Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?

[John O]

I haven't been posting regularly lately, but I've been reading posts and appreciating battle reports from my fellow seekers.

I was seeing a lady in Cali on my last 2 trips in Dec/Jan. & April. I met M. at Latin Connections. She's 24, single mom, cute w/a great bod, smart, frank, strong and confident. But a bit too brash for my tastes. I'm a quiet, easygoing guy, and while I don't mind opinionated ladies, I dislike know-it-all, argumentative persons, which M. unfortunately is. She would say things that were offensive to me, and then refuse to apologize or acknowledge my feelings.

It's been hard for me to let go of M., because I spent a lot of time w/her & her sweet daughter, she's a great lady, & she really likes me. I just don't think we're compatible enough. Frankly, I think I can do better.

I've noticed that some cultures (e.g., Russians) seem not to value apologies or even to avoid apologizing. Perhaps see it as a weakness. Some Latinas I've known are like this, but not all. One lady told me that Colombians will only apologize for some serious infraction. Otherwise, the most you'll get is a "Que pena" which I'm not sure qualifies as an apology, at least to me.

Has anybody else had a problem w/hard-headed Latinas who won't apologize for their offenses?

[John O]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

Thanks to all who commented on this (for me) interesting topic. I agree that generalizations are always risky, often false & sometimes useless, even when true.

Hey, did I just make a generalization?

As for me, I am probably guilty of too many apologies and too thin skin. I suspect that my lady friend's habits are more individual than cultural. So I'm moving on, but staying in the territory.

Another generalization: A really caring lady will always let you know she cares. If she rarely apologizes, it's probably because she rarely needs to.

That's the kind of lady I'm looking for.

Suerte... John O

[Hoda]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

Talk of latinas are this or latinas are that, are self defeating. Remember the "Ugly American"? How many of you fall in this category? You better stop wasting your time on the generalizations, and just focus on the individual. With my lady & and all of her female family & friends. I haven't witnessed this refusal to apologize when they were wrong. If you don't apologise to them, when you're wrong. THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME PROBLEM'S...

sho nuff......

[Tai]

... in response to Generalizations are a waste of time, posted by Hoda on Aug 22, 2001

AMEN HODA!!!

All the SA ladies I have ever met....when they did something wrong, or I let them know I didn't appreciate it...they apologized.  

When a latin or any other lady doesn't apologize, that is an INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER thing, NOT a cultural thing.

Perhaps a lot of it has to do with the environment, dynamics, and precedence created. Like....

1. Perhaps the man isn't apologizing when HE is wrong and therefore the woman now follows suit.

2. Perhaps the man is not paying attention to the woman or is disrespectful in some other way, and she has become resentful.

3. Perhaps the man has placed the woman on a pedestal and kisses her butt so much that she has developed a "Queen complex". -The Queen doesn't apologize to her subjects.

I have seen countless gringos setting themselves up for #3. So enamored with a young woman's beauty or being in such a rush to "get a wife" that they let her slide on character flaws....that come back later to take a big BITE of @ss.

The foundation for the type of relationship that will develop later starts the moment two people meet and begin to interact. EVERYTHING counts. People ignore signs at their own peril, and actively participate in creating their own heaven or hell.

just .02

Tai

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Generalizations are a waste of time, posted by Tai on Aug 22, 2001

I agree with Tai in that there is there is as much variety of personalities in Colombia as any place we gringos are already familiar with. There is however one genralization  that can be safely made at least according to my experiences. Colombian woman are decidedly posesive and jealous and don't hesitate to express those reactions. They're never wiley about it the way gringas often are. If a colombiana isn't posessive after you've gone out a few times she probobly doesn't care about you one way or the other. Some even get possesive in the first interview. I used to be flattered untill I found out she was just as posessive at her next one. I don't know how they do it but Colombian men just seem to have them psyched. And the competition is fierce which I don't think has been seen here since the 50s or 60s. "He's so fine oh yea, gonna make him mine oh yea". Or something like that. Just my 50 pesos.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Re: Generalizations are a waste of t..., posted by Cali vet on Aug 22, 2001

hey vet

    I have an interesting perspective. Pride and Face. (Cool it pervert.) Face in the oriental perspective. My experience is,that how others perceive one in colombia is ultimately important. If you cross a man publicly you could get killed for it,no matter how trivial. If you dump a woman no matter how richly she deserves it, she will hate you forever for the public embarassment. Warnings about bad behavior or neglecting the others feelings are just not heard when one is with a colombian queen. .  Apologies forget it, its better to lose the relationship than ones pride or face. No amount of warning will prepare her for the dump. I don't know if its the language comprehension barrier or cultural. But in my case I was surprised that she was surprised or even upset. jim c

[Tai]

... in response to Re: Re: Generalizations are a waste of t..., posted by Cali vet on Aug 22, 2001

Cali-Vet,

With the abundance of beautiful women in high concentration in SA, the competition IS ultra fierce. As beautiful as many of the women are down there, the majority of them HAVE STILL been kicked to the curb by some guy in favor of another woman.

This common experience that the women share is also the reason for their distrust and competition with each other. Some women as a result have become overly jealous...as in they get possessive of even their "prospects"....while others "turn" once they have become the novia or have made an investment of time or emotion in a guy....at which time he becomes "theirs".

A friend of mine in Barranquilla is the profesor and manager in a beauty school/salon. One day when I was hanging out there and talking with the ladies, I was surprised by some of the ladies that confessed to having been dumped. I was like, "Are you kidding me? YOU were dumped? Was the guy blind?"

Granted, the looks aren't everything, but the stories of ladies who ranged in age, height, weight, personality...all sounded virtually the same.

Also, judging by how the ladies little by little began competing for my attention/focus during the conversation, I think that often times they don't even realize how they are behaving.

The jealousy/possessive thing is precarious...it may seem cute in the beginning, but if you don't tame it quick...you will be in for a rough ride.

Tai

ps - There are those beasts of jealousy that are too wild(too far gone) to be tamed. In those cases, trade in the whip and the chair for a pair of nikes...and RUN FOR IT!

[rubio]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

its definately a cultural thing. i go threw the same thing with my wife. latin women , just don't apologize and realize the value you put on an apology is not the same to them. so not only will it be very hard for them to apologize, but if you apologize to them. do not expect "i am truly sorry to change much in them either". this has not been my experience with my wife , but with every latin women i have been with. i hate to generalize, but another thing is the feel it is ok to accuse you of something and when they are wrong, don't expect to hear "i am sorry" they feel its there right to do it
good luck

[HappyIdiot]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

Heh, I'm sure this is not a unique trait to latin women only, but my experience in Brazil and with my friend J leads me to think some of it may be cultural and some the person.  My impression of Brazil, from one visit is that they are less confrontational than people in the US.  Also, from my experiences with J, I think it is a learning process to understand the person and why someone is upset by something expecially when you have the added complexity of different cultures.

I don't know about your situation with this lady, but if you post, "Frankly, I think I can do better." and that is really how you feel, you should try to wrap up your relationship with her as soon as possible.  It will make you both available for the person that you respect and have a sustainable bond with.

But to answer your question, yes I've ran into this problem and you have to have a LOT of patience and try many ways of explaining something over a period of time when she is ready to listen.  To me, it wasn't so important the apology, but the understanding(on both of our parts) to prevent the same problem from arising again and again.

[jim c]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

one comes to mind, you had to apologize for what she did. I never heard one losiento in almmost two years. jim c

[Viajero]

... in response to Latinas Allergic to Apologizing?, posted by John O on Aug 21, 2001

John, in my experience this is not a cultural thing, but rather something that is unique to your lady. I would say that the style of apology I have received is sometimes different than we are accustomed to, but there seems to be something going on between the two of you that you should resolve. That, or move on. If it is true that you can do better, then do it!

An intersting observation you've made re: russian girls. Once I was in Nicaragua at a resort with a former flame and her family, and we met an Italian tourist there. He and I shared notes about places we'd been, and to make a long story short he described Slavic women as "hard people", and chalked it up to culture, climate and history. I agreed that this had been true for me, but as I looked at my sweetie and her sisters nearby I couldn't help but feel very lucky that this was not the case with them nor with most of the latinas I had met. Not all, but most. There are ill-mannered latinas, too. Go find one who suits you better. I did! The words "I'm sorry" make up one of the few English phrases she knows, and she's not afraid to use it.