Safe to say my girl was a scammer

[LP]

... in response to Safe to say my girl was a scammer, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 6, 2002

...your part in all this? Don't mean to kick ya while you're down but you need to accept some things on your side, to prevent this from happening again.

1) Kharkov?

2) 19 years younger?

3) Initiate the K1 after so short a time, after *one* meeting?

Then:"I figured I would get the paperwork set for her plus learn about her via email over the months...." Huh??

Sophisticated? I perceive her a rookie. If she was sophisticated she would have gone all the way and stuck it to you after she was here. Or played you a lot longer. Count your blessings, you be a lucky man.

You've never heard of this "scam"? It's one of the most common and easiest to pull off. Why? Well, desperate people do desperate things, on both sides. Its also why the trolls have a field day when these methods are employed. Sorry, but it seems to me you were somewhat of an easy target.

As long as people fail to conduct these things as "normal", albeit long distance relationships, people will continue to get burned. Rushing to solve any "problem" as quickly as possible will do you in every time.

Having said that, I admire your fortitude to post the details and aquire the perspective to shoulder some blame, thus learning from it.

[WmGo]

... in response to What about...., posted by LP on Feb 6, 2002

My thoughts exactly - except your last sentence (I agree with Tania about the man taking his misadventures like a man and not publicly talking about it). Why someone would initiate the k-1 process after one meeting is an utter mystery to me. And I think that women under 25 years old should not even be considered in the first place. Its just asking for trouble.

[KenC]

... in response to Safe to say my girl was a scammer, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 6, 2002

Bobby,
I know you may have your mind made up but take a deep breath and think logically about your situation before you bail.  First forget about your gifts.  They should not be added to your "expenses".  You wanted to make her feel good by giving her something unexpected.  You certainly cannot hold that against her now.  
Secondly, I would imagine that converting a Russian passport to Ukrainian International WOULD be an expensive thing to do.  When you consider that the girl lived in so many different areas of the country and even outside the country.  The police report required for a K-1 will be a very tough nut to crack in her case.  Again, it is not the girl's fault, but just her circumstance.
Thirdly, we have heard more than one story here about people being hospitalized in Ukraine for the flu and such.  Deckard even had to go to the hospital during the same period of time that you are talking of.  A very plausible story and SHE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PAY FOR IT.
Fourthly, many R/W believe any gossip about visas and what their friends tell them about such things.  I know I had to squelch more than one such story when my wife was still in Russia.  You have to make her understand that the K-1 is tried and true and a much more reasonable way to go.  Just bear in mind that my wife came to America on a STUDENT VISA.  So, it is very possible.  The costs do not seem to be too far out of line either.

I suggest that, if you really do care for this girl, you play your hand out a bit further before you throw in the towel.  Make her understand that YOU understand and KNOW that a K-1 is the best for the two of you.  Have her send you the documents and take it from there.  Don't send her any more money and see what happens.
KenC

[WmGo]

... in response to Hold on a second, posted by KenC on Feb 6, 2002

Ken,
I have also found it very amusing how FSUW believe everything they hear as if it were the gospel truth. I have had many a comical conversation with FSUW trying to convince
them that they have fallen for a myth - but they are *so* stubborn to concede! If it is about some place outside their country and they *heard* it is has got to be true! LOL

WmGo

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Gossip, posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

n/t

[Bob S.]

... in response to Hold on a second, posted by KenC on Feb 6, 2002

$1200 actually sounds about right for the cost of a quicky student visa.  If you check the price of private language schools such as Kaplan, Berlitz, Geos, and others, the cost to apply, file for a student visa, 4 weeks tuition, room & board, and transportation can run anywhere from $1000 to $2000.  These schools fill up with people from all over the world.  And student visas can sometimes be extended. (I knew people in this area who came in on student visas, keep them current by enrolling in minimum required night classes, but work full-time day jobs {which may not be entirely legal, but that's another matter}.)  True, just because she applies for a student visa, it doesn't guarantee she'll get it.  But her friend did and told her she could also so that makes it as true as if the Almighty Himself told her to do this!

Sixthly, RW, God love 'em, simply do not understand money and Western finances.  In FSU countries, where a person can go months on the job without getting paid, a job can feel mostly like something that just keeps you busy.  For the average guy here, $1200 may represent a gross week's pay, but half of that goes to the gov't and the other half goes to the bank that owns your mortgage and title on your car.  It may take weeks or months to save up an extra grand in cash.  Does she care about that?  As Tania said above, RW care about romance, not about money.  That may sound sweet, but let's face it, unless both parties are ready to deal with these cold hard practicalities of life, they are not ready for a lifetime commitment.  It does not mean she is a scammer, but rather most likely a little girl with pie-in-the-sky fairy tale dreams of a wealthy and generous prince charming and is not ready for marriage.

[KenC]

... in response to Fifthly..., posted by Bob S. on Feb 7, 2002

n/t

[John K]

... in response to Fifthly..., posted by Bob S. on Feb 7, 2002

I can understand the money sentiment.  My wife still has a hard time understanding the concept of a budget.  That, and the idea of income taxes drives her crazy!  Why should I give a third of my income to the goverment?  Needless to say, I don't talk too much about taxes with my wife.  Why frustrate her needlessly?

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Hold on a second, posted by KenC on Feb 6, 2002

Thank God you met your wife... or you may have been taken for a bundle.

I think Bobby has this one nailed. Any ONE thing in his story is reasonable. When you put it all together, this is fiction made up by a creative scammer.

There's an old saying:

"When you hear hoofbeats, don't look for Zebras. Look for horses."

This one is a scammer stampede.

Bobby, you're smart. Cut your losses...

[KenC]

... in response to Ken... you're too nice, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 7, 2002

Mark,
Loved your zebra analogy.  Maybe you are right and things will not work out for Bobby, but where is the scam?  All I see is that the passport expenses were higher than planned.  She didn't ask for money for her stay in the hospital..did she?  The alternate plan of student visa is a valid one too.  Like I said above, she may be being misled by others there.  When Lena was still in Russia, she told me point blank that there was no way to get a student visa.  Her source of information was friends and friends of friends.  I researched it on the Net on the INS pages and thought we had a shot at it.  I had to convince her to do it.  Thank God she talked to some advisors at her university because they confirmed what I had thought.  Well, that is exactly how she entered the US; on a student visa.  

What I don't understand is that a guy like Ryan gets milked for 4 grand and still doesn't think he was scammed and now Bobby's girl needs a couple of hundred more for passports and paperwork and she is branded a scammer.  Doesn't make sense to me.
KenC

[thesearch]

... in response to probably, posted by KenC on Feb 7, 2002

You see Ken does not have the experience of the scammer personally only vicariously. I am talking about the FSU ladies here. Although he is intelligent and understands these issues - a guy will simply be different after negative experiences more likely than not each time he trys something again that caused him pain.

The more times you get sunburned the more quickly you remember to put that sunscreen on to prevent it. When I first started traveling to destinations like Hawaii I did not use sun screen right away - I waited till I saw indications that such was needed. Well, after realizing that this did not always work with the application of sunscreen sometimes being a day late and a dollar short - I started using sunscreen as soon as I arrived at my sunny destination. I had to learn by getting burned. I think that many guys here are like this. Men who have never been burned more likely than not will be more trusting than guys who have been burned many times at home as well as with a few FSU women. They can shift from the edge of the spectrum of being too trusting to getting too defensive even cynical. We are all like Pavlov's dogs in some sense.

I think this lady is a scammer but Ken could be correct. Sometimes situations will emulate what a scammer would do and the lady is innocent. With the one lady that I had a great deal of time and experience with, some events surfaced that pointed to her potentially being a scammer. I reacted with defensive positioning and damaged the relationship by my actions. She was not a scammer.

As far as Ryan not thinking that he was scammed - I can not comment but from all he has written, I think he was. I commend him for not going on the attack but if he did not learn from it, he needs a care taker and his passive attitude is not an asset but a mental deficit and someone needs to protect that boy.

But, Ken is correct about it varies greatly what a guy will call a scam.

[BarryM]

... in response to Ken could be right but me thinks most li..., posted by thesearch on Feb 7, 2002

I don't always agree with Ken but I respect his opinion in these matters. I do listen and what I get from him is that I should be a little more flexible and open-minded because every situation is different. I may argue the point with him on some of these issues but I do keep at least one eye open to his arguments.

-blm

[tim360z]

... in response to probably, posted by KenC on Feb 7, 2002

they are a good alternative if the girl has solid academic credentials ( things a little tighter since 9/11).  K-1 is good,  but in some situtations a student visa or a B-1 is even better.  Also,  there are intern and work travel exchange programs which allow for a 4-6 month stay with paperwork for immediate employment.

[BarryM]

... in response to Ken C is correct on the student visa's a..., posted by tim360z on Feb 7, 2002

there was a vocational school or college for foreign students to study English. I think you have to have been admitted to a school before you can get a student visa. This may be an alternative(albeit expensive) to a k-1. I don't have a link.

-blm

[Dan]

... in response to I saw somewhere where..., posted by BarryM on Feb 7, 2002

Of programs that cater to foreign students wishing to come to America to study English. They provide assistance to prospective students in acquiring the necessary visas (I-20, I believe).

It is definitely worth looking into.

- Dan