Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?

[Larry in Dallas]

Hello everyone:

 I have been happily married to a wonderful Colombian woman for seven months and love her very much.  This is not the dilemma.  Let me elaborate.....

  I visited my wife over a year on three different occasions and took my time getting my priorities straight and narrow, but I influenced my best friend, (anonymous), to go to Cali after I was blessed by God with my emerald jewel.
  Anyways, anonymous went down to Colombia after a painful break-up with a Venezuelan lady who did not love him but cared for him as a friend.  anyways, he mets a 20 years old girl and he is 38 years old and marries her after a month.  She comes back with him and has been a backstabbing, manipulative, little demon.  
  She lied about the supposedly poor health of her mother as an excuse to return for a nice two week vacation during Christmas which turned into about 6 weeks.  Almost daily she would tell him that she would return but then call my wife upon the telephone and tell my wife "no quiero mucho a ______" and told my friend that she and her family married him because they thought he was rich.
   He's not and I am not.  I still have not figured out out they thought a man making $30,000 dollars a year can be a multi millionarie.  anyways, while she was here it seemed evident to me through the pathetic mean insults that she directed at him that she dd not love him but that he was blinded by fear and need to see the truth.
   My good friend DFW Guy can solemnly attest to the facts of this novella gone awry but it is very very serious business.  My friend blithely seems to not be aware that after she returned two weeks ago to Dallas that is is planning to leave for good and return to Colombia.
    Anyways, she called my wife today( she calls my wife because she does not have many friends, but I prefer that she not call my wife at all because my bride is very unmcomfortable about this whole tragedy) and told her that she only came back to get her personal property and did not love _____.  She stated that her father would save money for a return ticket but that _____'s wife was scared to death of her husband because he throws things and is very possessive and obsessive and emotional which is true since I know how he is.

    What do I do?  I do not trust her at all and want to tell the absolute truth to my buddy, but I know once I do then Either way I am the bad man since I failed to give full disclosure of the truth since I have known for three months she has been lying to ____.

    I mean it has been so bad that she even lied and told Jim thye morning her airplane was supposed to leave Cali that her grandmother was in intensive care in the hospital and could die at any moment.  Yet my wife's mother was at my best friend's wife's house in cali and she knows for a fact that it is a lie. This lie was after the last lie that it was her mother dying the week before in intensive care  (some heredity)

     Do I tell him?  Do I wait?  I am afraid she is scheming for something, but I know that I could be labeled a busybody too.  

                                               Thanks,

                                               Larry in Dallas

[CaliBound]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Dear Larry:

Be very careful how you handle this situation. If your friend isn't already a wife beater - he is displaying all the characteristics of becoming one.  

According to your post, your friend is obsessive, possessive, has financial and emotional problems and is already showing lack of self-control by throwing things around the house -- All the characteristics of a wife beater; a time bomb ready to explode.

Your friend's wife may never be fitted for a halo, but she does not deserve to be physically abused -- which may very well be the next step your friend take.

We always hear the man's side of the story in this forum. One of these day, I would love to hear the woman's side.  

Many of these women leave their family, friends and country thinking they found "Prince Charmin" -- and end up with a big "Fraudulent Frog".

My two cookies (to go with Howard's glass of milk!)

Frank

[El Diablo]

... in response to Prince Charmin -- Or Perhaps an Ugly Fro..., posted by CaliBound on Feb 6, 2002

Good post Frank.  This girl may be everything negative that the guys closer to this story have told.  But my take on all of this is not so much about her being a little demon but more about personal responsibility.  If this story had happened to one of my gringo friends, I think I'd be more critical of him than her. I think a 38 year old man is supposed to be a lot more mature than a 20 year old girl. He certainly has more power and more often than not sets the pace for how a relationship progresses. While I have empathy for his plight, I think he made his own bed in a sense by marrying so quickly and with someone so young.  We critisize her for presumably wanting a man who had more income but I wonder how much of his decision was not about her as a person but about her as a young beautiful sexy latina.  

El Diablo

[digital1942]

... in response to Prince Charmin -- Or Perhaps an Ugly Fro..., posted by CaliBound on Feb 6, 2002


If we want the woman's point of view we can always get it from you Skirt.

[DFWGuy]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Larry you know my vote already. Give him the truth with both barrells.  They both need it.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002


Mind you... he may disagree and follow his heart...

but eventually, when she does what you know she's going to do, you two will be sitting over beers some night, and he'll say: "You know, I should have listened to you."

That's better than sitting over beers and having him look you in the eye and say: "Why didn't you tell me? I thought you were my friend..."

[A1A]

... in response to Friends can Handle the Truth, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 5, 2002

I agree, he needs to know.  When my ex an I were splitting up I had a couple friends let me know what she was up to, I didn't like it, but I did appreciate it.  She knows what your friend is all about, he should know what his wife is up to also.  Believe me, you will stay his friend.
A1A

[stezo]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

hey Larry whats up? Sorry to hear things havent gotten better for your friend since we last talked. I think the way to approach this is what would you want him to do if the situation was reversed? I personally would want my friend to tell me but of course hes going to resist the truth and maybe be angry with you.
I think you should preface what you tell him about his wife with the fact that you are very uncomfortable about the whole thing and you wish you werent put in this position. Once you get him to realize that you dont really want to say what your about to say he will appreciate it more and maybe listen with rationale instead of emotion. I dont envy you buddy. I met your friend and his fiance in Cali before they were married and that was only in September. We talked very shortly but she seemed happy and he seemed to be in a daze. Im leaving in 2 weeks to get married so this isnt exactly the kind of story I wanted to hear! LOL Anyway good luck Larry.

[Edge]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Larry - the funny thing about being in situations where we are faced with telling the truth or not,  is the sometimes unpleasant "fact" that the "truth" has a nasty habit of coming out, sooner or later...This can be unpleasant if we ignore this.  No need to get into a philosphical discussion about the power of truth, but since I believe you are a religious man, you probably know what I am talking about.  I think salvation to any problem always lies with telling the truth.

You can protect yourself by telling the truth and the funny thing is, we often feel better when we do so.  Even if, at first, it is unpleasant and uncomfortable to have to do so.  Once you tell the truth, you really have nothing to fear after, as long as you know it to be the truth.

I think ultimately,  you will have to go with your instinct in this situation about how much damage this girl could do to your friend.  Your desire seems to be to protect him, at this point.  You feel uncomfortable because you have known some things for a time that you have not told him, but you also feel uncomfortable about becoming more involved??

I would just come clean to the guy, that I have known these things, I probably should have told you, etc.  Here is what I know...

He can then decide what "he" needs to do, but at at least your conscience is clean and you have done what you can to help.

my .02 on the situation.

Good luck and hang in there.

[H2Oh]

... in response to stick with the truth..., posted by Edge on Feb 5, 2002

I agree, tell the truth. I know a couple of guys in the same situation. I should tell them the truth but them won't listen. In your case with your friend sit them down and tell the truth. Warn your friend if he gets violent you will call the police.

My 2 cents, H2-Oh

[jim c]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

The first question is how close a friend are you? If he is your close friend, you have a responsibility to take him aside and ask if he is having trouble with his relationship. Maybe he will surprise you and confide in you his thoughts. If he is in denial there is nothing you can say and need to remove your family from the situation. If he is suspicious talk to him and help him cure the problem or extract himself from his folly and he can leave with some dignity. If you don't tell him you cannot help him. I am sure he is aware somewhere that he made a mistake. Maybe he should try counseling.
    This girl is representative of a young girl who thought she could solve her problems by marrying a rich american and your friend had a duty to be open about his financial status and not lead her to believe that life would be a bed of roses. She should not be condemed any more than he should. It strikes me by your description of him he has not tried to understand her needs and help her feel comfortable in adjusting to life with him here.
   This kind of relationship is harped upon constantly on this site and should be a lesson for the new people who read these posts. Why would a woman leave her family and her culture to marry a man who she has very little emotional understanding of and who can't communicate with her effectively his needs, wants, beliefs and emotions.
  Lonely hearts clubs are filled with people looking for solutions to their problems.  All of us have baggage. The agencies are filled with ladies who have financial problems are immature and are not realistic.The culture you see is not any more representitive of the colombian culture than any dating service here in the US.    
   Loneliness and sexual chemistry are our prime motivating factors. The Colombian women seem to have dreams of cinderella trying to make a prince out of a frog.I know that what I am saying will not be popular, and I am willing to admit that there are some successes in the process. We are all not frogs but there are very few princes among us. We are taking advantage of an opportunity both financial and cultural. But we have a responsibility to examine our relationships before we expend our emotions, finances and pride to satisfy our initial needs.

  I am fortunate that I have the time and resources to travel to Colombia frequently and therefore am over the initial tendency to marry without looking before I leap. But I would strongly suggest that each of us take time before becoming embroiled in a relationship doomed to failure. Hey we all can meet a woman and get married in Las Vegas because she has a great body. Why is that any different. On the flip side maybe he only has to make her life beautiful, become a prince and she will quit venting to your wife. jim c

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by jim c on Feb 5, 2002

Jim,
So she kissed a frog and he turned in to a poor Texan.
Sorry I couldn't pass on the humor here.
You are right,few princes among us I think.We might get percieved as the prince in Colombia but we have to be carefull that both we and the girl are being realistic.We can attract beautifull women but are they really interested in us and aware of what life will be like here?Our crown could tarnish fast once reality sets in.Might be a little froggy in lots of us.

Pete

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Re: The   "F "  word, posted by Pete E on Feb 5, 2002

Pete
   Who would you rather kiss?  A frog or a poor texan. I really think that she would like to make it work. She came back didn't she. She is just using the wife as a shoulder to cry on and I think counceling would help both parties. They have known each other for four months and she is afraid of him. That is really sad and if he wants to keep her, he had better start treating her like a princess. jim c

PS Remember the old saying, if you let her go free and she comes back she is yours.

[DFWGuy]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: The   "F "  word, posted by jim c on Feb 5, 2002

I know a little something of this situation and you and anyone else is in a dream world. She came back to get her stuff and really didn't want to do that. It is now or in the future and not a million hours of counseling is going to solve this one.

They are both very immature. He is possesive, has a lightning temper, and can be difficult to say the least. I might say a lot of things about the guy but I am pretty sure he was up front about his financial situation so that is also off base.  She had an agenda from day 1 and it was not love. This is plain and simple a case of wanting a green card, not realizing what you were going to have to do to get it.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: The   "F "  wo..., posted by DFWGuy on Feb 5, 2002

my my DFWGUY

Did I hit a nerve. I was only discussing a situation based on information I read. I am sure you know more than I about the situation. But the fact that you  "Are pretty sure he was up front" is not evidence that I am in dream world. If you dislike this girl so much why don't you just call up the guy and tell him. I could care less if the two of them ever get together. I don't want to hear another story in Colombia about another crazy american who treated a Calena badly.  She needs someone to defend her as it seems none of you like her. I can't seem to justify his behavior because she had an agenda, show me a woman that dosn't. Do you think his behavior has anything to do with her wanting to leave? So they are both wrong. What do you think each one of them will learn. What will you learn. I really can't wait for the outcome of this one.