Most Colombian women I know don't consider it a marriage until after the Catholic church wedding. So the civil part is just for the State's sake. Which may mean no sex? I know that many Catholic's both American and Colombian never see the inside of a church, but don't be fooled in thinking especially in Colombia that's it makes no difference to them, it's completely meshed into their thought process. Nice exchange with you

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: sorry I was insulting, posted by Craig on May 6, 2002

Craig,
Colombians do seem more spiritual or religious in a different way.It may not always be formal religion but god or spirit does seem closer to them.I think it comes with a basic and sometimes difficult life.There is an attitude of god will help us.
I haven't met Colombians that seemed to be devout catholics but maybe some were and it just wasn't apparent in the situation I met them in.I do definetly believe they exist and probably ion large numbers.And it does seem more part of their life,the holidays,the traditions.There also seems to be a little vo do or some sort of semi evil or black magic.The guys that go down the street dreesed as devils banging drums and passing a cup for handouts.I have also heards stories of people saying they put spells on people or somehow trying to control them with this.I think this sort of thing is believed by a fair number of the population.
My wifes church is really rather refreshing.It seems like all their friends belong to the church.They never preach or prothletize but will try to explain if you ask.It is a good hearted and natural sort of comraderie.I never felt uncomfortable with it.One of my brother in laws friends who spoke good english stayed several more days on his visit from another town.He was told there was this person he should help and thought it was me.They are very interested in me.In the prophisies I have had last trip the was said about me being an important person to the church.Me?This sort of non religious gringo?Of course I wonder if there is a basic line to the prophisies where all people are told something like this.Two of their ministers have come to meet me several times but they never preach,they just seem interested in me.We don't even talk about the church much.Really nice guys.
So I am gently encouraged to read the Bible.Hum,who knows what could happen here.Nothing is happening very fast because I am not really getting with the program.
I'm glad you are getting what you want from your church.
again I appologise for venting at the expense of some sincere people.
Oh,sex before marriage.Its not as quick and easy as here for most girls,especially the more traditional.Many women do have children out of wedlock but usually it is with a guy they dated for years,not a quicky thing at all.Of course there are exceptions,the pros and semi pro party girl types.For all of there sensuality and femininity alot of them are pretty sexually inexperienced.

Pete

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Non catholic christians, posted by Craig on May 5, 2002

I'm not saying that Catholicism is inferior as a religion to protestant, or evangelical, or bhuddism, for that matter...

What I AM saying is that if you have  religion that you folow devoutly, and your wife has one also, and they are not the same... then there could be serious problems.

Especially if her whole family is that religion and they expect to see their grandkids raised that way...

That's all... SO, let's not get carried away with "My religion is better than your religion" rhetoric... It can lead us to say foolish things... (i.e. I don't remember reading in the Bible anywhere that Jesus founded a church. He disrupted one that I recall, and he preached in one -- but that was a Jewish Synagogue, not a Catholic church...)

I really don't want to get into a theological war on here. I have strong beliefs, and am happy to have a theological debate -- I just don't think this is the forum.

I really don't THINK that Pete meant offense to the Catholic religion any more than Ken meant it when he spoke of how happy he was that his fiance was Evangelical...

So... let's leave the Holy Wars to the middle east... shall we?

[Craig]

... in response to It's not that one religion is inferior t..., posted by MarkInTx on May 5, 2002

Mark I'm not trying to bust your horns here but, if you read this board enough you will read post's on every subject in the world. Many of them have no substance, and really only intrest the one it is directed to. So I post something that's takes a little thinking, and very important if you plan on marrying a Colombian and it's off topic? Please folks don't fool yourself reguardless of your faith, ask any man married to a Colombian who is Catholic , and ask him how important her Catholic faith is to her. Also if you have kids what religion do you think they will be raised as? You can bet Catholic. Don't take my word for it research

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: It's not that one religion is inferi..., posted by Craig on May 5, 2002

Craig,

You're not busting *my* horns...

That's why my next trip isn't to Colombia....

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Non catholic christians, posted by Craig on May 5, 2002

Founded by Christ? I thought it was St. Peter who founded the Catholic Church and considerably after Jesus' death. But I do agree with you that putting down one church in preference to another is an excecise in futility.

I think what Pete was referring to is that many Latin-Americans go to church and perform the rites of Catholocism but but don't necessarily read the bible or are aware of its contents outside of what the priests tell them. I have many Mexicans working for me who are regular mass attending Catholics, but when you mention a bible based topic, they have no idea what you're talking about. My Plant Manager, who is a very studied Catholic, will have to explain basic biblical events or people. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily find this offensive, and feel any spiritual guidance in their lives is better than the alternative.

I'd like to point out about some of the non-Catholic Christian sects in Latin America. Many of these are very strict when it comes to gifts, parties, tithing, attire, inter-denominational marriage, etc etc. I know a number of devotees to some of these religions, and would caution men if interested in a member of one of these churches to be sure you agree with the precepts of the church and discuss in intimate detail with your potential novia what she can, cannot, and is expected to do religiously, in a marriage, with children, and with your income. You may also be expected to convert to that religion.

None of this is intended as a slam to any religion. It's just that I believe you need to be in agreement with your future wife's religious beliefs. If she's a devout fill-in-the-blank and you have the attitude about the bible is like Pete's, your marriage may be headed down a rocky road.

Just my 2 cents worth.

-- Jeff S.