K1 or Spousal how do they stack up ???

[Houndog]

There is some interesting talk down below about "Getting to Know Each Other" and whether to marry(spousal) or use the K1(fiancee)visa. Tai brought up some very valid points IMO, and no one has talked much about the differences in a very long while. Any one want care to comment, make comparisons, give opinions???

Regards, HD

[cjweir]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

what is first the chicken or the egg? anyway, whether you get married first or do a k-1, the same issue applies. how much time is spent together, getting to know your new significant other. obviously, time and fianacial concerns weigh heavy on many people, to travel to whatever country is in question.I realize that travel to columbia is alot more expensive than to dominican republic, if i booked flights in advance i could get airfare for $300 RT to santo domingo, i don't think that is as likely to columbia. anyway
the "getting to know each other" part is real, and whether you look at the 90 day period as a try out or not, is irrelevant. i don't want to sound like i devalue the seriousness of marriage, but in the case of a someone making a mistake getting married to someone you don't know, well just remember you can get a divorce in 6 weeks in the DR for $400, and it is valid in the states. actually the wife does not have to even know about it until it is done. but either way i would recommend a pre-nuptial if you have assets to protect.

[Viajero]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

Apparently I was in error regarding some of the details of a K-1 vs. spouse visa, and I was dutifully corrected. That's what's great about this board - free exchange of info without undue criticism. This is a terrific discussion, this has been a good thread, too. Thanks to everyone!

[thomas]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

For the K1 filer whos fiance wants to marry in front of her family(very understandable) why dont they just have a ceremony there? Lets say your K1 is approved and you go down to help your fiance come into the US just stay a couple days and have a ceremony/reception for her friends and family. After all just because you have the ceremony your not legally binded until the paperwork is done. If you are truly serious about marrying her and you jsut think the K1 is more convenient I think this is a good compromise. If you are not sure I wouldnt advise this. Imagine some poor girl coming back home after 3 months of it not working out after all her family went to her reception. Anyway am I way off base here? has anyone actually done this and how did it work out?

[JunFan]

... in response to K1 compromise?, posted by thomas on Jul 26, 2001

That's exactly what I did. We had an engagement reception in BQ at the Hotel Prado. It is amazing how cheap you can do it down there compared to in the US. Mine was for$1600 mas o menos. That was four 6 servers, the room, buffet, soft drinks, 12 bottles of Chevis, 12 bottles of champagne, florist, and band (a keyboard player who sang 'Let It Be 20x ..lol). There were 50 Colombians there, mostly her family with 8-10 friends.  It was probably some of the best money I have ever spent in my life....pics on my web page if you care.

Mike
www.sparhard.com/colombia.htm

[DallasTexas]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

I went thru this question as well as the K-1 was not an option for my wife.

(1) She had a good job which as you know is not easy to get in Columbia. They were not going to let her leave for 3 months and come back if it didn't work out. There were 25 people in line for her job within 3 hours of giving her notice.  If she had come to the states and it did not work out where is she then.

(2) My wife while not a religious zealout has her own moral standards which do not include shacking up for 3 months.

(3) Her family was very supportive of marriage but would not have been supportive of shacking up for the same reasons.

(4) The K-1 has minimal exposure for both parties but is much safer for the man not the woman if it doesn't work out.  

My bottom line is if your not sure DON'T GET MARRIED if you need more time then you should take it.  

As always this comes with a disclaimer that this message can not be used in conjunction with any other promotinal offer and is void where prohibited by law.

[Anony mouse]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

Houndog
Credit where credit is due: Great thread!
muddslinger (below) mentioned men who want a "90 day fling".  If a man only wants a "90 day fling" this question is irrelevant.  He would never chose to marry the woman, he would only want a K-1 visa.  The question of K-1 versus spousal visa is only relevant to a man who is seriously looking for a wife.
Here are some important points to consider:
1 - If you want to marry first and then apply for the visa in her country you have to sign the support agreement before they will grant the visa.  The support agreement obligates  you to support her at 125% of the poverty level for at least 10 years or until she becomes a citizen or until you die.  That last item there is not too comforting to me. ;-)  Divorce doesn't end your obligation.
2 - If you marry in another country it can make getting a divorce much more difficult and expensive.  See H2-oh's infamous story.
3 - If you can't spend a lot of time with the woman in her country the K-1 visa will give you more time to get to know her.  It's not a bad idea to know someone well before you marry them.
4 - Contrary to what viajero posted, the K-1 is not quicker anymore.  It used to be quicker, but now if you marry in Colombia and go to the embassy you can have her here within a few weeks.  Some of the men on this board have done that.  Try doing that with a K-1 via.  The average time is 90 days.
For me, I prefer waiting for a K-1 visa.  My concern is not my level of commitment, it's the woman's.  I'm not going to change my mind.  The K-1 visa gives the woman a few more months to change her mind (which women sometimes do) before I have to sign the support agreement.  If you think you can read a woman's mind well enough to be sure that she won't change her mind after what are these typically rapid courtships, you a better man than me.
Your mileage may vary.  Not FDIC-insured.

[Houndog]

... in response to Chew on this, posted by Anony mouse on Jul 26, 2001

**. The question of K-1 versus spousal visa is only relevant to a man who is seriously looking for a wife.**

Yes I agree...and much to the chagrin of Patrick and a few others I have targeted some who appear to be looking for something other than a wife in the traditional and honorable sense.

Like JimC I have a low tolerance threshold for guys that aren't that serious about realistic traditional type marriages, or as El D. called them, the Club Med bunch trying to hide amongst those who truly are seeking the last wife, not simply the next wife.

And the REAL ISSUE...has never been their position...but their honesty or lack of about their true intentions. Because it distorts the validity of a K1 visa. Which I'm using. I don't think it's neccesarily better or worse and won't work for some. In my case it worked out exactly as it was intended to. And yes my wife and her family raised strong objections. But in the end thru compromise and trust we went K1.

HD

[Pete E]

... in response to K1 or Spousal how do they stack up , posted by Houndog on Jul 26, 2001

HD,
I pulled this up from down below,a post I did to Diego.I know a spousl visa is smart for the guy.I was just pointing out some issues with it.

Pete

Diego,
In my post above I was picturing getting married there.There is also the fiance visa route,also sometimes refered to as the 90 day test drive.This is what I was thinking when I went down.Why not take the 90 days to really check out the girl,the relationship and also her reaction to the US before actually getting married to her?
It seems like a great idea,and a safe course for a guy.There are some drawbacks.
1.Many of these girls,or their families,do not want their daughter to go shack up(sorry about that term if it offends) with a guy while he is trying to decide if he wants her or not.
2.The spousal visa process is much cleaner and quicker.You can get it 2 weeks after you are married(some guys have reported quicker recently).She gets her green card about 6 weeks after she gets here,and can get her social security card 2 weeks after getting here.She is a conditinal permanent resident,with most of the rights of a citizen.2 years later you(the husband)file a paper,the #751 sticks in my mind ,and she becomes a permanent legal resident.I am told you don't even have to go in,just file the paper.I need to find out for sure.Our 2 years are up 2/5/2002 and I need to file 90 days before that.
3.She may need the commitment of marriage to come here.She can have her wedding with her family and friends and go off to the states a married woman,not just going to live with a guy.There is alot of pride and honor in latino cultures,this is important to her and her family.
4.Without the commitment of marriage you may not make it through the tough times you are almost certain to have.Its easier to just say"hasta la vista baby".Our marriage might not have survived our early problems if we hadn't yet made a commitment of marriage.
I didn't think it would be appropriate,in the case of my wife to ask her to do a fiance visa.She told me later there is no way she would have done that.
I don't mean to critisize people for whom the fiance visa has felt appropriate and I know it has worked for alot of you.I think it is overwelmingly to the mans advamtage.
One other note.I talked about the 90 day test drive,but you really get a 2 years test drive.If the marriage does not at least 2 years she is supposed to be sent back.I know that can get complicated,but it is a huge protection for a guy,if you needed it.
No offence intended here to anyone who has chosen the fiancee visa route.

Pete

[jim c]

... in response to Re: K1 or Spousal how do they stack up ?..., posted by Pete E on Jul 26, 2001

Well Pete I am with you. If you respect the woman you intend to spend your life with, you need to respect her family, her morals and how she is perceived by her culture and our culture. Can you imagine the thoughts of an AW  " "she came here and shacked up with him to get a green card"
    Too many of us are not sure what we want. I am guilty of living with a Calena and breaking off the relationship. I believe I had valid reasons and without those would have married her, but I am still haunted by her statement after it was over " You leave me no dignity". Six months later she is in the US, with someone else, so maybe I was right.  

   I personally believe that we need to spend time and decide. Not have a test drive to convince us and destroy the dignity and reputation of a person we professed to love. I think there is a big problem with thinking on this board, when we consistantly look for escape loopholes such as the ninety day test drive and the two year after marriage confirmation. If you marry an american woman you certainly are married. There should be more responsibility for our actions and there are no guarantees in marriage. If you are not sure then don't go there. jim c

[Anony mouse]

... in response to Re: Re: K1 or Spousal how do they stack ..., posted by jim c on Jul 26, 2001

Jim

You wrote "I am guilty of living with a Calena and breaking off the relationship".  
Questions:
Did you bring her to the US on a K-1 visa or did you "shack up" with her in Colombia?  
And while you're at it, is one any worse than the other morally?  
And did the "valid reasons" that you had for ending the relationship include unfaithfullness on her part?

Mr. Mouse

[jim c]

... in response to Clarification please, posted by Anony mouse on Jul 27, 2001

Dear Cheesey  
I only pointed out my past to show what feelings can result from a breakup with a Calena.  The reasons for our break up are none of your business. If you want to live with your fly open thats your problem. I have no reason to air my personal relationships for voyuers. As to,Is one any worse than the other. Cause a person to give up their job, sell their personal belongings and move to a strange country where the man has all the power to reject you just because he changed his mind. Then return home, face all your friends and relatives, to no job or possessions. Morally give me a break. This is not about morals its about respect, concern for a persons life and the realization that these women have lives and are people, not furniture. The world does not revolve around  some gringo's need to have a bedmate. By the way mousey why don't you come out of your hole? I am in the sunlight. Whats your problem cat got your tongue. Are you the anonamouse that sends money to Mexico or some other rodent. jim c

[Anony mouse]

... in response to Re: Clarification please, posted by jim c on Jul 27, 2001

Dear grumpy guy

I think I understand why you don't want to answer those two simple questions.  The answers would probably detract from your credibility when you criticize others that petition for a K-1.  It sounds like a case of excessive pride coupled with a guilty conscience is what put you on your high horse.  Now you're on a crusade to criticize anyone who wants to bring a woman here on a K-1.  We're not all selfish sex-fiends that want to exploit these women.  I'm glad you express so much respect for these women in your letters.  I hope that's how you treat the next one.  I don't have a problem with you expressing your opinion that it is better to marry her than to go K-1, but I've seen you rip into enough people on this forum that I'll rip into you when you deserve it, and you do now.
Mr. Mouse wishes to remain anonymouse and I will not disclose those reasons just as you won't disclose your escapades.  FYI, I have petitioned for one K-1 visa in my life and I am married to that woman.  One of the main reasons I wanted to go K-1 was to have more confidence that my wife wasn't a "green shark" as you call them (a green shark is a woman marrying not for love but to obtain a green card).  How else you gonna know?  Until they're here you may see a completely different side of them.  Perhaps if we were all perfect police detectives like you we would know, but we aren't.  Anybody who marries a woman in her country is taking a big risk.  Sure the woman is taking a big risk, too.  If you want to be noble and take all of the risk yourself, be my guest.  But don't skewer those of us who want more assurance that she's sincere.  Our motives may be a little more pure than yours anyway.  I've never shacked up with anyone that I didn't marry.  And this IS about morals as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe you should re-examine your own.
What do we call it when someone criticizes others for something that he himself does?  Somebody help me here.  What is the word I'm looking for?  Hypochondriac?  Hippopotamus?  Hypothetical?

Mr. Mouse

[jim c]

... in response to At a loss for words, posted by Anony mouse on Jul 27, 2001

Only a rat would ask a person to discuss the sexual fidelity of a woman on a public forum or a 15 year old computor geek that hides with the mushrooms in his room and makes up his life on line. If you are married why are you concerned with "those of us that want more assurance that she is sincere"== sounds like present tense to me, not past tense.
     The problem I have is that there seems to be no concept of what risks the woman takes when she agrees to accept the K1 process. All I hear is gee I have to be responsible for her.

     Living with some one, with her familys blessing, after a year of courtship is different than causing a person to give up culture, family, friends, employment and possibly a future after a few meetings to find out if you want her. I was the K1. I went there. I sold my furniture, left my friends and was told I was crazy.  My problem was with a child that resented any man in her mothers life and was sucessful in dividing us.  

Tell the truth rat which of the rodents are you? possibly one I insulted in the past. We are proud of you, you only shack up with those you marry or is it no one will shack up with you unless you marry them. You are a sneak that would insinuate infidelity or have the need to know about a relationship's most private information. get out of the sewer and enjoy your own marriage if you have one.  jim c

[Anony Mouse]

... in response to Re: At a loss for words, posted by jim c on Jul 27, 2001

Jim

Yours is truly a sad story.  I am truly sorry for both you and the lady.  It appears that you are flesh and blood, after all.  I am hoping that your experiences can help you to show a little more compassion to the others that post their opinions and experiences on this board.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with them and criticizing their opinions and actions.  But I believe it's wrong to ridicule or belittle the person themselves.  You are not perfect either.  You have some good values and I believe you could change some false perceptions and bad habits if you wouldn't beat them up first.
Back to the theme of this thread, I don't believe it makes any difference whether you live with the woman here or there.  If you were living with her there, she still told you "You leave me with no dignity".  And I don't think that your experience argues for a wedding instead of a K-1 visa.  Would it have been better to live together in matrimony before you discovered your problems?  Maybe the ideal would have been to date longer and discover those problems before you ever lived together, but many of us do not have the opportunity or the resources to pursue that ideal with a woman in another country.   And even if we do our hearts may not let us wait.  It appears that yours wouldn't.
IMHO there is no right or wrong answer to this question.  Each couple must decide this for themselves.  I won't ridicule those that say marriage before visa is right and living with the woman under a K-1 visa is wrong.  They shouldn't ridicule those who feel the opposite either.  Now maybe it's time for Houndog or I to start a thread asking if it's better to look for a foreign bride with children or without children.

Mr. Mouse

P.S. To Houndog:  It's Anony with a "y" not Anona with 2 "a"s.  I've registered the name now so that no one else can besmirch my reputation and I claim all the letters on this page by Anony Mouse.