Overdue trip report.........

[Mark H]

Well I'm back and my trip report is overdue. I'm on a remote rotation and don't have computer access at home so I wasn't able to post until now. What a trip, where to begin.

I left spain and arrived in Kiev just after midnight on day one. Ilya from firstdream.com was in the airport to meet me with a sign. I was the first one out of the baggage claim so it was easy to spot me. Ilya is a great guy and a wonderful interpreter. I did not meet Rostik so i can't comment on him. Ilya had a driver and we split the airport quickly. It was cold as heck and snowing like crazy. Living in the great lakes region....no sweat for me. I was dead tired from lack of sleep with my spanish relatives and too much partying. The apartment was nice but quite far from Kreshatik (spelling?) Ilya dropped me off and would call in the morning. He did. I had a date set up with a girl from firstdream.com at 1:00 PM.

I want to stop here and preface this email with the following statement. Jack Bragg and firstdream.com delivered all they said they would on this trip. I have no complaints with their service.

The girl I had lunch with was quite gorgeous and spoke excellent english. For some reason we could only meet at this "certain" place. It was also quite convenient that the restaurant she wanted to go to was "right there". We went up the elevator to a very posh restaurant and had lunch. We chatted and talked for almost 2 hours. She was interesting but full of crap. She gave me some slop about not being able to get married legally for two years because of her fathers job with the government. However, we could get married in Ukraine and I could support her for the two years until she could apply for american visa. What a joke. Total scammer and YES she was off of jack's beloved site. Lesson here is that scammers are everywhere, including firstdream.com. No offense Jack but it is true. I don't think jack would EVER scam anyone and will be upset when he reads this. By the way, lunch came to $115 bucks. Beware of Milena, the 23 year old on firstdream.com.

I left lunch and went to my first agency that jack works with. It was some ladies house. I sat on her couch and looked through photo albums of girls. There were only about 6 who interested me. I met all of them over the course of the next few days. i was supposed to go to Dnepropetrovsk that night on the train but decided not to go. I only had 6 days in country and didn't want to spend nights on a train. So, I cancelled this portion of the trip. I had already sent prepaid deposits to jack's people in dnepropetrovsk and did not ask for the money back. jack blew a gasket because I didn't go. Caught me by surprise but whatever.

I decided to post this for the new guys as much as the old. jack's company will take great care of you regarding transportation, accomodations, etc... I think the agency contacts are very weak. The second agency I went to consisted of a lady who met me in a pub with some books. I went out with 2 of her girls, both professional daters. You see, it costs you $15 bucks to meet one of the girls. They got a good thing going in that a guy spends the $15 bucks, the girls get a great lunch or dinner and the guy is left in the end with nothing. jack, you need to realize that the second agency is a scam. Sorry but it is. The girls are not serious at all. The first lady Tamara was good but her pickens were too slim for a city the size of Kiev. To be honest, this is why I didn't go to dnepropetrovsk. I didn't need to travel two days by train to sit on another couch and meet girls who aren't serious.

My advice: seek a LARGE reputable agency in a city and go with them. Spend the money and meet some serious girls. it's imperative to have a database that is large to accomodate your interests. If you already have a girl picked out and want to visit her, you cannot go wrong using Jack's company. His people are excellent and will take good care of you. If you are going to meet girls, I recommend a big company in one city with alot of girls in their database. I met with 7 or 8 girls, can't remember exactly and only two or three were serious. I felt the rest wanted a free dinner.

There are many companies who will provide transportation, apartments, and agency contacts. it's up to the individual to decide what a company needs to do for them. Remember you are the consumer and you decide what you do, where you go, and when you go. If a company cannot accomodate that, find another one.

Also, it's time to face the facts. This board is supposed to be a forum for exchange of ideas and help. I think "help" has been pimped into "business" for certain individuals. I think it's time to end the lie that some people are just here to "help" newbies when in reality they are drumming up business for themselves. No one on this board is going to "help" anyone out of the goodness of their heart in any way other than advice. Once you leave advice, it is business and it is solicitation as far as I'm concerned. Be careful in your dealings and good luck to all who continue their search.

As for me, I'm writing one girl I met and she is quite wonderful. As I said before, I have no complaints with the service I received from firstdream.com and their employees. I'll lurk around once in a while but I won't be posting much. Good luck to all the good guys in their search.

Mark H.

[Ramblin]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

I can relate to both sides as far as the cancelled portion of Mark's trip is concerned.  When I was in Kiev, I telephoned Brian C. about my missing luggage and it was late on a Sunday night and that was my main concern as I had been without it for two days already.  When he asked how it was going, I mentioned that my original plans A and B had fallen through and I was trying to get contacts for an interpreter and an apartment.  He said he would call Jack.  Jack telephoned me at the apartment that I had gotten for three days and said that he could get me an interpreter and a good apartment.  He did so, and I considered it a tremendous help that started to turn my bad luck around.  However, Jack went on to offer further help, and please keep in mind that it is late, and all I'm thinking about is my luggage and meeting some ladies.  He goes into turbo mode and says I want you to visit this agency and that agency and then get a photo to me and I'll see if I can find some ladies that are interested in you in this other city that I mentioned I might want to visit for the second half of my trip.  Unlike Mark, I did not send any deposit and thought of it as a possibility and not anything agreed to except to try to get a photo to Jack.  Later, I told Rostick and Ilya to let Jack know that I would be staying in Kiev my whole trip.  So it seems to me that this type of thing could end up being a recurring problem for Jack and his people.  So here is what I would recommend Jack if you are reading this, just increase your deposit requirements and do not take anything as a commitment for a guy to be in any city until the deposit is paid and then if he doesn't show up for whatever reason, make sure that your deposit is enough to cover any trouble that your people have gone through.  That's what deposits are for.  Jack, even though Mark's plans were much more definite than mine, you need to allow your clients to be more flexible in my opinion.  And don't let any ladies take time off from work or anything like that until the guy is in the city and ready and willing to meet that lady.  I don't know how much you will need to increase your deposit requirements, maybe you could do it by trial and error and see if half the rent in advance or maybe less would work.  I think if a guy reserved a place for a month and paid for 15 days in advance or reserved a place for a week and paid for 4 days in advance and then didn't show, that money would go to the landlord and he or she would be compensated and would still have the possibility of renting it out.  If a guy failed to show up for a small social, his deposit should cover your costs of setting up the party and as far as the ladies being disappointed, I think they should be prepared for that possibility.  There are no guarantees in any of this.  Some ladies cancelled on me for prearranged meetings, and it didn't bother me in the least.  I went to one agency and picked out 16 ladies and they telephoned all of them and said that 7 of them were available to meet me at a social.  I paid $250 for the social and only one of the 7 ladies showed up and she was the most depressing lady and she left early.  Luckily I danced with a half a dozen beauties at that social, and met one really excellent lady about the time it ended.  Out of the dozen or so ladies that I met during the two weeks, I dated 5 of them and found 4 of those to have a lot of potential.  My trip report is very long and might be made into a movie.

[BarryM]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

One thing for anyone new that can come out of your trip report it that if you don't plan ahead, you're not going to have as successful a trip for your money. One thing I find interesting is your experience with Milena. I think we should get a list of restaurants NOT to go to because of the expense and a list of good reasonable restaurants in the respective cities. I for one, am a cheapskate on the first few dates and I don't mind being up front about it to any prospective date. I've learned a long time ago that you don't have to spend a lot of money to have a good time and a meaningful date.

Perhaps Jack and some of the other vets can compile a list of do's and don't's to rein in some of these free-spending RW including a restaurant list. Also a list of decent nightclubs that are NOT a mafia or prostitute hangout.

I can understand your dismay at only being able to see "professional" daters on your trip, but what do you expect from such short notice and bad planning? You could have always gone down to the local Orthodox Church and make some friends with the babushkas and treat them to a good meal. They might return the kindness by doing a little matchmaking on a personal level with some very nice girls. My Russian friends have advised me that this a good avenue to take for Orthodox Americans in addition to the assistance from Jacks organization.

Personally, I think you wasted a good trip by not listening to Jack's advice from the start. You should have gone to Dnepropetrovsk as scheduled. You messed up some fine plans for you by many people by your stubborness. You gambled on Kiev and you lost. Too bad.

I do with you luck on your next outing and I hope reason and patience will prevail from now on with you.

-blm

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: Lessons learned..., posted by BarryM on Jan 12, 2002

Its not fair that babushka will matchmatch for Orthodox Americans while the rest of us have to use agencies.ITS NOT FAIR ITS NOT FAIR.

( just kidding you Barry, church is a great place to meet your lady)

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

What you found echos my trips.  The low hanging fruit has been picked.  The truly outstanding girls are few and far between in large cities.  In large cities many more girls have high almost American women like expectations.  The big city girls know the deal and often are tarnished.  You need to go to the more out of the way places to find the gems.

[Rags]

... in response to I appreciate the Honesty, posted by Bobby Orr on Jan 11, 2002

This guy will have to find some low hanging fruit 'cause he is one wee little self centered boy.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to I appreciate the Honesty, posted by Bobby Orr on Jan 11, 2002

Your part about large agencies I disagree with.  I think you are better with the smaller agencies because from my experience you get more personalized, attentive service.  It seems to me that the agency who worked with you did an excellent job.  Your mistake was staying in Kiev.  You probably would have had much better luck in Dnepeprovsk (that is one word I still can not spell or say in either English or Russian).

[Rags]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

Mark, you must be a real self centered @sshole to just blow off the commitments that you made in Dnipro because it didn't suit YOUR plans. What about the other people involved here?

You didn't even make the effort to call and let them know that you weren't coming? My guess is that Galina probably spent hours on a freezing cold train platform waiting for you. Making calls and talking to train attendants to try to find out what happened to you. And what about the ladies that you were suppose to meet. Don't they have lives and feelings too? What a jerk! You really set a good example for those that follow.

I personally hope that you do get scammed BIG TIME because the way that you are going about this is just asking for it. Besides, it would serve you right to get F$#@ed over the way you see fit to do this to others.

Yeah, go to those LARGE Agencies and see how they treat you.

BTW, there are people on this forum who only wish to help out others without asking anything in return. Jack tried to give you hand and you screwed over his people and clients. I for one, do hope that you go away. Far away!

[Jack]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

Hello Mark,

 I guess I need to explain one thing to you and would like to explain a few things to the other readers of the board. I will try to do such in a civiled, respectful manner as I would like to explain to others why I felt I had to ask you not to use FirstDream or it's services and personal any longer.

 As you will re-call Mark I was not in favor of you making this trip when you did and with the little time to prepare as you had. And after voicing my opinion, you decided on going anyway at this time and just to consider it a little trip and for me to do whatever I could for you.
 
 You told me that you did NOT want to stay in Kiev, you have been to Kiev before and wanted to concentrate your efforts elsewhere, in another, smaller city. After discussing some cities with you that we could do some positive things in with the limited time you had, YOU elected to go to Dnepropetrovsk, and to again, spend as little time as possible in Kiev. These were your own words and wishes. I admit that I had to talk you into spending a couple of days in Kiev as I thought you would be able to meet a few ladies of interest but primarily I wanted you to be able to see some of Tamara's ladies in Kiev. I am surprised that she only had 6 ladies that interested you, most men find from 15 to 20, but at least you had 6 ladies to meet in the two days you had planned for Kiev, not too bad if you asked me. And if you had interest in 6 and were able to meet all 6, you did very well in my opinion.

 Before I go further I need to explain one thing to you Mark. I am probably the reason why Milena was, as you put it "full of crap". Milena had told Rostick four days before your arrival when he called to see about arranging a meeting between the two of you that she didn't know anything about you. She didn't know your age, or what you did, etc., etc., as I guess these things were not written in your letters to her. Rostick's words to me was he didn't think Milena was going to meet you. I knew how excited and pumped up you were to meet her Mark and so I told Rostick to call Milena, tell her that Mark was in his early 30's, in the medical profession, and for me, ask her to please meet with Mark. Maybe, and probably, I should not have done this Mark but I was hoping if she would just meet you she might take a liking to you. I think there are many ladies who will like you if they met you and so to me it was worth the gamble. So I am probably the reason she was "full of crap" as her full of crap was more than likely small talk as she probably was doing something she didn't have her heart in and it was probably a judgment error on my part Mark.

 And in defense of 'scammer' Milena I will say that a handful of guys have met Milena and everyone but you have spoken highly of her but I will take your report that she is a scammer into consideration, although I doubt seriously that she is.  Your advice that scammers are everywhere, including my beloved Firstdream, has already been noted on my website. Firstdream is NOT scam proof.

 Per your request and instructions Mark we concentrated our main effort for you in Dnepropetrovsk. I had told you of the response and replies Galina was getting of ladies who were interested to meet you to those ladies Galina was showing your photo and profile to. I even told you Mark that Galina had wanted to run a little ad in the local newspaper for you, as she indicated she thought you would get a great response. The first ad we ran for you a year or so ago Mark we did so at our own expense and time, it cost you nothing. This trip Mark I thought if we were going to run an ad for you, you would pay for it but I knew it was not in the budget so as you know, I told Galina we did not have the funds on this trip to run an ad in the local newspaper, although she thought, for your sake, you would have received a good number of replies.

 See Mark, if you were to ask either Rostick or Galena they would tell you that I told them that I wanted you to have a great trip and I wanted each of them to bust there butts to make sure everything went well and I wanted you to have more ladies than you could possibly meet in the time you had. So with you spending most of your time in Dnepropetrovsk, Galina was doing just that.

 As you know Mark we got you a good flat and we had sent your advance one nights rent as a deposit for your flat. Flats, as you enter the New Years celebration, become hard to find and Dnepropetrovsk, unlike Kiev and Odessa, does not have nearly the numbers of available flats to rent. But we found you a good one and reserved it for your stay in Dnepropetrovsk.

 Now Mark I guess you are trying to be kind to me when you say that Jack blew a gasket when you decided to cancel your trip to Dnepropetrovsk, it's ok, you can tell others how upset I was and what I wrote you. But since you didn't, I will explain as to why I got upset with you and your actions.

  Mark, I get an e-mail from while you are in Kiev that says, and I'm not quoting here but paraphrasing,.....  Hello Jack, Am having a GREAT time in Kiev, met three really wonderful women, won't be going to Dnepropetrovsk. Have told Ilya to call Galina and tell her that I will not becoming!  

  The night you are to be leaving for Dnepropetrovsk, we have to call Galina and tell her, and for her to tell the ladies, that Mark is not coming.

  At this time I was not thinking about you and your obvious happiness at the time, I was thinking about Galina now having to call these ladies and telling them you were not coming. First the embarrassment for Galina, then the disappointment of the ladies. Then of course there was the people we rented the flat from. A flat in the center of the town, overlooking the river. Yep, for ole buddy Mark we tried to go all out. And now we had to tell the flat owners that the flat we had reserved until the 30th, we would not be renting out. Now these flat owners, who could have written this flat out for several days probably to someone else, now at the last minute, when it was too late to rent out, now the flat would not be used.

 So Mark, of course you got my follow-up e-mail, which you did not care to discuss, but I will summarize. I told you Mark that I was upset that after all the time and trouble and effort we had gone to for you, after all the ladies we had set up for you to meet in Dnepropetrovsk, now you had changed your mind. I went further to say to you Mark that Ilya and Rostick would give you 100% of there best efforts and try to make everything about your trip in Kiev as good and professional as they could and after they see you off at the airport that would be the last time Firstdream would offer you any of there services or personal.

 And of course you wrote me back and told me that YOU were the consumer and you decide what you do, where you go, and when you go. And in today's message you say that you only had 6 days in the country and didn't want to spend nights on the train. Mark, your trip was planned so that you would be on the train during the night when you would be sleeping. You would have no wasted time. People sleep during the middle of the night, when your train was going to Dnepropetrovsk and when it was returning to Kiev. We utilized your time in such a manner that you would have the maximum amount of time available as possible.

 And you are right Mark, as a friend it was hard for me to tell you not to use FirstDream again, but as I also told you Mark, the reason I have to do this is because if you could do this once, stand up these ladies hoping to meet you, expecting to meet you, if you could do this once, you could do it again and I did not want to chance it happening again. As you can elect to choose what agencies you want to do business with, I can also choose what clients I elect to work for. You are a strong minded individual, we all know that. I have liked you for some time, and still like you, but cannot condone your actions.

Like you say Mark, if you want to be able to do as you please, go where you want, when you want, seek a LARGE reputable agency, one that may not care if you see any of there ladies or not,  because this little agency Firstdream will not, and does not, have to put up with the type of clientele that will stand up these good, sincere ladies.

 So Mark we just have a clash of two strong willed people here. You feel you have the right to do what you want and you do. I also have the right to do what I want and I will. I think if I had not told you that I greatly disapprove of your actions and this was the last time that you could use FirstDream, your report might have been different, as your first e-mail to me indicated. I knew when I told you that I felt what you did was wrong that you would be offended and expected the type of report you have given. I have had to tell a few other guys that I did not care to work with them anymore, with guys like Ryan it is so easy and with pleasure to do. For me to have to tell this to you was something I did not want to do, and was very hard for me to do.

 

[Ryan]

... in response to As Paul Harvey would say, and NOW, the r..., posted by Jack on Jan 11, 2002

Sorry jack but you never told me and I mean NEVER told me that you would not work with me.  It was me that made that choice.. Your just the biggest scammer...  I can't believe the gull..........

[Jack]

... in response to Re: As Paul Harvey would say, and NOW, t..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Sorry Ryan, when I called you a punk @ss stupid moron I thought that was telling you I did not care to work with you anymore.

Ryan, since you are an expert on getting scammed, why don't you write a book or something?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to As Paul Harvey would say, and NOW, the r..., posted by Jack on Jan 11, 2002

If I work with you I'll at least show up.  From Mark's trip report it sounded like he was doing it wrong anyway.  I think it's too hard to go over there and get anything going without at least having written the ladies first.  I could only tell from what your report that he had written 1 lady.  Jack, you did a great job of making your points while not losing your temper.  

Hey Jack,  

Every time somebody talks about you handling their trip they always mention Ukraine.  Do you handle Russian trips also?

[Rags]

... in response to As Paul Harvey would say, and NOW, the r..., posted by Jack on Jan 11, 2002

You are way too kind. Flame this JERK like he deserves.

Thanks for filling in some of the omissions of Mark's trip report and clarifying how he screwed over so many people for his own self serving reasons.

[BarryM]

... in response to C'mon Jack..., posted by Rags on Jan 11, 2002

People are stubborn and make mistakes as in the case with Mark H. In Mark H's post, he admits that Jack delivered the services contracted for despite the short notice. There is no need for flames as the posts are honest and amicable. Sure Mark's ego is bruised a bit, but it's his own fault for rushing this trip against the sage advice from Jack.

Something to learn. Don't be hard-headed, listen to expert advice, and you will have a good trip.

-blm

[Jeff]

... in response to Overdue trip report........., posted by Mark H on Jan 11, 2002

I remember you saying about what kind of girl you need, you were very specific about what you want her to look like.  I remember you already ruled out anybody who isn't a blonde.  I know you think that you are able to find this specific girl, but maybe you should broaden your outlook on the whole thing and try to get to know some girls that aren't part of your narrow search.  Maybe you will finally see that looks don't always matter.  I'm not sure why you are so narrow with your search, maybe you are trying to boost your self esteem by marrying a piece of arm candy.  Whatever your reason is, you could do a lot better by making a list of personality attributes and then search for someone who meets these traits.  I knew from the beginning it was a bad idea for Jack to help you out, because you will never be satisfied with anything that isn't a living Barbie.  Jack supposedly helped you out for free if I remember correctly.  Maybe it was a promotional thing for his business, but still you could have made more of the trip if you weren't so narrow minded.  Sorry if I seem a little rude, but it really doesn't surprise me that you are running into so many scammers.  You expect these "perfect" looking women to be sincere, but they aren't going to settle down with the first yeahoo who comes from America.  Of course they are going to see what you are made of, see what you have to offer.  They don't need to settle for you because there are many men like yourself with a narrow attitude who go to Russia to find their Barbie.  I don't really think you were scammed, it seems to me like you were just a little out of your league.  Of course I could be wrong, maybe you have already realized all of this, but from your trip report it doesn't seem like it.