JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America

[Cold Warrior]

Good post by JohnK on Russian Perceptions reprinted from below. Posted by John K (registered user) on 01/08 In Reply to: I hate America posted by Cold Warrior on 01/05:Here are a few items that I've noticed from talking to various Russian/Slavic people:1) American "distance": Americans distance themselves from each other. In Russia, everyone knows their neighbors and often neighbors rely on each other to resolve problems. In America, we often hardly know the person in the apartment next to us. Distance also occurs between two people interacting in public. Small talk is common, but little beyond pleasantries is exchanged. Consequently, Americans are seen as having a "mask" on, hiding the real person behind it.2) Culture. Sorry guys, but the average Russian turns on the TV here and what do you get? Jerry Springer, Oprah, Tic-Tac-Dough, brainless sitcoms, 400 different "reality" shows, and the Public Access channel. Hmmm, I really don't think that is going to impress them. Yes, there are cultural events you can go to if you want, but the general public usually doesn't have an interest in it. The latest episode of Ren and Stimpy or Southpark is more appealing.3) Provincialism: Russians learn about all cultures while going to school. They know their own history, European history, and American history. Students usually study one or more additional languages during school. They watch television programs and movies from different countries all the time. Then they come to America and find that all we know or care about is America. How do you think that affects our worldly image?4) Exercise/Fitness: The average Russian walks countless miles/kilometers a day, doing their normal course of business. We get in the car to run to the grociery store a block and a half away. Sidewalks exist everywhere in Ukraine, but most towns/small cities have little for walking, unless you are downtown. What's the first thing that happens to a Russian when they come to America? They gain a lot of weight. But I've noticed that Russians are quick to start losing it, once it becomes noticeable.5) Self Image: Russians pride themselves on looking good. They dress well, if they can. Women wear makeup. They go to the gym and work out. They come here and see fat slobs running around in blue jeans, tshirts, and a baseball cap worn backwards. Or some punk/goth idiot with hair in three different colors, ears, nose, eyebrows, lips, and tongue pierced. Gee, I wonder what that makes them think?6) Youth and manners: Russians work hard to raise their children to be polite and respectful. Then they visit here and see our children running amok, without any parental supervision. Life among the heathens certainly doesn't seem to appealing to them for some reason...7) "In your face" cultural influence: Walk down a busy street and you have some kid drive by with the windows down, stereo blaring some rap tune while the subwoofer rattles the city block. Turn on the tube and you see Jerry Springer talking to the dregs of society, who use gutter slang to talk about their "exploits" as if it were something to be proud about. Well, me and my "homies" ain't makin' sugah happenin' for the roosky types. Ya hear what I'm sayin?Need I go on? What we seek in Russian women is a salvation from the things they are going to hate once they get here. We bring them to cultural hell to save us. Do you think they are just going to thank us for it? And we wonder why they don't like America...Just something to think about.

[chuck12]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

Need I go on? What we seek in Russian women is a salvation from the things they are going to hate once they get here. We bring them to cultural hell to save us. Do you think they are just going to thank us for it? And we wonder why they don't like America...

Are you serious?? You gotta be kidding me? The U.S. might not be known for the cultural hub of the western world, but there are a few things we do have in our favor.

How about the ability to finance a home, a car, versus having to pay everything in cash??

How about being able to walk into a grocery store where there are actually enough groceries to buy and not stand in a single line.

How about employment in U.S. versus Russia, employee benefits, medical, 401K, etc, unemployment benefits.

How about living in a democratic society where burning the flag is legal (freedom of speech), try burning the FSU flag and see what happens.

Don't drink the water in Russia, what does that tell you? Why do so many people have to carry disinfectant with them?
How about having hot water anytime during the day and not just for 15 minutes in the morning and in the evening.

RM are fit?? Really? The average life span of a Russian male is mid 50's! I'll admit many AM are overweight, but the life span of an AM is still in the late 70's. Compare the ratio of alcholics in Russia per capita to U.S., maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Russia had legal age requirements for drinking alcohol, but apparently pre teens can drink at home and in public without any reprimand.

I could go on and on and on and on, but whats the point? So there isn't a opera house in every neighborhood, but don't tell me RW's hate it over here and its a cultural hell, most would be screaming and kicking if they had to go back.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

Mark another one down for agreement.

[thesearch]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

Yes,

I laugh when my fellow Americans think we have such a wonderful country. Do not get me wrong, I love it here and do not have any plans to move. I just do not believe in blind pride.  

What they are talking about evidently when boasting is our economy and the relative freedom we enjoy compared to some other countries.

Beyond that well, we demonstrate a lot of de baser attitudes and actions.

I remember while I was standing in line here in the good Ole USA waiting to check in for my fight to Russia. There was a man in his late thirties standing behind me. He acted in a way that was different from what I normally saw in people in a sophisticated way. We talked for some time, he had no accent, with conversation drifting into history of Greece relative to Russia.

I finally said to him - You were not born in the USA were you? His answer was that he moved from Europe to the USA when he was 19 years old. Why did I say this - because this guy simply exuded a sophistication that was not the norm. So, I assumed he might not have been born here - and I was correct. Now I am not saying that everyone else is sophisticated and we are not. There are some real low life's from Europe. It just seems that pride in Americans is more about what you have and being cool. It is not about being educated and sophisticated. Being sophisticated is not cool. It is more looked at as being a momma's boy so to speak.  

[RW]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

I think you are making another stereotype of Russians hating America All reasons you listed are very narrow and related to people "stuck" in their past who don't want to see all the great opportunities and good sides of America.

American "distance" - I love it. People mind their own business. They don't care what kind of car you drive, if you are wearing designer clothes or went for vacation to Idaho or Carribean. BUT... they will help you if you have problems in the family, they will evaluate you fairly based on your performance, they will bring their favourite dish to your party, etc, etc. Your mother in law will not give you lectures on how to take care of her son and why you did not cook dinner last night, "iron his socks" and on and on and on.

Culture... You either have it or not No matter where you live. I have been to more cultural and uncultural events here in USA than ever in Russia, because I don't have to worry about many other things. I visited many different places, met many more diversified people...

Exercise... For fun or out of necessity? That's the big difference and you are comparing two different things.

Self Image... What's a point of spending all yourmoney on a new mink coat if you can do any other fun things? I don't see it  as such a great thing in Russia...

Youth and politeness... Depends on parents, NOT country. You can see different examples here and there.

"In your face"... Walk down the street in Russia and you don't see single face with a smile or a friendly expression. ))

Anyways, what's a point of my message??? I guess in any relationship it always helps if the person can see positive side, rather than negative and criticize it to death. Adjustment is not only about time difference, living conditions and language. It's about flexibility and ability to make lemonade out of lemon And it goes for both sides.

So I would not be so critical about America. It has it good and bad sides. As any country, as any person.

Also, many people criticize America whereas in reality it may be not about America, it might be not about fat people, but somehting else... may be something else they don't want to admit to themselves... Don't you think???

Sincerely,

Russian Wife

[John K]

... in response to or Americans perception of Russians???, posted by RW on Jan 8, 2002

I am not saying that any of these perceptions hold any validity.  What I was trying to do in the post was answer why so many Russians/Slavs dislike life in America once they get here.  My points were drawn from conversations with several Russian and Ukrainian people who have moved here.  These were recurring themes that almost always came up.

I agree with you that such perceptions always do reflect something of the thinker.  Yet I was not attempting to make any judgements regarding their opinions.  My point was simply to answer a question posed as to why Russian people dislike living here.

As always, this is not 100 percent accurate.  This post was made as a grouping of common reponses/complaints I have often heard.  I'm certain that many Russian people like it here.  I think there is a point of acceptance that has to be reached before it happens though.

[tim360z]

... in response to Yes and No..., posted by John K on Jan 9, 2002

I meet mainly Russians who come from Moscow and St Petersburg and I do meet them in a resort scenario.  The longest any has been here is 7 years and the ones I have met,  from familys and husbands and wives and sons and daughters is...that they like it here..very much.  Now,  I am sure they have found some American things humorous at best...but they seem to be enjoying the good life they have found here.  And they are quite vocal about that.  They say the only reason they wish to go back to Moscow or St Petersburg is to visit relatives and friends.  If they were not happy people they would not be showing.  When I ask them over a cocktail,  "if you would like to move back???"  They look at me like I must be a crazyman and they will laugh and laugh and order another cocktail from the waitress.  Now,  I must admit that economically they are all doing rather well...ssssoooo...thats my little experience with Russians who have been here a few years and doing economically well.  Maybe for new brides its a different deal or mindset,  I don't know.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to or Americans perception of Russians???, posted by RW on Jan 8, 2002


Nice to know someone likes it here :-)

Gives me hope...

If I were embarrassed by America so much, and loved a Russian Woman so much, I'd NEVER bring her here...

[Stevo]

... in response to or Americans perception of Russians???, posted by RW on Jan 8, 2002

ggg

[Zink]

... in response to or Americans perception of Russians???, posted by RW on Jan 8, 2002

Sounds like you married into a great family and community. I've seen a few interfering mother-in-laws and nosey neighbours. I actually thought that people had a more private life in Russia than they do around here. But then I was only there a short time and my girlfriend was trying to hide the fact that I wasn't Russian.  People here have different ways of showing they have money. It is less about the clothes you wear than the vehicle you drive. Many people here will spend all their money on attempts to outdo the neighbours. Foolish yes, but I think it's fairly common behavior all over the world.

As for your last statement. We all need to seek self improvement. But part of that is in finding what our problems are and then dealing with them. This goes for countries as well. If you believe that everything is perfect and deny that there could ever be anything wrong, you will run into big problems later on. If we know what are typical things that a RW would have problems with when they arrive here it allows us time to prepare.

For myself I think it is good if people can look at what is around them both good and bad. That way you can be proud about what is good in your life and work on the things that aren't good. It's all part of that adaptability that you stress is so important. One shouldn't dwell on the negatives but they should be aware of them.

[Del]

... in response to or Americans perception of Russians???, posted by RW on Jan 8, 2002

Since I was 18 I've lived (and worked) in 26 regions, in 9 countries on 4 continents.
Almost everyone is 'more comfortable' with the "known" rather than with the "unknown"! And, I'm afraid most would rather see their glass as being 'half empty', rather than 'half full'.
In most instances "perception" is everything, and almost all base their 'perceptions' on that which is 'known' and 'comfortable'.
I see the "gem" of your post in the last paragraph.

[BarryM]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

Some of the worse American "culture" is rubbing off on young Russians, especially Rap music. Several of the participants in the TV program, Za Steklom, were neo-punk with the tattoos and piercings. Watching some kids wearing "gangsta" style clothing and behaving in a "black gangsta" sort of way makes me retch. It seems that America has exported teenage stupidity to Russia. It doesn't look good.

-blm

[Ramblin]

... in response to Have you seen NTV lately?, posted by BarryM on Jan 8, 2002

Haven't seen NTV but I did see some punks break dancing in the center of Kiev last summer.  And one punk was spinning on his back with his legs in the air while smoking a cigarette the whole time.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Have you seen NTV lately?, posted by Ramblin on Jan 9, 2002


It migrates...

Besides, I thought all of that started in London, anyway...

[micha1]

... in response to JohnK on Russian Perceptions of America, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 8, 2002

What is written in paragraph 3,  "all we care and know about is America",  is really the truth.
Not for  hundred percent of the people, but surely for the mass.
It is very easy to understand, the people running the show - are  filling their pockets - and like it like this.
Like how many country have not gone metric outside the USA and why have they not gone metric.  For I have been
thinking about this for a long time and can't even begin to formulate an answer.

Why did they send all the bombers and soldiers in Afganistan, while they could have sent the guy in Towering
Inferno,  the other Kung Fu artist and the great Arnold, it would have been over a long time ago,  the mollah and
Ousama would have been something of the past long ago, right.
Perhaps this image is out of place, of bad taste, but from where I stand, it came up to mind.