God and Latin women

[Raptor]

I wanted to relate this story to you guys.

I just had to turn down a guy who asked for a very nice Colombian ladies address.
The lady is first rate and she's going to make a great wife for some lucky guy.

The guy is young, good looking and has a good job.
The problem is the guy is an atheist.  When I told the lady about it she said flat out No!

She wanted nothing to do with him if they did not share an interest in God.

I told her I respected her moral standing and have give her address to another guy.

Interesting but she told me that that would be a real deal breaker for her friends as well.  I told her that this was uncommon in all the American men that I know.

Seems like it's as high on their priority list as it is with many American men.

Interesting............

[HappyIdiot]

... in response to God and Latin women, posted by Raptor on Aug 14, 2001

Maybe it left her with too big of a question mark as to the person's character.  Or maybe it caused her to think that the person would not likely be respectful or tolerant of religious differences.  I'd be interested in hearing, if you could relate what her reasoning was.

As a non catholic, I made it real clear I was not interested in converting as part of a "deal".  But also I made it very clear that I would have respect for differences and I would expect the same.

If someone expected me to adopt religious beliefs that I did not feel sincere about, I would see this as a huge red flag.  By this I mean, if there was an expectation that I convert my religion even if I did not feel a sincere belief.

It is after all a screening process.

[Patrick]

... in response to Just a guess..., posted by HappyIdiot on Aug 14, 2001

I was raised a Mormon, but fell away from the church while studying to be an engineer.  My wife's Catholic and I will most likely be converting soon.  I'll do it in order to be married in the Catholic church.  Though my wife is not a strong Catholic (we go to church maybe once every 2 months or so) she does get pressure (mainly from her mother) about "living in sin."  Since our wedding was not a Catholic one, her church says she is not really married and she does not accept communion.  Church can still be a strong factor in a woman's (or man's) life, even if they don't practice as fervently as some.

I plan on telling a priest that I would like to join, but that I don't feel that any church has a monopoly on God's authority.  I don't know how well that's going to go over, but I've also got a previous marriage to contend with.  Perhaps because my first wife and I were married in a drive through Vegas chapel (okay, not quite drive through, but it was a Vegas wedding mill) I was not technically even married the first time and won't have to worry about the old Catholic no divorce rule.

Good luck on the no conversion rule.  Everyone's different and your wife may not care at all about your religion, but in times of emotional trouble, church can become very important in a woman's life and she just might decide that she wants you to convert after all.  Fortunately for me, I don't believe there is any one "true" church and converting doesn't bother me.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Just a guess..., posted by Patrick on Aug 15, 2001

A conversion of the type you are describing would most likely be frowned upon. You can get away with it in most Parish RCIA programs but in a sense it would not be keeping with the spirit of a true conversion.  On the other hand you could have a valid marriage (in the eyes of the Catholic Faith) without the need to convert (your wife could take Communion, your mother in-law would be happy). It would require that your first marriage be considered null and then you and your wife would need a dispensation from the ecclesiatical authority (local bishop) to marry validly. You may be in a catch 22 however as the church may consider your Vegas experience a valid marriage between non-believers.  In this case, a conversion might be the only way to anull the first marriage (see my explanation to Craig in a post below).

El Diablo

[Craig]

... in response to Re: Just a guess..., posted by Patrick on Aug 15, 2001

Patrick I don't profess to be an expert on Catholic canon law, but I will tell you that I believe that you will have to obtain an annulment front the Catholic church, in order to marry in the church. This should be no problem because you stated that you were married in a Las Vegas (drive through) chapel. Since the Catholic church doesn't recognize your wedding in Vegas as legit, you can obtain an annulment, (through the Catholic church) and now marry in the Catholic church. This process is fairly easy, because of the non-Catholic wedding. When it does become complicated, is when a man and a women, who were married in the Catholic church, attempt to divorce. There are only a few circumstances in which the church will grant the annulment

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Just a guess..., posted by Craig on Aug 16, 2001

Patrick's situation may be more complicated than you think but nevertheless it might be possible.  He and his wife should consult with a canon lawyer.   I consulted with a canon laywer at my diocese when I was considering marriage to a calena who had been married once before.  I  called the diocese and with a few transfers I found my way to someone with a lot more knowledge than your typical parish Priest.  

The first complication is that Patrick's first marriage may in fact be considered valid.  It's only when a non-apostate Catholic gets married in Vegas, that the marriage is not considered valid.  Two non-Catholics getting married in Vegas are presumed to have a valid but non-sacramental marriage.  There may be an out in the case where the non-Catholic converts, in these cases an annulment might be granted under a section of canon law called the Pauline Privilage.  Anyway, I only know these things from my own investigations and so it's always better to get it from a legal expert.

If your reading this Patrick, consider calling a canon lawyer at your local diocese.  You don't need to give them your name and they will give you a heads up on the process and any complications.  You would need to give them a bit of history however. They are church employess, so it won't set you back a dime either.

El Diablo

[Raptor]

... in response to Just a guess..., posted by HappyIdiot on Aug 14, 2001

Her reasoning was that an atheist is a person who has no moral base from which to live life.

I think she sees an atheist as a person who is lost.

That's what I got from her.

BTW, I agree with her.  Just MHO.

[HappyIdiot]

... in response to Re: Just a guess..., posted by Raptor on Aug 15, 2001

I think lack of moral base is very excellent way to describe a large problem with our society.  Well, she sounds like she'll make someone a good wife in the future with her excellent judgement.

[El Diablo]

... in response to God and Latin women, posted by Raptor on Aug 14, 2001


Your report is interesting to me.  I've met at least a hundred women in the agencies of Cali.  I could count on one or possibly two hands the number of women who have actually mentioned the importance of their Faith in their lives.  If anything, for me being a practicing Catholic has been much more of a hindrance than a help.

I think you may find more practicing Catholic or practicing Protestant women through correspondence than through the agency experience however.

El Diablo

[Craig]

... in response to Re: God and Latin women, posted by El Diablo on Aug 14, 2001

.The Catholic culture or upbringing is very strong in Cali, even if appearances seem to dictate otherwise. A Catholic priest carry's a lot of weight in Latin culture. Just watch your novia when she is in the presence of a priest, and watch her reactions. Many drift away from the church, but in their hearts and minds still hold dear, the beliefs which have been handed down over 2000 years ago. It may not be a severe hindrance to be a non-Catholic, but it's a definite plus if you are. Also keep in mind that even if her faith seems to you not to be of much importance, it will if you have children and the time comes to introduce them to a faith of choice. Or should I say her choice

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Craig on Aug 14, 2001

The birth of children, the death of a loved one, or any other strong emotional event can trigger their religious beliefs to come to the forefront.  I've lived it and can attest to the validity of your point.

[Raptor]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Craig on Aug 14, 2001

Great post!

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Craig on Aug 14, 2001

95%+ of the latin women (and men) are Catholic. If you ever find one that claims to be "Christian", you can bet your last dollar that she will be what is commonly refered to in the USA as 'born again', 'fundamentalist' or 'evangelical'.....so now you know what to look for (or avoid, depending on your preference). But I would dare say that which ever way they are (Catholic or Christian), they are a lot more sincere about it than Mr. Smith is giving them credit for.  They might not inflict (is that the right term?) their relegion on you, but for sure they won't give it up, and they WILL pass it on to their children.

[Canadian Guy 31]

... in response to Re: God and Latin women, posted by El Diablo on Aug 14, 2001

Hi El Diablo,

I think that certain Roman Catholic teachings could have become a hinderance to many girls in Columbia due to the fact that many Roman Catholic teachings have become more incorrect over the last few hundread years then teachings that are actually based in the Bible. Therefore as you said, many of these girls do not claim outwardly any strong specific faith anymore perhaps out of their own confusion that they found in studying the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. This is of course a theological issue but it can be dealt with.

If these girls are personally seeking to know God more and reading the Bible themselves to find out if their church's teachings are true or false, they can find out how to deal with these kinds of hinderances that have confused them. They can then move on to be more clear in their own beliefs and understandings about God, their purpose and meaning for their life. This will lead more specifically to their being more outspoken about what kind of man they should seek to marry in terms of their beliefs about God.

For an Athiest however, any considerations for even the most basic questions in life such as seeking to know who God is?, why was I created?, why get married?, etc. do not exist in what he wants to accept in his thinking. Why would an athiest want to be married in the first place anyways?, why not be just like the animals? To him he thinks he is no different morally then an animal or a speck of dust in terms of purpose or meaning anyways, so why put on this act and get married?

How can anyone like this woman Raptor mentioned, base a lifelong relationship with someone who basically believes in no meaning, no purpose, no morality, no truth, and no absolutes for anyone, including absolute rules that guide and determine marriage? She made an honorable decision to remain true to one of the absolute and most basic principles that all mankind should hold. I wish her all the best for her future.

Canadian Guy 31

[Craig2]

... in response to Re: Re: God and Latin women, posted by Canadian Guy 31 on Aug 14, 2001

Dear Canadian guy... While it's unfortunate and truly sad for a person to wonder through life without knowing that God is real. It's also unfortunate that you insist on bashing Catholic's. Nock it off...Especially when you know so little about so much!