About last night......

[Mark H]

She called when she got home, I wrote the post as she was driving. Many times over the last 3 + years I have had so many people ask me "why a russian chick?". I've heard all the banter about AW stink, and so forth, never really agreeing. I don't think AW stink, not at all. I think they need a different type of guy than me. I think I have finally realized just what it is, that I don't care for, in an American woman. It's along the lines that Mark, KenC, and Yoe spoke. Commitment, devotion, and affection. I have never been with a more affectionate women than a russian or ukrainian woman. The feeling you get is astounding and quite addictive. Last night, I shared with my girlfriend that things didn't "feel right" to me, something was missing. She said "are you dumping me?" "If you are, get it over with so I can get some sleep."  Hmmmmm. I tried to reason with her that all was not well. She kept reiterating that "everything is fine, don't worry". I said I wasn't worrying just felt that she was distant and that I was chasing her all the time. Next comes the typical AW response "Look, I'm not going to get into it with you, if you want to dump me then dump me. I have stress at work, responsibilities at home with my daughter and I MUST have smooth and easy in my dating life". I agreed wholeheartedly. She never saw MY needs or MY feelings as anything at all to worry about. Everything was fine for HER. It didn't matter how I felt. She had a great guy doting on her, spending a ton of money on her, planning a trip to France for late AUgust for her and her daughter, what could not be perfect? I on the other hand, have a chick that I see once or twice a week if I'm lucky, hangs out with her ex-husband and his family all the time (of course the ex-husband has a new girlfriend who is there also but it still freaks me out), is NEVER affectionate, and always busy.  Hmmmmm, she looks darn good and it's easy to fall prey to the fact that she is HERE. Right here, right now.

Now I'm back in the hunt and not sure which direction to go. I've been to the FSU 5 times. I've gone on my own all but one trip that I took with Jack. I met many wonderful women all who wanted to get married but none that I chose. Am I a jerk? I guess. I just don't want to do the email/scam/BS search anymore. Any suggestions?

Still dating an AW,
Mark H.

[Ramblin]

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Get yourself a fat chick, they're low maintenance.  Or how about a homely looking lady, she will give you the devotion, affection, and commitment that you desire.

[johnnydudeman]

... in response to Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by Ramblin on Jul 12, 2002

My suggestion to MarkH is...don't be such a big baby!  Maybe you and she are not right for each other.  And maybe you and she have different expectations as to how quickly your relationship should progress.  So what?  Move on.  Find an AW who is as needy as you or find an RW who is as needy as you.  Whatever.  But what does this ONE experience with ONE woman (who does not give you the proper appreciation and affection you need in exchange for the $100 you spent on dinner) have to with the difference between AW and RW?  You say you've CHASED AW and you said you've CHASED RW.  Maybe you are just a CHASER.  Maybe that's what you "dig."  But I think when someone really wants to be caught, they don't have to be CHASED.  Maybe "Rhonda" was just turned off by your neediness and starvation for appreciation, affection, and attention.

I've got a flipside experience with an AW.  I was recently casually dating a very nice and very pretty woman here and we had some good times, and I guess she was "appreciative" (whatever that means).  And, like your Rhonda girl, I thought seeing each other "once or twice a week" was perfect (busy and stressful schedules...and occasional dates with other girls).  But she called me way too often and she was way too affectionate and she was way too clingy and she wanted us to be together way more often than I wanted.  She also complained that she felt she was constantly CHASING me.  So, after a while, I told her "I've gotta go" and stopped calling her.  Rhonda was quick to ask if you were breaking up with her.  Maybe Rhonda was getting bored with you and just wanted you to break things off with her?  

We've all got our own reasons for seeking a RW woman and I have met enough RW women to have learned some things.  And while I don't profess to know the "mysterious Russian soul," I DO know that there are very FEW, if any, common character and personality traits that ALL RWs share with each other (just as there are very few traits that ALL AWs share with each other).  I also know that men here have expressed different attitudes and experiences with AWs and RWs.  I have seen some men here say they met RW who were SO appreciative for the simplest things, and I have seen some men here say they met an RW who expected everything and that their RW wouldn't know how to say thank you in any language (as mark loves to say...read the archives).  I've also personally had different experiences in this area.  The last time I went to Moscow, I took a "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat" to one of my Moscow girls.  And she smiled and kissed me and said thanks.  I also paid for transportation to bring in another girl and I had a Mercedes pick her up at the train station and take her to a "too many dollars per night Moscow hotel" and I took her out for dinner at nice places and took her shopping and bought her an expensive pair of boots at a Moscow mall.  And she smiled and kissed me and said thanks...and then she asked me to buy her a purse and a new jacket and two new jackets for her two young nephews back home.  I said "nyet, let's just go for a walk now."  (I'll be seeing my "cowboy hat girl" real soon...and I'll probably never see my "take me shopping" girl again).  But, the point is...I didn't expect either girl to kiss my a@@ for what I chose to do for her.  That's just a loser attitude.  You say "I spent $100 bucks tonight to buy steaks, shrimp, roses, and condiments for this dinner. I had one kiss tonight. One. I think that is pretty lame."  Sounds like you think she's not appreciative enough because she doesn't kiss your a@@ after you do something nice or spend a buck on her for dinner.  Now, THAT'S pretty lame.  I hear many AW groan "where are all the good guys?" and they use guys like YOU as an example of "all the losers out there."  Good women (whether they are AW or RW) want a man who is truly good...not just a man with a truly good wine collection.  And good men want a truly good woman...not just a "darn good looking" woman who is good partly because she is "here" and partly because she will kiss his a@@ for every simple gesture he makes.  You say the difference between AW and RW "is that the FSu woman is appreciative."  I say that is pretty simple minded.

[Del]

... in response to Re: Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 13, 2002

you mean she really and truly appreciated a "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat"!  No BS ?
Either she's a real keeper or she's never been to Calgary!!

[johnnydudeman]

... in response to WOW !!!!!!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 15, 2002

Yeah, I'm thinking she may be a real keeper.  And I'm glad you didn't take the "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat" comment so seriously.  (It was meant as kind of tongue in cheek, which is why I put it in quotes.)  She actually wanted a "real Cowboy hat" after seeing Madonna wear one in one of her videos.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 13, 2002

I think you're reading into the situation, and finding as much bad that you can, and then flying off on a tangent.

Look, none of us really knows what happened with Mark and this girl.

In one post, he's telling us he met someone really great, and she's making him forget about travelling over-seas... and then he says that he is having second thoughts... he briefly outlined some of the reasons... but it is really more of a "feeling" that it wasn't right.

To jump from that and call him a "big baby", "a CHASER", and lump him in with "all the losers out there" is an amazing leap in logic... Even for you.

I will agree that no one character trait is shared by any nationality of women.

But, Mark can certainly make an assessment of the type of women he has dated in America, and compare it to the type of woman he dated in Ukraine (or Russia.)

And, really, anything he says there is valid... because it is his experience. If he had dated twenty blondes and twenty brunettes, and then said: "You know what? From all of the women I have dated... blondes really do have more fun..." How can you possibly argue with that?

He is only stating his opinion based on the women he has dated. You can be argumentative and say: "Well, I think Brunettes have more fun... so there!" But what's the point? He was only commenting on his own life experience.

Your buying some girl a cowboy hat hardly invalidates that.

He specifically said that he was comparing the women he had dated... not making a blanket statement of all American Women, or Russian Women.

Sheesh! You need to learn to read for content.

Although any statement that starts with the words: "All American Women are..." is invariably false... there still are cultural differences that exist.

If you are too stupid, or stubborn, to admit that, then you are too stupid or too stubborn to waste any time with...

What you want a woman to do with your a@@ is your business. But if you honestly think that women in Russia are not culturally different from women in America... then do us all a favor and stay home...  and leave the search overseas to those men who have grasped the obvious: Women in a different country are different.

Huff, Puff, and BLOW all you want... nothing you say will change that simple incontrovertible fact.

[johnnydudeman]

... in response to So... do you just tee-off on anyone name..., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 13, 2002

I didn't call him a "big baby" just because he says he is back in "the hunt" after a he got a bad feeling caused by being shunned by an American woman.  I called him a big baby for saying "I spent $100 bucks tonight to buy steaks, shrimp, roses, and condiments for this dinner. I had one kiss tonight. One. I think that is pretty lame" and for being upset because a woman has (in his own words) "taken my devotion and admiration for granted" because he's spent a few bucks on her for dinner and trips.  Now, those are not grown man statements...those are immature "big baby" statements.  After his complaints of not being appreciated and being taken for granted, he says he will probably continue to date her.  Now, grown men accept certain realities and move on...big babys just complain and stay in the same situation.

I also did not call him a chaser, HE CALLED HIMSELF A CHASER, over and over again.  HE said (in his own words) "I FEEL LIKE I AM CONSTANTLY CHASING HER."  And HE said "that's right, chasing."  And he said "I sit and wonder why I was ever chasing FSU women."  And he said "I'm tired of chasing this chick and I'm done."  I don't think its a jump in logic to call someone a chaser when THEY say they are a chaser.

You say MarkH was not making a "blanket statement."  But,  again mark, you are wrong.  He DID make a blanket statement.  He said he has (in his own words) "pondered the differences of AW and RW" and "the difference is that the FSu woman is appreciative."  THAT is a BLANKET STATEMENT.  And its stupid.  You say buying a girl a hat "hardly invalidates that."  Huh?  Well, I DO think that showing the contrast of my experience between a Russian girl being happy with a small and personal gift from home, and another Russian girl being a less happy but still wanting more, more, more, SHOWS that NOT ALL FSU are always so appreciative (whatever that means).  That's my experience and that's the experience of so many others on this board.  Read the archives; its full of men telling how their sweet FSU girl was happy with something small they brought them, and of others who say their FSU girls could not be pleased with anything.  "Appreciativeness" is NOT, as MarkH says, the difference between FSU women and others.

You wrote of "cultural differences."  I did not even make a statement about cultural diffences in my post, YOU did.  That's a simple "straw man" argument drawn upon when there is nothing really on the merits to argue about and when someone just wants to argue or when someone is not smart enough to make a real argument.  What I said was that there are few, if any, common CHARACTER and PERSONALITY traits which set FSU women apart.  Yes, there are cultural differences, which is not what I was even talking about.  Obviously there is a difference between American and FSU culture, but that does not mean that we are not similar on the INSIDE.  Russians and Americans are people and have similar needs and desires and feelings as all other people.  That's what I mean by character and personality traits.  And there IS a difference between cultural traits, and character & personality traits.  Culture goes mostly to HOW AND WHERE YOU LIVE (on the oustide) and character & personality goes more to WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE (in the inside).  One thing you will learn eventually is that even FSU women, who you agree are shaped outwardly by their culture, may change some things about themselves when they come to America and become somewhat more "Americanized" (cultural changes), but that does not change WHO or WHAT they are on the inside (character and personality traits).  I mean, let's take you, for an example of cultural vs. character similarities and differences between Russian and American people.  You want a wife and love and to be happy...and Vladimir in Russia wants a wife and love and to be happy.  Okay?  Similar character traits, right?  But you drink beer and work as a salesman and have had multiple fiancees and are hopelessly optimistic that the next one will be "the one" and you live in an apartment...but Vladimir drinks piva and works at the formerly state run factory and is optimistically looking for a nice girl (but the're all looking for American men) and he lives in a "flat."  So how are you two so different inside...really.

Yeah, as you say, anyone can state an opinion...even that blondes or brunettes or redheads have more fun.  Whatever.  And I wouldn't even argue with that.  I would just say that's a stupid general statement.  And no, I would not take issue with someone just because they are named mark and they make a stupid statement.  But I WOULD call someone to account when they make stupid statements on a public board and expect to get one BIG GROUP HUG.

[yoe]

... in response to Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by Ramblin on Jul 12, 2002

never make a pretty woman your wife
if you want my personal point of view
get an ugly girl to marry you
joe

[greg2]

... in response to if you want to be happy for the rest of ..., posted by yoe on Jul 12, 2002

Joe did you follow your own advice?

[yoe]

... in response to Re: if you want to be happy for the rest..., posted by greg2 on Jul 12, 2002

n.t

[johnnydudeman]

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hey...you didn't meet this cheeky woman at CHAMMPS at Heubner Oaks, did you?

[Mark H]

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 12, 2002

fda

[thesearch]

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hey Mark,

I did not think that my prediction would come to fruition so quickly.

Gotcha on this one MarkInTx

Mark, I have watched every trip and the approach you taken. I do not have time tonight to give you my take on advice but will perhaps tomorrow. I will give you a clue, it will be close to the same advice I gave you before when you wrote about one of your upcoming trips. From my observation post,  I will warn you that I am very opinionated about how you should do this.  

But for now about this AW. There are some good posts below and perhaps mine will not shed any further light just some different words dancing around the same ending.

Some time ago I got blasted for my Zero Tolerance theory that I still feel is a valid approach to women in the courting stage or searching stage..

First of all, there are many selfish people in this world - men and women alike. Believe me, women have the same problems that we do in finding a good mate. Besides being selfish there are many women who view the male female relationship issue as a slave and slave holder concept molded by the control factor.

These women view men as slaves to their needs not uncommonly using tactics of manipulation and control to achieve their end desired result.  These women however, can not really hide who they are or what they want. Men just choose to ignore all of the indicators.

A woman who is really interested in you lets you know - there is no question about it. She will work darn hard to please you. You can not miss it plain and simple. If you ever find yourself questioning her feelings and there is a consistent pattern to it - she is not for you for whatever reason. Now, I will admit that there are women who do not show their interest as overtly and in these cases you have to be a better observer - but even these ladies will show it.

This lady you are dating seems like a selfish user plain and simple. In the end run you would be happier with a very average looking nice AW than this person. She is not going to change. She is not for you. Of course you knew that.

You are a good man and you deserve a good woman. It sounds like you are not willing to settle for anything less. Good for you.

Hey Mark, it is good to have you back - really

[Mark H]

... in response to Re: About the next night and the next an..., posted by thesearch on Jul 11, 2002

Thanks Greg, nice words and they are not falling on deaf ears. It's good to be back I guess. Not sure what approach or avenue I will take this time. Taking it all in and will decide very soon.

Mark H.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: About the next night and the next an..., posted by thesearch on Jul 11, 2002


When are you "coming back" Greg...?

Aren't you still with an AW...