To Ryan

[greg2]

Ryan,

I did not get a chance to comment on your once bitten post. I also did not get time to read the responses that you received.

From my perspective, Just consider that you are finding your balance. Prior, you were too trusting and not thinking clearly, now yes you could be prone to swinging to the other side of the pendulum.

You are correct to make observations as you have and consider your concerns as being possibly valid. Simply continue all the while making note of yellow flags. As time goes on either yellow flags will be dispelled or they will turn to red, contimue to mount and the ultimate realization arrives that there is something very wrong that is too risky for you to get involved with.

There is a tendency for guys to sometimes feel that they have to salvage the time that they have invested in a lady by trying to make it work - to the point of ignoring yellow flags as they turn deep red. If you do not fall into this trap, you will keep your senses about you.

With the one lady that I spent a great deal of time with (that ultimately did not turn out) there were what appeared to be many red flags-- they finally proved to be nothing. She was a very sincere honest lady. Some of these problems were created by misunderstandings because she did not speak English and I did not speak Russian.

I have noticed that these ladies commonly do not answer questions - especially if they do not speak English. You simply need to ask again.

There are so many women over there it is better to leave one if too many yellow red flags appear. There will always be another to take her place - one in which multiple yellow red flags do not surface.

She likes to party three times per week? Yea, she is a party person at this time in her life.  If that is your life style then you have something in common. If not, you two are losing common ground that may or may not be critical in the final analysis. It is based upon a lot more that you presently do not know.

Good luck to you.

[greg2]

... in response to To Ryan, posted by greg2 on Jul 4, 2002

I hope you read the posts below.

Writing to one woman is too dangerous Ryan. Thinking this woman is the one sets you up for disappointment. Maybe you are psychic and your gut always gives you the correct message - I do not know about that but, ----- for most sometimes the gut feeling is correct and sometimes we confuse our desires with gut and end up fantasizing the result we desire. When we do this it can feel so much like a gut feeling when it is not. This is common.

If this just might be what is happening to you, I would hate to have you come back saying lesson two learned and now back to the drawing board as with each failure I am less a rookie than I was before.

Plan to meet many women when you go there. If the woman for you is in that city, you will have a better chance to meet her.

[Ryan]

... in response to To Ryan, posted by greg2 on Jul 4, 2002

Thank you for the advice and perspective.  It is a fine line that we sometimes have to walk; I like your idea of counting the flags.  The party woman that I was referring to, I simply stopped writing to her, like you said there are others to take her place.  It,s a sad and sort of cold fact, but that,s the way it really is.

It's incredible as just last week I decided to go back to the very first agency I found two years ago to take a look at what they had.  I went back to http://www.volgagirl.com/ and found a woman that had been listed their for a year and had gotten her address ordered 3 times.  She interested me so I gave it a shot and now I am entwined in wonderful conversations with a good-looking woman from Togliatti Russia.  With all this experience under my belt, I am catching my self when I start to make a mistake; it is just wonderful not being a rookie anymore.  Wow!  I know first hand how the Russian women are so much different than the Ukraine woman.  This particular Russian woman seems to have many of the luxuries that we have and I have to say I really seem to like this a little better.  You don,t get all that "it is not possible for me," or "there is not work for me."  All the stuff that used to hit me right in my heart and make me feel a little sorry for them.  This woman from Russia is so much more of an equal match and we have so many things in common and with out me having to mention it first!  (Early in my search I used to tell a woman my favorite color is blue what is yours and they would reply mine is also blue.  Sort of left you wondering if they are just saying that).  It's so many of these little things that an experienced searcher starts getting cleverer.  This new Russian woman brings back the same romantic feelings that I had with that first woman from Lugansk Ukraine, that I ended up wasting my time and money on.  Of course I am going to visit this new woman from Russia in a couple months not wasting time writing for a year and getting all attached threw e-mail.  Now it is me that uses the line 1000 letter will not replace one meeting.  Before it was the UW saying this, and me being a rookie didn't understand what that really meant.  Yes, I am forcing myself to write to a hand full of other woman from this same city as a back up but my heart is telling me that I once again found the one.  My heart and intuition has never been wrong.  Even with this first Ukraine woman I went to visit with, I still to this day believe that she really did love me at one time.  It was me that was the one that scammed and ruined her love for me by my actions, and I would rather not get into the details as it just gets too deep and tangled to make anyone here learn from or understand what really happened.  As far as the method of being a dating machine and playing a numbers game, that has never appealed to me.  I like to think that I am akin to the MarkInTx method, and if he crashes and burns with the woman he has, well, it would just crush me.

 In short I have my main one that I am really falling for and I will have about 4 off in the distance that I will use as backup only.  I am going to verify my assumptions and in 4 months time this will all be wrapped up by the end of the year.  Not married of course as no mater what that will take me at the very least one more visit after the first, but I would prefer at least 4 visits in all.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: To Ryan, posted by Ryan on Jul 5, 2002

Hey Ryan,

Well, I was thinking when I wrote my trip report that I inadvertantly might inspire men to only write one...

And I would not want that!

You are wise to set some other women to see. I was actually in Brazil dating four women when Victoria wrote me. Ken has said more than once that he met with other women, even though he knew going over that Lena was special. There is nothing wrong with this!

I do think that you CAN get to know someone by letter, so I am hoping that you are doing just that. Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions, but I would do it in a way that didn't sound like an interview question. The illustration you said about your favorite color being blue is a good point.

If a woman is just trying to tell you anything you want to hear, it is hard to get honest answers.

I would ask my questions in a way that would "lead" to the answer I didn't want to hear.

For instance, when I asked Victoria if she wanted to work when she came over here... First off, I knew that she had an MBA in economics. (Or their equivalent.) But I really didn't want a career woman. So, I asked her...

"I am not sure about how degrees are accepted over here. But, I would think that even with the differences in Universities, your advanced degree would be honored. You would probably have good opportunity here for a good job. Would you want to continue to work if you came to America?"

If you see, I tried very hard to talk of her great opportunity, and to keep my feelings out of the question.

Her response was something like: "Of course at first, I would probably need to learn the language better to get a good job. I must tell you, my career is not important to me. I am more interested in the family. I will work if I need to so we can support our family. It would be for you to decide. You are the man."

Then I wrote her back and told her that I don't want her to have a job outside the home when she gets here, and she was very happy to hear that, because she doesn't want a career. She has one now, because she is a single mom and needs it.

Anyway, the point is that -- especially at first -- you need to be cagey with your questions. Many of mine were told as small stories, and then I would ask her what she thought. It was very open ended that way. She couldn't "know" what answer I was expecting.

Later, as things grew more intimate, I felt I could ask her direct questions and solicit her honest opinion.

There were many times when she would disagree with something I said, and we had a chance to discuss it.

Of course, the main thing that happened in our letter writing which changed everything was the week that I did not write to her without explanation. I don't recommend that as a strategy btw! Although it worked for me. It was then that she suddenly realized how much I had come to mean to her. And after that, her letters became much more personal, and we were able to get past the small talk. Again, I did not do that on purpose! But, as it turns out, it was a good thing that it happened.

She had to make a great sacrifice to get her letters to me, and at first, she wasn't willing to pay it. Her letters to me were every other day, and were short.

After this week, she suddenly wrote every day, and her letters were much longer, enabling us to cover many more things.

So... you CAN get to know each other by mail. As long as you don't blow by the hard stuff.

Good luck to you. If you want to email me privately, I would be happy to answer anything to the best of my ability.

I will say, one more time, though... I am no expert. I do not think that the way I did it is a model for success. It seems to have worked for me... that's all... I do think I was lucky. But I do think that to some degree, you have to be a little lucky when you do this...

[KenC]

... in response to Advice from the Patron Saint of the &quo..., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 5, 2002

Mark/Ryan,
Sorry, couldn't resist the heading. LOL.  The problem, as I see it, with extensive letter writing before you meet face to face, is the "fantasy factor".  The people tend to build up an unrealistic version of each other.  (There are no negatives in a fantasy)  The couple is USUALLY disappointed with the reality.  And there is also the dreaded "chemistry factor" that cannot be ascertained until meeting one another.  Mix in a language and cultural differences and you have a long shot of success (at best).  BUT-----when it works, it is amazing.  I think it is the unrealistic expectations that get guys into trouble with this process.  Forcing round pegs into square holes is inviting disaster.  Go with the flow and keep your expectations to a minimum.
KenC

[Oscar]

... in response to "So, do you feel lucky, punk?", posted by KenC on Jul 5, 2002

I have been 4 times to the FSU and each time I met a woman I had been writing to, it just didn't happen!  I think it's the chemistry thing.  Until you meet, there is just no way to know if it will be there!  I don't care if there are 4 hour phone conversations, you can meet in person and it all can just fizzle!  
My last trip to Ukraine, I had been writing to about 20+ women before I got there, some for 4+ months.
I was VERY excited to meet a few of these women but JACK still suggested I write a personal ad and I am SO glad I did.
One woman I had been corresponding and calling with I met one night at a cafe on Deraboska street in Odessa.  Yes, she looked just as hot as her pics (meaning VERY hot!) but there was just something missing personality wise that I just could not get into no matter how hard I tried.  So we had a nice dinner and after 4 months of corresponding and phone calls, we wished each other well and went our seperate ways!  This happens a lot..

So In Dnepropetrovsk, I meet a woman who I had never written or spoken to, who had responded to my personal ad, and BAM!  That was it!

So, I feel writing is fine, as long as you have a backup plan in place!  If it works with the one you have been writing, great.  But don't be surprised if it doesn't..

My 2 cents.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to "So, do you feel lucky, punk?", posted by KenC on Jul 5, 2002


As Yogi Berra put it: I would rather be lucky than good :-)

I agree with what you say.

But, it kinda reminds me of when I was adopting my daughter. I brought her home, and there was a chance that we couldn't keep her. (Long story... had to do with parental rights, etc...)

My attorney gave us the sage advice: "OK... she will be in your home now... but try not to get too attached..."

We still laugh about that one!

Good advice? Sure.

But how in the world do you follow it???

[KenC]

... in response to Lately, yeah ... :-), posted by MarkInTx on Jul 5, 2002

Mark,
When I first went to meet Lena I convinced myself that nothing serious would come from it.  We had become very good friends via the phone calls.  We knew each other well from that stand point.  I was determined not to set myself up for a fall in the romance area.  All that pre-planning went down the crapper the moment I saw her.  LOL.  Two funny things about our meeting though- #1 I later found out she felt the same way #2 Instead of getting nervous, I threw caution to the wind and acted very calmly and naturally.  I guess I felt I had nothing to lose in just being myself.
We both proceeded in our relationship with the mind set that as good as it was, there was little likelyhood of a marriage in our future.  Between the first and second trip, we realized we were in love.  After the second trip, we knew we could not live apart.  I guess we both witheld any thoughts of marriage as there were too many obstacles in our path.  At the same time we both worked diligently to remove those obstacles one by one.  It wasn't until she was here with me that we could logically accept that she was staying.  It was a kind of "this is great, let's see where it goes from here" attitude.
KenC