To TheSearch re: Emotional Decisions

[MarkInTx]

First some ground rules. It's not fair to include my post in your answer as a means of getting more words in your count!

OK... about your claim that I made an emotional decision and then try to use logic to support it:

I am in sales. And I have just been through an intensive sales course. And part of what we learned (and there have been significant studies on this subject...) was that people almost ALWAYS make buying decisions emotionally. In fact, most large decisions in life are made emotionally, not intellectually.

You compared this against you buying a car. Great. You think you bought it based on a careful consideration of features and price? You are fooling yourself. You made an emotional decision, and then use features and price to justify your decision. (This has been proven, by the way, in many post sales studies.)

So, you tell me that I made an emotional decision and then justify it? Of course. It's what we all do.

The only difference is that someone who seeks a foreign bride is forced to defend their decision. But a guy who picks up a girl in the bar, and proposes to her six months later does not. I find that odd...

It depends, also, on who you talk to. If they share your values, you don't need to justify it.

When I bought my Lexus RX-300, Paul (a guy I work with) saw it and said: "Nice car. You know, I almost bought one of those when I bought my Lincoln. It's a nice car. I almost got one, but I got a better deal on my Lincoln."

My mom had a different approach: "You bought a Lexus? Are you crazy? That thing costs more than my house did! How can you afford that? Are you sure about this? Oh, Mark, I just hate to see you struggling under a load of debt son..."

Why? Because Paul makes more money than I do, and my mom makes significantly less.

Because Paul was in the same income bracket, he could afford to share my value system in choosing a car. My mother could not even consider it. She values things like gas economy, reliability, and a low car payment. I value things like quality, comfort, and (yes, I will admit it) looks.

So, she can't understand how I can get a Lexus. It is something she can't even fathom. (BTW, side note. My mother came out and visited me for a week. Almost every time we got home, when she got out of my RX-300, she would stand back and give it an admiring glance...)

The whole FSU thing is colored by stereotypes, bad information, and the fact that most people have not done it.

Anytime you choose the path less taken, you should expect people to challenge your decision.

Personally, I have no problem with that.

The guys on here (most of them) are not in La-La land. They simply share much of the same value system in choosing a wife.

The one thing that I find odd is that you seem to totally discount that women in the FSU have different values than AWs.

If you cannot accept this premise, then I can understand why you would question our motives the way you do.

I will repeat this again and again, even though you apparently are not buying it: I did not get a prettier or younger woman by going to the FSU. The last girlfriend that I was serious with (dated for six months) was 31 years old, and very beautiful. Victoria is 31 years old, and very beautiful -- no difference.

It isn't youth or beauty that brought me to the FSU.

It is the fact that Victoria has wanted -- all her life -- to be a good wife and mother, and have a happy family, and a husband who loves her. That is what she wants out of life. She is well educated, but never wanted a career. She just wanted to be a wife and mother.

Since I have been divorced, (counting both times) I have dated scores of women. I can find an AW who is young, beautiful, and intelligent, educated and wants to marry me. That is easy.

But I can't find one who was young, beautiful, and educated who would be happy being a wife and mother. They always wanted more.

And, by the way, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that -- or wrong with them.

I am saying that they were wrong FOR ME.

After two marriages and divorces, I have a very clear picture of what I want, and what I need in my life.

I couldn't find it here, so I looked over-seas. It is that simple.

But... please don't misunderstand... I am marrying Victoria because I love her.

And yes, I know that is an emotional decision.

I wouldn't have it any other way...

[greg2]

... in response to To TheSearch re: Emotional Decisions, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 29, 2002

Greg:  Mark, with each post you prove my point more and more and in this  last post, even though you do not realize it, you are coming to grips with it.

Mark: OK... about your claim that I made an emotional decision and then try to use logic to support it:

You compared this against you buying a car. Great. You think you bought it based on a careful consideration of features and price? You are fooling yourself. You made an emotional decision, and then use features and price to justify your decision. (This has been proven, by the way, in many post sales studies.)

Greg: Where did I say that I made careful considerations. I actually stated the opposite. That was my point, I bought that car without doing any real evaluation - I said I feel in love and bought the car on the spot. My point ultimately is, although I did not say so in that paragraph,  that I do not have to justify it to anyone.

Mark: So, you tell me that I made an emotional decision and then justify it? Of course. It's what we all do.

The only difference is that someone who seeks a foreign bride is forced to defend their decision. But a guy who picks up a girl in the bar, and proposes to her six months later does not. I find that odd...

Greg: I will close my case, you have admitted all that I accused you of right here.

You made a decision that you feel you have to justify. You admit it now. You see you started out with how do I support my decision and then look at some facts and jump from one conclusion to another to arrive at your planned destination - supporting why you can do what you are doing and that it is not illogical.  

Your conclusion is not fact but twisting of data and in here lies your problem. People like me will shoot big holes in this logic and thus you make yourself even look worse IMHO.

THE POINT OF ALL of this is-------------------------

You do not have to justify a dang thing to anyone. To do so is a position of weakness. The position of strength is to ignore everyone and do what you want. I think that when you start justifying you weaken your own personal position in a real but subtle way. Screw everyone, you are the only one that counts here.

Do what you want and simply be willing to accept the consequences. If is does not work out, that is ok. What is important is you did what  you want and were not influenced by others in a negative way.

If people say to you, it is so risky going to the FSU. My answer would be all marriages are a risk if more is encountered here, so be it. Everyone has their risk tolerance that they have to live in. Evidently mine is greater than yours. It would be a boring world if we were all the same. Plus think about how you will be entertained watching me do all this. I am going to make your life less boring.

If they ask in amazement about how you can marry someone you do not know I would simply say - do you really ever know someone and if it turns out we are not for each other we can end it. So what is the big deal? It happens all the time.

If they say - Well you could be stuck with a huge expense. My response would be - Hey that is life. You can take every precaution and get stuck with what you are talking about. So, I think that it is better that I do what I really want to do in stead of not following through. Because if I did that I would always wonder what could have happened had I had the courage to do what I wanted instead of what other people wanted me to do.  You know, there was a study with very old people and they asked what they regretted most. It was not what they did that did not turn out that they regretted most but what they did not do. I choose to learn from these people and not people who have not yet learned this lesson.

So, you follow what you perceive is the safe road and me, I will follow my heart. All you have to do is wish me well and then I will know that you are a real friend plain and simple.

[yoe]

... in response to The bottom line - a good message for eve..., posted by greg2 on Jun 30, 2002

bandwith to support your case?
IMHO-I feel that we should all be so lucky as to step outside ourselves and see aourselves in our own light!
But that will never happen. So each of us will yell at each other to stop yelling. we will continue to try to justify not justifying oursleves. And most of all we will all continue to not gracefully acknowledge that we may have been mistaken-
See this board wa designed for people to help each other. But we are animals and love to debate and watch others debate in carnal lust filled post. But I will never forget when these two Russian guys-who I only met 2 times as clients, vounteered to help me move. Most of my AM acquaintances were busy...But I bought these guys a 6 pack and some pizza. They filled a 25 foot truck-ryder that is. I offered them cash-they said, "we are not Americans"! and then laughed. Russians have this type of bond. Try to call some person you met at a diner and ask to help move some furniture-never happen. Have your Russian wife ask the Russian girl she just met at the international market of she has any friends who can help-next day! Now you WILL have to pay these guys, but you get the picture.

Are there any Russians out there who can validate my Claim?
Again my experience!
Joe

[James B]

... in response to To TheSearch re: Emotional Decisions, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 29, 2002

I want to start this message by saying that I have been looking at this site for about 17 months and have enjoyed it immensely.  It has cleaned up quite a bit and I thank Patrick for his attention to keeping it clean.  Sure there are critics that have all the answers about love and compatibility, but no one that I have seen write criticisms really has a firm grasp on this word.  I think it's because everyone comes to the search with different needs and many try to find their soulmate differently.

I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts and understand the feelings that occupy all your thoughts and emotions.  I also am engaged to a woman from Ukraine that I feel the same about as you.  The wonderful thing is that after two years of writing and five visits, these feelings have grown exponentially for both of us.  The feeling that you cannot breathe without another person you love and that your love has incredible passion and emotion is priceless for me.  We think about each other every day and everything that we experienced together has much more meaning.  

You obviously are strong and not affected by the naysayers or critics.  There will be difficulties and situations for compromise as time progresses, but I believe sincerely that a person who is emotional or feels deeply, can also love more deeply.  They can also feel hurt or pain more accutely and that is where kindness and understanding must always be present.  Russian/Ukrainian women have for the most part been considered to be more emotional than most other cultures.  They also put the care of husband and family at the top of their list.  My fiancee is a doctor and when I first asked her if she considered working here in Iceland while I serve in the military, she said no.  She wants only to do everything possible to make me happy and care for the home.  I know that my success in life will be much greater with this kind of support at home and I look forward to going home to a wife who impatiently waits to embrace, kiss and talk late into the night.  Your fiancee is too surrounded by dishonest women who are playing a game with men and will likely hear one or two that will question your sincerity or character or tell her that she should consider writing other men.  Likely, she will not do this because is sounds like she is much like my fiancee and desires only to give all of herself to one man (I must say that when you find a woman like this, they will give you much more than you ever dreamed of).  It's important you create your own little world and don't let anyone penetrate it with negative things.  Actually it's a good lesson for life.  I will always fight for my happiness and will not give the time of day to anyone who tries to sew seeds of doubt with my best friend.

Again thanks for your posts and it's always good to hear someone who is passionately in love with a woman.  It encourages those people who have been looking or those who are considering the thought.

[greg2]

... in response to Re: To TheSearch re: Emotional Decisions, posted by James B on Jun 29, 2002

James,

I am glad to hear all is going well. I did not realize that you had five meetings. That is great. So, when do you think that all will be finalized and you two will be together.

BTW, I have not criticized Mark at all in his choice. My criticism is his use of faulty logic to justify what he is doing. There is not need to justify. To justify only weakens your position. Just do it.

It is common here that if anyone is challenged, they are a troll or they are challenging the process, or the person challenging has a problem.

That is why this is considered the LaLa Land forum by others. But hey, when you are in love life is wonderful. So what the heck. However, when anyone comes with bull logic to support this process, I am not going to sit around and not comment. It does not mean that I do not agree with his choice.

I find it amusing that if I do not support BS logic, then I must not be supportive of this process. How does one mean the other?

If you have to feel justified in what you are doing is all I can figure.

I wish you two the best.

[James B]

... in response to Re: Re: To TheSearch re: Emotional Decis..., posted by greg2 on Jun 30, 2002

Greg,

Thanks for the post and the "well wishes."  After seven months of waiting for NCIS to finally get my papers off someones desk, they off to the the State Department.  I expect that I will hear something in the next six weeks to two months, but hopefully sooner.  I decided to have her start driving school, which takes about 2 1/2 months and I suggest it for anyone who might be in the waiting process, because they can get an international license and learn enough to make the transition to driving in the U.S. easier for them.  She is learning about transmissions, radiators, sign, engine basics, warning lights and just about everything you could think of that a student in Drivers Ed might pick up.

I do agree too that a relationship needs some time and a couple of visits are necessary to know how the relationship will deal with conflict.  My first visit was like a honeymoon, then a couple of disagreements and misunderstandings due to language sobered me up a bit to begin looking at my relationship with both my heart and mind.  I found that our relationship always came out stronger after a difficult situation, because both handled it with maturity and understanding.  I found that I needed to know more about all her characteristics before committing myself fully to a lifetime.  It was for her as well as myself.  We both feel very secure in our love and know that we were created for each other.  I have developed close relationships with her friends and family and we email each other regularly.  They have all attested that she is very unique and a wonderful woman.  The one thing that has happened by communicating for so long is that we started out writing once a day and talking on the telephone two or three times a week.  We are now talking via Iconnecthere because we need now to talk two or three times a day and my telephone bills are about 500 a month.  We have been fortunate that the agency owner never has cost us any money because we are in his words two people who are more in love than any he has seen in six years of business. He is a friend and writes me often and we visit him and his wife when I am in Ukraine.  I have brought my fiancee here to Iceland twice for 40 day visits and it's been nice that I can do it in a country that is less restrictive to tourist visas.  I am in the military and she has had to stay in my little room on the base, but it's cozy and I can experience a taste of my future life with her as my wife.  I will try to post some pictures of her and I in the next couple of weeks and definately will announce the news when our package is approved.  I have many here who have met her and she feels completely like part of the community now.  Some of my co-workers send her email on occasion.  It's actually the perfect transition for her to a new culture, because the base is small and everyone so friendly.  She has a 10 year old daughter and we have a teacher to help with her language development.  

Are you married Greg?  Or in the looking stage?  Thanks for the response and I will be more active in the future, because I do have some experiences that could benefit others and also this site has helped me immensely.