Hey LP

[thesearch]

This is in response to your response to dandy below. Thought that I would put it on it's own.

LP, the way that I see it, there is always going to be an insane nature to all of this that is simply not going to go away. If we throw out all the ruskies that want a green card and the gentlemen who can not get to first base with women at home and just look at the rest - it is still the same -- an insane crap shoot.

I don't know but, something tells me that even if you make five trips you really do not get to know this lady well enough nor her you to justify marriage as most outside of the MOB scene would see it. Correspondence and phone calls? These also can only allow you to only know so much.

IMHO, none of this will really tell you if the two of you are compatible. Only co habitation in the trenches of life will reveal this from my experience and that just ain't gonna happen for most without getting married. So, the way I see it ---- it is always  going to be a road of risk.

So LP, by the nature of the beast you are always going to be able to say -"Are you crazy or what?" You will be singing the same song as the tune of the MOB scene will always invite the lyrics of question about all of this. So, you have a permanent job so to speak LOL.

Why would someone take the risk? We have heard them all or perhaps most of them. There are so many.

First of all, a very important point, with a divorce rate of 50% already here in the USA the risk of divorce and its expense seems to be dwarfed or at least diminished greatly. I mean heck at Normandy Beach it did not make much difference whether you were the first or the twelth to jump out of that amphibius landing vehicle and face the onslaught of gun fire. Some made and others did not.

I mean people who have taken their time to make sure they are right for each other every day stand in line at the court houses to battle it out. The only safe road (if there is one with women LOL - only joking ladies) is to never to get married (not joking about this however).  

The bottom line as far as I see it is that a guy can just simply get prettier, younger and usually a much better attitude in a woman by going to the FSU.

Now you ask why would anyone do this? LP -- you answered this question yourself in one of your well worded posts of the past about how the world has been shaped, wars etc at times from the what was that term you used - slipped me brain at the moment - the one that Patrick asked what it was about --- anyway you know what I am referring to. So, if wars etc can be a result as well as sorts of odd behavior---taking a risk with a lady from the FSU is not a big deal in the scheme of things.

Now, your perspective is a bit tainted as I would envision it as you have your pilot groupies who keep showing up and my call is LP ain't a gonna be getting married at all if he does not have to.

So, naturally, this is not going to be a risk you would be very likely to take. I mean, it would have to be one hot lady and a weak moment in your life for you to be saying "I Do" with a ruskie and while you were signing the papers you would most likely be saying to yourself "LP what in the he!! are you doing." My prediction is the day you get married is the day the unit does not work. Now you keep these boys in line now. I mean if your not going to do it - who is right LOL But hey, I like your more diplomatic assasinations but I know that takes a lot of restraint.

So, let the boys have their fun. After all we really do not  know the success rate of all of this as compared to the accepted method of getting married.

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Hey LP, posted by thesearch on Feb 25, 2003

Just want to say that I agree with the idea that international marriage is a high risk undertaking - even for those who do things reasonably right.  I have been married to an FSU woman for almost 4 years and we recently separated.  My wife was already living in the USA when I met her.  (By virtue of the fact that I met her here, I did not have the risk of determining whether she was after a plane ticket to the US under any circumstances.)  With 20/20 hindsight, I am not sure that I would have done too many things differently during our courtship, and yet things haven't worked out.

My wife is a quality person (probably better than I deserve!) and definately is not a scammer.  I did not marry a horror story.  We remain good friends, and I continue to provide help to her and her son.  Although we lived together for 4 months prior to marrying, we didn't know each other well enough.  Of course, we were both on our best dating behavior during these months.  

During our marriage we never fought or argued, but there wasn't much passion after the initial honeymoon period - more like big brother and little sister.  (There is a 12 year age difference between us.)  She has never adapted well to  US life, and prefers to live as a Russian in Brooklyn (one of the negatives about living so close to such a large FSU community).  She has never made much of an attempt to make any American friends and her english skills remain only rudimentary after 4 1/2 years in the US.  It is clear that she would prefer to live in her country, but due to economic considerations she will probably remain here.  She has become more openly materialistic since living in the US.

The fact is that even when a man marries a good woman, you can not predict how things will work out with great certainty.  Perhaps your wife may adapt well, or she may not.  She may change in ways that you are not expecting - some of my wife's friends have embraced many of the AW traits that many of us are looking to avoid in a wife.  Candidly, among my wife's friends, I haven't seen any AM/RW marriages that have survived.  While you can take steps to reduce the risks, as you say this is still an "insane crapshoot".

[thesearch]

... in response to Re: Hey Search, posted by Jersey Mike on Feb 26, 2003

Sorry to hear about all that. Life is not always easy. So, are you still in the market to get back with her at this point? If not or such does not work out, would you consider finding another local lady or  going over and taking a second chance on another woman from the FSU?

[Dan]

... in response to Re: Hey Search, posted by Jersey Mike on Feb 26, 2003

Mike,

Your story saddens me. It seems clear that you had great hopes and dreams with your wife that have been left unfulfilled - and yet, you remain balanced and reasonable about the outcome and you are obviously not embittered.

I wish you, and your wife (ex-wife?) the best - and I encourage your contributions to the board. You quite obviously have a great deal of valuable insights to offer to readers on this board.

Please stick around and 'pipe-up' once in a while --smile--.

- Dan

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: Hey Search, posted by Jersey Mike on Feb 26, 2003

Anybody could be forgiven for thinking you've been used, what with her splitting so soon after her change of status, but isn't it usual to change status after two years marriage and not four?

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Gosh, posted by Pordzhik on Feb 26, 2003

Pordzhik,
Sorry, but I never said that I felt I'd been used.  In fact, my wife is a great person, and I'm glad that I continue to be a part of her life and her little boy's.  Things just didn't work out, in large part to the fact that she has never really embraced living in the US as an American.  Instead, she prefers to live the lifestyle of many other FSU expats in Brooklyn.  These folks can survive and thrive in that community without ever learning a word of english or integrating into mainstream American life these days.

I just wanted to make the point that no matter what you do right or wrong, there is always going to be an element of risk in these relationships which cannot be accounted for.  And in spite of my experience (which was not a horror story by any measure), I would never try to talk anyone out of seeking a foreign-born wife.

[LP]

... in response to Hey LP, posted by thesearch on Feb 25, 2003

....Yer right Doc, I agree completely with almost everything you say. I never really meant to imply these deals were 100% like domestic ones. But phone calls and correspondence aren't enough, my push is only for multiple trips before pulling the trigger. Five trips *are* better than one but how many do that? There is a wide gap in either end of the spectrum, those who propose after one visit run the risk of learning something about relationships the hard way.

Having said all that I fully recognize the following and hereby submit the latest LP manifesto ;-)

1) Everyone is entitled to do as they please, it's their show and the consequences (good or bad) will be theirs to bear.

2) Many of the guy's involved are simply desperate to find someone. This can be seen by how quickly many want to get into something new almost as soon as they got out of a bad previous one. Thats a shame, if they spent enough time being single they would find women are an enhancement to life, not a neccessity. It takes time to adjust and regain one's confidence and variety is the spice of life. The "risk" (as you put it) simply does not have to be there unless she's absolutely for real. Unless you want to start a family, one can have his cake and eat it too as long as one does not put himslef into a position where the gum'mint says you *must* marry. Thats always been one of the most unacceptable parts for me.

3) "The bottom line as far as I see it is that a guy can just simply get prettier, younger and usually a much better attitude in a woman by going to the FSU."

Huh? *Thats* the bottom line? You wanna bag a trophy, go to the Serengeti. But if so, one does not have to go to such extreme measures to find one. For many, they could do it at home if only they tried. Hell, look at me, if I can do it with my award winning personality anyone can. Self confidence and understanding that women are just people is the key. I believe many MOB men's loneliness is self imposed, while rationalizing all sorts of excuses for doing it. The POB is no reason to marry anyone, they all have it so whats the big deal? And whats with the "young and prettier" thing? Thats a poor excuse if one is honest with himself. (Now don't point that back at me, I've told you before it was never my intention, that they only worked out that way.)

4) Pilot groupies? lol...you misunderstood me. I'm not a revolving door with chicks, I'm a one woman man. Just because some women flirt with me doesn't mean I respond. I know what they really want is pretty shallow and I'm not about to give it to them. I could (and I did when I was alone) but I won't risk what I have now for a few moments of pleasure. Fwiw, thats always been the case. The fact is I recently blew off the attention of a beautiful woman 16 years my junior. (A Russian btw, located here, no visa needed. You want her pic and info? She's a little pissed at me right now but I'll see what I can do ;-)

5) No matter what happens, I *will* ask myself what the hell I'm doing when marriage day comes. (It'll happen though, maybe sooner than you or I think and it could very well be another FSU import. I'm keeping an open mind.)

I haven't had the need to be married in 25 years so I'll naturally respond to it quite differently than those just itchin to go again. As for most of those years, I now have everything I need without it. It's simply a case of too much to lose for so little to gain. If that changes I'll reconsider my options but I've always managed to rise from the ashes without resorting to extremes. Remember, I got into this strictly as a curiousity thing, I was never on the "mission" most are. Also now that I've got quite a bit of experience at this I see these girls are rarely all they're cracked up to be. The emotional loose cannons they seem to be are one trait thats especially unappealing to me, along with the knowledge that many are manipulative, pathological liars. Make no mistake, there be some pure evil among their ranks.

6) I've said it before and I'll say it again: This medium is completely incapable of exposing the complex personalities we all are. It's never been my intention to keep the boys "in line", most of them know what they're doing. (lol, all but the Texans it appears.)

It's time to fly off into the sunset soon anyway. I know I've said that before but I really am in the winter of my association with this motley crew. I wish them all luck, I hope they understood my intentions were in their best interests even if my way of expressing it was often not.

No one has the right to tell anyone how to find happiness, least of all me. I just want them to use some rational thought in doing so and try to make them remember something most already know: That happiness involves much more than women. If they can't, well, let them have at it anyway they see fit. Life is too short, we're gonna be dead relatively soon so who really has time to worry about all this crap anyway.

[thesearch]

... in response to You talkin to me?...., posted by LP on Feb 26, 2003

LP: "And whats with the "young and prettier" thing? Thats a poor excuse if one is honest with himself."

"Huh? *Thats* the bottom line? You wanna bag a trophy, go to the Serengeti.

I forgot, looks are not an issue with you relative to women. Since they are for me I suppose one could argue that I am not as evolved as you. So be it.  

I will accept that as long as you take up with the homely overweight females and  leave the attaictive ones for little ole low evolved  me. LOL

[LP]

... in response to

• , posted by thesearch on Feb 27, 2003[/size]
  
  ....lol, touche. But you know what I was gettin at. Looks matter to me, but it's no excuse to go halfway around the world and it's certainly not the bottom line.

  That would be a good pair of legs ;-)

[thesearch]

... in response to ok,..., posted by LP on Feb 28, 2003

I am still going to say that it is the bottom line, Now in that bottom line issue it was not just mentioned to be prettier and younger but also to get a woman with a better attitude. I think you are forgetting that part.

I am thinking that when you say it is not the bottom line you very well might be referring to the point that it is who a person is and how you feel about each other, how you get along relative to all aspects of life as being the bottom line or some variation on that theme. And, I totally agree with that.

The point is that men use a screening/filtering system where by physical appearance is the criteria. Once a man finds a woman attractive he then looks to the most important things mentioned above which ultimately becomes the bottom line that I was not referring to originally..

What I am referring to is the bottom line that got you to seriously look at this woman to find out if all of the important stuff is there.

LP: "Looks matter to me, but it's no excuse to go halfway around the world"

Well, you went half way around the world and I doubt it was because you knew up front that any of these ladies were the right one for you.

no excuse to travel half way a round the world? Who needs an excuse, all you have to do is want to do it. IMHO that is all the reason one needs.  

Going to Mars might be pushing a bit however. But the bottom line is that it does not mater where you go as long as you get what you were seeking.

[LP]

... in response to Re: ok,..., posted by thesearch on Feb 28, 2003

......Doc, I can't argue when the logic is sound. I went because she was more than beautiful however. And she was more beautiful than what I have now, keep that in mind, and I didn't have to go halfway around the word for this one. I sent the FSU one back because she was less in everything (except beauty) than what I found here.

I still maintain that one does not *have* to go to a first rate third rate country to find such quality. It may his choice but it's not his imperative. (unless he's a true loser) Thats my story (literaly) and I'm stickin to it. In a general sense though, I fully capitulate to your logic and offer you my sword.

Yer right about something else too: All one has to do is want to go, especially when it's so cheap. ;-)

[thesearch]

... in response to You know me...., posted by LP on Feb 28, 2003

Were on the same page about what is important. I am glad you are happy. And, I do agree one does not have to go half way around the world to find a nice lady.

And, with the lady that you brought over whereby things did not turn out. I do not know how much time you spent with her before bringing her over but, I would assume from your advice to others you did not just bring her over without trying to get a good idea if she was someone you might be compatible with. Yet, it did not work out. I simply do not think that one can really know about these things until you live with them. So, as cautious as one can be, it is still a crap shoot. I am sure you would have rather figured it out before you brought her over.

[LP]

... in response to [:], posted by thesearch on Feb 28, 2003

...It didn't "work out" for reasons different than most. I sent her back because something better came along soon after she arrived. That may sound cold but you'd have to know the details. Besides, I'll bet that particular scenario occurs very rarely. I'm the one who killed it, not her. If that something better hadn't come along I'd be married to her now and positive it'd be a good deal. I invested 1.5 years into it before she came. With my travel bennies that equated to lots of time spent with with her in several countries.

She was choosen over many others and I considered her a good find. But this way I get it all without the risks or the hassles. Like I said, FSU chicks have some attributes others more needy may desire but don't much appeal to me. Give me someone more independent and less emotional anyday over a loose cannon. (And it's nice not having to weed out the gypsies, tramps, and thieves.) No IRS crap to deal with too...

It's just the way things work out when one retains control, but it still wasn't easy to let her go. Truth is, I suffer pangs from it to this day. Considering the investment made it wasn't easy to do. (lol, I blame KenC) The bottom line (my bottom line -smile-) was that I had to do what was right for me, not her. After all, thats why we all got into this isn't it? Hey, I may pick up the torch again when my current deal goes malignant. (And it probally will, I have no delusions about it. I don't live in a fairy tale, in fact I prefer it that way.)

You also have to keep in mind my differences compared to others. One marriage that ended 25 years ago and none since, yet never alone. I'm simply used to having my cake and eating it too. Marriage is more of an alien concept to me and I thank God I never married those who came before, for I would not be where I am today. (I come first and thats the way it should be.) Besides, the thought of marrying someone in a deadline because the gum'mint says I have to has always left a bad taste in my mouth.

So I'm a product of my life experience, one that I've tried to maintain fairly rigid control over. I mean come on, I could end up in a smokin hole tomorrow (lol, we're always the very first to arrive at the scene of an accident ya know), lifes too short to invest it in one woman anyway. How many others would have sent her back under the same circumstances? I bet not many, and in my opinion therein lies the difference between men who need a woman and men who simply want one.

[thesearch]

... in response to Well...., posted by LP on Mar 1, 2003

I can imagine what a bummer that would be to deal with -- not fun

[yoe]

... in response to Well...., posted by LP on Mar 1, 2003

I kinda like those dark skinned baptist type myself...about 24 years old.......when they get the Jesus in'em .....whoooooooeeeeeeeeee laud have mercy dear percy......
See ya at church
Joe
#;ob