For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long)

[Oatmeal]

I just wanted to bring this topic to the top of the list because I wanted to talk just a little more on this subject about what the man and what the lady sacrifices in looking for a partner from a foreign country.

First, I would like to explain what happened with this girl that I was writing to for 4 months but did not work out.  The problem was several things.  One of the biggest things was that she had been previously involved with a bad UM.  So she was very hopeful about us but yet when I met her she was clearly very mistrustful of me.  She practically came out and called me a liar several times.  How can I start any relationship where there is so much mistrust.  I had not done anything for her to mistrust me for.  I felt terrible for her that she had such bad experiences that she cannot really trust a man.  That really did not show through in her letters to me but was very clear when we met.  

The other thing was that there was just some problem with chemistry between us.  I just did not have the attraction I was hoping for when we met eventhough I had established some emotional feeling through our e-mails.  

I totally paid for our correspondance so I tried to make sure that she did not have to pay a dime for our letter writing.  I really felt terrible when I left her because she had so much hope in our future but I just could not get past her personal problems and our chemistry.  To make it worse she even bought me a small present when we first met so I felt so terrible beyond words when I had to leave her.  She begged me not to go but I really believe it was the best decision.

Now in many cases the woman may only have the desire or financial resources to correspond with one man and that is unfortunate but at the same time the man must make the most of his opportunities to try to insure his success.  I DO NOT ADVOCATE FOR MEN TO GO OVER AND SLEEP AROUND (alleycatting) and betray his true intentions. Personally I would have preferred to only correspond and go to meet only one lady but in my case what would have become of me if I had done that and met with such disaster right from the start of my trip.  Could I rely only on marriage agencies after that.  I would not have considered myself to have fully optimalize my resources at that point.  

Again I do agree that in this pursuit the man must put some of his real heart and soul into his correspondance with a lady but he should also be very aware that it is a good possibility that things could go wrong in only the first day or so of meeting.

Maybe there is no real practical way to do it.  Some may choose to only go to meet only one girl and others may go to see many.  It is kind of a catch 22 where if you go to see only one girl you should be fully aware that you risk your whole trip on this one girl and if it doesn't work out then you may have forfeited a whole year of your life until you can return to do it again.  

On the other hand, if you go to see many girls, you may be spreading yourself too thin to really invest your real heart and soul into a relationship and again you risk going home with nothing to show for it.

My solution was to try to find a happy medium where I corresponded with a few ladies (8-10 ladies) and also used the marriage agencies as a back up to that.  I also kept the addresses of ladies that I could not continue correspondance with just in case I got stuck.  

Even then it was difficult for me to get too close in correspondance because I cannot tear my heart in so many different directions but I feel that I did my best and that I was following a plan that would insure me the best chance of success.

As a footnote I should add that I stayed in Ukraine as long as I possibly could (6 weeks) on my last visit and unfortunately lost my job over it.  My company told me before I left that it would be perfectly fine for me to be gone this extra time but when I returned they fired me over it and I cannot do anything about it because my state is a "Right to Work" state and they can fire you for practically any reason.  I would not have stayed so long but I fortunately met one girl (that I am now engaged to) and I felt I needed to spend more time with her.  If given the choice I would have done it again exactly the same way.

Sorry this has been such a long post. :-))))

[yoe]

... in response to For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long), posted by Oatmeal on Oct 29, 2001

if you are going to write many ladies-do not get angry if the woman you find also write many men or has other suitors in the wake. I did not write other women because I not looking for a wife. I liked what my now wife said and I only wnated to meet her. -worst case scenerio-other than her being a noshow-was that I meet some cool people. I cannot tell you what is right and anyone who tries is a fool. Listen to experinces and life stories-advice is like a fart in the wind.(I say this as I am giving advice). Any way, I do not care what anyone says, these RW who have been on this board have used gread diplomacy and repect to the other guest here. They have not stooped to name calling or exaggerated nonsencial tatics of debate-they have decent contibutors and I admire that. It is not always as interesting as the whacko's who come on spill out the spew fo what to do's and how it is and I am this and I am that and I can kill teh whole world with my mind attitude. So take what you want and leave the rest behind. you get what you give.
Joe

[ron]

... in response to I have said it before and I will say it ..., posted by yoe on Oct 30, 2001

joe, did you only meet one russian woman and this was the russian woman you married?

[yoe]

... in response to Re: I have said it before and I will say..., posted by ron on Oct 30, 2001

nt

[Stan B]

... in response to For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long), posted by Oatmeal on Oct 29, 2001

Hey Oatmeal it sounds like you did the right thing and I really hope that it all works out great for you and your future Mrs Oat.
I went over to meet just 1 woman after 3 months of writing and w/o any knowledge from this or any other board. But I did use my common sense and I did have a small back-up plan. Thus I went and upon meeting we discovered we had absolutely zero chemistry. We both knew with-in 10 minutes that nothing was going to happen, even though we both thought that we'd developed some feelings and an attraction to each other thru our writing. Thus my suggestion to others would be to have some other plan, even if you do only write to 1 woman.
Fortuneately I never got to put my back-up plan into to motion, as I was introduced to Marina (who wasn't in an agency) by her 1/2 sister, and so far its happily ever after...aloha

[Ryan]

... in response to For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long), posted by Oatmeal on Oct 29, 2001

I would like to just add that I also went through what you experienced with corresponding to a woman that had been previously involved with a bad UM.  Like yours it really did not show through in her letters to me but was very clear when we met.  She even compared me to the guy at one time and that about blew me out of the water.  This was the only girl that I went to see so I made the best of it and chocked it off to experience.  I am now in a new search process and again have one woman that I really enjoy her letters.  Yes I can see myself falling into the “emotional feeling through our e-mails,” it is so hard not to do this.  I fully agree with your catch 22 scenario and as you I will have to force myself to correspond with a few more ladies.  

New people in this search should try and learn something from our posts, or at least become more aware and educated about developing a process that will ensure greater success.  Draft a process out that works for you.  There is so much good advice here on this board you should be able to screen threw the junk and make a decent plan up.  These plans help keep your heart from getting broken so easily.  
Ryan

[Katya]

... in response to For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long), posted by Oatmeal on Oct 29, 2001

I appreciate your post. Perhaps I could add something to the single/multi girl letter writing question. Perhaps once true love has been declared by both sides - then only writing to one girl is necessary.

I hope that you & your fiancee are very happy.

Katya

[Go2Rus]

... in response to Re: For Katya. (Sorry it is a bit long), posted by Katya on Oct 29, 2001

Katya, there is a tradition on this board that the guys will jump all over each other when one has a lapse in logic, but the guys will go out of their way to let ladies get away with utter nonsense.  This is unfair to all involved and is not even fair to the ladies who contribute here because they get a false sense of the 'rightness' of their positions.

But, here I must break tradition and note to you that your statements on this one vs many ladies to visit is naiviety at its very worst.

Your previous statement "Perhaps once true love has been declared by both sides - then only writing to one girl is necessary."  illustrates this in spades.

All of us know that if the two parties, based on correspondence, have declared their 'true love' then they both need to go see mental health professionals as soon as possible.

Katya, I know you are trying to help, but you need to stand back for a moment and give this some serious thought.  It doesn't matter the experience that you and your husband had.  You have to be able to see the big picture and think in terms of probablilites that will happen to the average man and lady in most cases.

If you really want to help in this process, I suggest you try to educate as many ladies as you can about the practicalities involved.  They should be educated to expect and even welcome the fact that the man is at least smart enough to know that he should not be placing all of his eggs in one basket as he spends his money, and more importantly his valuable vacation time and even years of his life, to make preparations for these trips to FSU.

Sorry to be the one to send you a wake up call, and now I will get ready for the onslaught toward me for saying this to 'one of the ladies.'

[KenC]

... in response to Rebuttal to  Katya, posted by Go2Rus on Oct 29, 2001

Go2,
Falling in love via email is just looking for trouble.  The odds of that love being real has got to be almost impossible.  I am sure that it does happen though.

I spoke to my now wife daily for over two months before I went to meet her.  We were close and we "knew" each other rather well, but we were also intelligent enough not to profess any kind of love for each other.  After my first visit to be with her, our conversations took on a much more realistic tone.  We had spent time together and knew we had a great attraction for each other (chemistry).  I have often said here that emails or phone calls CAN help a relationship progress AFTER you have met.  Before meeting, any communication is just setting the table for a relationship at best or a fantasy at worst.
KenC
ps (Anyone who jumps on you for your post is just a "suck up".  And we have a few of those who post to this board. LOL)

[Oatmeal]

... in response to Rebuttal to  Katya, posted by Go2Rus on Oct 29, 2001

Katya was saying that it is a good idea to write only one lady after some kind of mutual understanding that they have some kind of strond feelings or even love each other.  

My point being that how can you really know for sure until after you have met in person.  From what I understand Katya and her husband had some strong feelings for each other after some correspondance, which is great.  And maybe they did have some dream or image of love in their minds but I believe that it was only confirmed after they had met in person.  I think that if Katya's husband  had been a real disgusting guy in person then all those feelings of love would have immediately vanished from Katya's side of things.

Again, the point is that you won't be for sure until you meet in person and in that case IMHO that a man would do well to make a solid plan to try to insure a successful trip.  Otherwise he will be going on blind faith.  But it will depend on the guy I suppose.  I just would not want to leave such a thing up to such a large risk.  I am not much of a gambler.

[Oatmeal]

... in response to Re: I think the point is...., posted by Oatmeal on Oct 29, 2001

In support or defense of my previous comments I would like to tell everyone something that really changed the tide for me when I was in Odessa.

I was meeting with this one girl from Odessa.  Her older sister had come to visit from Seattle and she joined us.  I was very honest when speaking with her older sister and told her that I had come to Odessa to meet with several ladies.  She told me that a man can keep on looking around for prettier and prettier ladies and likely he will continue to find ladies that will attract him for any number of different reasons but what will make the difference is when you find a lady you really like you should try to invest some of your real self in her and that will only come by spending time with her and only her for a while with no distractions.  

What she said to me really changed things for me and I took her advice and quit trying to arrange so many different dates once I found a lady that I really liked.  So I spent the rest of my time with only this one lady and gave love a chance to grow.  I think that if I had kept on dating then I would not have given the seeds of love a chance to grow.  

Sometimes to make progress you must step back and relax.  Just another important point to my previous posts.  I still think it is important to make contact with several ladies and meet them but also say that once you meet a lady you have some special feelings for then you should really consider to make that a more exclusive arrangement.

[BrianN]

... in response to Rebuttal to  Katya, posted by Go2Rus on Oct 29, 2001

Katya has her opinions, based on her own experience in life being a uw/rw.  You've got yours.  I've got mine, the stans, oatmeals, ryans.. pats... everybody has theirs.  

There are no "single issues" that will define every answer to this, because that would lead to such over-simplification that the troll terrorists would be having a field day.  As well every other man would be embarrassed because the specifics of his own situation/needs would eliminate his participation on the board.

Katya's opinions, can actually be equated to a wake up call for those that are doing the wrong thing.  I wonder how many people read this thread but never post, but gain some real perspective into the mind of an rw by reading what she writes here.  

Even if you feel they're wrong, other people may not, and either way, they're still a valuable asset to determine how they think.  

Remember, if you've got a rw here, then it's not just SHE that has to learn how you think and operate, but also YOU, that must learn how she does also.  Then there's a mutal ground somewhere in between.

Without this type of cooperation and communication from both parties, then any kind of expectation of success, is doomed.  By the way, I don't think she meant, in the real sense "true love" any more than you thought you needed to see a health professional.... it is just a particular choice of words she used to make a long detailed explanation, a short one.  

Hmmm. If Katya was your wife, would you still argue this point in this way?  It is a two way street...

Keep posting Katya, I am learning a lot more about rw (in general) by your posts.