America

[Zink]

... in response to Don't shoot the messenger..., posted by John K on Jan 9, 2002

My favorite myth is the one about RWs being docile housewives. Anybody who falls for that one is in for a big surprise. Granted I only know half a dozen RWs well, but they are tough, independant and opinionated. Steel and silk. That's what I say about RWs.

As for accepting criticism. In my experience any man who wants to be near a woman better get used to it. Sometimes we might even deserve that criticism.

Keep posting John. I for one think you're giving good advice based on real experience.

[micha1]

... in response to In Defense of America, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 9, 2002

Mark,  was looking for a way to say something and could not.
May be this will fit.
We all have convictions without having the certitudes when it does come to human being, their opinions, ideas,
needs, experiences, dreams...........etc....etc.

[KenC]

... in response to In Defense of America, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 9, 2002

Mark,
I am not taking any side on the virtues of America.  My point is that one must have a good deal of tolerance on the subject when you enter into a relationship with a RW.  My wife is not a "shrinking violet" and will voice her opinion loud and clear (right or wrong). It is no wonder we ended up together! LOL.  There was a period of time where we had to agree to disagree and we avoided the subject altogether.  In time, she understood America much better and the conflicts went by the wayside.
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: In Defense of America, posted by KenC on Jan 9, 2002


I do understand the thinking that part of the challenge of the AM/RW relationship is a culture clash. Especially two cultures that were so diameterically opposed for so long.

If the thinking is: "Be ready and be patient..." Then I can certainly agree.

But there are certain members on here -- who are not, it should be pointed out, RWs -- who seem to take every opportunity to talk about why America is inferior to Europe etc...

It is this that I was responding to.

Those who read my trip report from last year know that Maria and I had many discussions about her perceptions of America.. .and how she felt we were all money-grubbing SOBs... I do know that there is a challenge there that is real.

Patience is called for certainly.

But, I still do think that this is a great country... and part of the reason that an R/W wants to come here with me is that she thinks so too -- though her Russian pride will not admit her to say it.

BTW, this is EXACTLY what Maria said to me after I had broken up with her... It wasn't until the courtship was over that she could confess that she wanted to leave Russia.

There's probably a moral there somewhere, but I'm too tired to find it right now...

Peace ...

[KenC]

... in response to I'm not saying Love it or Leave it, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 9, 2002

Mark,
My take is that RW have a difficult time facing the fact that there ARE better places to live than their Motherland.  Years of "programing" have drilled Russian pride into their souls, but their minds say otherwise.  Now if you add to that mix the fact that they are moving to America, the very same country they have been fed propaganda to dispise; you have internal conflicts all over the place.  It takes time for the RW to work out her conflicts in this area.

I laugh at the misconception of some posters here and Americans in general, that all RW are ready to jump ship and leave their homeland for ANY opportunity that comes along.  It simply is not true in many cases.  The pattern that I see is that the better life a RW has had in Russia, the less likely they are to jump blindly for a visa out.  Not every RW is so desperate as to accept the first visa opportuntiy made available to them.  The "good ones" can be dam choosey.  LOL.
KenC
p.s. (I thik Patrick's comment about "love it or leave it" was not directed at you, but at Kevin, your fellow Texan)

[MarkInTx]

... in response to RW's internal conflict, posted by KenC on Jan 10, 2002

Frankly, some of the points Maria made with me are valid.

And I dearly wish that my family were not scattered hither and yon.

But I wouldn't trade the freedom I have fot life in a three bedroom apartment, shared with a couple generations, either.

Gee... there must be a way of combining the best of all cutlures... you would think, huh?

And, I agree... As I've said before, chances are much greater that an RW will leave her AM and return back home than grab a greencard and stay...

Anyone who thinks otherwise is waaaay too worried about scammers... IMHO

[KenC]

... in response to I wish I could combine the good of both, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 10, 2002

n/t

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: In Defense of America, posted by KenC on Jan 9, 2002

Those of you with strong nationalistic tendencies may be in for a tougher time marrying a woman from another country.  "America, Love it or leave it" types are going to have a lot more adjusment problems than those who believe there really may be some aspects to another culture that are better than the USA.

[BarryM]

... in response to You guys should listen to what Ken's say..., posted by Patrick on Jan 9, 2002

American society is very complicated. It takes time for immigrants to adjust to the rigors of this society. That's why you hear some of the criticism by your RW. Time mellows their opinions. Some of the Russians I know would rather live in Russia and are very sad to be here... but there isn't an economic future for them there at the moment. They plan to return if opportunities get better over there.

-blm

[micha1]

... in response to In Defense of America, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 9, 2002

You said it,  Mark,  take the good with bad, like in a relationship.
You are right, just as Reagan is.
I do think that in trying to explain the failure of some marriage or relationship, some post get de-rail.
The truth of the failure on a relation-marriage is 85% in the person (persons) handling it at the start, in the
middle and in the end.    The 15%, we could lay of the culture and whatever else.
Love and marriage is harder to do, in the long run, than catching lighting in a bottle.
It is a little bit like trying to understand women, right guys.
As for myself, I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.  I have to hear at all for music,  but love good music.
I can't paint a barn, but love painting - not saying that I understand it.
If bullsh't was music,  I probably would be a brassband and I am on of the most honest person in my game,
so I am told.    
All that I do know is, that it is easy to see the straw in the other person's eyes, while it is hard to se the beam
obscuring my sight.
Thanks.

[Skjef]

... in response to America, posted by Reagan on Jan 9, 2002

Dude, I just want a mail order bride. For some reason this has always attracted me, probaly because of my inability to meet/date women. I figure that an ugly f###er like me can import a bride that is at least two steps higher on the attractiveness scale than myself, because of my chartming personality, the fact that I am from the USA!, and that I make pretty good money. Why is this a problem for you? I am not going to beat my wife, like at least 50% of these other f###s. The only thing that I can see going wrong is that she will divorce my ass once she can become a citizen by having been here long enough. I only hope that if this happens to me that I do not have children.
 My wife will have an acent, and make weird food for christmas dinner, but she will be hotter than what I could attain here!

[Zink]

... in response to America, posted by Reagan on Jan 9, 2002

Mr. Jones, I know that you think I'm one of the guys slamming the US. Read my post to RW and maybe you can understand part of my reason for writing what I did. You seem to have the same attitude that you don't like in the negative posters. The only difference is that you are saying everything is wonderful, not everything is terrible. The truth lies somewhere in between.

I've taken philosophy at the university level. Your arguments are no more valid or invalid than theirs. The US is a big country and many types of people live there. It is very possible to have widely different experiences while living in the same country. I know my life is quite different from many people who live in the same town as I do. LP was a cop and I'm sure what he saw then was not the best and brightest that the US has to offer.

RW had it right when she said that people need to get past the negatives if they want to make things work. But as I said I think that a person needs to admit that nothing is perfect. If we don't always strive to do the best we can we start to backslide. Constructive criticism is not a bad thing.

And who told you that our best and brightest went south. We gave you Jim Carey and Bill Shatner.