Question about leaving the US

[Charles]

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by mudd on Jul 26, 2002

If I read his post correctly, he apparently had a job at the time of the K1 application, and then lost his job.  Remember that the financial scrutiny for a K-1 is much less than for the green card.  In Moscow they no longer require the I-134 affidavit of support.  It's been a few years since my wife went through Warsaw, but the reports I have read from more recent board members indicate that they don't even ask for financial data for the K-1 in many cases.  I am not saying there is definitely abuse here, but there are some very strong indications that would suggest that the lady see a lawyer as you suggest.

[Charles]

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by mudd on Jul 26, 2002

Given that her husband doesn't have a job and doesn't plan on getting one, wants to go to Italy, it is doubtful that she will be able to obtain a green card unless she can prove abuse.  Yes, I am sure there are trumped up cases and as a lawyer I have seen my share of those, but from the original post it appears that the husband has abandoned his wife.  He is not supporting her and is leaving the country and apparently wanting her to go with him without advance parole.  There may be more to the story, no doubt, and you are correct that she should seek independent legal advice.

[Alfred]

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

I am also disturbed that you would advise someone to file an abuse (yes, I am aware that there is both physical and nonphyical (often called verbal) abuse) as I suspect that there are some trumped up charges files so that the foreign spouse can file for Adjustment of Status on their own. It's just not something we should encourage.  (I do not mean to discourage legitimate claims.)

In my opinion, a better recommendation would have been to seek legal advice to determine what she can and should do in her situation.  Many areas have sources of low or no cost legal services available.

[Del]

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

I find it distressing for you to counsel: "She may want to claim abuse and abandonment because if her husband's financial situation and, more importantly, his attitude does not change, he may not meet the economic requirements to sponsor the green card application."
A fraud is a fraud is a fraud!

[Charles]

... in response to disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 26, 2002

Hardly disgusting in my view, since, if the story is true, she had no involvement in the "fraud."  There may be more, to be sure, but for a RW to have to return to her country after marrying a foreigner is not a pleasant experience; it is most embarassing for them.  If ChrisB's account is accurate, I see no harm in this woman attempting to try to stay in America.  There is an additional responsibility that goes with this process since few of these women are immediately capable of supporting themselves in the U.S.  If the story is accurate, this man has been totally irresponsible.  Why should the woman be further punished by having to leave when there may be an argument to keep her here.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Charles on Jul 28, 2002

Charles,
Please don't get me wrong because I am no saint, but you think it would be OK for this woman to out and out lie about being abused?  That is a serious charge and a serious lie.  I don't know if it would be on the guys record or not either.  I know the guy is painted bad in this story, and he deserves little compassion, but a false accusation like that is just wrong.  Stretch the truth.  Embelish the truth.  But to make up your own truth for convenience, is wrong.
KenC

[Charles]

... in response to so the end jusifies the means?, posted by KenC on Jul 28, 2002

Ken, that's not what I am suggesting at all.  What I said was that it appeared that this man had totally neglected his wife, is deliberately not trying to get a job and perhaps is trying to get rid of her by taking her to Italy without getting her the required advance parole so she can't reenter.  She may be able to claim abuse based on these facts and obtain a green card, but she should seek a lawyer for that as others have suggested.  I have practiced law for over 20 years, and I have never been accused of suborning perjury, a frivilous lawsuit or anything of the kind.  If my comments suggested that, then I apologize.  I was simply trying to find some angle where by this woman could stay in America with her mother.

[BrianN]

... in response to Re: disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Charles on Jul 28, 2002

[ChrisB]

... in response to disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 26, 2002

While I don't agree to give advise for what he suggusted, I don't feel it is disgusting.

If you understood the real situation, you might agree with me. I understand better about the situation and I think the girl should have been denied her fiance visa. In fact the interviewer told her they would deny it only if the US citizen wasn't standing next to her. They saw through the disguise, but having the American standing there, they would have had trouble defending the denial.

Charles has a point. He promised to love and care for her, but has put himself into extreme debt. This was something he walked right into. He bought a house on a $5,000 mortgage and had a $6,000/month income.

No joke here. I don't know how he pulled this off, but I am told it was by using 3 or more banks doing financing at the same time. I just wonder what will happen when all the banks try to claim title at the county office at the same time.

The girl, followed her mother here, and didn't realy like the man. Mama said all she needs to do is wait for the 2 years and she's free.

I'm not out to help nor hinder anyone. Shoot, they both deserve each other. ;-)

[thesearch]

... in response to A bit harsh..., posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

LP contends that for most of these ladies, getting here is first priority. There is no doubt that no one knows the real percentages of women who view things like this young lady.

It is an interesting form of prostitution is it not? It really is no different than typical prostitution as far as I am concerned.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to LP contends...., posted by thesearch on Jul 26, 2002

I must have missed LP being canonized... shucks!

Will all of your posts now read: "According to St. LP..."

Why should his opinion be more respected than, say, Jack's -- who certainly knows a LOT more FSU women...

But...worship him it makes you happy...

As for your statement: "It really is no different than typical prostitution as far as I am concerned..." I'm shocked. That is rather small-minded at best.

Let's apply your thinking to American Women...

What about the woman who marries the doctor hoping for a better life? Is that Prostitution?

How about a woman who chooses a man who has a degree over a local mechanic, because the man with a degree has a better future? Shall we scream Prostitute?

What about the single mother who marries a man so her son has a father-figure in his life? Is she a prostitute?

What about the woman who has sex with a man, finds out she's pregnant, and then marries him, even though she really doesn't love him, but so her child won't be a "bastard". Is she a prostitute?

The woman attracted to the man in the corvette?

The woman who's head is turned by the man in the nice suit?

All of these examples show someone attracted to wealth, prosperity, or an image of a "better life."

Are these women all prostitutes in your book?

So... I guess that the men who chase after women with big breasts are OK in your book, but the woman who chases the man with a big wallet is not?

Nice that you can sit here in America and judge women half way around the world that you have never met...

Nice that we can know their motives without having to live their lives...

Prostitutes all!

Let us ready the tar and feathers, and Scarlet letters!

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: LP contends...., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 26, 2002

Being attracted to Mr. Rich Gringo and the possibility of a better life makes her human, not a prostitute, but marrying the first person to come along, screwing him for two years solely for the green card, then, then taking off the day it arrives is something else entirely. I believe that is rare but it has happened. Very likely far more men scream scammer when their own relationship skills suck, than are actually scammed.

-- Jeff S.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Re: LP contends...., posted by Jeff S on Jul 27, 2002

A woman who married a guy, slept with him until she got a green card, and then took off ast the first chance she got...

Yes... OK... you can use the word Prostitute there.

But Greg's original post said:

"for most of these ladies, getting here is first priority..."

First off, I rather doubt that. This is American hyperbole. These women aren't as interested in America as some men on here seem to think. Victoria would MUCH rather have me move to Ukraine... but that's not a possibility...

Secondly, even if that WERE true, that ALONE does not make them a prostitute.

In your scenario, they bolt at the first chance. I think that is an exceedinlgly rare scenario. I would be willing to bet that we are talking about less that ten percent of all foreign brides who come here.

According to Greg's post, you would think it would be 51% (or how else do you define "most?" )

If the woman accepts a man who is "less" than she can get in Russia, but marries him for the better life of security and prosperity, and makes an honest attempt to make the marriage work... that is NO different than an AW who chooses the banker instead of the mechanic for the same reasons.

And what I really object to is the idea that because a woman marries an older, more established man, she is somehow shallow (or worse.) (And, I will state again for the record that Victoria is not a lot younger than I am. We will not raise any eyebrows when people see us together... so I am not objecting because of personal bias. But it still gripes me...)

Is the woman who married the guy who has six-pack abs and looks like Brad Pitt less shallow somehow?

But think about that... two couples walking into a restaurant:

One is in his late forties, gray hair, dresses nicely, but not extravagant... on his arm is a twenty-eight year old hottie. But he is deferential to her. treats her like a gentlemen... holds her chair for her... everything...

Next couple walks in: Guy is a model type. Great looks, great body that he shows off by wearing a tight shirt. He walks in, and flirts with the waitress while his date follows behind. She's also a twenty-something hottie.

In both cases, the women chose their date (perhaps mate) based on what was important to them.

The first lady will have to bear insults and stares: "Look at that. She is a whore. She is just with him for his money!"

In the second case, people will say: "Wow. She's got a good catch there, huh? Look at him!"

in other words: Choosing a mate based on looks is completely accepted and expected in our society. Choosing based on other qualities is not.

I think THAT is shallow.

[LP]

... in response to Re: LP contends...., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 26, 2002

...something you don't. Because I did the research in a way you didn't. Because I didn't marry someone I met on one trip in a few weeks. Because these girls tell Jack only what they want. Because most lie through their teeth until they know their outta the game, just like our girl did.

Moron.

Btw, I loved your post below. You really are pretty screwed up ain't cha?

Lol, hows the petition coming? Heard anything yet?

[ChrisB]

... in response to LP contends...., posted by thesearch on Jul 26, 2002

..it was do anything to get here.  Now I do condemn her method of getting here, but, if you look beyond that fact, she treats her new husband nicely. I hope they stay happy together.

As for the daughter, I just hope she doesn't get over her head. She started out on the wrong foot by marrying a man, over 20 years her senior, whom she didn't like to start with. She said he was "rather weird." (her words)

The day's almost over for me and I'm off for a week in Florida. Hope the waters are calm for the boat trip fishing. And thank God my parents live there and will baby sit. :-)

Chris