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Author Topic: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....  (Read 9154 times)

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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2018, 09:54:53 AM »

I am sure that many guys can speak Spanish - my point was we actually do speak Spanish all day severy day. So while I agree that many guys can speak Spanish, I doubt that it is part of their daily lives.

UC,

You've mentioned that in her work and in general,  that your wife speaks little English. Perhapsthat necessitates you, as the person who's better picked up a second language to use it predominantly? Maybe she's like me, in that she has a difficult time picking up a new language. I couldn't even pick up on pig Latin as a kid on the playground...

I still coach my wife on pronunciation (at home it's probably more off, more relaxed than at her work) and I sometimes go over more important written business correspondence she writes.

My wife, on her own initiative,  has taken formal group classes for written and spoken English and done more one on one with Speech Pathologists, who offer free services through a m local University grad school.

But she still frets about her English capabilities,  as it's essentially English based, although now, LOL, as their ECommerce specialist, she's had to put her company's huge catalog of items into French, for their Quebec opertaions.

I guess where you live, English is less essential than where we do, but do you have mixed feelings about the situation?
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Offline benjio

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2018, 10:18:58 AM »
I have met dozens of gringos married to Colombianas they met in Colombia and almost all of them spoke Spanish at a conversational level. If a Colombiana hasn't put significant effort into learning English before you started dating her, that process usually won't begin until she actually gets stateside and realizes she can't communicate with a lot of people. What that usually means is if you want to build a healthy relationship where you and the Colombiana communicate well, you're going to have to teach yourself Spanish. This is what I've seen happen more times than not. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever known a Colombiana that started dating a gringo not knowing English, got engaged to him and learned to speak English before she got to the U.S. It just doesn't happen. So with respect to UC's point, I think speaking strictly Spanish in the home is much more common than you think....at least the first couple of years of marriage. I might be wrong.




Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2018, 12:32:44 PM »
I have met dozens of gringos married to Colombianas they met in Colombia and almost all of them spoke Spanish at a conversational level. If a Colombiana hasn't put significant effort into learning English before you started dating her, that process usually won't begin until she actually gets stateside and realizes she can't communicate with a lot of people. What that usually means is if you want to build a healthy relationship where you and the Colombiana communicate well, you're going to have to teach yourself Spanish. This is what I've seen happen more times than not. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever known a Colombiana that started dating a gringo not knowing English, got engaged to him and learned to speak English before she got to the U.S. It just doesn't happen. So with respect to UC's point, I think speaking strictly Spanish in the home is much more common than you think....at least the first couple of years of marriage. I might be wrong.


Fifteen years of nothing but Spanish. Hell sometimes I am watching TV or listening to the radio and I forget what language I am even listening to.


My real point though is how many gringo husbands even know who these people are: J Balvin, Maluma, Ozuna, Becky G, Natti Natasha, Bad Bunny, Nicky Jam? They stay in the gringo culture and never get out of it.

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2018, 12:32:44 PM »

Offline Calipro

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2018, 03:38:40 PM »

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Most men who marry foreign wives are not interested in expanding their cultural horizons. I am probably the only gringo married to a Spanish speaking wife who actually speaks Spanish. Whenever I am at the Spanish language Mass I have never seen another gringo there ever. It kind of amuses the Mexican-Americans to see me there actually but they are always very polite.


A gringo absolutely must learn Spanish to understand their Spanish speaking wife or girlfriend.
There are fundamental differences in the way we see the world because of the differences in our languages and religion if you aren't already catholic.


https://www.ted.com/talks/lera_boroditsky_how_language_shapes_the_way_we_think?language=en

The video touches on some of the differences of the Spanish language at about the 4:15 mark.

Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2018, 06:49:18 PM »
My amiga's "Care" quarterly package finally passed customs at Puerto Cruz this morning. Food, OTC medicines, toiletries, diapers, clothes, and shoes, even school supplies were delivered. A family member who emigrated 6 years ago has been organizing this for a number of years now.


One will know when things get really bad there when, if in the future, Venezuelan customs finally stops all influx of items from Venezuelan emigrants that live in other countries. Or tariffs rise so high it becomes impossible to ship.   

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »
My amiga's "Care" quarterly package finally passed customs at Puerto Cruz this morning. Food, OTC medicines, toiletries, diapers, clothes, and shoes, even school supplies were delivered. A family member who emigrated 6 years ago has been organizing this for a number of years now.


One will know when things get really bad there when, if in the future, Venezuelan customs finally stops all influx of items from Venezuelan emigrants that live in other countries. Or tariffs rise so high it becomes impossible to ship.   


What have you heard about (if even possible) sending USD$?


I hear because of all the (40,000%+) inflation and other related issues, that sending USD's isn't feasible--that as there's a shortage of their own money on hand there, the 'black market' to exchange USD's is better, but still extremely uneven, risky. Food, diapers, OTC medicines--I hear they really are hard to get.


My wife went home to the Philippines and she timed her 'care packages'--known as 'balikbayon boxes'--they must have weighed 250 pounds if they weighed an ounce--to arrive a week before she got there. That way, as 'returning princess' her luggage overage wasn't too bad.


But OTC meds like naproxen (Aleve) and things like Levis, Nikes, Adidas etc. are much, much cheaper in the USA. But that naproxen --they love it for aches and pains, so we sent a lot of that, along with a multitude of useful and some fun things "USA style"--clothes, electronic tablets, cell phones etc--a king's ransom in chocolate--they were very happy.


Besides--- their peso is weak, the USD is close to an all time high against it, so she was able to show them a 'good time on the town' while there. Still, for just about anything that's a USA brand, or any electronics, it was a lot cheaper to send it there than to exchange USDs to pesos and buy the same item there.


But Venezuela? Do you even get to--dare to visit her and her family yourself? I can't imagine the complications, the trying to visit, to try and get a fiancee or spousal visa--such a sad mess.


I wish we could carpet bomb their nation with pampers, OTC and needed pharm meds, candy bars, bread, potatoes, mac n cheese and spam......
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Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2018, 11:28:18 AM »
robert angel wrote:
Quote
I wish we could carpet bomb their nation with pampers, OTC and needed pharm meds, candy bars, bread, potatoes, mac n cheese and spam......

Now this reminds me of a scene from the movie "El Cid" where  The Cid (not Sid Cherise) is laying siege to Valencia controlled by the Moors. In a key scene he yells out to the besieged within the walls: "I do not bring you fire and the sword. I bring you BREAD!!!!!". And the trebuchets are let loose filled with loaves of bread. After the bread lands withing the walls and the populace find the bread lying in the streets, the Moorish Caliph is overthrown by the mob. Great Scene.

All items mentioned by Robert, it would "turn the tide" so to speak and I would include chocolates for the hembras especially. ;)  It is too bad our enlightened politicos do not take a lesson from history and try it. Imagine Trump 'tweeting' such a message similar to El Cid's. And then following through with it. But no!!!! There is no great profit margin in dropping 'bread' instead of bombs.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 11:33:30 AM by ralphmalph »

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2018, 03:02:45 PM »
robert angel wrote:
Now this reminds me of a scene from the movie "El Cid" where  The Cid (not Sid Cherise) is laying siege to Valencia controlled by the Moors. In a key scene he yells out to the besieged within the walls: "I do not bring you fire and the sword. I bring you BREAD!!!!!". And the trebuchets are let loose filled with loaves of bread. After the bread lands withing the walls and the populace find the bread lying in the streets, the Moorish Caliph is overthrown by the mob. Great Scene.

All items mentioned by Robert, it would "turn the tide" so to speak and I would include chocolates for the hembras especially. ;)  It is too bad our enlightened politicos do not take a lesson from history and try it. Imagine Trump 'tweeting' such a message similar to El Cid's. And then following through with it. But no!!!! There is no great profit margin in dropping 'bread' instead of bombs.

Yea, be nice to help and probably in doing so, placate the people with food and other non military aid, but the 'powers that be' in other nations, including the USA, sure would love to have some leverage and control over their vast petrol reserves, so guess that's not happening.

I hear the machinery in Venezuela, their means of production for bringing up, refining and exporting oil, is falling, rusting apart, but just how accurate the news is today is anybody's question.

I do know from guys who work in the oil business in the USA, especially just off shore, that when we hit oil, we usually cap it to save for later.

It's just a lot more practical to dance with other nation's leaders and get most of theirs--- the world's oil overseas, while they're still plentiful and it's cheaper for us than it is in most nations.

Guess we're waiting Maduro's tenure out, sort of smoking out a fox, albeit by squeezing the Venezuelan populace to make them apply exit pressure....

Then again, you don't see proportionate USA, or international in general aid--- humanitarian assistance for nations like Venezuela, although in the past, China and the Russians have done more. 

I can't see Cuba being of major help in Venezuela. I wonder what China's doing, because they've got their hands all over S. America, with major infrastructure projects. The moneys, if not majority ownership of such projects are tightly controlled by the Chinese and will remain so long after the projects are complete. I don't think S. American nations, or some Asian nations like the Philippines, know what they re doing dealing with, thinking  that by getting some aid 'gratis' from the Chinese, that there's not serious debt and long lasting control-- 'strings' attached. A deal with the devil, perhaps...

Meanwhile, we're saving our own oil for when it's really much more valuable. I bet it's cheaper, even with oil sands and fracking USA and Canadian oil, to import crude oil instead of bringing up, refining and storing our own domestically. Certainly cheaper and more advantageous long term.

Oddly, the news I hear is that Maduro has been rejecting humanitarian aid from the IMF, as he feels they're too close to the USA, but again, who the hell knows?

Hard to imagine, given description of hardships.

I am thinking whoever might succeed when Maduro is 'exited' may be about the same or worse. Although Venezuela is relatively sophisticated, they still, like S. America in general, tend to put 'strong man' dictator types in charge during such times. S. American mindset?

Hell, in the USA, we tend to elect politicians with the big hair, with capped, veneered teeth, guys who look like game show hosts and have millions in campaign donations (from donors they're later obligated to) to spend on  advertising. And almost always, the politician who spends, who advertises the most, wins. Sad. Are we any better than S. America in that regard?

Have you thought seriously of visiting there?

The below link on Venezuela and the IMF appears dated, as last time I heard, the inflation date was an astounding 40,000%+originally

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_and_the_International_Monetary_Fund

Reminds me almost of post WWI Germany. Inflation got so bad then that it actually became more economical to burn paper money to heat, to provide fire for stoves and cook, than it was to bundle up money into wheel barrows and use it to buy actual firewood or a loaf of bread.
 
I have some half billion mark paper money around the house somewhere. Be nice if they still honored that currency!I

I have an odd hobby. I collect money from nations that have experienced regime change and have discontinued a given currency.

I'm the 1970s, the Khemer Rouge, in what is now Cambodia, banned the production, the mere thought of 'money'-- but the communist Chinese briefly minted-- produced a Khmer Rouge paper currency for them anyway and I have some.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

Small wonder that the desperate post WWI German population looked for a charismatic, messiah like appearing, nationalistic leader, who eventually led them into WWII.

So much has changed, yet history continues to repeat itself.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 04:25:51 PM by robert angel »
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Offline robert angel

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Offline buenopues4

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2018, 09:18:18 AM »
Visited a friend in a village a couple of hours away from Cali. He said there are venezolanas working the bars there now who reportedly will turn a trick for five thousand pesos. Probably just some local exaggeration. My friend can't confirm as he has a girlfriend and doesn't patronize hookers anymore.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2018, 06:06:33 AM »
Wondering why gasoline prices hadn't gone down in the fall as they usually do, I tried to find out why.

I was very surprised to see that we've not only been continuing to get oil from Venezuela, but in terms of our largest suppliers, they're basically tied with Mexico as our second or third largest supplier.

Venezuela's oil infrastructure, like the nation in general, is falling apart and they need us more than ever to refine their crude oil.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=Z8HJW4baB4G6gge0lYDoAQ&ins=false&q=us+oil+imports+by+country+2017&oq=us+largest+oil+importing+countries&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0i71l5.0.0..26122...0.0..0.0.0.......0.HPUV-H8v1Hc

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-The-US-Wont-Sanction-Venezuelas-Oil.html

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

It was also interesting to see that we're using a whole lot less Saudi oil than we used to, and that Canada in first place by a mile, sends us more than four times as much oil than Saudi Arabia does.

While it's a bummer we're paying more at the pump lately for dubious reasons, we shouldn't forget that we pay a lot less for gas than most other nations.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2018, 01:27:09 PM »
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Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2018, 10:12:27 AM »
UC,

You've mentioned that in her work and in general,  that your wife speaks little English. Perhapsthat necessitates you, as the person who's better picked up a second language to use it predominantly? Maybe she's like me, in that she has a difficult time picking up a new language. I couldn't even pick up on pig Latin as a kid on the playground...

I still coach my wife on pronunciation (at home it's probably more off, more relaxed than at her work) and I sometimes go over more important written business correspondence she writes.

My wife, on her own initiative,  has taken formal group classes for written and spoken English and done more one on one with Speech Pathologists, who offer free services through a m local University grad school.

But she still frets about her English capabilities,  as it's essentially English based, although now, LOL, as their ECommerce specialist, she's had to put her company's huge catalog of items into French, for their Quebec opertaions.

I guess where you live, English is less essential than where we do, but do you have mixed feelings about the situation?


Here in San Antonio you can live your whole life in Spanish. She knows enough English to make doctors appointments and have rudimentary conversations, thank goodness. For a while I had to do all that too and it WAS irritating.


The other thing which is irritating is when there are group situations where everyone is speaking English and later she will want to go over the whole thing to be sure that she got everything. Most of the time she has gotten the gist of it and I sure as hell don't want to go over an entire group conversation. If it's something major, yes but the details about who said what, forget it.[size=78%] [/size]

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2018, 10:12:27 AM »

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2018, 01:16:34 PM »
13 years later, I am still occasionally explaining metaphors, ' figures of speech ' and the like, to my wife. Spanish similar challenges abound, no surprise, given how common greetings, counting numbers etc are often done using Spanish in the Philippines.

But in written composition, singular vs plural, past vs present, gender references and more, still require her to go a bit slower. I encourage her to ' say it in her head' as or after she's writing before hitting send. In some parts of the province she came from, the dialect is so similar to Spanish that if you only speak Spanish, you can do things like watch and understand the TV news without difficulty.

But one thing for sure--- and I bet this extends across a lot of languages, cultures, is as we might THINK they're ' Getting it'--- that they're understanding a lot more than they actually are, but they're NOT getting it all.

 Beyond ' reading between the lines' they get better and read and understand 'between the words' -- the words that as used, they don't really ' get'.  They're just getting the gist of what we're saying and we don't always know what's not understood, as they're passing OK.

And as her understanding has gotten pretty good, my wife doesn't ask me much anymore "What does that mean?" and I have to pick up on it myself.

But it was weird at first. Once we were in a park and a lady had a cute toy sized poodle. I saw how much she adored that dog and commented:

" Awww, that must be your baby"-- she replied " Sure is".....

My wife was SHOCKED. Out of earshot ( try explaining 'earshot ' BTW) she told me:

"You just told that woman that her child is a DOG!!"

Good Lord, if I married a Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Colombian or Brazilian woman not Very well versed in English already, I'd go NUTS!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 03:35:44 PM by robert angel »
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2018, 08:32:46 AM »
No surprise that top govt officials close to Maduro have been illegally making billions in US dollars, buying high end properties in places like NYC and Miami, even meeting with US govt officials like VP Pence under the auspices of changing their crisis situation.

Meanwhile, the people starve...

Such a sordid, classic story being told once again.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article221706585.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article190926039.html
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 08:40:37 AM by robert angel »
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Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #90 on: December 25, 2018, 12:32:30 PM »
Year end update. Seems that inflation in Venezuela has taken such a firm hold that even during the season of Natividad and el Ano Nuevo a somber mood has befallen even the eastern states of that country not just the capital and the western states.


My amiga reported that last year the crowd of shoppers had diminished from previous years' activity was still evident. Houses were illuminated and there were people in the streets. This year, no. The city has been dark and very little shoppers and stores are even open for holiday shopping. There is far less available for sale as compared to last year. She blamed it  directly on only one thing: inflation.


And some tiendas are posting their prices in USD dollars where before this year, that currency was never posted and priced.

Offline Wildstubby

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #91 on: December 25, 2018, 03:03:19 PM »
What a sad state of affairs for a once great country! Venezuela was the first SA country I visited when we had a port of call in Caracas about 1984. I remember being on Shore Patrol the last night there going to the local cathouse with 2 buses to round up the 'remaining troops'. One swabbie locked himself in a room with a prepago and vowed never to come out! His concubine decided to talk him out of his insanity and he finally gave himself up. Now Caracas looks like a war zone. What a shame!

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #92 on: December 25, 2018, 09:19:36 PM »
For 2018, as of October figures, depending on your source,  provider figures place Venezuela as either still the 3rd or 4th largest provider of oil imported into the USA.
That's about 11 billion dollars worth from most reports.

Meanwhile, humanitarian aid from the US Govt. has almost exclusively been earmarked for people fleeing Venezuela,  aid workers being sent to neighboring countries feeding and providing Venezuelan refugee's with shelter and medical support outside VNZ's borders.

Maduro must be some kind of nut, because even IF the USA and other international humanitarian agencies want to help people IN his country, he has not been very receptive.

Unless he's running a very tight, effective police/military security state, I can't see how he's keeping a revolution, a coup from occurring.

Makes me think of what precipitated the French revolution hundreds of years ago and in this past century, how military police states in S. America, China, Eastern Europe and for USSR nations kept their regimes going.

It's clearly just a matter of time and how, not whether or not,  Maduro gets overthrown, but like ancient Rome's Julius Caesar,  it'll probably be someone from relatively close or in his closet circle. And that person or persons, will quite likely take control and be very much like him, while promising otherwise.
What a mess indeed.
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Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2018, 01:28:39 PM »
Makes me think of what precipitated the French revolution hundreds of years ago and in this past century, how military police states in S. America, China, Eastern Europe and for USSR nations kept their regimes going.


The US is just as much of a police state as anywhere else in the world. The cops can stop you and seize your property as a civil forfeiture and you will never see it again. They can kill you in cold blood with your hands up and nothing happens. Placate the masses with credit card debt, meth, opioids and food stamps. It's a Banana Republic on steroids.

Offline buenopues4

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2018, 03:21:57 PM »
Russia is or soon will be in complete control of Venezuela's oil industry gold as well.




venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #95 on: December 26, 2018, 03:52:32 PM »
Venezuela has a good friend in Putin. Russia will be probing it up for years to come.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-russia/venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2018, 04:29:46 PM »

The US is just as much of a police state as anywhere else in the world. The cops can stop you and seize your property as a civil forfeiture and you will never see it again. They can kill you in cold blood with your hands up and nothing happens. Placate the masses with credit card debt, meth, opioids and food stamps. It's a Banana Republic on steroids.

I've mentioned here a number of times that the USA has a much larger % of it's population locked away in prisons than ANY other nation on earth does.

Ditto about how my describing how overall, the building and administration of prisons and probation systems are private, for profit enterprises, typically given  'gifted' to retired govt.officials and their families as never ending cash cows.

In Georgia and probably a number of US states, they make you sign away rights outlined in the constitution,  which allow them to continue incarceration and unholy amounts of fines indefinitely.
Then if you can't pay, more accurately WHEN you can't pay, they take away your driver's license, or other licenses,  certifications to work as, to name but a few,  as teacher, plumber,  electrician or building/construction contractor.

The "war on drugs" as I've said, is a joke. Now that the govt realizes the immense profits legalizing marijuana will bring, other drug violations will likely be more frequently selectively prosecuted and sentences will be longer.

It's a wildly uneven system though. We just had a killer released in my city. He was in a ruthless narcotics gang, for which to become a member, you had to go out and kill an innocent white person. People out walking their dogs in typically safe neighborhoods, were being blown away.

After a long shootout with a bunch of police, he was caught in the 1990s and sentenced to 14 life sentences,  plus 125 years. (A couple decades later, the chief of police went to federal prison when the media exposed HIS corruption) But while in prison, among other offenses, they found the gang banger in possession of a large homemade 'shiv" (knife), a cell phone, charger, etc.

He was just released on probation, back into the general population. He 'did' 25 years of again, FOURTEEN LIFE sentences,  plus an additional  125 to serve...


Merry Christmas....
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 04:52:28 PM by robert angel »
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2018, 05:02:38 PM »
Venezuela has a good friend in Putin. Russia will be probing it up for years to come.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-russia/venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX

That's significant, but still rather puny compared to the many billions China is investing in S. and C. American infrastructure projects. Even if the S. and C. American nations could ever somehow pay back the 'loans' that these sometimes mind boggling in scale projects entail, the Chinese and Russian gifts have it set up that they have strings attached, legal details that will make certain that they retain significant control over the completed projects indefinitely.

If it's not enough for the Chinese to furiously work towards controlling the Straits of Mallaca, where 70% of the planet's economic assets must pass through, they want a similar arrangement with a new,  C. American trans oceanic canal that will make the present Panama Canal all but obsolete.
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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2018, 05:02:38 PM »

 

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