Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?

[DFWGuy]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The   "F "..., posted by jim c on Feb 6, 2002

I think they both made their beds and should have to sleep in it.

As far as all women having an agenda I don't agree with that. That is too cynical for my view point.

I don't think she needs anyone to defend her and neither does he. They BOTH have acted STUPID.  If her only motivation was that she wanted a better life and kissed a prince and found a frog I would be right with you. HOWEVER knowing the story this woman has lied so many times and I mean WHOPPER's.

She has had numerious opportunities to just walk away if she kissed a prince and found a frog BUT each time SHE has elected to keep poking the embers of the fire and at the same time tell everyone but this guy she doesn't love the guy and only married him because she thought he was rich.  

Now in my book wanting a better life and marrying a guy because you think he is rich are VASTLY different. We call those women here GOLD DIGGERS! Why should this girl be any different.

As far as who should be more mature I agree that a 38 year old should be a lot more mature than a 20 year old HOWEVER that doesn't excuse her behavior either. Honesty is not something that you suddenly get at 30.

As far as thinking that his behavior has anything to do with her wanting to leave you betcha I do.  You have heard his better qualities described and they might even have been a little kind in the telling.  You think she didn't see this or know this before she married the guy? I assure you that she saw them.  

She thought she would just coast in, do her 2 years, get her green card and divorce the guy and start over at 22 with someone she loved and got a rude awakening.  I know that when he told her that if the furniture that they had wasn't good enough and she wanted new furniture that she was going to have to get a job and help out as he was tapped out. When she came back this last time she told the guy that getting a job was NOT an acceptable alternative to life in the style that she wanted to become accustomed to.

As far as learning anything I predicted this is exactly what would happen BEFORE they got married without ever having met this girl just from knowing this guy and talking to Larry about the girl.

As far as the outcome. Here is my prediction.

VERY SOON: She goes back. They get divorced. He really loses his temper and maybe does something STUPID.  I have already told Larry and I would tell anyone else that no matter what she did or does that does not give him the right or an excuse to get physical with the girl. In fact that might even be playing into her hands as that is the one reason she could stay, get a green card and he might be required to financially support her for some period of time.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: The   "F "  word, posted by jim c on Feb 5, 2002

Jim,
Sounds like you know more about this situation than I do.It can work if both people want it to and they tell the truth.
I hope they do what is best for both of them.

Pete

[Pete E]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Larry,
I think you should tell him.You would need to do it carefully,I would say starting out with how you know and you hesitation to say.This is a violation of confidence with your wife and the lady but your wife didn't ask to be told these things and they are not friends.
I guess bottom line the truth is always better,unless you are being a scammer like this girl then you want to hide the truth but it comes outanyway.
One element of so many of these bad examples is stories from the woman that are very suspect.Of course he had to wonder,but either doesn't want to know or confront her.Its tough when a person you care about is telling you things that are suspect but you would prefer to believe.
She is being very dishonest.She doesn't deserve to have her lies covered up.
Another lesson in picking the wrong one.I would think if he is honest he will admit doubts and suspicions from the start.
About the $30,000 income.I'm not sure if she knew the amount before she married him,but by Colombian standards that is alot of money.If you had that income in Colombia you would be considered very well to do.I guess they don't understand that it doesn't go too far in the US.She is probably figuring that out now and that may be part of the problem.Maybe she thought she was moving in to South Fork.
I got married quickly myself.I didn't have any doubts about my wifes character and fortunately I was right.
Your a good man Larry.I'm sure you will do what is right.I'm glad everything is going well for you.After meeting you and Nidyan I didn't have any doubts you would be fine.

Pete

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Pete E on Feb 5, 2002

Hi Pete

   I think you are being a little harsh. We are talking about a twenty year old girl who is in new country, is homesick and is helpless. She has no one to confide in and appears not to have the maturity to sit and talk about her problems with her new husband. I have to give her credit for returning from Colombia at all. We have some knowledge of what he is like. I heard him described as possessive, obsessive and emotional. He is also described as throwing things. Why is she a liar when she is afraid of him. What did he tell her life would be like. Did he just act like he was rich. If he acts this way in such a short time. Why should we condem her, " for better or worse"? We have a natural tendency to support each other, but in this case, I think we should chip in and buy her a ticket home just to show we are nothing like this guy. He seems like a prime candidate for counseling. jim c

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't..., posted by jim c on Feb 5, 2002

Jim,
I don't know much about the guy except the thing Larry said about him getting angry.He may have many problems of his own.
As far as the girl,I can't excuse blatant lies and manipulation regardless of how young and homesick she is.It looks like an example of the girl being in it for the money.
Now I know the money angle is a factor in about all of these  relationships,but here it looks like the only factor.
I don't really know the whole story on both of them but revealing the truth would be a good start.
Also I didn't say dump her,although it appears thats whats warrented.It doesn't look good.
But you are right in your above post.We are using our economic power when we go south and its part of the equation.Its not all our personal charm I know.If we were poor Colombian guys they probably wouldn't give us a second look.Just like Clint Eastwoods 30 year old wife probably wouldn't be with him if he wasn't rich and famous.
I think the trick is to get a girl who is basically honest and won't play alot of games with you and hopefully
can love you.

Pete

[Bueller]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Speaking for myself, I´d sure want you to tell me if I were him. I honestly don´t know why some people get angry when told by a friend about things like adultery. Bearers of bad news are not popular, but I´d be even more ticked if a friend stood silently for weeks or months while I was being stabbed in the back. Not everyone would agree with me, though.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002


Hi Larry,

I think this is one of the potential problems when people marry on the rebound or marry quickly.  Latin America is a great hunting ground but I'm not sure everyone is prepared for it when they arrive. This board frequently encourages any and everyone to "just go" but sometimes I wonder if this is wise.   For example, your buddy was in a previous relationship with a Latina and this woman didn't love him, so what does he do, on the rebound he travels to Cali and ends up with yet another woman who does not love him.  I think a lot of us tend to fall into the same patterns unless something drastic is done to correct it.  

It amazes me when I hear these stories of guys getting engaged or married to women who obviously don't love them.  Perhaps some men confuse lust with love and make the mistake of getting married too quickly from these feelings. But women are a different animal I think and because of this I believe they are less likely to confuse the two.  I guess this observation makes me suspicious of the intentions of women who proclaim love so quickly.

As far as your involvement, it looks like you are already involved to me.  You encouraged him to travel to Cali in the first place.  Your wife is having conversations with your buddy's wife about their personal marriage problems and then your wife is passing the information on to you.  It also sounds like your wife is passing the information on to her mother and her mother is either visiting the other family to confirm the details or perhaps she is friends of other family.  

I think the best way to avoid these situations is to stay out  of them from the beginning.  I know sometimes this is easier said then done and we find ourself getting pulled into something we never wanted to be involved in. Absent staying out of it to begin with, it seems to me your wife, not you, is the person who needs to resolve this.  I think your wife has an obligation to tell his wife that she does not want to be involved in these kind of  conversations anymore and that she is going to tell her husband the truth.  Your wife should then tell your buddy the truth in a way that only deals with the facts and is not some long drawn out soap opera.  At this point I think it would be wise for you and your wife to drop the whole thing and remove yourself from the mess you fell into.   He will have the facts and hopefully he will be able to figure things out on his own.

El Diablo

[TexasRob]

... in response to Not necessarily, posted by El Diablo on Feb 5, 2002

Amen.  Excellent post

[John O]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Sorry about the pain your friend's going thru.

It's not your responsibility, but given your & your wife's involvement w/________'s wife, I think it would be better to tell him. I know I would want to know.

But, as Tai observed, you have to put yourself in your friend's shoes & imagine how he would feel if you did or didn't tell him. He'll learn soon enough, anyway.

Just my 2 pesos.

[Tai]

... in response to Darned if I do-dam*ed if I don't?, posted by Larry in Dallas on Feb 5, 2002

Larry(in Dallas),

Ask yourself this question...

If she does leave him for good, but your friend goes down to Cali in order to try and bring her back, and she spills her guts...including the fact that you knew all this stuff all along....

Would he take that worse than your telling him first, now?

just a thought

Tai