Dateline NBC's report of Colombia last Friday

[pack]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by muddslinger on Sep 4, 2001

o k ,where then..colombia is to dangerous says Geraldo and montanas to cold and san diego sucks ...now where???

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: Are you blind Pack?, posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over the IRA agents cuaght in Bogota. After all they haven't leveled Dublin yet with their expertise. Besides the FARC have for some time now been using household cooking gas cylinders very efectively to blow the bejeesus out of rural towns when they want to. On some other matters: don't think for a minute the FARC and ELN don't know about the agencies. They're not dumb, the agencies are all over the internet which you can be sure they moniter for many reasons just like everybody else. Besides if every taxi driver in Cali who has ever picked up a gringo amd most women in Cali know why wouldn't the FARC?

On the economy yes there are terrible negatives but it isn't all black. Look at today's headlines in El Pais, the Cali paper. It says construction is moving along nicely on the new bridge over Pasoancho and all the associated street widening projects thanks to taxes. It also says that foreign investment in Colombia in the first half of 2001 is more than six times what it was in all of 2000. On other programs: did you know there is a housing subsidy program for individuals in estrato 1 in the towns? Aproximately one hundred grants depending on population size are given to individuals in estrato 1 in each pueblo who can show a bank savings account of seven hundred thousand pesos ($350). This is to buy the lot. If they qualify they are given a grant of fourteen thousand pesos ($7000) to build a house. This is one government program and there are others.

I think Pack is right, for gringos hanging out in Cali in the sexta area or Ciudad Jardin in the south there is no more danger than in any big city anywhere in the world.

While Colombia is undeniably a dangerous country I have to say that the last time I was off the beaten path (El Valle, Choco on the Pacific coast) I ran into an American couple from New York (puertoriqueno and colombiana) a couple from France (no Spanish, their first time in Colombia) and a Polish couple in their 20s who'd bumbled into the guerilla in eastern Colombia (everyone surprised.) So sure it's dangerous out there but you know? the rest of the world is not as terrified as we are. The most common foreign tourists in Santa Marta? The Brits!  

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No he's ..., posted by Cali vet on Sep 4, 2001

Cali-Vet,

Nice info. Are you considering relocating to Colombia in the near future? I'm sure that you can definitly apply and acquire the housing subsidies. However, ask yourself "what is the percentage of Colombians that CANNOT show that amount of money up front?" Not just for the plot of land, but also for building the house. Don't forget to consider the people outside of the bigger cities. The people that live in the rural areas, where the reality of life is totally different than the plush neighborhoods of Ciudad Jardin. Also, keep in mind there is more than having the cash up front for land and building a house. Surely you realize this. What about maintance? What about telephone bills? What about insurance? Electricity and such. Livinging expenses. I know Cali is your old stomping grounds, that's why you call yourself "Cali-Vet." But, you have to admitt, the country is struggling with problems that is causing discomfort for every law abiding and patriotic Colombian person.

Another issue is this. If you and your boy "Pack" were Colombians born and raised, living there with family, children, parents, grandparents, and such; you would preceive the turmoil there differently. You would become worried; hoping and preying for resolutions for the problems. However, you're not a Colombian. You don't have to live there for a second. You can always hop a plane, and fly back to your place in the USA, eat 3 healthy meals a day, look in your bank account, lay on your bed, roll over a couple of times, buy a new outfit, and plan for your next trip down south when ever you would like to go.

Also, I want to say this. Even though I prefer Calenas and I like Colombia. I realize that there is a whole world to explore and enjoy. When I meet Mrs. Right, that mamacita and I are going to travel the globe and forget about the Narcos, FARC, ELN, AUC, and what ever other ABCs come on the scene.

Nos Vemos,
Aaron

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No h..., posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

Aaron

You completely bumbled the information I passed along in my post above regarding the home subsidy program. Either pay attention or just skip it.

[JUAN]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you blind Pack? No h..., posted by Aaron on Sep 4, 2001

It's refreshing to see someone on this board that tries to look at the situation in Colombia through the eyes of the Colombian people.

Objective and realistic.

[Aaron]

... in response to Great Post Aaron, posted by JUAN on Sep 5, 2001

Juan,

Thank you for your support. I really like Colombia. I have many professional Colombian friends, as well as some friends that are from poorer areas of the country. I also have Colombian friends who recently immigrated to the USA.
Both groups of Colombians, here and there, all feel uneasy about the situation there. Also, the Colombians here in the USA have an additional issue because not only their homeland is being terrorized, they have to find a way to assimilate into the American social and economic structure. As soon as they got here, they quickly realized that "our streets are not paved with gold" nor can the "American Dream" be quickly realized for everyone.

Last time I was in Colombia, I was in Giron, near Bucaramanga de Santander. For those that don't know about Giron, this is the small town where the brother of one of the leaders of the FARC was recently murdered. I was so surprised when reading the news yesterday, realizing that I had been there just one year ago. Also, I went into the Chicamocha mountain ranges and to the river. These places are frequently used by guerrillas for travel routes at night. During the day, they were safe given two or three small military camps with 5 to 10 soldiers. In these mountains, I never will forget, I saw a little boy and girl chasing our car down the mountain side, asking for a little money for something to eat. My friend, which was a Colombian man kept driving. He said that in Colombia people have became insensitive to beggers. I felt bad about that because I could have gave a little something, but I didn't. However, as soon as I got back to the city, I gave about 10 dollars, which still isn't much, to the next begger I saw.
I made a promise to myself, that the next time I go back, if I go back because one never knows where God will send them, that I'm going to take about $1000.00 to give to a Catholic orphanage in Cali. This is also another issue. What about the refugees that have been displaced in various locations? What about the children that will be without parents when all this violence is over? Think about that CAli-Vet and Pack.

Take care Juan.

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Great Post Aaron, posted by Aaron on Sep 5, 2001

The guy who got killed by "unknown gunmen" last week (Saturday, I think) in Giron was the brother of the leader of ELN, not FARC.

Say, what can you tell me about Bucaramanga? My lady is from there, but I haven't been down there yet(planning to go in this December, when she gets her vacation).

As far as taking the rebel situation seriously, recently ELN murdered her cousin and in a seperate incident they kidnapped 3 people she works with....sounds serious enough to me.

[Aaron]

... in response to Actually......, posted by Michael B on Sep 5, 2001

Yo Mike,

Thanks for clearing that up. You're right because the ELN is closer in position to Giron than the FARC. Giron is about an hour drive away from Bucaramanga, from what I can remember. Chicamocha is about 2 to 3 hours of driving south. At this point in time, I wouldn't go to the places where I had been last year. So, I would stay in the city if I were you.  

B/manga is very clean, organized, and classy in most of the downtown areas. It is smaller than Cali, but larger than Cartagena. The city is very nice. I liked it allot. It has 2 San Andresitos and 2 Malls. So if you need to go shopping, you can. In Bucaramanga there is a really nice area called Canaveral. A beautiful neighborhood, with nice shopping areas.

The people of B/manga are very patriotic and friendly. The professional people there dress very elegant on a daily basis. Most of the people have indian features, but there are some whites, blacks, mestizos, and mulattos. Before I went there, my Colombian friends had told me that B/manga has some of the most beautiful women in the country. When I got there, I realized that they were telling me the truth. The women are very stunning and polished. Not too much Salsa in B/manga though, but allot of Ranchera. I'm not a big fan if Ranchera. I love Salsa. That's one of the reasons why I like Calenas so much.

There are two agencies that I know of in B/mamga. One is affiliated with a travel agency downtown, never been to it though. The other is a little outside of downtown, and it is operated by a guy named Christan Diaz. He charged me $200 for a yearly membership. I didn't fuss about the price because on vacation my whole objective is to have a good time....given the budget I'm on.

I'm sure you'll like your stay. Enjoy your trip.
Aaron

[pack]

... in response to Dateline NBC's report of Colombia last F..., posted by Larry in Dallas on Sep 3, 2001

typical media crapola! oooo..scarey! its all about ratings.good....more scarey media reports means less gringos which equals more chicas for the rest of us.