packs cali trip# 10

[pack]

you guys who have been to cali before know how after a few days of being there the days just sorta start running together ? well thats how it starts getting for me about now . so the report im giving you now is 2 or 3 days combined.

during these days L has had her hours at work changed so its difficult to reach her and when i do shes sleeping or tired or something. so i decide well im not just gonna sit around. remember the blonds? well i call them ask if they'd like to go out to dinner they agree to come to LE margereths place at 7:00 pm. i then pick out one of Ricardos girls for a 2:00 appt , trying to fill up my day you know.

 the two oclock is a no show, Ricardo calls her and gives her hell she apologizes and says she'll come over friday. i sit around most of the day visiting. about 4:00 one of the blonds calls..cant make it sick...o k a few hours later the second blond calls cant make it has to take care of the other sister. ok well this has really been a productive day L"s working, the blonds are sick , and the other girl is shopping or something. you know what this means  dont you? no not vodka time but close try Corona. i spend the remainder of the day bored  silly but enjoying my cold Coronas.

next day knock at the door..hey its Ken and cali-vet, Ricardo gives them the tour and piles his books in front of them. they are both impressed calivet says he may stay here a few days.

im a little down at this point i dont seem to be having much luck im even considering leaving cali early. i spend the next few days walking , visiting the staff at Ricardos and Margereths, going to chipi chapa, etc

i call L shes home and i find out shes available friday. friday comes i pick her up and take her to the mall and surprize her with a manicure and peticure. we go back to her home pick up the boy and we all go to the cine to see jurasic park, the kid loves it. we spend the day together and all ends well. tomorrow you arent going to belive what happens next..hint...its a real pain in the -ss !!!

[Red Clay]

... in response to packs cali trip# 10, posted by pack on Aug 19, 2001

A city full of beautiful women and you put up with "L"'s nonsense? She's a walking red flag, in case you hadn't noticed.

[pack]

... in response to Re: packs cali trip# 10, posted by Red Clay on Aug 19, 2001

i can't tell you how many times i have been told this..get in line.

[Sol]

... in response to Re: Re: packs cali trip# 10, posted by pack on Aug 19, 2001

Pack,

I don't know if you've been told this but look real hard for your role in this dysfunctional relationship. I had a five year relationship with an American girl. When I got out of it I did soul searching, counseling and other things to get my stuff together. It helped a lot. When I started my search in Colombia I had enough self esteem and good enough radar that I was able to quickly screen out the ones that weren't mature enough, or didn't really love me, or weren't really available for getting married.

The first lady I met, in Medellin, was very nice, very pretty, a great hostess but had some qualities I didn't want in a wife - she was moody, opinionated, and needed to always have the last word. I had picked my last girlfriend all over again but in a prettier Colombian body. Well, I figured that out quickly enough and moved on.

The lady I'm about to propose to is sweet, home oriented, wants to be a wife, lover, mother, friend, she is pretty, but not a model, is crazy about me, comes from a good home, has never even hinted at my giving her money, is very patient, appreciative of what I bring to the relationship, passionate, romantic, a great dancer, has very compatible values, and is emotionally very STABLE. Plus, I'm very clear that I have a tremendous amount to offer to this sweet lady.

It is my experience that we attract people into our lives who are at the same emotional level that we are. Until I *emotionally* cleaned up tons of baggage that I got from my mom and past relationships I kept looking for women who needed to do the same cleaning up that I needed to do. It wasn't their fault that they showed up in my life - I drew them to me! Had I not done my homework I would have kept finding the same kinds of crummy relationships in Colombia, with the added danger that these women might use me to come to the U.S. or to seduce me into giving them money.

If you've read old posts of mine it might now make sense why I am partial to letter writing first. I want the comfort of developing a common base first so I'm not as easily seduced by these gorgeous women.

So, I agree with everyone else who says that there are way too many attractive women who are sweet and good marriage material but until you can see past your patterns you'll never notice them.

Something to think about!

Sol

[pack]

... in response to Re: emotional rollercoaster relationship..., posted by Sol on Aug 19, 2001

so does your girl have a sister? i agree with most of what you say. you sound like a pro write person, it seems most of the guys on this board have broken into two groups the pro write and the pro just go down there groups. im a pro just go there....because you see Sol...L is a write catagory, i met her through latin euro in 1997 we wrote and telephoned for several months before i actually went to see her. so im not so sure about the writing system.

[Sol]

... in response to Re: Re: emotional rollercoaster relation..., posted by pack on Aug 19, 2001

Pack,

Nope, my lady doesn't have a sister who's available but there are thousands of sweet women all over Latin America.

I crashed and burned on my first trip after having written and spoken on the phone with the first lady for several months. So, no, I'm not saying you can weed out all the incompatible ones via phone and letter screen. That first experience left me gun shy since I had seen no clues about the dark side of her personality during the phone/letter phase and I am definitely one of those perceptive (and suspicious) types who can usually sniff out deception. What made the difference for me is that I got much clearer, after the first trip, about what I wanted and what I didn't want. I didn't want a lady who was sophisticated, worldly, or "over-educated". I wanted someone who was "uncomplicated", which doesn't mean dumb or naive, it means I wanted someone who expressed herself clearly and directly and didn't play games. I'm 37, my lady is 28. I want to get on with my life, be married, have children, and have a life together with a sweet lady. She's young enough to have a sweet innocence, yet old enough to have a good amount of maturity. Her family is good. She doesn't lie or manipulate, she's not interested in my money - she's a lady who has no interest in Colombian men and wants someone who will love her and protect her and she's willing to give her all to such a man. IT'S THAT SIMPLE and I'm the lucky man!

Regarding writing vs. the just-go system. I don't think it's the system that makes the difference, I think it's part luck and part how much you are each revealing in either process, and also it's very much about how well you can read other people. In my personal experience, when I was really wounded in my life I wanted to have really gorgeous women attracted to me because I figured I must be a worthwhile person if some hottie or other found me attractive. So, I was in a trance when I was with women and I'd not assert myself and I'd not see what they were doing to me nor how I was manipulating for their attention. My dating experience for years was quite a mess.

I personally don't trust myself to not get sucked into a lady's seduction which is why I write first and make sure that we have a common basis. My letters have been about important topics, religion, sex, raising children, values around money, communication ... I set the tone very early on that I will respect the lady completely and I expect the same from her and I model that I want to have a serious dialogue about what a life together would be like. I believe that the ones that aren't serious weed themselves out by either not responding or by not engaging intimately in the dialog. If I were to trust myself to screen first in a face to face meeting I might do that. While the chemistry is absolutely vital to me, top appearance isn't, and I was willing to risk writing for a few months and risk discovering that the chemistry wasn't right.

My guess is that the two of you are "enmeshed" in a very unproductive relationship if you've been at this for 4 years with no progress. I really question whether you're even available for a lifetime commitment.

Do you see the red flags that others are pointing out?

Comments like "Does she have a sister?" make me think you don't see your own involvement here. I hear the fantasy of, "why is he so lucky to have found such a sweet lady? I'm just unlucky." Latin America absolutely REEKS of attractive, sweet, wonderful women. Can YOU handle the total commitment of dedicating yourself completely to one of them? Think really hard about that question. Before I cleared out enough of my own crud I was too afraid to commit to someone and I played around a bunch. When you're ready to commit the available women will swarm all over you.

Just my 2 cents.

Sol

[pack]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: emotional rollercoaster rela..., posted by Sol on Aug 19, 2001

well first off the crack about does she have a sister was a half hearted joke . i didnt really mean does she have a sister. yea im ready to commit but im also a very cautous person having been burnt a few times in my life. of course i see red flags , but to be honest with you about 70 % of the girls iv met in cali i have seen red flags...so again caution...no need to rush! i cant even begin to tell you all the gringos i have met that have married a calena and are now in devorce court. i'll wait awhile before i commit.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: emotional rollercoaster relationship..., posted by Sol on Aug 19, 2001

Good general observations about psychology and relationships.  I'd just like to add that as a group, we ALL need to be better about not throwing money at these girls.  I'm not picking on Pack per se as I did something similar once and it happens frequently but nevertheless I believe it was not a particularly good idea to buy her a bed at the first hint of her trouble.   This creates an environment where L type women join agencies not necessarily for marriage but rather for the perks.  We are helping to create a pool of less than desirable women.  The easy supply of expensive gifts and perks is creating a larger and larger group of L's.

El Diablo

[cdrab]

... in response to Re: Re: emotional rollercoaster relation..., posted by El Diablo on Aug 19, 2001

You are right I think we have all been there and bought these woman things and taken them out to expensive restaurants. But maybe the problem now is if we don't do this there is a possibility the girl might think we are cheap seing as the last how many gringos took them to fancy restaurants and bought them etc etc etc
Maybe the better way to proceed is to ask the girls to suggest where they would like to eat.Or possibly we should suggest places like lisbon y Carbon (I hope that is the right name) It is in unicentro and a very reasonably priced grill.Many times I think we are trying to impress the girl so much we let our selves get into the conversation of what they like and before a guy knows what happens we have bought half the store.
Possibly the newer girls at the agencys might not of been exposed to this treatment.

Clint

[Pete E]

... in response to So what's a guy to do?, posted by cdrab on Aug 19, 2001

Clint,
Nice restaurants are one thing,buying expensive things or giving her money another.I like nice restaurants,I would eat there by myself if I didn't have a date,and it is exposing her to the lifestyle she would have with me.Gifts and money can improve a lifestyle she can have without you.
Yes,there is a fine line between generosity and throwing money at them.I never wanted to be thought to be cheap,which I am not,especially in a place where money goes so far.Each guy has to decide for himself,and observe the consequenses.Its also important to watch how they react to your spending money.Do they try to save you money sometimes?Point out less expensive alternatives?

Pete

[El Diablo]

... in response to So what's a guy to do?, posted by cdrab on Aug 19, 2001

Howdy Clint,

It seems to me there's a middle ground between being cheap and buying expensive gifts.  There's nothing wrong with taking a woman to a nice restaurant, like Diego's for instance and to a movie or out dancing.  This is normal dating etiquette. When a woman is your novia, a gift on her birthday and Christmas is to be expected.  Flowers on special occasions are nice also.  A person need not be cheap but we don't need to fix every broken wing or create dependent relationships with our novia's and their families.

I have broken my own rule on occasion and every time I have regretted it. Not because it was a lot of money for me but because the money or gift changed the relationship in some way.  I pay for my novia's English classes at the Colombo Institute now, this is the only recurring expense that I feel comfortable paying.  I paid the institute directly myself when I was in Cali.  

El Diablo

[cdrab]

... in response to Re: So what's a guy to do?, posted by El Diablo on Aug 19, 2001

El Diablo
  Well said, Usualy there is some trial and errror to finding the middle ground.
 I wish I would of come accross this topic on PL when I started my hunt 2 years ago. It definately would of saved me many pesos.
I guess one of my weaknesses is I tend to be a little too generous when I am in the presence of a beautiful latina.

Clint

[Sol]

... in response to So what's a guy to do?, posted by cdrab on Aug 19, 2001

Clint,

I'm in a financial situation where I'm neither rich nor poor and, given the tanking of the stock market I'm not eager to sell stock or cash out options at low prices to finance a luxurious courtship! So, I've had a conversation with my lady about my financial situation. I've made it absolutely clear that I will always take care of her and eventually of our children as well. Given this perspective my lady could care less if I wine and dine her. She wants me, and she wants a future with a man who will love her and take care of her and her future children. Having said that I did take her to two nice restaurants in Bogota and I'm bringing her a diamond ring so I'm certainly not a cheapskate.

One advantage to writing/phoning first is that you can put this on the table early on. What I've done on both my trips to Colombia is to ask the lady to help me plan a trip within my budget. I let her know that I want to spend all of my time with her and can she help to find a nice hotel and nice places to eat and visit that are not too expensive? I tell her that I'm budgeting for more trips to see her and ask her to engage me in saving money. It's worked great for me and shows the lady that I'm serious and disciplined enough that I can manage my finances, which translates into good husband material, for those who sincerely want that. I sincerely believe that the sincere women would rather be taken care of than spoiled. I think that's why good men who are non necessarily attractive can do well in Latin America - because the sincere women will go for the man who will make her feel good and who can provide for her. The ones mainly in it for the looks might not be able to discern a good provider from a poor one.

My guess is that the ones who are serious candidates will understand that you'd rather spend money on building a life together, on raising children (if that's what you want) and on your retirement. The ones who just want to party will drop you like a hot potato.

The first lady I went to see (in Medellin) did a very nice job of not picking a single expensive restaurant. She was more interested in me than in what I might buy her. My very special lady doesn't care where we eat either.

** It's the company that matters, not the cost! **

Sol

[cdrab]

... in response to Re: So what's a guy to do?, posted by Sol on Aug 19, 2001

Sounds like you have made some excellent choices and have found a good woman. Your a good example of having a plan and successfuly following it to harvest the benefits.

Good Luck
Clint

[Cali vet]

... in response to So what's a guy to do?, posted by cdrab on Aug 19, 2001

NEVER ask the girls where they want to eat. You tell them.