Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency

[Jack]

This is a follow-up I had promised to KenMan and Ryan last week. Because this involved personal letters going between the two parties, I had to get KenMans permission to disclose and discuss, which he did give me. I did not ask for, or receive, any of the first correspondence between then, only what I think are the last one or two.

KenMan had been writing to this one lady for a some what short time but in this time had built some good feelings for this lady. KenMan soon became very upset when he thought he was being scammed. One of the things that bothered him the most was in one letter Elena likes Bowling, in another she does not. In one letter she told of her happiness in watching the Olympics and watching what Ukraine did and winning medals, when in actuality Ukraine did not win any medals. Ken did not like seeing bottles of Champaign in the photo of his girl receiving flowers, as he did not buy a bottle of Champaign!
The day before Woman's Day he get's an e-mail from Lugan Girls reminding him of Woman's Day

I think these are the major reasons that KenMan thinks Lugan Girls should be classified as a scam agency..
...............................................................

Here is Elena's (Ken's lady he was writing too) letter to Ken.  In my opinion not the typical scam letter. She is asking too many personal questions about him and addressing previous questions that he asked.
................................................................

Hello, Kenneth
Nice to hear from you. Thank you very much for the attention to my personality and I think that it is really a good luck that we two have met in the big world of the Internet and our virtual communication will turn into real one day

It was a nice surprise for me to know that you have already been to our city .I think now it will be much easier for us to communicate Of course I have been to the Babylon Bowling Club. I go there time by time and also consider it to be a fun place to go .The only thing I do not like in bowling is that after the game almost all my nails are spoiled.

What are your impressions about Lugansk? I hope that you were not scared of it and the way of life people have here. Were you there on business? Many differences between you own city I guess.

My country as each country has some lacks and advantages. Have you ever been to other cities of Ukraine? Kiev for example or Krim. Krim is one of the best health resorts of our country. Actually I like to travel and visit different places, see different people and do different things, but I have had no possibilities for it. I hope that in future I will.

I am not familiar with the parts of your country and to tell the truth I would like to know more about it. Maybe you will tell me a little bit. I have heard many things about the people, way of life…Maybe it is like the situation you had with Lugansk. I have only heard. I do not know what it true and what is false.

Yes, I have heard of Las Vegas and I am impressed of its beauty

You have asked me about my job. As you know, I am a dressmaker. It means that I create cloth.

I have been asked many times why I decided to choose exactly this job and not another one. The answer is that I want to make the people beautiful, good looking and different. Every one wants to be beautiful but not everyone knows how to do it. I want to help. I am learning how to do it. And, to tell the true, it is a ling and not always easy process. Sometimes I make mistakes, but who doesn’t?

I think that mistakes help us to correct not only the today but also future things. Of course, It is better to learn some rules on somebody’s mistakes, not yours. But if you make a mistake, you will remember it for the rest

Of your life. You know how much it costed you.

Please, tell me more of you,

How do you like to spend your free time?

What is your horoscope sign?

Which foods do you prefer?

Looking forward to hearing from you really soon

Elena

.............................................................................................

Elena, a week or two later, called into agency and read a letter over the phone that she wanted sent to Ken . This letter was translated by an employee.

 
 Hello Kenneth!
I got your letter and flower. Thank you very much for this. That was very
pleasantly for me. You wrote me that you have been to Lugansk. It was
unteresting for me to read about your impression of Lugansk. It is not so
pleasant for me by the that by foreigneth eyes Lugansk looks not so good.
But still I believe that in the future it will be better here, and Ukraine
in general.
 I have never been to the Babylon Bowling Club, I don't like bowling. I like
to dance very much. And I often go to the dancer club. Five years ago I took
my ballet's lessons, but I had to leave them.  I have never also been to the
United States, but I want to see it. Thank you very much that you tell ne
nore about your country.
I have heard so much about Las Vegas, that there are many casinos, and very
beautiful around.
This is one of the richest cities of the United States. I think that the
work in the casino is very interesting, but I have never been there. My work
is very interesting too, and fascinating.
I see many people every day, talk to them, and help choose comfort model for
them, then I elaborate this model and sew one. It is very pleasant to get
many thanks for my work.  I like to design my own cloths; I have many my
dresses, which I elaborate by myself. I sew cloths for my friends too.
Usually I sew men suits, but I can sew women's dresses too.  I love my work
very much. Tell me about your family, friends. Where did you study?  I have
been learning the English language for two years.  It is really very
difficult for me, but very interesting for me. I hope to get your letter and
more about yourself.
I wish you good  day.
I wait your next letter, Elena.

................................................................

So, the translator makes mistake, it happens often!  The translator mistook liked bowling for dis-liked bowling.

Here is the reply from Lugan-Girls after getting Ken's letter to them that they are a scam outfit.

Hello Kenneth,

We understand your feelings about Elena. And we need to explain you the
situation.
The problem is that Elena has to work a lot and as she is short of time, she
has no possibility to come to us as often as she needs, that is why she
phones us so that we can read your letter to her and she tells us what she
wants to answer. Unfortunately, that time the translator mixed the things
about bowling club up and he wrote the answer for your letter on the 9th of
February.
So now we have this unpleasant and terrible misunderstanding.
We want to ensure you that Elena is a very honest and sincere person. And
you are the only man now who is writing to her. Elena is really interested
in writing letters to you.
As you know, Elena speaks English and her English is not bad. SO, WE WOULD
LIKE TO SUGGEST YOU TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER YOURSELF.WE WOULD GIVE YOU HER
ADDRESS WITHOUT PAYING ANY MONEY.
We know that you have had not a good experience with the other agencies from
Lugansk and understand your feelings and the fact that it will not be easy
for us to get your confidence to our agency back
We ask you to apologize us for this terrible misunderstanding.
Now about the photo. This photo was taken on the 14th of February. As you
know it was the Valentines Day, so our office was decorated with balls and
flowers. We also had to make photos of a big number of girls whom their men
sent the presents to.
So directly after Elena we should make a photo of a girl, the present to
whom was a bottle of champagne and a goblet. There was no need to hide
theses things and to put them away. So they appeared in the photo
incidentally
As for the gold medals. Elena took the letter from you without the
translation and answered this question herself. Maybe, she could not
understand it correctly. But you should not blame her for this. You can
discuss all the problems yourself when you get her telephone number.
As for the paying for our service. Each of our clients chooses the way to
pay himself, and the majority of them choose to pay through the our site
explaining it by the fact that it is cheaper.
You have the right to choose and pay for our service, as you want.
We hope that you will understand us.
Always ready to help,
Anna Olsen

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Here is the letter sent to me from Anna at Lugan Girls.

Hello Jack,
We are really sorry that you have got not pleasant information about our agency.
Now i'll try to explain you what happened between us and Kenneth Somers.
Kenneth is already a client of our agency for a long period of time. Kenneth
was here in Ukraine, in our office and i tried to help him in any thing he
needed.  I can say that that Kenneth made this choice himself, to correspond
with the girl from our agency as he saw that how we work with his own eyes
without any betrays and lies.
But it happened so that Kenneth was corresponding also with the girl from
another agency at the same time. And this agency betrayed him.  After this
Kenneth was upset and he took dislike  to any agency in Lugansk. That's the
only reason how we can explain his attitude to our agency.
We really had misunderstanding because of the interpreter, who understood
wrong what Kenneth's girl wanted to say in the letter.  After that we
appologized and offered Kenneth to get for free the address and the
telephone number of the girl who was he interested in. This girl speaks
English fluently and they could communicate without our help. But he didn't
answered us and on the contrary began to search in any our actions something bad, lies...( also the photos that we sent to him, he also didn't like as behind the girl there were a bottle of champagne and a goblet, and also
these gold medals during the Games, the explanations about all these you can see in our letter to Kenneth.)
Jack, i really believe that we try very hard to please Ken but he has in his mind that we are all crooks.
Anna.
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Here is another letter Lugan-Girls wrote me about what had taken place and this included a copy of the letter that Ken sent Lugan-Girls where he wrote a anti-scam site praising Lugan-Girls months earlier.

---------------------------------------------To Author of Scam Alerts,
I am writing regarding Lugan-Girl. I was writing to a girl from Lugansk and
contacted Jack Bragg from "reputable" Agency - First Dream. He gave me a very valuable contact, Elena Piskunova Manager of Lugan-Girl. She checked out the address of the girl free of charge.  I used up a small amount of money I
gave the girl for Internet translation fees. I then asked the girl to
switch over to Lugan-Girl for 50% savings. The girl did not contact Elena.
Instead she tried to give me a sympathy story from Internet site
she had been using, Crosswinds.net and Yahoo.com. Crossroads is on your
"Scam Agencies"!!! Elena then contacted the girl who had a telephone
when she told me she did not. I want to thank your site and Elena
Piskunova for your help. Also the $50 I had sent Miss Piskunova is being
credited for future use. In reality she probably has earned the money as
who knows how much I could have ended up spending on the girl? I had
made plane reservations and am now going to the Ukraine in November.
Instead of visiting the girl who I had initially contacted. I will be
writing and visiting other ones.                    Keep up the GREAT
WORK!
Kenneth M Somers
-----------
Jack, I will be glad to asnwer any other questions as we tried to do our
best. I know we cannot please all the clients though we want it. Please
recommend what to do.
I have contacted 16p6 Evgeniya, she will call me today on the evening and
tell if she is able to go on the party to Kiev.
Sincerely,
Anna Olsen

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And the saddest letter I read while looking into this claim of scam. This is the last letter written by Elena to Ken.

  Hello Kenneth,
  How  are you my  dear?
  Can you name me at least one reason of your not writing to me?
  Your Elena

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To me KenMan may have jumped to conclusion here and in the process terminated a potential relationship that who knows what could have come out of it.

Was this scam! Or was this "Paranoia"?  I think I would have wanted to know for sure before I started hollering scam.

Such a rush to judgment.

If it were paranoia looked at what took place? She seems like a sincere lady to me KenMan. If she were real KenMan was she a keeper?

Again, this is only my opinion, but I still say Lugan Girls is the only honest agency in Lugansk. Almost every week I use this agency to deliver a letter or rose to an address and almost every week we uncover a scam.

This morning we (Firstdream/Lugan-Girls) discovered for one attorney that he was being scammed. He was writing a lady named Lena Fishbein with the agency "Lisa Agency".  Beautiful brunette. This client, as all clients, insisted on having her home address and she gave him her home address. We did a surprise delivery of a single red rose and card and find out the address is the same as several known scammers and ladies who do not exist,.....

LISA AGENCY
90040 Ukraine Lugansk
Alexeeva St., 4/33
380-0642-53-36-26
Marina Kaydalova (director)

I am sure that KenMan is going to disagree with me and indicate that I am too close to Lugan Girls and that I don't want to find anything bad about them or to admit they are scam.  My true feelings are this is a good agency and as such I will continue to use them and to recommend them and to proudly say, that in my opinion, they are the "Only Honest Agency in Lugansk today".

This problem with KenMan and Elena, could it have been avoided?  ....You bet it could have!  In this case most certainly. Lugan-Girls will sell you the address of it's ladies.  WHY go thru an agency when one can communicate directly with a woman?

Agencies have there strength's and weaknesses. The good agencies can always help you to meet real, sincere ladies. The good agency's will help you to get in touch with the lady you have interest in. And once that is done, get the agency the he!l out of the middle!!

[Ryan]

... in response to Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency, posted by Jack on Apr 18, 2002

If you could would you share with us some insight on why you recommend Lugan-girl over other agencies in the area? Have you been to Lugansk yourself to visit the office and talk with the people? What is their success rate of Lugan-Girl in fixing up couples? Are you recommending them based on their ability to provide accommodations only and do you condone or agree with companies that offer money transfer services. What do you like or dislike about lugan-Girl.

At the least has Lugan-Girl ever fixed anyone up and if I could E-mail them to ask them some questions that would be ideal.

[Jack]

... in response to And my question was.........., posted by Ryan on Apr 19, 2002

If you could would you share with us some insight on why you recommend Lugan-girl over other agencies in the area?

.....Easy answer, because it is the ONLY honest agency in Lugansk that I am aware of today, and that I have ever been aware of in Lugansk! To fully understand and appreciate the situation you would really need to know the history of Lugansk and how it has evolved into the scam capitol of Ukraine.

.....There are many, wonderful, beautiful ladies in Lugansk. I am amazed at the number of beauties there, however there are so many scam agencies here. Many of the beautiful women we see from these agencies in Lugansk are not real. Many are only photos of ladies who do not exist. Many real, beautiful, bad girls have been taught the art of scamming and work for 20% of whatever a man will send them thru there scam agency.

.....With the success that one scam agency had in the early to mid 90's, sprung many new scam agencies. From 94 and 95 you had one successful scam agency, it was doing quite well. Many of these ladies were submitting there photos, bios and addresses to Anastasia and European Connection and these two large catalogs were publishing these ladies photos. Anastasia and European Connection did not know these ladies were scammers at the time. Baranova was doing the same thing at the same time from Western Ukraine only she got caught almost two years before people figured out what was happening in Lugansk.

.....At one time I knew all the names and players of the original scam agency in Lugansk and the first two or three that followed. Then it exploded, other people in Lugansk learned of how easy and profitable it was to post the photos of beautiful young ladies, pretend they were these ladies and rake in the dough. American men were the most vulerable.  Julia Petrova, one of the most efficient and well organized scammers of all time started her climb to corruption in 97. By 99 she was netting probably $2000 a month. The agency "Y and B", which stood for, The Young and Beautiful, was scamming a lot of guys, including me. Once caught, they just changed there names!

......Many good women from Lugansk in the mid to late 90"s had no idea that all these agencies were corrupt. Many signed up with these agencies thinking they could help them to meet and marry a foreign man. I personally met a few such ladies who had no idea they had signed up with a scam agency and after discovering this, quickly left the agency.  Lesson to be learned from this,....Sometimes good ladies do sign up with bad agencies!!  They just don't know they are a bad agency at the time they sign up.

......A few years ago Anna met and married a man from Denmark. The man decided he wanted to leave in Lugansk. In trying to figure out what he could do to make a living, he and Anna started a marriage agency.  After about a year and a half he decided he wanted to go back home to Denmark to live so Anna and husband move to Denmark. So here is momma Elena left with a marriage agency with many sincere ladies on the site. Momma Elena was not taught how to cheat at the Lugansk University of Scam, so she did business the only way she knew how, the honest way. During my annual campaign of canvassing new agency's in Lugansk in 2000, I find this new agency. I write them many questions, they responded and I liked the answers. I asked about there history, how they got started, about there ladies. I asked if I could communicate with a few ladies that I would choose at random, this was allowed and my Galena called and talked to a handful of ladies and we felt the ladies were real and sincere.

.....I started using this agency for this or that. First a little work, then more and more. Not one time have I ever been dissatisfied with the results from anything they have ever done. Almost everyweek now, with the help of Lugan Girls, we help a client prove if he is being scammed or not (and a lot are).Over the past two years (or year and a half) they have had a few suspect ladies to join there agency, and with not liking what they saw of these ladies, they were removed from the site. I also have had scammers on my site, some 4 or 5 over the past few years that I can re-call. No site can be 100% scam-proof, all you can ask for and hope for is that an agency will look for signs of scam and do something about it if they suspect scam. Lugan-Girls does these things.

.....I told Elena over a year ago that over time more people would hear of there agency and that to be known as an honest agency in Lugansk would bring them good business. Lugan Girls is doing good business today. Lugan Girls knows how I feel about scam and I send them a lot of business each month. They would not even consider risking the good business they have today by getting involved with, or being part of any scam.

Have you been to Lugansk yourself to visit the office and talk with the people?

.......I have never visited Lugansk. My Ukraine business manager,  has met with Elena, owner, and Anna her daughter. Galina and Rostick both felt, as I do, that these are sincere, honorable and trustworthy people.

What is their success rate of Lugan-Girl in fixing up couples?

......I have no idea as to how to come up with such a figure. I could not even come up with such a success/percentage rate for my own company.

Are you recommending them based on their ability to provide accommodations only and do you condone or agree with companies that offer money transfer services.

.......I recommend them on there ability to do what they say they will do and doing so in a timely manner. I recommend them because they will not knowingly have a scammer on there site. I recommend them because they know they are smack in the middle of the scam capitol of Ukraine, they are surrounded by scam agencies, and yet they have the courage to conduct business in a fair and honest manner.

.......I have no expressed opinion one way or the other about companies that offer money transfer services. By offering such a service certainly would not lower that agency in my eyes as long as they were an honest, ethical agency.

What do you like or dislike about lugan-Girl.

......I think the answer to question number one will apply here.

At the least has Lugan-Girl ever fixed anyone up and if I could E-mail them to ask them some questions that would be ideal.

.....I have sent you an e-mail with that information.

[BrianN]

... in response to And my answers are.........., posted by Jack on Apr 19, 2002

Now THAT was a verbose and extremely detailed response, if I've ever seen one.  Very good!

(the other steve).

[Ryan]

... in response to And my answers are.........., posted by Jack on Apr 19, 2002

n/t

[tim360z]

... in response to Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency, posted by Jack on Apr 18, 2002

I don't know.  Personally,  I don't think the linguistic and translations of agencies may be of the highest caliber...for openers.  So...you can be sure that there will be inconsistencies in the translation.  There are many there who may be able to translate...but,  it is really the nuances and inflections of any language which can be hard to decipher.  I have met a couple UN translators who are Russian and employed by the Russian diplomats and their English was almost flawless and they had a great grasp of nuances.  These are not the people doing your translations,  for sure.  So,  mis-understandings should be normal.

I do have a couple friends in the FSU who have excellent,  but not native English skills.  But communication is quite fluid and smooth.  Another friend,  who thinks she is fluent and who writes very good English...has some real problems with speaking English.  We can communicate pretty well,  but alot is lacking.  And on the telephone I keep everything slow.

There are different levels of proficency and although some Russians will say they are fluent in English...their fluency may be of varying degrees.  Hence,  mis-understandings.  Some small and some big.  Yet,  in Russia,  Russians would think they are fluent.  Even here with native English friends,  sometimes one is not quite sure if your friend just said,  "I do"  or "I don't".  But one picks the context out as they continue speaking.

[BrianN]

... in response to Agencies and Interperters & Proficen..., posted by tim360z on Apr 19, 2002

all too often, my interpreter(s), utilize language and lingo that has absolutely nothing to do with the way that american's talk.

So when they say proficient at "english", it means, we know how english people speak, but don't know a dam thing about america speak, be it bostonian, redneck, valley girl, or that "ya" thing they do up north.

But spock sound's pretty cool on tv though; "that is entirely logical Captain".  We with you would love to speak english.

[KenMan]

... in response to Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency, posted by Jack on Apr 18, 2002

It is your last line that makes all the sense, "get the agency out of the middle". You think what you do I know what I know. I also think the majority of men can make up their own opinions without any influence from the click or gang. Anyways only one on one communication is best. But then again as with Jack Blake's wife is this the tip of the iceberg?? How many other women and men are involved in internet love?

[tfcrew]

... in response to to Jack, posted by KenMan on Apr 19, 2002

Did you mean Robert? I wasn't there either.

[Jack]

... in response to to Jack, posted by KenMan on Apr 19, 2002

I can prove I was not in California last year when that lady was killed!

[KenMan]

... in response to I can prove, posted by Jack on Apr 19, 2002

yes, but I am sure BarryM, KenC, and Patrick will be your alibis... was it the 5th annual picknic or the 6th? That is a major clue!

[Jack]

... in response to Re: I can prove, posted by KenMan on Apr 19, 2002

Our first gathering was in 1997, but it was in Texas, not California. I didn't call it Texas men's appreciation for Russian women Bar-B-Que until the 5th year.

KenMan, we will have our seventh annual Texas men's appreciation for Russian women Bar-B-Que the first week of May in 2003. Beings you are so close in Looseyana, maybe you can make it? With having 55 people attending a few weeks ago, I expect we will have close to, or over, 70 people attending next year.

[KenMan]

... in response to I can prove, posted by Jack on Apr 19, 2002

Sounds like fun time. But let me know in advance so I can get the weekend off...

[wsbill]

... in response to Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency, posted by Jack on Apr 18, 2002

What size shoes do you wear?

While you in the land, make sure you get some decent pictures this time.  Gee, I hope you've got a digital camera with a big memory card (like mine 750 pictures+).

Take pictures of people walking down the street...Whatever then bring it home and burn it on a CD and send it to me and I'll compress the photos and post them for everyone too look at.

Pictures, pictures, pictures... of Soviet life, etc.  

Do you guys out there in cyber land agree...?

[BarryM]

... in response to Follow-up to Lugansk scam agency, posted by Jack on Apr 18, 2002

when he started screaming SCAM without any reasonable explaination to back it up. Nothing he posted made any sense as far as a scam goes.

I'm glad the truth of this unfortunate episode has been revealed.

Good going Jack.

-blm