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Author Topic: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right  (Read 862 times)

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Offline robert angel

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Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« on: October 07, 2018, 08:44:47 PM »
Looks like the next leader of Brazil might be the right wing candidate Jair Bolanaros, who has expressed nostalgia for the military dictatorship that lead Brazil from the mid 60's, the 70's on into the mid 1980's.

Seems like a worldwide trend.

Bolanaros in the hospital recuperating from a stabbing that occured while he was campaigning last month. It's said the knife went into his intestines 4.7 inches and that he lost 40% of his blood..

The last president, Dilma Rouuseff, was impeached, but she's running for the senate

Another former president - - Brazil's most popular politician, imprisoned on corruption charges,  Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, on Tuesday ended his legal battle to run for the top office and supported Bolanaros closest opponent, who wasn't that close.

It will go to a run off.

What a mess.

Brazil is the world's 9th economy -- larger than Canada's (10th) and Russia's (11th)
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Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2018, 08:37:10 AM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.

Offline mudd

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 10:07:40 AM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.




seems somebody has some issues with all Brazilians, woww no generalization there. ;D

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 10:07:40 AM »

Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 10:42:48 AM »



seems somebody has some issues with all Brazilians, woww no generalization there. ;D

Ok, Mudd, I will present this to you:


This is when we were travelling to Uruguay and up until then none of us had any problems with them. So we spend the day in the country's largest city and EVERYONE is rude to us. It wasn't until the six of us were comparing notes that we realized we had all come to the same conclusion - we hate these people!


Meanwhile on the same trip we spent the day in Mexico City and everyone was great - kind and helpful. All of our interactions were pleasant and we loved the city.


So what conclusions are you going to draw about the Brazilians and the Mexicans at least as displayed in Sao Paulo and Mexico City?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 10:58:03 AM by utopiacowboy »

Offline mambocowboy

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 12:43:48 PM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.
I don't hate Brazilians.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 04:13:15 PM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.

I don't even dislike all 210,867,954 Brazilians. (2018 pop. est.) I actually kinda feel sorry for most of them. Perhaps they fecked themselves over by and large for an awfully long time, but here, there and pretty much everywhere around the world, a large % of people are getting bad deals from their govts.

Being the most prosperous nation in S. America, I am pretty sure there's a bunch of folks there who think they're better than everybody else. And that they share a fervent nationalistic spirit with a lot of natives there who don't even have all their money. No different than a lot of nations, such as Argentina especially, and elsewhere, France, the USA to name a small fraction of such nations. A lot of rudeness typically goes along with mindset

In the USA, the so called 'middle class' is shrinking, although people making $18,000 to a quarter million dollars a year or even more (varies a bit by location) tend to label themselves as 'middle class'.

Sort of odd, but true. And a lot of those people would love to kick out of their nation anybody who looks or acts differently than they do.

It was said a long time ago "People get the government they deserve", but that was in reference to democracies in the 1700 and 1800's, and short of a good, old fashioned insurrection or revolution, when there's nobody worth voting for, (IMO often the case today) the old saying does not seem to carry the weight it once did.

You could say that politicians today are like diapers --they're both full of sh!t and should be changed often. They stink

That begs the question: "If you don't like them, why don't YOU run for office?". But poltical campaigns and the office that goes to the um---'winner'---are typically the result of a whole lotta money from people with 'inside connections' -- big money that funds slanderous TV and radio commercials. Then, the candidates that spend the most typically win and are obligated to their 'donors'.

Not a lot of good, decent people have that kind of money---at not least money that isn't tied to rich and powerful special interests. Nor do they typically have the stomach to stoop so low as to campaign in the manner it takes to win an election in the USA nowadays.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 07:35:42 PM by robert angel »
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Offline Wildstubby

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 05:55:47 PM »
Utopiacowboy said:
Quote
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.
Tell us how you really feel! ;) I never met any to form any kind of bias. I really don't have any desire to go there either. I saw how they screwed up the Olympics and figured they don't really give a rat's bohunkous!

Offline mudd

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 07:18:34 AM »
Quote
So what conclusions are you going to draw about the Brazilians and the Mexicans at least as displayed in Sao Paulo and Mexico City?


seems like your whole group had problems lol.  depends on what city you going too in Brazil and mexico. when i was in Brazil, i didnt have any problems.  maybe was your attitude or the city your were in.


 as for mexico, depends the city and your attitude also . been to many, never had a problem, other than Tijuana. which many people ( mexicans) there do not like gringos.   but your statement seems pretty far fetched and one sided. 180 million and all are jerks, come on!!!!




Offline benjio

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 09:31:19 AM »
Ok, Mudd, I will present this to you:


This is when we were travelling to Uruguay and up until then none of us had any problems with them. So we spend the day in the country's largest city and EVERYONE is rude to us. It wasn't until the six of us were comparing notes that we realized we had all come to the same conclusion - we hate these people!


Meanwhile on the same trip we spent the day in Mexico City and everyone was great - kind and helpful. All of our interactions were pleasant and we loved the city.


So what conclusions are you going to draw about the Brazilians and the Mexicans at least as displayed in Sao Paulo and Mexico City?


I hate Sao Paulo. Everything that's wrong with a big, crowded city times ten and HELL YES most of the people are very rude. IMHO there's simply not enough space for everyone there so the locals lash out. Traffic is a nightmare everyday. Even Sundays. However, I've been all over Brazil. I lived there for years. Saying all Brazilians are like Paulistas and your experience in every city in Brazil would be the same is like saying everywhere in the U.S. is like New York City and all Americans act like New Yorkers. It simply isn't true. I don't imagine you'd ever go but back but generally as you travel further north the people get a lot friendlier and the culture changes quite a bit.

Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 10:05:46 AM »

I hate Sao Paulo. Everything that's wrong with a big, crowded city times ten and HELL YES most of the people are very rude. IMHO there's simply not enough space for everyone there so the locals lash out. Traffic is a nightmare everyday. Even Sundays. However, I've been all over Brazil. I lived there for years. Saying all Brazilians are like Paulistas and your experience in every city in Brazil would be the same is like saying everywhere in the U.S. is like New York City and all Americans act like New Yorkers. It simply isn't true. I don't imagine you'd ever go but back but generally as you travel further north the people get a lot friendlier and the culture changes quite a bit.


Unfortunately our experience was in Sao Paulo so it gave us negative feelings about the entire country. Meanwhile in Uruguay everyone is really chill - one of the coolest countries in the world and I am glad that very few gringos go there.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 11:38:33 AM »

Saying all Brazilians are like Paulistas and your experience in every city in Brazil would be the same is like saying everywhere in the U.S. is like New York City and all Americans act like New Yorkers.

When's the last time you were in NYC? I was amazed a few years back at how much it had changed. Lots of mostly young police now, who unlike a lot of NYC cops in the past,  were super friendly. So were most shop keepers and the people in general.

I remember one time, we were in the subway. Our multi trip card had been used up. We had gotten inside, but had used our last trip, but for the wrong direction.

A lady--a total stranger, dressed to the nines--pearls and all, walked us out, up the stairs, across the street busy street, then used HER transit card and paid our fares, then refused our trying to pay her.

I spent a lot of years on what were then the mean, dirty streets of NYC, with cops that'd tell me to 'F'' off or shake me down. There were hypodermic needles and condoms in the streets and people who rarely looked each other in the eye. Times Square, 42nd St, was porno, drug copping central, otherwise deserted.

It sure as hell has changed.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 01:13:43 PM »

I hate Sao Paulo. Everything that's wrong with a big, crowded city times ten and HELL YES most of the people are very rude. IMHO there's simply not enough space for everyone there so the locals lash out. Traffic is a nightmare everyday. Even Sundays. However, I've been all over Brazil. I lived there for years. Saying all Brazilians are like Paulistas and your experience in every city in Brazil would be the same is like saying everywhere in the U.S. is like New York City and all Americans act like New Yorkers. It simply isn't true. I don't imagine you'd ever go but back but generally as you travel further north the people get a lot friendlier and the culture changes quite a bit.

I've spent a good amount of time in bad Manila, Philippines,  which many years, comes in as the world's most densely populated city. AND it's immediately surrounded by humongous other cities--Quezon, Pasig, Pasay, etc. It too has gotten a lot better, although I probably wouldn't flaunt an iphone, Rolex, gold jewelry,  etc.

But Sao Paulo--just the images online, on top of the posts, make it sound worse. This poster quoted towards the bottom of this missive seemed to be on the money, from what I gather, as well as on his generalizations.

Too often, people live in a very dangerous place and it seems so 'normal' to them that they downplay it. They'll tell vistors 'It's not THAT bad, just...."

In Manila, even with the considerable improvements the present 'no nonsense' President's policies, where they may simply kill repeat criminals on the streets there--especially if it's drug related, people there won't recommend you travel with valuables visible.

The city where the President was Mayor before he won the presidency, Davao City, is where we have a house. His daughter is Mayor now and their version of law and order still prevails. Even in parts where the 'ladies of the night' ply their trade, even at 3AM anywhere in that city--the second largest in the nation, I don't find myself patting my ass, making sure my phone and wallet are back there. Not like that in big US cities...

Then again, I seem to recall squads targeting groups of people thought as troublesome to the larger populace for death in parts of Brazil, but don't recall reading that much has changed.

Sao Paulo just seems as 'off the chain' as any so called 'first world nation' is presently.

Quote below:

"Which "big city" in Brazil is relatively safe and has a high quality of life?

Short answer:

There aren’t safe cities in Brazil from an European/American standard. It possible to avoid the violence if you want. But there is a cost, both in terms of freedom and money. I never feel safe in Brazil as I feel in the US - specially now that I have children.

Long answer:

During the past 7 years, I have lived or spent (I travel a lot for work) a great amount of time in different cities in the US and in Brazil (states of Oregon, California, Massachusetts, NY, Vermont, New Hampshire, Sao Paulo, Minas Gerais, and Rio). In most of those places I had a life of a local and not of a tourist: took kids to school, commuted, used public transportation, went to the supermarkets and banks, dealt with public services, went to the non-attractive and non-touristic places. I can say that the concept of a safe city for a Brazilian is different, mostly because the bar is too low.

There is a lot of subjectiveness when you use the word “relatively” and you might get different answers, depending on who is answering. Brazilians are generally biased when they say something is safe because they are used to the violence and all the mechanisms they have to use to be safe. Gated communities, armored cars, and armed private security are the norm for median class in big cities, for example.

The answer usually goes like this:

“City X is pretty safe if you don’t go to this neighborhood, don’t use your iPhone in public, don’t walk alone at night, live in a guarded community, don’t use sexy skirts, etc..”.

The sad truth, however, is that there aren’t safe cities here. Violence plagues our cities. Crime rates are very high, police is underfunded and, because of that, Brazilians just had to learn how to deal with it.

But don’t listen to me. Here is what the US Department of State has to say. (You can choose any big city and the answer will be very similar.)


“Crime is a major concern in Brazil, especially in larger cities. Brazilian law enforcement and press sources report an increase in crime after several consecutive years of decreasing crime trends. While crime is a problem throughout the year, there have been noticeable increases in reported incidents during December and January, attributable to a number of factors including: Brazil’s liberal system of prison furloughs that allows for leave during the holidays, a higher percentage of police officers on annual leave during the Christmas season, and that citizens receive a “13th month” bonus that leaves them more disposable income.

Foreigners are not immune to these acts of crime, and American citizens – both private and official – have been victimized. In fact, foreign visitors may be susceptible to targeting for certain crimes in part because visitors may be less likely to file a police report and/or return to testify at criminal proceedings should perpetrators be apprehended by police.”

Here are some facts/links based on a quick google search. I tried to use reliable sources.

21 of the 50 most violet cities in the world are in Brazil".......

https://www.quora.com/Which-big-city-in-Brazil-is-relatively-safe-and-has-a-high-quality-of-life

On the other hand, I would like to vist Morro de São Paulo, Bahia, Brazil--I'm a sucker for isands and nice beaches....
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:31:08 PM by robert angel »
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Offline benjio

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 06:56:43 PM »
When's the last time you were in NYC? I was amazed a few years back at how much it had changed. Lots of mostly young police now, who unlike a lot of NYC cops in the past,  were super friendly. So were most shop keepers and the people in general.

I remember one time, we were in the subway. Our multi trip card had been used up. We had gotten inside, but had used our last trip, but for the wrong direction.

A lady--a total stranger, dressed to the nines--pearls and all, walked us out, up the stairs, across the street busy street, then used HER transit card and paid our fares, then refused our trying to pay her.

I spent a lot of years on what were then the mean, dirty streets of NYC, with cops that'd tell me to 'F'' off or shake me down. There were hypodermic needles and condoms in the streets and people who rarely looked each other in the eye. Times Square, 42nd St, was porno, drug copping central, otherwise deserted.

It sure as hell has changed.


I was in NYC a couple of months ago and go there often for work. You're right! Very different. Lots of gentrification and the attitude definitely isn't what it used to be. I actually miss the "edge." Ultimately I was just using it as an example though. I can understand generalization with respect to a city or a region, but an entire country the size of Brazil? That's taking it a little too far. Either way UC is definitely entitled to his opinion. I wish I could take him some of the places I've been for a week because I think it would really change his viewpoint.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 07:00:13 PM by benjio »

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 06:56:43 PM »

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 10:38:18 AM »

I was in NYC a couple of months ago and go there often for work. You're right! Very different. Lots of gentrification and the attitude definitely isn't what it used to be. I actually miss the "edge." Ultimately I was just using it as an example though. I can understand generalization with respect to a city or a region, but an entire country the size of Brazil? That's taking it a little too far. Either way UC is definitely entitled to his opinion. I wish I could take him some of the places I've been for a week because I think it would really change his viewpoint.


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Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 07:47:50 PM »

I was in NYC a couple of months ago and go there often for work. You're right! Very different. Lots of gentrification and the attitude definitely isn't what it used to be. I actually miss the "edge." Ultimately I was just using it as an example though. I can understand generalization with respect to a city or a region, but an entire country the size of Brazil? That's taking it a little too far. Either way UC is definitely entitled to his opinion. I wish I could take him some of the places I've been for a week because I think it would really change his viewpoint.

Yea, in a weird kind of way I miss the old "edgy" days too. Used to be the minute I stepped off the plane into NYC, (actually Queens) my IQ picked up 10 points. I walked different--faster. I sensed on the streets who to look at and who not to.

Before the decline, with the urban decay that came in the mid 70s, I remember a very different, an almost golden time. We had kids of every color, every nationality, religion and we all played together.

Funny thing was, that for every nation, color and religion, we had, and used in good humor 98% of the time, 'slurs' and it was actually funny.

I might say to a Jewish - Polish buddy--- "Get your belly itching Polish Kike ass back to second base - - I got right fleld". He might reply to my Irish Italian ass-- "Sure, if you think your Guiney-Finegan ass, besides meatballs and potatoes, can catch a fly ball."

We were all mixed in together, in the same neighborhoods, even beyond public housing.

If we had a fistfight, there were unspoken rules. Usually you were better friends after it.

If your fistfight was in school and you explained the other guy said something really bad about your Mom, there was usually no getting suspended.

Nowadays, be it public housing - - 'The Projects' as we called them, into the private apts, homes and townhouses, it's more like checkerboards--areas where people of different backgounds stick with each other.

Yes, we always, and still have Little Italy, Irish bluebllods in Westchester, the Hasidic Jewish diamond district, Spanish and Black Harlem, but even outside of the old enclaves, neighborhoods are more segregated than before.

Different Arab sects, Russian, Albanians, to name but a few distinct neighborhoods. Even outside of the lowest and highest income neighborhoods, there's 98% 'black' and 'white'  neighborhoods.

And a 'look' - - the perception of 'disrespect' - - never mind 'words' taken the wrong way, things that decades ago at most caused a fistfight, will get you shot or stabbed today.

Although guns are hard to get in NYC and have been since the early seventies, a lot of 'scores' are still settled with serious weapons of different types.

That deep, old, 1982 Grandmaster Flash jam line :

"Don't touch me--cause I'm close to the edge"

That still resonates today. Spins in my head when I'm in certain areas, situations. A lot of people are running around with awfully short fuses.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 08:15:58 PM by robert angel »
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Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 08:09:53 PM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 08:15:52 PM »
All of us hate Brazil and hate Brazilians. Rudest people in the world. They can all go f*ck themselves.

My experience in Rio was quite different. The Carioca sitting next to me on the plane when I arrived went out of his way to make sure I found my way to the right line for customs. And no the guy had a family with kids so I don't think he was gay.


People on the street and in stores were also generally nice/pleasant. I hear it is even better outisde the big cities.

Offline robert angel

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Offline buenopues4

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2018, 04:30:29 PM »
I often fly on Emrbaers when traveling in the US. So far non have fallen out of the sky.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2018, 08:18:20 PM »
I always look pretty closely at the details of the jets I'm flying on. Not that I usually have a choice, but at their quality of construction, their level of comfort ( that's somewhat dictated by the airlines though) and more about them, gets my attention.

Embraer, really Brazil's jet and aerospace industry in toto, is world class. Other than the airlines letting their jets get ragged and dirty, I think Embraer does an excellent job. I like em.

Some airlines, notably  China Air, do not maintain their jets and any jet that's severely misused and not maintained is trouble, including their Boeing fleet. We can usually book them and save money to some places, but we never do

Brazil maybe screwed up in a lot of ways, but in a number of areas, including the arts, health care and medical research, they're really world class. It's still a first world nation, overall.

So does Canada's Bombardier--- well built and finished aircraft. Both Brazil and Canada make great, mid sized jets and small wonder they've about taken the best mid sized commercial passenger jet business from the USA's manufacturing sector.

Boeing and France's Airbus still dominate the big commercial airliner market, but Brazil, Canada and also France's Dassault, pretty much own the lucrative midsize airliner market.

I'd be sh!tting a brick if I had to fly on one of the fifth largest commercial airline maker's jet liners---Russia's Tupoloev! Aeroflot anyone? Rather not.....

Elex., You've probably logged more air miles to more places, including eastern bloc, than anyone else here--what do you think?
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Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 11:33:18 AM »
I always look pretty closely at the details of the jets I'm flying on. Not that I usually have a choice, but at their quality of construction, their level of comfort ( that's somewhat dictated by the airlines though) and more about them, gets my attention.

Embraer, really Brazil's jet and aerospace industry in toto, is world class. Other than the airlines letting their jets get ragged and dirty, I think Embraer does an excellent job. I like em.

Some airlines, notably  China Air, do not maintain their jets and any jet that's severely misused and not maintained is trouble, including their Boeing fleet. We can usually book them and save money to some places, but we never do

Brazil maybe screwed up in a lot of ways, but in a number of areas, including the arts, health care and medical research, they're really world class. It's still a first world nation, overall.

So does Canada's Bombardier--- well built and finished aircraft. Both Brazil and Canada make great, mid sized jets and small wonder they've about taken the best mid sized commercial passenger jet business from the USA's manufacturing sector.

Boeing and France's Airbus still dominate the big commercial airliner market, but Brazil, Canada and also France's Dassault, pretty much own the lucrative midsize airliner market.

I'd be sh!tting a brick if I had to fly on one of the fifth largest commercial airline maker's jet liners---Russia's Tupoloev! Aeroflot anyone? Rather not.....

Elex., You've probably logged more air miles to more places, including eastern bloc, than anyone else here--what do you think?


If your concern is air safety stay away from FSU countries..

Tupelov, Andelov, YAK 42 ..flown in the lot and survived..a little vodka always helps

Now Russian MI series helicopters.. another thing..beautiful.machines


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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 05:09:22 PM »
elexpatriado said:
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If your concern is air safety stay away from FSU countries..

Tupelov, Andelov, YAK 42 ..flown in the lot and survived..a little vodka always helps

Now Russian MI series helicopters.. another thing..beautiful.machines
You have to admire some of their mechanics when it comes to aviation. I am familiar with their military Bear long range bomber/reconnaissance  airplanes and their Helix ASW helos. There's a lot to be said about it when it come to contra-rotating props and rotors!

Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 07:21:54 PM »
elexpatriado said:You have to admire some of their mechanics when it comes to aviation. I am familiar with their military Bear long range bomber/reconnaissance  airplanes and their Helix ASW helos. There's a lot to be said about it when it come to contra-rotating props and rotors!

Imagine the Russian Aviation Industry had they not lost Igor Sikorsky! He had already wom major awards there for planes and helicopterz before leaving for the USA in 1919.His helicopters have been the only ones used by US Presidents since 1957.
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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 07:21:54 PM »

Offline robert angel

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2018, 08:47:16 AM »
The newer Sikorski helicopters can fly at 300 MPH. That's faster than the USA Military's most advanced models, even the Apache.

While the first attempts at helicopters go way back to 1754, it was Sikorski who finally got working models flying, predating the Wright Brothers.

He also developed the first commercial airplanes for Pan American, sea planes, because no aircraft runways existed then.

Like most great inventors, he experienced his share of failures, before achieving great success.

Interesting that after trying in the USA and repeatedly failing, he was ready to totally quit, when fellow Russian, legendary, successful Russian expatriate, symphony composer and conducter, Sergei Vasilyevich Rachmaninoff, who saw promise, gave him $5000, which enabled Sikorsky to finally succeed.
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Offline Wildstubby

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Re: Brazil--bloody elections, leaning right
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2018, 10:51:01 AM »
Robert angel said:
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The newer Sikorski helicopters can fly at 300 MPH. That's faster than the USA Military's most advanced models, even the Apache.
Whether you know it or not, they have them that can fly faster than that. When I was at NASA LRC, they had finished the modeling in the wind tunnel for a helo that would fly at Mach speeds. Their prototype did about 530Kts! That was over 30 years ago!

 

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