Once again every story is different...

[keith]

a cookie cutter approach will not always work...

I decided to reply to what I expected from the "experts" because it may help someone out there who is serious about this adventure. To Ryan, Ramblin and other newbies... I suggest once again to ignore the experts at least those that say they have the one true answer and follow what is good for you and the one you intend to marry.

My personal story involves a woman I found in the Ukraine a bit less than 2 years ago  ... not 10 years ago as Ryan believes... we wrote for a year before I went over to see her last May. I went over to see 2 women because common sense tells you that you will never really know someone until you meet them in person... but if you are serious about writing, and calling on the phone you can get to know them pretty well... the woman that is now my wife had the possibility of emailing 3 or 4 times a week ... this made it possible for us to become very close along with phone and letters in the post... it gave me the confidence to take the chance and take the plunge and go over there still knowing that it was little better than a 50 % chance things would work out... I told myself nothing ventured nothing gained and at least I would have the trip of a life time and see a very interesting place... I tend to look at life from a positive point of view most of the time.
As far as the expert telling you that if you are not rich or if you are poor as a church mouse you should not try this  adventure I say it is your life and I did it... the whole deal for under 5000 bucks...including bringing her here. One of these days I will sit down and try to get a precise figure but right now I am to busy being a newlywed...
Bottom line... I know all you experts out there have good intentions and want to give all of your advice to the newbies to help them... I believe you are sincere as I am... but unless you know the person and all the details you can cause more harm then good... just my opinion... I would say to all newbies to listen to the experts at least with one ear because most of them do have at least some experience and you should think about what they say not as the gospel but for what it is ... the voice of experience... and then go with your gut and make up your own mind... it is your life... and as always
all the best,
Keith

[thesearch]

... in response to Once again every story is different..., posted by keith on Mar 1, 2002

nothing less.

But first congratulations to you both. Please continue to return and post about this second phase of the process. People need perspective regarding this side of the adventure. And, I am sure you will be able to give some advice on this as you deal with it all.

But, back to advice - yes it can bring harm or result in one missing an opportunity. But to not hear advice from those who have been where you have not is more likely to cause harm. The big difference is that with advice you are hearing something that has been valid for the person giving it --- but more importantly you are an individual and you are going to get to decide what is valid for you. Unless you are a sheep - the ultimate follower, you will thus be given more information to make thus an "informed decision". Advice is just information from a prejudiced perspective that may or may not apply to one's given situation.

Everyone should understand this - so I guess we agree but, ---- I still think (I go perhaps go as far to say I know) that not getting involved in the process if you are poor so to speak is more valid than not advice. It is valid because the expense involved is not predictable in the sense that it is not known how many times you will need to travel to find success. Also, more likely than not, your lady will require more expense during her transition or may not be able to help with producing income because of language barriers and to consider is the uncertain amount of time required to prepare her for the working world. So, if a person realizes that the $5,000 they can afford might not do it - they can proceed knowing this -instead of coming back and saying - if I had known it could be this expensive I would never have done this.

You, succeeded almost with little interference relatively speaking. This is not going to be the experience of most IMHO. For you to advise anyone to ignore the advice you mention - would be setting up followers of your rule for disappointment more than happiness. I am not saying that you are advising this but there is the implication of such in your post as I read it. All you can say is that it can happen for someone as it did you with little expense.

Now, if you had not gone because of the advice about funds - you would have missed out. So, it was best for you to not follow good advice but to gamble.

However, and please do not take this wrong as I wish the best for you and you wife, but you have only been successful at the easiest part of this. Almost anyone can bring a lady over here. Even an idiot. As LP says call me in 5 to 7 years and then we can toast to success if that still is your perception.

[keith]

... in response to advice is advice and nothing more, posted by thesearch on Mar 1, 2002

Just curious... have you brought a lady over here? do you have experience with texas and warsaw?? etc.... are you married?... if so congrats...if not....... I would disagree with your statement that it is an easy process to bring your fiancee here especially after Sept. 11. It requires one to be somewhat more intelligent than an idiot and a lot more intelligent than someone sitting on the fence watching the world go by... jealous of those who try and succeed and scornful of those who try and fail... but always critical of those who try... now I am not saying you fall into this catagory... just something that I interpreted from your letter... whoops... that is wrong of me to feel that you implied something that you probaly did not mean... lol sounds familiar eh... sorry just having fun with ya... all the best... happy friday night to all
Keith

[thesearch]

... in response to hmmm almost anyone can bring a lady over..., posted by keith on Mar 1, 2002

I think we are on the same page here.

No, I have not brought anyone over yet. I would if I found the right one. I did the one lady approach, thought that we were a possibility, went a second time to find that she and I were really not meant for each other. A lot of time and money with no results. That is just life. I am not upset about it or regretful, at first disappointed but ultimately thankful that I found out then and not later. Took a little steam out of my drive for a while but not for long. I will go again this year most likely.

You are absolutely correct an idiot would have a lot of trouble with the paper work. I am no idiot and I have to admit I am not looking forward to that part when and if I arrive there. But an idiot could hire an attorney if he wanted. But, my point is more directed at the getting a woman to come here to marry you.

In your other post below you said (referring to me) sounds like someone who is afraid to take the plunge. At some level you are correct, but not really in that when I meet the correct woman that will vanish in a heartbeat.

I wish you two the best and once again, I for one would like to hear about the process of transition that you both go through, including stories of the cure things your lady does in the process.

[keith]

... in response to advice is advice and nothing more, posted by thesearch on Mar 1, 2002

Good letter-- and for the most part I agree with what you are saying though once again I would direct you to what I actually said in my letter and not what I implied or what you interpreted. I never said ignore the experts... I said listen with one ear and then follow what you know from your intimate knowledge of the facts (i.e. the nature of the relationship you have with the lady in question). My point is for everyone to take the advice including any advice I might be offering with the knowledge that no one except the 2 people involved in the relationship are in the position of knowing what is the right way to proceed... I do not offer my experience of finding a woman and bringing her here for under 5000 bucks as something everyone can do but I would also say that anyone that says you have to be rich to find a woman there is also not something that is always required... once again for all those out there looking... there is no one right way of doing this... once again as I said before listen to others but dont let it stop you from trying if it feels right to you... do not run up debt on your credit card... have some money because yes it does take some money but dont think you have to be wealthy to do it because it is not always so... depends on you and on your woman... next statement about waiting to ask me in 5 to 7 years or whatever to see how things are going... you will excuse me because I dont want to offend but that sounds to me like someone afraid to make the plunge... yes I am fully aware that I have no idea what will happen in the future... so far it has been a dream but who knows ... I am not arrogant enough to say Oh this will last forever... I certainly hope and pray it does but no one knows the future... but I am glad that my fear of failure did not stop me from taking the chance because after all is said and done living a good life requires you to take a chance otherwise you sit for the rest of your life alone in your chair watching football with no one to hold you close when your life is hard and no one to give your love and help to when they need it... at the very least I got into the game... win or lose... was tired of sitting on the bench.. LOL had to through in a football metaphor... now since this letter has already become very long.... here are some thanks to some of the people on the board.. #1 has to be Dan because he gave great advice about the logistics of getting to my destination etc., Rostick and Jack- my safety net, Flyboy- havent heard from him for awhile but he was a big help and inspiration, Ken C. was encouraging when I first got into this planet love thing, and there are a few more that unfortunately I have forgotten at least for the time being their names... some were as much help or more then the ones mentioned... so yes I listened and learned from many experts but fortunately I had the confidence to follow my own drummer sometimes too... this is the summation of what I was trying to say... and once again
all the best,
Keith

[keith]

... in response to Re: advice and nothing more and more LON..., posted by keith on Mar 1, 2002

how could I forget Rags... we were doing the Texas-Warsaw shuffle together for awhile...  another guy that just did it without listening to all the prophets of gloom and doom... way to go Rags!!  
Keith

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Once again every story is different..., posted by keith on Mar 1, 2002

Keith,

I think everyone is delighted for you.

But, the "experts" are all just sharing their stories and their beliefs.

Just like you did just now.

For every guy who can say like you did that they wrote just one lady and went over and found love, I can find ten who will tell you that it didn't work for them.

Everyone on this board should read what everyone says... and then decide what fits them.

Even if the advice is sound... it doesn't mean that you can do it.

I personally couldn't do 7 dates a day like Jack was doing... but that doesn't make his method wrong. Actually, it makes a lot of sense. I just couldn't do it.

Nor could I go on a tour. It's just not me.

But don't be so hard on the "experts". Much of the avice on here is very solid, and has helped many, many people.

If you took the number of successes that have come from this borad, I'll bet you would find that the percetnages are MUCH better than those guys who are simply hitting some agencies web page and then going alone...

The information on this forum IS helpful. It just needs to be taken in whole... don't find one "guru" and follow them exclusively.

Not even me :-)

[keith]

... in response to Thanks --- but your story doesn't dispro..., posted by MarkInTx on Mar 1, 2002

Mark, I think you are either not reading carefully what Im saying or misinterpreting it... my only bone I am picking with the "experts" is they are making a diagnois without "seeing" the patient. I would agree that some guy that writes a girl in Ukraine or Russia where the turnaround time for a letter is at least a couple of weeks which means after a year maybe the girl has gotten about 12 letters or so is not a good way of doing it... but if the girl has email and you are able to make a serious bond with the girl then it is a different story... it is also a different story with each couple because human relationships are much more complicated then you or I will ever understand...

Interesting note : the english teacher at the local government school for immigrants I am taking my wife also told me he met his wife over the internet and by the way he wrote to her for 10 months before meeting her... interesting twist to the story he was in south america at the time( he is american) and she was in the states.. she came down in the summer to visit him and they got married shortly after... hmmm good thing there wasnt an expert to tell him he was doing it all wrong  LOL

by the way I am not saying those that say go meet the girl as soon as you can are wrong... im just saying different strokes for different folks... whatever works for you is the right thing... if I was advising someone who had lots of money I would say go over there and visit a bunch of girls and come back and write for awhile and then narrow it down to a couple go back spend some time with them and then go for it... or something like that but I didnt have the bread to do it and maybe it was for the best because I found my wife doing it my way...  also it doesnt hurt to have someone like Jack to help you out - he helped me find a flat and both him and Rostick were a big help.... oops sorry experts got to go my wife is calling,
all the best  LOL  keep smiling
Keith

[Jack]

... in response to Thanks --- but your story doesn't dispro..., posted by MarkInTx on Mar 1, 2002

Mark, NEVER seven (7) in a day, four (4) in a day yes, once or twice five in a day, but never seven! 11am, 2pm for two light lunchs. 5pm and 8pm for two light dinners. Four 2 hour meetings with each meeting three hours apart.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Nyet !!, posted by Jack on Mar 1, 2002


I thought you had worked out seeing more a day than four.

I didn't mean to say that was a bad thing.

OK... only four... my bad...

[Ryan]

... in response to Nyet !!, posted by Jack on Mar 1, 2002

YES!!!  Hey Jack, how are you?  How is business going do you see your market in sort of a slump right now?  Just a question not being a smart A.. or anything...  Just wanted your view.
Ryan

[Jack]

... in response to Re: Nyet !!, posted by Ryan on Mar 1, 2002

Ryan,

 Glad to see you posting more reasonably lately, good for you! About business, I can't stay caught up. Things I used to be able to do the same day are now taking three days before I can get to them.

 Over the past year I have seen fellas who had marginal  funds have to postpone getting involved with there pursuit for a Russian bride. I think the stock market has effected many guys who had some money a year ago. The guys who have the capitol have not been effected. Our business continues to grow and I do no advertising, it's mostly word of mouth business and the business that the trolls send my way with all the bad mouthing of me and the company. Whereas I used to have one or two guys everyday in some part of the FSU, now we have three and four guys somewhere everyday.

 I think the big three, European Connection, Anastasia and AFA have seen there better days as far as the big socials are concerned. For each it is becoming harder to find the number of guys they used to find. There have not been any of the 55 to 60 guys per tour group for some time now. This past winter European Connection cancelled it's socials in St. Petersburg because it did not have enough guys. Anastasia, after hearing this, jumpd all over the situation and went forward with there St. Petersburg social a few weeks later and has boosted that they (Anastasia) have never had to cancel a social so they could rub it into the nose of European Conection. Yes, Anastasia went forward with it's St. Pete social, and do you know with how many guys?.......six! Six guys went, but Anastasia didn't have to cancel!! As you guys become more educated to the process I think fewer guys will be making the large meat market, scam filled socials.

 And I will tell you who else is doing more business these days,....the scam agencies! You guys only see the tip of the iceberg I think. You won't believe how many American guys everyday go to these sites like American Singles, Absolute Agency, Kiss.com looking for nice American women and see these young, beautiful Russian women and write them. They have not heard the term scammers as we know it and so many of these guys never knew what hit them and a large percentage, probably 75%, are so ashamed they were scammed that they never tell anyone. We only hear of a small percentage of the guys getting scammed.

 But business is good Ryan. Let me know if you need a good flat in the center of Lugansk when you go, I think it will cost $35. My advice to you, don't let one of these ladies get your flat for you, get your flat independent of any of the ladies you are going to see.

[Ryan]

... in response to daaa, posted by Jack on Mar 1, 2002

Thanks for the info Jack..  I have a flat in the Center area of Kiev near Independence square off a street near Mc'd's.  I made friends with this old lady last year, (Mailed a bunch of letters to her friends here in the states for her) she rents me a place.  She just loves me, (I'm just so cute) and she also tries to fix me up. (I keep ducking and don't really want her help).  But anyway ya she has my flat waiting for $50 a day.  It's nice and I feel real safe and comfortable their.  I also have a pickup at the airport lined up for $20 not sure about that as last year I paid $50.  I don't want to pay $50 this year I don't feel like it was worth it, as I don't think the airport was that far from the downtown city area.  I feel more confident to hagel to get a cheeper price if I have to...  But anyway, ya I have my ducks on a row this year and I feel so much more comfortable as it is my second trip.

Thanks for the info, I wanted to know if I was competing against more guys searching this year or not.  I just had the gut feeling that it was less men actually going over this year because of 911 and the stock market etc...
Ryan

[Stan B]

... in response to Re: daaa, posted by Ryan on Mar 1, 2002

there is no one to compete w/ except yourself. Be the best that you can be and don't worry about anything that you can't control.

[Natalya]

... in response to Once again every story is different..., posted by keith on Mar 1, 2002

just as you I'd like to let people know my point of view.I still say that poor "as church mouse" man shouldn't even start looking for RW. How in the world he's planning to support her? I know few of my Russian girlfriends, who had married such guys.Now there life nothing but the misery.Constant struggle to survive,lack of language make these women and their husbands miserable.Recently I had read message on Russian Women abroad forum from RW who seeking advice from other women on subject that her American husband pushing her to sell her house in Ukraine in order to pay for expenses associated with bringing her here.How is that? Needless to say no one RW advice her to do as husband asks and many of them doubt that anything good could happen from this marriage. I'm not saying that all AM are like this. But from RW point of view I'd rather be married to poor RM and leave in my country where still my friends,family,work then to poor AM and have nothing than I named above.