the debate, is it Bad or Good information!

[Jack]

So there apears to be a heated conversation going on now.

Anyone who knows Dan knows he has a soft heart and will offer his help and advice to anyone but ESPECIALLY the new guys. This is not the first time Dan has questioned some advice that he has thought was harmful. One of his (and mine) biggest problems with Max, aka jj, was the tremendous amount of bad advice he was passing out on the Brama board.

I have not read all the threads, don't have time now, but read a few of the threads posted today about these statements made about cost in finding a Russian dreambride. I don't know that Mark wrote the statement that one could easily find a bride in six month and spend $2000, if he wrote that statement than I can see where Dan is coming from.

As I have stated before, some guys can see one Russian woman, meet one Russian woman, marry that one Russian woman and have a happy life. Some guys will also win the 50 million dollar lottery. Not many mind you, but it is possiable.

Mark has a lot of first has far as I am concerned. Mark is the only man I know who made his fiancee pay her own way to the states and pay for her own medical exam. I could never, would never, think of doing such a thing. That doesn't make Mark bad, only different. Mark is the ONLY man I know who could go to the FSU (that includes Latvia) meet one woman, bring her to the states, get married and spend a total of $2000. It just ain't going to happen to more than one guy out of a thousand. Just ain't going to happen more often than that, end of debate. So with that being said, and if Mark made the statement that it was easy for other's to do the same, than in my opinion it is a very mis-leading, potentially harmful, statement and I hope newby's do not consider it is possiable.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

I am $20,000.0 + and counting.  Some people are more like me, like to go over, have a vacation, but am picky ie. better safe than sorry.

[mdante99]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

Jack; I defer to your judgment; you have a lot of experience in this field; much more than I will ever have.

I described my experiences; and they were accurate. Personally I don't see anything wrong with a girl who does well to pay for her own expenses in coming to USA.

Which one would you rather have for a wife? A destitute or one who does well in her native land? And is there somethng wrong with someone who chooses a well off wife?
The logic defies me.

Yes the process has been quick, inexpensive and painless for me. I never thought of myself of having some extra ordinary luck or talents. I thought that what I did could be duplicated easily by others; if you don't think so; then I stand corrected.
Jack, I am at a loss though; why is it so difficult for someone to duplicate what I did?

RW has pointed out below; it is sad but most people buy addresses; it is unlikely that they will ever find such a girl from an address from an agency. I understand that you have a business to run, and you provide a valuable service to many people; but buying addresses is not the only way to do it.

I pursued for a wife in EE more or less the same way as I pursued for here in USA; I would not pay for an address here why should I pay for in EE? If an AW came to see me from New York, I would expect her to pay her way; why should it be any different for a Baltic girl. BTW, the Baltic states have a fairly good standard of living.

Mark

[Jack]

... in response to Re: the debate, is it Bad or Good inform..., posted by mdante99 on Dec 20, 2001

Mark,

 No one doubts what you did. I think you have been very upfront with the way you did thing, even to the point of being brutally honest and you have caught some heat over things you said about the way you did some things.

 Nothing wrong with a man only wanting a well off wife. Every man has the option of choosing the type wife he wants, that is one of the greatest benefits of this whole process. I thought I wanted a tall slender model type woman, I had dreamed of this type of lady. After meeting 17 ladies from 5ft9 to 6ft1 over a 21 day period I realized I did not want a lady this tall, but one who was 5ft6 to 5ft9. Where else could we try this with such ease so quickly? If were not sure, we can d@mn sure find out!

 You are a very proud man of landing such a pretty wife Mark. I can think off-hand of about 25 other guys on this  board, including myself, and each of us are also very proud and think that we were able to land a pretty wife also. You didn't corner the market on pretty wifes! Almost each of us feel this way Mark, you just show your pride and happiness a little more than others.

 There are a thousand different individuals who are, and have, contributed to this board and each and everyone of us has done, and will do things differently. I swear, I know some of the guys are going about certain things wrong, but then I would have said that you were also going about the process wrong and look how you did! What does that prove? That each individual will do as he feels is best for him and he can read and learn from those who went before him and he can choose what ways he wants to do things.

 I think what got you in a little trouble over the past few days was by maybe strongly saying that most guys could find there bride in 6 months time and spend $2000. You said this because you did it but the truth is most guys can't do this and very few would be able to do so and be as successful as you.

 I read above that you said that maybe that was a mistake to indicate that it was so easy to do and that is big of you to admit such and to say such.

 Think about the guys, like William, who wrote one lady, met one lady and married the same one lady. What if each of these guys were to say, "You should all write one lady and marry this one lady, all of you can do it because I did and I was successful!"  Well if William or any other person would make such a statement I assure you that person would be  ducking bullets just as you have with your previous statement.  See where I am coming from?

  Now, where is Ryan?  Looks like I gotta have a looooong conversation with that young rascal!

[mdante99]

... in response to the debate, it is Good information!, posted by Jack on Dec 20, 2001

Jack you are a pro about this matter.
You are right there are dozens of guys here who have very pretty wives.
Believe me Jack, I had no idea that this process could be so expensive, until the bullets stareted flying. I guess I should count my blessings.

Thanks again.

Mark

[Mike]

... in response to Re: the debate, is it Bad or Good inform..., posted by mdante99 on Dec 20, 2001

I have to say after going to Moscow without a service, I too thought it was easy and not so expensive. I got lucky on my first trip. In fact I met a few other women that had the possibilities of becoming something. Inna stole my heart by not being so interested in me like the others seemed to be. ( yes I like a challenge )She was interested but not showing it like the others did. Also I might add that I went there for 3 weeks, and spent the first week getting a feel for things. My trip there was under $3000 and I did everything I wanted. Every body has to do things their own way, and in a way that makes them feel comfortable.

[BrianN]

... in response to Re: the debate, is it Bad or Good inform..., posted by mdante99 on Dec 20, 2001

and as well, your experience is unique.
Women, world over, are as unique as men.  Some men got it, some don't.  Some women do too.  Money and character that is.

So, fish with a bigger bait, and you'll catch a bigger fish, it doesn't mean that the rest.. are like yours you know.

If you're bothered by being portrayed as such a cheap guy (that no way this could've happened thing), then defend yourself accordingly, instead of insinuating that every dude out here can find a chick just as cheap as you can, using the same standards.

You have your ways, and everybody else... has theirs, in search for love and companionship.

Your experience was extremely unique.  Why?  In my opinion, maybe it was because you had logic in front of emotion and would only settle for the type that could meet your criteria, therefore, you simply stuck to your guns, and the right one came along.  It happens.

No need to question Jack's website or business in the venture.  To make an attempt to discredit it, or the motives of the men that are engaged in the process, is basically nothing more than you elevating yourself above everyone else here...  as if, you've done it right, and nobody else has, and the way that they're going, is wrong.

Big deal.  It's a business, and you make it sound like it's just as easy to find a rw, as it is to find an aw.  It isn't.  Your experience is unique, (and I won't throw in the caveat "if it's true"), and since you've been around here so long, you should know it.

I consider you quite a lucky and steadfast dude in these circles, however, just because you did it, your way, doesn't mean, that everybody else can, the way you did.

Everybody's different... and no offense... imo, you're quite a lucky guy to be here at this point in time, and I can imagine, that many would be quite jealous of your position in life, considering all that you've gone through, with such small expense, financially, and emotionally, to get you to where you are now.

Whatever... good luck.

[BrianN]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

If people sit around and constantly compare monetary costs associated with this, then they should consider a career change, instead of a "wife" change.

My last wife cost me over $150,000, in money down the toilet.

All in one swipe?  No.  But over a 10 year period, that's what I figured she blew on gambling, tallying swag's on a monthly basis.  And she was an American citizen.

If anyone in this thing, considers money a major obstacle, because of the horrendous $8,000-30,000 figures that I've seen posted on various websites and message boards, needs to do some re-thinking or evaluation of exactly where this figure comes from.

You don't withdraw 20 grand from the bank and go to russia to get a wife, but on and on, this is the impression that I've seen that ends up being  implied; (perhaps by accident, perhaps by not.. scare factor maybe?).  Oh the thought!  I might spend 20,000 on a woman!  

It has nothing to do with total costs, but rather, the means available to the person involved.  Ok, so you can afford to spend 100 bucks a month in translation expenses, email, gifts or whatever.  Times 12.  Ok.  One year of regular email and all, 1200 bucks.  Then save for a trip (half-way decent one) to the fsu... plan on 3 grand for a couple of weeks.  If you're lucky... or just down right cheap and sleep on the frozen ground, 1800 or less.  

Then again, if you're a man of means, go all out and spend 250 bucks a night on lodging alone, fly first class, 24/7 interpereter, driver... etc.

The tally adds up quick.

Either way, in the end, if a man is more concerned about the expense, rather than the relationship, then... in my opinion, needs to forget it, and figure out how much his child support, alimony, lawyers fees from last divorce.. etc are costing him, and do a real analysis of what the cost of achieving happiness is.

After all, for 20 grand amortized, I could make payments on a chevy malibu that needs to be traded in in 5 years, or make payments towards a great relationship, that I hope I'd never have to part with.

I prefer the cost/benefit analysis of the relationship over the car anytime.  Anyone that considers otherwise in this venture, is simply a bit vacant, imo.  

Parting thought: If a car's been wrecked, there are no if's ands or buts about it.  But in a relationship, the dents and dings from accidents can get fixed over time, given the right set of circumstances.

Warning: Professional drivers on controlled test track.  Do not attempt this at home.  Your mileage may vary.  lol.

[KenC]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

Jack,
I know that Mark's financial information was misleading at best, but read the crap that Ryan is preaching!
KenC

[snowwego]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

As far as this debate is going. I think that people are to overwhelmed with money and not the real issue and that is finding a girl that is not going to dump him after 2 yrs. For us guys, we have to take the chance that she is true to her word and maybe some guys are just lookiing for a wife slave and others are looking for a soul mate. the women from russia and other ee countries also have to take a chance because they could get here and the men could be down right mean brutal and then turn around and send them back. I am not saying that everyone is bad but, that are good people and bad people in every part of the world and the trick is to use every sense we have to decide if that person is good or not. I love my ukraining girl for the value she has in my family and to the see the  value (first hand)she has with her own family. not every marriage is going to be a success and not every marriage is going to fail. To the men of america we have to remember that we are the hosts to these new visitors and we have to bend over backwards to make our new wives comfortable. We also have to resect what they stand for. Snowwego

[WilliamF]

... in response to the debate, is it Bad or Good informatio..., posted by Jack on Dec 19, 2001

My thoughts, in no particular order: I find the whole discussion about how much it "costs" to to "acquire" a "Russian bride" to be repugnant. As for "quality of information" to "newbies" on this board - if some "new guy" cannot discern that Mark (or anyone else) is speaking only from his/her personal experience - then, I'm sorry, no amount of "information" will be of any use to that person, because that person could fairly be catagorized as "cluesless." Lastly, if you read Dan's responses to Mark's post(s) I think it is also fair to say that Mark's attack and rudeness was completely unprovoked and uncalled for.

Ahhh, that feels better..

Also, I'd be curious to know your thoughts re Ryan's conclusions about agencies (under the "cultural differences" post below)

William (the other guy who happens to be married to the only Russian women he ever met)

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: the debate, is it Bad or Good inform..., posted by WilliamF on Dec 19, 2001

That Dan's clear crisp logic and reason prevailed.  Surely,  no one with a brain can be thinkin' this could be a 2K budget plan as Mark has claimed.  His experience would not be the norm...I find it bordering on the extraterrestial.  But,  I should not doubt it too much since his wife paid all her expenses.  And another good point is that (seems obvious) it might not be a very bright idea to marry a girl who detests America because with that mindset within 6 months of living in the USA....her loathing will turn to hate.  And shes all yours night after night.  All in all,  a nice little PL debate and yes,  I agree Mark did get rather rude and I don't think Dan really deserved that.  

Yes,  William,  it is repugnant,  I must concur.  All these guys wonderin,  "How much is that doggie in the window,  the one with the...".  Probably gonna cost alot of money,  before the marriage and then after.  But real love well...its priceless.

[LP]

... in response to Debate Over!  Survey says...., posted by tim360z on Dec 20, 2001

..Mark or Dan? You makin the same mistake as William F?

[tim360z]

... in response to Huh?...., posted by LP on Dec 20, 2001

I'm gettin' tired and I just peeked in on the debate.  Time for my milk and cookies.  I'll have to ring for my nurse.  I'm gettin'  lost here in all these threads...just who is attackin' who here.  No Taliban here,  eh! Anyway,  from what I've read....I gotta give the debate to Dan.  Oh!  and Mark its Christmas an all.  This girl saved you a he!!uva lot of money...blow a couple grand on her.

[WilliamF]

... in response to Re: the debate, is it Bad or Good inform..., posted by WilliamF on Dec 19, 2001

Its getting late. Should have read "Dan's attack" - not "Mark's attack"...sorry Mark!