Pre-nuptial

[Stephen]

... in response to Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by humabdos on May 31, 2001

HUM:

I never said anything about an unfair pre nup Why would and good attorney make up a pre nup which was uninforceable? That would be stupid.

STEPHEN:

You write a pre-nup.....then later you go to divorce court and litigate.  You thought it would hold in court when you wrote it, but at court the judge makes the decision if it holds.

HUM:

It is just not fair to be drug through court when what she is asking for is clearly over the top!!! It cost me dearly just because she wanted to punish me for making her louse face because she was a two timeing gold digging PUTA!

STEPHEN:

Divorce law isn't about what is fair and just.  Divorce is based around two people who have fallen head-over-heels in hate with one another.  At one time they thought they couldn't live without that person, and now they realize that they can't live with them.

Do you see all the anger and resentment in your statement.  You are HACKED!  I understand your position, but that's what divorce law is about.....run-away emotions.

Everybody thinks they have a perfectly good reason to kill the other person.  Everyone thinks they are 100% right.

Think about it.

[cc]

... in response to Re: Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by Stephen on May 31, 2001

Of course it's awkward to ask your fiancee to sign a prenup, but I disagree that this implies in any way that the man has doubts or is insincere about the marriage.

Think about this: Humabdos "won" his case, but he still lost $15,000 in lawyer fees. To many of us, that's quite a bit of money. As a lawyer, you can probably defend yourself plus you may have a more realistic estimation about the financial risk you undertake...

[Stephen]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by cc on Jun 1, 2001

Yes, CC, you have made some very good points.

I feel that there are some very valid places for a prenuptual.  Let's face it.  They're not the most romantic sounding things in the world.  I think that a couple who marry late in life would do well to use them.  For example two senior adults who have grown children get married.  A prenuptual would be good to define what the widow would get.  (i.e., she can live in the house till she dies, then his children will inherit the house at that time.  This way she is taken care of and the children still have the inheritance.  Etc.)

And certainly you are right about the high prices of legal battles.  I constantly ask people if they can afford to be right.  Some times you just have to take a butt-kicking and get on with your life.  

So yes....it was extremely unfortunate that it cost $15,000 for Hum to do this.  (Hum......a hit-man would be a lot cheaper.)  In reality a "win" will feel pretty hollow when it costs you that kind of money.

I'm not a high-roller attorney.  I'm a very simple person.  I have a one-man office.  I'm much better at negotiating than stabbing people in the back.

By the way,.....I will probably take in a divorce client that I talked to today.  Here's the situation.  It's a 10 year marriage....2nd marriage for both husband and wife.  He signed a marital settlement agreement a few months ago.  He let her take all her pension and waived support.  He did this in order to impress her and get her back.  He has been being treated for bi-polar disorder for nearly 30 years.  He is also taking medication for the Cancer he now has.  And he has undergone drug abuse problems also in the last 10 years.  AND.....the wife earns a 6 figure income and he's can't do anything.  Sooooooooo I need to get that marital settlement thrown out and go for getting spousal support and one-half of her retirement benefits during the life of the marriage.  (remember....in California you divide marital assets 50-50.)

I will claim that all the medication he is taking for bi-polar and the cancer medication makes him crazy....he didn't know what he was doing when he signed that marital settlement agreement.  I asked him "Are you going to get upset if I tell the judge that my client is crazy as hell and doesn't know what he's doing?"  He told me that was okay with him.  

We'll see......... Hum, do you want to come down from Oregon and help me with this case?

Stephen

[cc]

... in response to Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by Stephen on Jun 1, 2001

If you can show that your client was in a manic phase while signing away his rights, you might have a good case - I don't know how his drug abuse will play since it probably interfered with the treatment.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings about prenups - on the one hand I strongly feel that if there is a strong economical gap between the partners to begin with, that the one with the assets has a right to protect these, sort of an insurance. And I really don't think it "reveals other motives" (what motives???) that he is less sincere because of it.

On the other hand I also see how in romantic terms a prenup is a "downer". I myself have never been married - if I get to this crossroad, will see whether the romantic in me or the realist in me will have the upper hand ;-)

[humabdos]

... in response to Re: Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by Stephen on May 31, 2001

I guess thats why she got nothing then.  Devorce is about MONEY  and NOTHING BUT MONNEY! And you stinking attorneys are the one getting it all. PISS OFF   Please. Thanks Humabdos

[Stephen]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Prenuptial suicide, posted by humabdos on Jun 1, 2001

You're absolutely right, Hum.

Who won that divorce case.  No you.  Not your ex-wife.  

THE ATTORNEYS WON.

That's why people should fight with their heads, and not with their emotions.

Also....it seems that it was your wife's attorney that insisted on dragging this to a trial.  If one party insists on fighting, then there is going to be a fight.

[Ray]

... in response to Pre-nuptial, posted by midnightgirl on May 31, 2001

Peaches,

For the record, I personally do not like the idea of pre-nuptial agreements, primarily for the reasons that Carrisse pointed out. But I’m going to give you some advice that you probably don’t want to hear.

Since your friend is already married just leave it alone and stay out of her marriage. If she wanted you to know about it, she would have told you. So again, my advice is to mind your own business and ignore the "gossip" you heard from your other "friend".

Just my $.02,

Ray

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Pre-nuptial, posted by Ray on May 31, 2001

Sorry Peaches, that was for midnightgirl...

Ray

[Carrisse]

... in response to OOPS!, posted by Ray on May 31, 2001

...

[Ray]

... in response to I think Patrick needs to put an edit but..., posted by Carrisse on May 31, 2001

:-)

[Carrisse]

... in response to Pre-nuptial, posted by midnightgirl on May 31, 2001

She actually showed her husband that she's not in it for the money.  But I would question her husband's motives.  And just an advice for the girls out there who will be in this situation--you better make sure before you sign that prenup that you can stand on your own two feet after the divorce.  And that you can provide for yourself after he left.

Prenups will also not deter you from collecting child support if there are children involved.

Will I sign a prenup?  Yes, if there is a valid explanation as to why I need to sign one.  If there is none and he insists, I will sign and then not show up at the wedding. BTW, this really happened in the PI.

[outwest77]

... in response to Not exactly, posted by Carrisse on May 31, 2001

lol, not show up for the wedding.

[Carrisse]

... in response to Carrisse you crack me up, posted by outwest77 on May 31, 2001

To a rich Chinese couple in the PI.  The groom is the scion of a vast conglomerate and his bride is the daughter of a well-known Chinese businessman.  They are both mega-rich.  The day before the wedding, the groom presented the prenup to the bride, thinking that since she is also from a rich family she would understand.  He explained that there are family heirlooms/monies/properties that he would like to keep in the family.  The bride signed the prenup but was really hurting inside (specially when he said 'keep in the family', what is she--chopped liver?).  The day of the wedding, the groom and his family waited for the bride and her family in the church.  Hours passed and no one showed up.  He lost face as well as thousands of pesos paying for the wedding that never happened.

Hell hath no fury like a woman who just signed a prenup!

[cc]

... in response to Hey it did happen....., posted by Carrisse on May 31, 2001

Sounds to me like there was no communication between the couple to begin with, and he probably was better off by NOT marrying her.

Question to the Ladies: Why do you think that a prenup is a sign of mistrust and/or lack of love???

[Stephen]

... in response to Question to the Ladies, posted by cc on May 31, 2001

Well CC:

How about this......

She's from a third world country.  She has nothing compared to an american.  I ask her to completely trust me and move halfway around the world....where she knows no one....and live here in this strange country.

Then I say, "But you need to sign this agreement that says if we divorce I take everything."

I believe that any smart Filipina would begin to wonder about my commitment.

Talk is cheap....now my actions show what's really in my heart.

Stephen