I need quick input

[Philb]

What are the attitudes of Russian men concerning relationships between American mean and Russian women?  I am not talking about relatives, friends, etc..  But co-workers and the like.

[thesearch]

... in response to I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

I went back to read your trip report (archive 148 date 2/20 for those interested)

I am afraid that I do not think that anyone can give you and real advice here other than someone who might know more about all of this.

You talked more about skiing etc and not about Tatyana other than mentioning that she threw her coat over your head. I know KenC said that this was a concern for him and clearly you responded by commenting that it was disrespectful. However, no one saw this except you and her. This last point is important to me. I am not convinced that it is a red flag.

There are two things that are in conflict. First of all you mention how things seemed just fine relative to her being affectionate etc. Then, you find that she has another ad using a picture taken while you were visiting. If someone was trying to ruin your relationship they would most likely want you to find it. They would not just hope you found it I would not think. So, if someone did do this, they were just hoping that she would find someone else? Well why would they have an ad in English as only someone speaking English would most likely respond - unless they wanted to just confuse her. Now, the ad in Russian, could be to find her a good Russian man.

Is she innocent? She could be. However, evidently you are not wanting to test her by having someone else write to her or you did not read my comment or just choose not to respond.

Only two reasons that I can come up with as to why you would not want to test her. One: you do not want to know the answer at some level. Two: if she is innocent and finds out that you did this it could create a problem for the relationship.

However Phiib, finding her ad is not good, however, now that you have let her know that you found out, you may have lost the truth forever, as she may suspect you might test her and she might be afraid to respond to anyone because of such whereas without a warning she may have responded. I know of at least two guys who have tested women whereby they failed the test.

By telling her what you found out, if you really think about it - what could you accomplish anyway? I mean if she is guilty I doubt that she would tell you "Yea, you got me". All you did is let her know you found this. I mean what explanation could she give you? She came up with about the only possible one I can think of.

Again, if you want to test her, I will be glad to help you. However, you can not wait for ever to do this.

I can imagine how you must have felt finding those ads. I am sure that it did not feel good at all. However, until you find out, you are going to continue to not feel good about all of this.

In your post about your trip - you said that you were planning on marrying her "Unless something weird happens" well you got it.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

Of course they do not like it.  However, there are plenty of girls to go around and I have found most of the girls in the agencies are their rejects anyway - ie. they do not want them, who cares if you get them.

[odeccaman1]

... in response to I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

all guys like to think girls find them appealing but when other guys come around your neighbourhood particularly guys that do not speak your language and have the good fortune of being raised in the west they are in general not popular unless of course they are buying the next round of drinks

[DE]

... in response to not keen on foreigners, posted by odeccaman1 on Mar 5, 2002

So true, the next round is on me.  LOL

[BarryM]

... in response to I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

giving it more time rather than going at it so quickly. You have 3 full months to find out what is going on. Sometimes a little patience and letting her have enough rope to see if she going to hang herself is the wisest option.

-blm

[DE]

... in response to Phil, you ought to consider..., posted by BarryM on Mar 4, 2002

I think he has given her sufficient rope already, however I also agree to play this out further.  Everyone makes mistakes and there will be other mistakes made during the course of marriage.  Forgive and forget may be the best course if she is willing to remove such ads and cop to the fact that she was uncertain, confused, or whatever and just used poor judgement on her part.  Time will certainly tell.  I think it definately calls for a trip over to work this out.  Maybe all can be resolved, maybe all can be forgiven.  Its his relationship and only he can determine if it is worth the effort to continue or cut the losses.  Best of luck to him.

[KenC]

... in response to I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

Phil,
I just asked my wife your question.  She said that RM usually fall into two different catagories on this subject.  One thinks that it is a smart move to get out of Russia because of the lack of opportunities.  They are somewhat jealous that THEY do not have the same opportunities.  The second catagory thinks the girls are prostituting themselves in order to have the opportunity.
KenC

[Philb]

... in response to Re: I need quick input, posted by KenC on Mar 4, 2002

Would they go to considerable effort to destroy a relationship between an Am and RW ?  Would thet post fictitious personal ads and the like?  This seems a bit far fetched to me even for a bunch of computer jocks.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Re: I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

Phil,
In my email to you I said that a jealous man is capable of anything.  But I have to agree with the posters below in that being jealous does not fit this action.  My guess would be that your girl updated her ad herself.  The story sounds like a cover up for her actions.
I like to give everyone the benefit of doubt for some inappropriate actions.  I guess I know that I am far from perfect and I try not to hold anyone to a level of accountability that would be uncomfortable for me.  Now dismissing the story that someone else did it, you have to examine her motivation for the update.  Is she truly not satisfied with her catch(you)?  Or is it just that she had not come to fully realize that she HAD made a commitment to you?  Only you know your comfort level with the sincerity of this woman.  You have to decide.  **Side note- The incident you told of where she threw her coat on your head because you were taking your boots off instead of her coat was a very bad sign.  The disrespect of her actions (and in front of others)is a sign that she has a "princess syndrome" to me.  I believe in being a gentleman, but her actions show that her needs are far more important than yours.  Life with a woman that thinks she needs to be on a pedestal is very difficult.
KenC

[Mike]

... in response to answered too quickly, posted by KenC on Mar 5, 2002

Firstly what I think most men fail to see is that RW have desires in life and there is a big difference in culture. What we expect from a woman when we are dating may not always apply to women from other countries. The facts as I know them are this. She's a 35 year old mother who has to work. She might as well be 50 there. She has children that she wants to have a good future and education, which she may not be able to get for them sense the break up of the old system. She likes Phil enough to at least try to keep him with an excuse. ( that wasn't well thought out ) Phil has came there 2 times and had fun and so did she, as far as I understand he has not gave her any indication how long these vacation dates will continue, and most likely her goals in her life are seriouse, and she wants them to materialize more with each passing day. E-mails and vacation dates are not going to produce love and devotion, it takes risk and action along with time living together ( much time usually )to produce these results, but at least the devotion will be there from that point on ( provided she's not a green card hunter, and at her age and with children it is unlikely! ) I really don't think her crime is that bad from what little I know of her. How does she know he's going to ask to marry on his next trip, or the one after that, and so on.
Mike

[KenC]

... in response to I think your first reply was better., posted by Mike on Mar 5, 2002

Mike,
A lot depends on the status of their relationship.  Did they pledge their commitment to each other?  Or has it been left vague as to where they are at?  If no such commitment has been made, then there is no foul on her part at all.
KenC

[DE]

... in response to Re: Re: I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

Far fetched, in that this would only give her an opportunity to meet more men and surely have a better opportunity in leaving the country which would defeat the initial purpose (or excuse).

[Richard]

... in response to Re: Re: I need quick input, posted by Philb on Mar 4, 2002

You are right in that it does sound far fetched.  Howver, one thought did pop into my mind:  Is there someone there who would be interested in having her stay in Russia.  For example, is there a child involved?  If so, is the father involved with the child and would liike to have the child remain in Russia?

However, as we both said, it sounds far fetched.

[Quasimoto]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I need quick input, posted by Richard on Mar 4, 2002

Why lay a trap with cheese if no one is ever going to smell it? How would this individual have any idea that you might stumble on such a site? I think over the left field fence might be appropriate here.

Steve