I just returned from 3 weeks in Brazil.

[HappyIdiot]

Hi Everyone,

I just returned from 3 weeks in Belem, Brazil where I visited a woman that I have been corresponding with (by mail, email, and phone) since March.  I think my trip was a success and we will continue to correspond until we are able to meet again.  Hopefully she will be able to get a visa to vist the US.

It is a very pleasant country, and I think it is a safe place to travel to.

If you are writing to, or plan to write to a woman, I'd like to offer you some feedback that I recieved from my friend.  She mentioned several things of interest.  One, the agency that she sent her letter to, LatinEuro (or one of several other domains, with the same website) may be a good service, but she did not get any letters for about a year (I'm assuming they didn't post her letter until then).  Also, the information is not updated.  So the age that you see, and the other information was only accurate as of the time the person sent the letter.  Also, although she is not longer interested in recieiving correspondence and has contacted them several times telling them this, by letter and email, they have not removed her ad from their site.  Additionally, she was not aware that her ad was going on the internet and thought it was going to be put into a catalog.  As far as the letters she recieved, I would like to offer you some examples of why she did not reply to some of them.  One correspondent wrote, something to the effect of, If you don't like my letter, please pass it on to someone who you think would.  This did not give her the feeling that the person was particularly interested in her, and no, she did not pass it on.  Another wrote, and included pictures of his house and car and talked about them in his introductory letter.  I do not know the exact words of the letter, but it left her with the feeling that the person wanted a maid rather than wife.  Again, she did not reply to this person either.  Several other letters offered what she considered to be insincere or unrealistic flattery.  For example, saying "You are perfect." to a person that you have only seen from a grainy photo on the internet.  I hope this will help as you craft your introductory letters.

From my side of it, I would say consider your odds a little and send out letters in batches until you get some prospects you are interested in.  If you are writing by mail it may take 3 weeks to get a letter to the person and 3 weeks to reply.  I tried to be very careful in not engaging in wishful thinking, and did not let momentum build as we corresponded.  We communicated and discussed with the goal of building a friendship.  My bottom line was I would not go to visit someone I did not completely believe was my friend.  Also, I would not visit if there were some conflicts that we could not resolve by correspondence.  These were unstated, but I made it very clear that I believe that part of a healthy relationship is a good friendship.

My experience in meeting was that this was the same person that I had grown to know.

Take care everyone, and I'll try to jump in on topics as they come up, if I can offer some useful advice.

[yc]

... in response to I just returned from 3 weeks in Brazil., posted by HappyIdiot on Aug 5, 2001

Hi HappyIdiot,

It is good to hear that your trip to Brazil went well.  I myself am planning to visit Brazil as well as Colombia, DR, and Honduras.  I have ordered some addresses from LatinEuro... 35 addresses to be exact.  Although Brazil accounted for most of these addresses, the remaining were of females in Honduras, DR, and Madagasscar.  I have not mailed any letters out yet, but will be doing so very soon.  Your pointers on letter writing was very helpful.  Luckily, none of the "Don't Do's" you mention applied to any of the letters I have put together.  I have a few questions I would like to ask.  What kind of a response factor should I expect to get?  I am expecting something of about 20% response... about 5-6 replys out of 35 letters mailed.  Is this a fairly accurate assumption?

[HappyIdiot]

... in response to Re: I just returned from 3 weeks in Braz..., posted by yc on Aug 6, 2001

Of the Latin Euro stuff, I sent out 30 or 35 letters and got back, I think 6.  Of those, one was a "late" reply that I recieved in July even though I had mailed the letters in March.  It was a nice letter but I somehow felt like, "Gee sorry your plan A didn't work out."  Also, everything was going well with the lady I met in Belem.  One of the other initial replys I recieved was from a woman that sent very bizarre emails, which I did not reply to as soon as I realized it was not a language problem.  Interestingly enough, 2 weeks later after I had not heard from her, I recieve an email from her that my virus scanner nailed.  Definately a wacko.  But I would say the other 5 were good, sincere prospects.

I'm not sure about your selection criteria, but when I was going through the Latin Euro website, I didn't select addresses where the person listed they were a student, or that they had a carreer goal of becoming an actress or something like that.  Also, I didn't consider the look at my chest or see my @ss hanging out pictures, my thinking being that if this is how you present yourself for a person you don't even know, what have you already done with the people you have run into.  I don't regret this based on the good quality responses that I did get.  Living here in Las Vegas, I'm very puzzled by people that will go such lengths just to chase around.  If I want that, why travel 3,000 miles when I can travel 1 mile?

Good luck in your search and I wish you great success.

[yc]

... in response to Yes, about 20% is what I got., posted by HappyIdiot on Aug 6, 2001

Thanks for the info.  As far as my selection criteria goes, it is very similar to yours.  I did select some that were students, but they accounted for no more than 5 out of 35 addresses.  I shied away from the actress, model and career seeking ones, the exceptions being those already with or seeking(student) careers in teaching or something like that.  The flamboyant and flashy types was out of the questions for the reasons you mention.  I also tried to keep the age factor at or above 25 y/o.

I notice that a large percentage of the females listed they like dancing.  I like dancing myself but I am not looking for the partying club type.  From my understanding dancing is a favorite past time in LA, much more so than here in the States.  What is your take on this?

[HappyIdiot]

... in response to Re: Yes, about 20% is what I got., posted by yc on Aug 7, 2001

I didn't select students because I was concerned that they had not worked at a job yet in their life and so didn't have a realistic idea of what it was like to work for a living.  Also, saying I want to be a movie star or actress, seemed to be unrealistic to me and I didn't want to someone's attempted fantasy escape from reality.  Mainly I didn't want the conflict with someone that didn't understand the mystery that sometimes you have to work, and that thing called a job can make you tired.

I also tried to keep the age within 10 years, with maybe a couple years to flex on it.  My thinking was, and still is, that over time you gain wisdom about life and that wisdom is something that you contribute to a relationship.  I see it as having a lot of value.  I feel very fortunate to find someone that is 31, I'm 37, so that the relationship has a lot of balance to it.  I think there will be enough strain with someone uprooting to live in another country and culture, not to mention the usual man/woman stuff.

As far as women listing they liked to dance, I'd think it could really vary.  But I think of how often I liked to go at different ages and thought, depending on the age listed, do I want to do that again?  The ads seem like so little information to decide about someone on, but there are so many prospects that I'd bet you'll likely meet someone that you really click with.  I hope so.

Oh, one thing that might come up for you.  How to talk about this whole thing to your friends.  I didn't wait till just now and then suddenly disappear for 3 weeks then hang up a bunch of photos in my place of me and my friend.  When I started I mentioned to some friends, I'm going to "Make a pen pal over the internet."  This seemed to be easy to understand and is a lot less loaded than something that might become "Internet Marriage" or "Marriage Tour" or "Mail Order Bride".  I made sure as things progressed to say things so that my friends were not surprised later also.  Like, "Oh, I met a really nice lady from XYZ city, that I'm writing to over the internet."  or "Oh, I got to talk on the phone with SoAndSo that I've been writing to."  That way when I said, "I'd really like to meet SoAndSo, so I'm planning a trip to Brazil" there was no sudden surprise.  It was nice when I got there too, because I had talked about my friends to her in my correspondence, so when I sent off a postcard, she sent one off too.

I hope you do meet someone nice in Brazil, from my experience, it is a wonderful country.

[yc]

... in response to Well, our reasons might be a little diff..., posted by HappyIdiot on Aug 7, 2001

Well I understand and concur with your reasoning on the student work issue thing.  It seems quite logical to me.  I did not give much thought to the issue because the females I picked to write to were either working already or going to school in addition to work.  I am pretty sure or at least I hope that they have a firm understanding of the importances work.  My reasoning for not wanting a career oriented person has to do with my views on family.  Certain careers demands heavy sacrifices and using that comes at the expense of the family.  I do not want that for our family.  I am looking for someone who wants and values having a husband and family over a career.  As you have stated, there will be enough strain by being in a foreign country and culture.  If we both have this understanding that is one conflict to worry about.  I am not against career oriented or working women.  I just do not believe the welfare of the family should not take a back seat to a job.

As far as the age figure goes, I chose 25 y/o and older because hopefully she would have mostly matured by this point.  I am 34 y/o... well I will be this month.  25 y/o's and older would fall within the 10 year ago gap.

How do you tell your friends about what you are considering or planning on doing?  You really hit on a good topic for that one.  In all honesty, I have not said a word to any of my friends.  I do not think they would understand.  They think it is very easy to meet women.  What they do not realize is meeting women is not the issue.  Meeting one that is worth marrying is.  They believe you have to keep looking until you come across the right one.  How long and hard should a person look?  They do not understand that I have become weary of search.  I only have so much energy left.  I think it would be better spend looking else where the pastures are greener.  Believe me, my expectation is not to write a handful of letters then fly off somewhere, wherever that might be, and get married.  That in itself is a formula for disaster.  I would imagine that choosing this method to meet a woman that that last statement is very much possible... in other words watch yourself.  How do you tell your friends never the less you family that you met someone by ordering her address from a marriage or introduction agency?

[JeffA]

... in response to Re: Well, our reasons might be a little ..., posted by yc on Aug 7, 2001

Perhaps I'm simply arrogant, but I'm proud to tell folks my novia and I met thru the internet.  I have been through the mill trying to find the right woman for marriage, and if I found her this way, let people talk about 'mail-order brides' or some other rubbish.  I'm not getting married for them...

Family?  my family has waited for 20 years for me to get married, and many are trying to learn spanish now to try to ease the culture shocks that are coming.

In terms of friends, If they can't accept it, I guess htey aren't very good friends, IMO.  I think we have enough to worry about... and let family, co-workers, etc. worry about whatever they need. good luck!

[yc]

... in response to telling friends and family, posted by JeffA on Aug 7, 2001

Thanks Jeff!  Your advice is greatly appreciated.  I can see that you have a very supportive family.  Eventhough I have not told my family what I am planning on doing, I do not believe they would be very supportive... especially my mom.  As far as my brothers and sisters goes, well that a mixed bag altogether.  Some would be supportive, other would more less be.  I am basing that on how they view Hispanics in general.  I come from a very irrational family to say the least.

I understand in general, that family is very important in latinas.  I am sure, should I find someone, that this would present a problem.  The question is, how big of a problem would this be for her?  I do not know how receptive my family would be, but I have taken into consideration of moving to her country if necessary.  I am very adaptive to other cultures.

As far as friends goes, IMO they can take it or leave it.  But I believe they would very receptive to her, much more so than my family would.  Most of my acquaintances I consider to be my friends are from other countries.  I just think they would have a hang-up with the method I chose to meet her... Mail Order Agency.

[Randy G]

... in response to Re: I just returned from 3 weeks in Braz..., posted by yc on Aug 6, 2001

yc:  Funny you should mention Madagascar. Last year, I was bored and perusing an interesting African agency website that I had stumbled on. Most of the girls were from Ethiopia, and  some were very beautiful. But there were a couple of women from Madagascar who were very pretty, with kind of a Latin look to them.
  Madagascar is about the farthest place on the earth from where I live, but why don't you include it on your travel itinerary so you can report back to the guys who might want to look elsewhere...RG

[yc]

... in response to Madagascar women..., posted by Randy G on Aug 6, 2001

Hi Randy,

I am taking it into serious consideration, but as you have stated Madagasscar is very remote.  It almost seems like traveling to Tibet.  I have not looked into costs of flights to Madagasscar, but telephone calls are expensive.  I have seen rates as high as $2.37/min.  I can see letter writing will be big on the list, since email is not very wide spread.  As far as attractive women goes, 80% to 90% of the ones I have seen so far are attractive to very attractive.  Should this interest workout I will report back for those that might be interested.  BTW, what was the African website you was perusing?

[Randy G]

... in response to Re: Madagascar women..., posted by yc on Aug 7, 2001

yc: There seem to be many girls from remote places like Madagascar, French Guiana, Cameroon, Senegal and some very attractive women of varied skin color from Trinidad & Tobago...a very interesting site...Randy

[NW Jim]

... in response to Madagascar women..., posted by Randy G on Aug 6, 2001

YC & Randy,
Yeah I've seen some really attractive ladies listed from Madagascar. The other downside besides travel distance is having to learn French. I have enough problems trying to learn Spanish. Good luck.  NW Jim

[yc]

... in response to Re: Madagascar women...speak French, posted by NW Jim on Aug 6, 2001

NW Jim, I was not aware of that.  Most of the Madagascan women I have seen posted stated they spoke English.  I guess I was in my Trinidad mode of thinking.  Trinidad, though being considered part of LA, the women always state that they speak english or english is the language of their country.  I assume the same applied to Madagascar... BIG MISTAKE.

After seeing your post, I looked up info on Madagascar and you are correct.  It was a French territory up until 1958, where afterward it became a republic of the French Community.  In 1975 the island was renamed from Malagasy Republic to Madagascar.

[Felix]

... in response to Re: Re: Madagascar women...speak French, posted by yc on Aug 7, 2001

Madagascar: women speak French.

  Just want to say that you will not have many problems in communicating with women from Madagascar even if you do not know French. In Madagascar like in other african French speaking countries,while French is a main language used in education, English is taught from grade 9th until grade 12th as a second language. So, even if the girl can't speak english fluently, she will do her best to understand you. Remember also that French and English are latine languages and that many words in English come from French.
  Another good thing is that it's easy for someone who knows French to learn English. This has been my case when I came to USA.
  For those who are interested in women from cameroun, I would like to let them know that Cameroun  is the only bilingual country in Africa. English and French are both official languages. Many people speak fluently the two languages.
  Felix.