I hate long threads so,,

[yoe]

lp, I know you like an old shoe. Dan I got your number too. I tell you guys what, if we were to meet in any situation other that here, we would have a great laugh together-----I know this. I have a best friend in Costa Rica that could be an lp impersonator. Ok what do you guys want. I have written my story many times, but I will try a short version.
I was in Chicago with a friend who had been dating AW online-
I wrote to 5 gals-
He called me and said, "the model wrote you!"
I thought it was this amazing model woman from Moscow-
it was not-
instead it was this sweet woman with a gentle smile I have never seen before-
so I start writing-
I never wrote the others back-
I started writing and receiving letters when I realized that she was writing about things I wrote in a book in college-10 years earlier-
I was suprised-
I was not looking for love just a good person who wanted to travel the world-
I decided to meet on valentine's day-
The first day we met, I ask her, "if you had a little girl what would you name her?"
she said, "I have no children and do not think of it but I like Alexandra"!
That is the exact name I was thinking about......swear to God
the first day I kissed her-----and that was it
I had not been emotionally attached to a woman in years even though I had left a 2.5 year relationship a year ealier-
call it what you will but we were both suprised.
we met again in europe--
6 months later she came to me---we are of the same cloth
there was no fantasy no dreaming-
We knew that we were the same.
before she came my company lost about 75k and was in trouble-
I needed 5k to get her-
that day before I got the tickets a man ask me to publish his book-
it was 5k------name Russian Politics-
there are so many odd things that happened to keep us together you would not belive it. there is not enough time and I must help clean the house before mama comes tomorrow-but you get the idea-
Since she has been her-we bought a new 4 bedroom house, 2 new cars, are income has incfeased by 50k----Do I need my wife to be complete?
Do I need my wife to be happy?
answer: Yes
Peace and good luck
Joe

[LP]

... in response to I hate long threads so,,, posted by yoe on Oct 15, 2001

...and you did so well down below. Ok, one at a time.

It's not that you "gain" anything by being positive, it's that your utopic "insights" may be negative to others just starting out. Besides, your method of meeting her twice and doing the deed based only on your infatuation of each other (at the time), is not a wise avenue to pursue for anyone who wishes to avoid problems. It's not "my" way, it's common sense.

Yeah, I know. You would think this self evident, and we're all big boys, but we've all seen many examples of guys who are so desperate it clearly effects their thinking. You wouldn't wanna give 'em the wrong idea now would you?

Btw, I forgot to ask. Did you learn the lanquage, culture and history of her country during those early days?
Have you now?

So you done good, thats great, from what I've seen you've greased it better than most. The point is that others need to know the dark side and your constant enumerating on seemingly inane aspects of your union does not give an accurate picture of all that could be involved for the rest of us. You are a resource here, for sure, but you need to change your tactics. Of course, maybe you just want to be the clown, I don't know. If so, it's to bad, you could offer so much more.

Not seeking approval? Why are you here? To provide us some cool insights? lol...Come on, all class clowns seek approval, you're an open book Joseph.

I agree, you don't need to prove squat. In fact, you're quite good at it. In the future, try to give us some insights on the daily interaction between you and her as it would apply to *us*, not your particular situation.
After all, she's taken, and everyone's other is a different person. So, offer us some cultural insights *we* can use if our time comes.

If you have nothing bad to say about R/W, than stick to what you know and tell us the good in a way that we can learn from. And just because *you* have nothing bad to say doesn't mean they're all sugar and spice. The "seek the Golden Grail, you shall be rewarded" comment is a good example. Yikes!

And try to do it in an objective way. Sure, I see that you're smitten, I understand that, but if it gets in the way too often you're not much good to us. Almost as useless as the current stuff.

So, you admit you were on a mission? Hmmm...I see.

I don't live "freely", I just haven't allowed them to
pin me to the wall with a document. There isn't a guy here who wouldn't like to have all the benefits with none of the risks, if they say otherwise they're lying. In this pursuit though, marraige though is a given, all the more reason to get it right from sources offering something more substantial than clean shirts, vacuuming and making the bed.

And if I did live as you say, just exactly "who" would I be "hurting"? I don't, but millions of people (including *tons* of R/W) live this way.

Me thinks you simply need someone to be "complete".
Ok, fair enough, I actually agree somewhat. Whats marriage got to do with that? Oh yeah, the committment thing,I forgot. And the fact that you *must* marry these women.

That would be the same committment thing at the divorce as at the end of a long term unmarried deal, right?
They sure have different outcomes, though. All the more reason to be watch what goes on during this adventure.

As far as sleeping with dogs and getting fleas, that's the problem I have, when dealing with many of those who go about this the stupid way and screw it up for the rest of us.

You must be a small minded guy to think I'm living such a depraved exsistence. I could go on and on about it, but that would be wrong. Suffice to say I don't suffer from the quandries many here do, (even the cost of travel, remember?) and those who write me off the board know this. Thanks for the concern, but I've got a better deal than many, even as I write, and I don't need to go across the pond to find it. If one has confidence, passable looks, style and grace when needed, one can do just fine with women of almost any age or vocation. My observation is that the confidence part, not looks, seems to be whats lacking in most. And try to keep in mind that vanity and confidence in one's own abilities are quite different things.

One needs to understand A/W in general also, an effort few men seem to make, especially the anti A/W freaks here. They are as good as anything from the FSU, and contrary to popular opinion, are out there in droves. The age issue is no more a challenge than with R/W, 10 to 15 years is not a problem. Geez, come on, if I can do it, *anyone* can.

Even then, I have reached a point where I must decide and it's not easy because I have been cursed with too many options, an unwanted miscalculation on my part. In spite of what you may think Yoe, I'm desperately trying to avoid hurting people. In fact, I'd rather just blow the whole thing off than do so.

lol...So don't cry for me Yoey, just try to give us some meat instead of fluff. Also, lighten up, eh? As long as you're here shining the light, I'll be here to show the darkside.

It doesn't mean I think all is lost (quite the contrary), but someone's gotta do it.

For WmGo: I never considered this a feud after he was an insensitive idiot. I'm just responding to his posts. lol...you should see me when I feud.

Huff: Sorry, ya got it all wrong. Thats the problem with this medium, it doesn't show all. Thats why Yoe doesn't know me like a book at all. Vomit inducing loser from Montana? lol...Where did ya get that? I think you need to spend some more time around your own gender, or at least women who *haven't* been abused, because you've obviously put women so high on a pedestal you can't see what they are from there, but other than that, you seem sensible.

Oh, and for John: You don't know squat about me pal, put the shrink hat away because you really stink at it. I don't have to even be here, why are you?

[WmGo]

... in response to Geez...., posted by LP on Oct 15, 2001

Hey LP!

Perhaps my use of the word "feud" was too strong. No doubt, the prudent man watches where he goes in order to avoid the fall.
At any rate, I agree with you on the 10 to 15 year age difference for AW being easy. Ten to fifteen is SOP ( could that be the name of a new rock song?).  

Regards from the Sunny Southland where the blue skies rule!

WmGO

[KenC]

... in response to Geez...., posted by LP on Oct 15, 2001

LP,
You have hit upon another great point: if a person "needs" another to be happy, they have some issues to deal with.  The whole codependent idea is very relevant here.  Too many unhappy guys are looking for a RW to "fix" their personal shortcomings.  They jump right out of the frying pan into the fire.  

Personally, I was pretty dam happy with my life before I met my wife.  Don't get me wrong, she has enhanced my life in ways I could never explain and I would never trade what I have now for what I had before her.  But the fact remains that I was content before I met her.  Actually, I think I was a lot like you are, LP, not interested in getting married.  Why screw up a good life style?  I had very specific criteria and high standards in regard to women.  I was sure that I never would come upon one that would be a "good fit" for me.  But that was OK, too.  I was never going to lower my standards or change my criteria.  The funny thing about having this kind of attitude is that it attacks women like crazy.  I never had a problem filling my dance card, as I am sure you, LP, do not either.

In an earlier post, you said that live in relationships are the same as being married.  No way are you correct on that one.  The lack of commitment changes everything.

I also agree that it is sickening how some posters here gush all over posts made by FSU women.  Nothing they write can be challenged without being considered a bully.  That type of thinking is very strange to me.  I wonder how stable these "suck ups" are.  I say this, but at the same time I will say that Russian Wife is a pretty reasonable and good poster here and always has been.
KenC

[WmGo]

... in response to my 2 cents (reposted from below), posted by KenC on Oct 16, 2001

"The lack of commitment changes everything."

I agree.

I also agree with the codependancy issue. We should be complete in the Lord. If He chooses to bless with a mate it is all the better.

[LP]

... in response to my 2 cents (reposted from below), posted by KenC on Oct 16, 2001

...Yep, it's a fact. One of the biggest changes I have had to struggle with lately is the dawning realization that the majority of those involved have some real issues that won't be solved by any woman.

In the beginning I assumed it was a minority, the old guys who go to socials and a small outer fringe of losers.
Sadly, I see now it's far beyond that. The trolls are really correct in many cases, I just wish they wouldn't apply it to the minority among us who are stable extroverts looking for something different.

Why are guys in such a rush to remarry after a bad experience when they can have the benefits without the mess at the end? I never remarried after 1977 because I didn't need to, and the variety of three longterm relatonships has been my spice of life. Of course, with these women, marriage is a given.

The attitude "attacks" women? lol...OK, I understand, thats actually a funny typo, most of mine don't make such sense.
I never thought of it that way, my experience has been that A/W are pretty easy to deal with, especially the younger ones. They're are easier to "work" (for lack of a better word...I would hate to say manipulate) than mature women because most have dating experience only and the living arrangement is new to them.

Again, I've always had a live in partner since 78, so the dating thing is new to me these days. I see now it hasn't changed much at all from my younger days. Women never change on a core level, especially the kids.

Sorry, you'll never get me to agree about the "commitment".
thing. I never said there wasn't any commitment in an unmarried live in deal, I said there were no legal aspects.
I saw as much commitment as in any marriage (I was with one woman for 13 years) and I believe the legal aspect makes zero difference, except at the end, when it makes *all* the difference in the world. After a few years, the relationship is indistingquishable from a marriage if the people involved have the same commitment to make it work.

Are you trying to convince me that a piece of paper somehow "changes" what two people think about each other
and how they conduct their life together? Sorry, I have too much experience in the realm of the unmarried domestic partner to accept that. A woman will stick it to you (or not) either way, and at that time that little document (and the vows made) usually will mean nothing but grief for the poor guy involved. Weren't you married only one time before, for 20 odd years? What good did commitment do you then? People change, commitment fades or new ones are made, and *everyone* is in love the day they marry. It's life, just one big crap shoot

I often times wonder if there is a need to get married at all, unless children are to be involved, or one really cares about the tax or legal benefits (which are more than offset by what occurs at the end.) Or if one is chasing a very risky dream from the FSU, a situation where it's wise to have *more* time before doing the deed. Unfortunately, "We The Sheeple" aren't allowed that privledge.

I understand where you're coming from, however. You're in love and a romantic kinda guy. Believe it or not, so am I.
But in reality, nothing is forever, I'd have thought your previous experience would have taught you that.

I also agree Russian Wife is a good gal, after all, she exhibits many of the same traits that make her "kind" so alluring to us. I hope I end up with someone like her if I continue. She misunderstands me is all. I just think folks need to be more objective if they have something to say, and not let their perosnal situation color their views.

Contrary to what many may think, I try hard not to do that and *do* look at all sides of an issue and I'm not as down on this as many think. I just want people to use thier heads, because it relfects on all of us and eventually our fine government will take steps to "protect" us from ourselves, thereby making it a hassle for the stable
guys involved.

Thanks again for your kind wishes.

[WmGo]

... in response to It's true....., posted by LP on Oct 16, 2001

LP,

Just one comment. I respectfully submit that marriage is much more than mere human physical legal declaration. Properly understood, it is a spiritual covenant of which the Creator is a party. Yes, it is too bad that people break it. It is a shame. If marriage was just a piece of paper there would not be so many people walking around permanently scarred from the breach.
The recognition of the spiritual reality of marriage *does* have a major bearing on how the man and the woman conduct themselves in the marriage. This is one of the reasons that the King decrees to "be not unequally yoked with an unbeliever."
It is even more difficult for the covenant to be kept when both are unbelievers.
Man is a special creation with three elements - mind(soul), body and spirit. All three need to be fed...

Food for thought.

Regards!

WmGonnafeedthespiritwiththeLivingWord

[LP]

... in response to The Three Elements, posted by WmGo on Oct 17, 2001

...the scars can be just as deep when the paper is absent.

I can see your point when described in those terms using your beliefs, ie, "properly understood". If those involved felt as such, it would mean something, but to have the "effect" as you describe it would require the people involved to also share those beliefs.

I guess my "problem" stems from the acceptance that those beliefs seem not prevelant these days. Put another way, you see the ideal, I see the reality.

The strange thing is, I hope you're right and I'm wrong.

I gotta say Wm, I continualy find you among the most levelheaded, thoughtful and articulate posters here. I'm afraid I can't share your spiritual enthusiasm, but I suspect there is much truth and wisdom to be found there.

Hey, no offense, but haven't you heard?

The King is dead.

[WmGo]

... in response to I submit that...., posted by LP on Oct 17, 2001

The good news is that He is Risen! (Acts 1:3; 4:10) Just as He promised. (Matthew 20:18-19) And is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Hebrews 1:3)

And He will return for His bride. (1 Thess. 4:16-17; Matthew 24:31)

Don't be left behind.

Thanks for the compliments.

P.S. Did you know that even the latter days proclamation that "God is dead" ( ala Nietsche's Gotterdomerung) is fulfillment of prophecy? (2 Peter 3: 3-4) The spiritual world is just as real as the physical.

[LP]

... in response to Concerning the King..., posted by WmGo on Oct 17, 2001

...Elvis is alive?  Dam! I knew it! He's been hiding in
plain sight all along, masquerading as a skydiver.

You're wrong about one thing though. No way he has another chance with Prisilla.

[WmGo]

... in response to No Way!...., posted by LP on Oct 18, 2001

That was funny! LOL!

[yoe]

... in response to Geez...., posted by LP on Oct 15, 2001

I think that I was just complimented. OK here is the deal....I am cleaning house now-I mean literally-for babushka-yes I help. Let's you and I cool it huh? We had fun. we have been down this road many times. We will have to meet sometime for a laugh. But until then-----you quite bustin' these guys who have a little skip in their step and I will quite filling the room with helium. OK. I know you can do it. You can be tactful and not crass. And I can be playful and not an as$......see
OK gotta go
it is been fun and play nice\
God bless you all and I hope things work out for everyone-especially me
Joe

[WmGo]

... in response to I hate long threads so,,, posted by yoe on Oct 15, 2001

Hey Yoe,

I am sorry that you and LP continue to feud. Frankly, I like both of you. I like your positive make things happen no matter what attitude; I share it. I also share LP's realism and caution. I think LP interprets your optimism as being blind reckless abandon. I think you interpret him as overly cautious and pessimistic.

I subscribe to the Golden Middle - the positive optimist willing to take risks - but moving forward with relevant information in hand in order to avoid the snare. Informed action is critical to success in any undertaking. I have a feeling that you put more thought and planning into your success than you let on. At any rate, rock on.  

Regards from the South!

WmGO

[yoe]

... in response to Re: I hate long threads so,,, posted by WmGo on Oct 15, 2001

I am just as guilty as my buddy LP. I know it. But we both too stubborn to let go of the reins. You are very right and and I am a firm believer in the 'Golden mean". LP will be ok and so will I. I just hope that those who are searching can fish through the poop and find some good stuff from us both. WM thanks
Joe