If the lady is honest is she a scam?

[wilmc]

This morning I opened my daily dose of lovely "Updates" from "BridesRu."  Although I am only interested in finding potential dates from women over 30 a particularly attractive picture of Elvira attracted my attention and I indulged in a little "eye candy."  Out of curiosity I read her "...perception of an ideal relationship.":

"I always was attracted by men older than me, it's better if you are thirty or older.  I loking for right person for short encounter.  Besides travel expenses I expect substantial material help otherwise I cant afford to abandon my work for some time.  I just reply for seriouse proposal."

Before we leap to the conclusion that she is just a "working girl," or "scammer," shouldn't we consider the difficulties she, and many other ladies from the FSU have, with using a foreign language.  

I often reflect on our dating process.  If we ask a lady that we meet here in the park, in church, in a singles bar, through a dating service, or etc., for a "date" would we not expect to pay her expenses.  That is our custom as I understand it.

I personally would not respond to this young lady's offer because I do not believe that for me a relationship with a large age difference has little potential for success.  Otherwise, I would be inclined to "give her the benefit of the doubt."

It seems to me that finding a compatible companion is a risky game where ever it is  played.  It is more challenging when played upon the "international" field and the stakes, expeneses, may be larger.  For me the "rewards," so far, have have been worth it.

BUT, be careful out there!

[juio99]

... in response to If the lady is honest is she a scam?, posted by wilmc on Nov 4, 2002

William, I read this ad as the gal wants some one to take her on a vacation or a 'holiday' as they call it.  She wants all expenses paid and in addition the 'substantial material help' means that the guy must reimburse her for the wages that she will lose from working while she is on the holiday.

So, at least she is upfront about it all.  I don't think anything is unclear, even though as you say English is foreign to her.

I encountered a similar situation even with a gal who I had met and spent several days with in Russia.  When we started talking about a vacation together in Turkey she started sending me a nonending stream of amounts of money that she would need.  Money for tickets, for train to Moscow, for trip to airport, for lunches, for clothes, etc.  Then came the even bigger kickers that she wouldn't get paid for taking time off, so she needed money for rent, utilities, food for her children who would stay home, money to pay for child watchers, etc.

Some of it I was ready to go for, but as the list kept lengthening, I called it quits with her and invited another gal.  The even more galling thing was that the original gal made the highest salary of any of the ladies that I met $600 per month.  Yet when I became involved, suddenly she had not a dime to her name, even though she had indicated before that she took regular vacation trips every year.

And yet the replacement gal made only $100 per month and wouldn't take anything from me up front except the plane ticket.

JR

[Ryan]

... in response to If the lady is honest is she a scam?, posted by wilmc on Nov 4, 2002

I feel that adds like this are in many ways a setup.  Many things could happen here, you could end up dead in a hotel room, you could travel a long way and probably get stood up or you could meet her pay some money get your hopes up and break your own heart.  This process is far to risky as it is to start playing around with women like you have described.  Your correct in staying in your own league if everyone did this I feel we would not have as many scams as there are reported.

[wilmc]

... in response to When your playing with fire you could ge..., posted by Ryan on Nov 4, 2002

Ryan, you may be right and I agree that we should take proper precautions. I only want to make the point that we should be more tolerant of cultural and language difficulties.

BUT life is an adventure and I for one would rather spent my time with these charming beauties than end up alone in some nursing home.

Be sure to look both ways when you cross the street, the proverbial bus may be coming.

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: When your playing with fire you coul..., posted by wilmc on Nov 4, 2002

Ok so I understand your point live life to the fullest etc.  But isn’t finding a beautiful woman that you have love and trust with more enjoyable in your senior years than some little cookie that you will have a hard time communicating with at her level?  I don’t agree with you that this woman was being upfront and to the point I feel that more then ever she has some hidden agenda.  From my experience these Russian woman are bold and upfront all the time but in more of the way of them wanting family and a stable loving relationship.  An FSU woman that wants what she has written has some sort of AW agenda going on I just don’t like it.  I only agree with you on the point of living life to it’s fullest and disagree on your definition of a full life…

[wilmc]

... in response to Re: Re: When your playing with fire you ..., posted by Ryan on Nov 4, 2002

Ryan:

I do not think there is any disagreement here.  I am not interested in any sort of relationship with any ladies under 30.  40 actually, but I occasionally delude myself that I might make an exception.  I did once, she now has a lovely, family, home and a good marriage in England.  God bless her.  

You may be correct in your assesment of Elvira's motives.  I am not so sure.  I do believe that we are so very suspicious and wary that we may jump to unfair conclusions.
We read about so many horror stories, urban legends.  Frankly, I think the MOB's are at far more risk than are any of the AM seeking them.

If after a concession for "the benefit of the doubt,"  either party still has suspicions, better to give it a pass.

I am retired and have the luxury of travelling extensively.  I have met and corresponded with many FSU ladies that I did not choose to pursue a relationship with. I have met many ladies who were more interested in my finances than my character.  Proportinally not as many in the FSU as the AW I have met.  That is why I keep going back.

My only point is that we should keep an open mind, and be of good cheer.  We agree. I believe, that these ladies who offer themselves for our consideration are mostly good people who seek healthy loving relationships as well as a better life.  Who can blame them?  

I am amazed how emotionally charged I find these e-mail exchanges can be.  Far more so than face to face conversations.  Most of the problems are semantic and cultural I think.

[Stevo]

... in response to If the lady is honest is she a scam?, posted by wilmc on Nov 4, 2002

"I loking for right person for short encounter."

it sure seems like she's looking to become a kept woman, at least for short intervals.  I don't know how else you could read this...regardless of any difficulties she might have with English.  She's certainly not interested in marriage, so unless you're not interested in marriage also, then I don't know how you could even consider her if she was the right age.

[wilmc]

... in response to I don't know about you, but when a woman..., posted by Stevo on Nov 4, 2002

You are probably right BUT please try this interpretation on.

"... short encounter" = "date"

How can any relationship be successful without the couple spending some time together?  Yes, there have been some wonderful romantic relationships via mail exclusively but they have been very rare.  Today in the west most relationships proceed thru a period of "living together" before marriage.  Incidently, a recent study reported that marriages that were proceeded by living together suffer a much higher divorce rate than those that do not.  I assume that is a reflection of different socialization and sense of committment and duty, also the pressure of family and community.  Sorry, I contradict myself.

Isn't it reasonable that a young Muscovite be concerned that her potential suiter realize that she lacks the resources to take the time to "get to know him" without support?  I share the forum's concern for the abuse of scammers and I can accept that Elvira may be a young lady who "just wants to have a good time."  On the other hand she may be a very sincere young lady who happens to be blunt.

Maybe I have become a "soft touch" in my old age but my three years of experience visiting Russia and meeting ladies there have increased my level of tolearance for the cultural and language difficulties.  Despite these limitations I have found the ladies that I have met to be sincere, charrming, intelligent and extraordinarily lovely.  Three of the ladies I dated have found other husbands in the west.  We continue to correspond and I consider them to be good friends.  The fourth lady and I find ourselves growing closer with each visit. I believe we may have found each other's "true love."  There have been many minor misunderstandings but with mutual consideration and respect they have all been successfully resolved and smiled over.  "It ain't easy" but for me it is worth it.

I do not mean to be Elvira's advocate or "pimp."  I only use her "perception," as an illustration of how we may misinterpret the English usuage she and her "sisters" employ.

We should be grateful that they try so hard to accomodate our ignorance of their tongue, or for that matter any foreign languages.  I speak about the majority of Americans who remain uninformed about anything international.

That is my two kopeks worth.

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: I don't know about you, but when a w..., posted by wilmc on Nov 4, 2002

And have it all translated for you...

[Dan]

... in response to I don't know about you, but when a woman..., posted by Stevo on Nov 4, 2002

He was asking *if* the girl is honest about her intentions (clearly, this one appears honest - even if her intentions are incompatible with a long-term relationship) - and *if* that girl's intentions are NOT to be married (as in this instance) - should that girl be labeled a "scammer"?

In fact, I respect these sorts of women - for their honesty. They are NOT dragging guys along with the expectation that something 'more' will develop. They are not making the effort to waste anyone's time (or money). I've met a few of these ladies - and as soon as it became clear that our objectives were misaligned (pretty quickly, usually), it was easy to move on to someone else who had goals more compatible with my own.

I don't see any "scam" at all in this lady's post. I only wish more women (and men) had the fortitude to lay out their objectives up-front (as she does).

FWIW

- Dan

[Stevo]

... in response to That Wasn't The Question . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 4, 2002

"Before we leap to the conclusion that she is just a "working girl," or "scammer," shouldn't we consider the difficulties she, and many other ladies from the FSU have, with using a foreign language....I personally would not respond to this young lady's offer because I do not believe that for me a relationship with a large age difference has little potential for success. Otherwise, I would be inclined to "give her the benefit of the doubt."

From the above, it is quite clear that WilmC is suggesting that the woman's requirements for a man may have something to do with her English abilities.  He also suggests that he might try to establish a relationship with her if the age difference wasn't so great.  So either he's not interested in a relationship towards marriage, or does not understand the meaning of her requirements.  There's nothing 'scammy' about her profile, but her requirements are not the result of poor English abilities.

[Dan]

... in response to Sure it was, read the body for the real ..., posted by Stevo on Nov 4, 2002

Rather than listen to the original person posting the question.

LOL

- Dan

[wilmc]

... in response to That Wasn't The Question . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 4, 2002

Thank you Dan.  I beleve that may be a fair interpretation.

In addition how many very successful relationships and even marriages have begun with a casual relationship, affair?

I am getting to be long in the tooth and times may have changed since I was in college,those libertine late 60's and early 70's, but I seem to recall most relationships began more or less that way then.

Oh well, no big deal.  I must admit besides enjoying Elvira's picture I also appreciated her candour.