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Author Topic: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....  (Read 2779 times)

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Offline robert angel

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Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« on: August 04, 2018, 06:55:13 PM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/Venezuela

Rated most dangerous country in the world two years in a row, inflation running over 40,000 percent a year and apparently maduro survived an assassination attempt involving drones that halted a national broadcast an hour or so ago. Guess he rigged the election pretty effectively, but the attempt sent the military standing alongside him during his speech---really his ongoing 'dog and pony show'--running like rats.

Can't figure out why, but apparently even increasing oil prices are actually bad for the nation's situation. Meanwhile, basic food stuffs, including for babies, other products and medicine, are in critically short supply.

You can't make sh!t like this up.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 10:31:10 AM »
And now, according to the BBC News, maduro's accusing Colombia, more specifically Colombian President Santos, of sending the explosive carrying drones at him, his wife, the military and other govt lackies all standing along side him.

The footage of it, the military parade's precision all falling apart as they scatter, abandoning him, is yet another sign of what's yet to come....
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:37:19 AM by robert angel »
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Offline Calipro

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 11:20:36 AM »
And now, according to the BBC News, maduro's accusing Colombia, more specifically Colombian President Santos, of sending the explosive carrying drones at him, his wife, the military and other govt lackies all standing along side him.

The footage of it, the military parade's precision all falling apart as they scatter, abandoning him, is yet another sign of what's yet to come....


I think Colombia should respond by not letting anymore starving Venezuelans into the country.


It does amaze me that there doesn't seem to be any push back by the average colombian about all the homeless destitute venezuelans on their streets.



The only Colombians willing to fight for their country are the Colombian prostitutes that regularly get in knife fights with the newly arriving Venezuelan prostitutes because they are selling their asses for half price.


In the unlikely event of an armed conflict between Colombian and Venezuela ....the US government would definitely back Colombia....but who would back Venezuela? Russia?  ::)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 11:57:40 AM by Calipro »

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 11:20:36 AM »

Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 02:15:16 PM »
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.

Offline benjio

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 02:57:50 PM »
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.


I've heard this viewpoint as well....that they consider themselves one people. Even before Venezuela's economic breakdown I met so many people from there along the coast of Colombia the two countries might as well have been states of the same nation.

Offline mudd

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 03:40:34 PM »

I've heard this viewpoint as well....that they consider themselves one people. Even before Venezuela's economic breakdown I met so many people from there along the coast of Colombia the two countries might as well have been states of the same nation.


the Colombians that i know that are dealing with people of venezuela entering coombia and taking a few jobs, and hired some. its about 50-50 split.  some want them gone and say " they are taking jobs and driving down wages, other 50 say they are much better workers than Colombians.


either way, venezuela is a mess, and until Maduro is gone, it will keep going down the toilet.

Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 04:20:09 PM »
In Anzoatugui State, increase in street crime and night burglaries but at least the daylight looting has stopped for a while. Of course everyone is suspicious of the Cuban contingent that the federal government has brought in by the hundreds. Who knows what their real purpose is for being in the Venezuelan eastern states.

At least supplies from family relatives that have emigrated early have been sending back necessaries and food by boat and then through customs, the slowest but the cheapest way to supplement family members that have the bad luck of not being able to leave for various reasons.  Eastern state Venezuelans have been looking for work in Brazil and even as far as Peru, especially the metropolitan area of Lima.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 05:13:04 PM »
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.


The first president of Venezuela, albeit for less than a year before his untimely death, Simon Bolivar had a profound impact on the above mentioned countries, as well as upon others in South and Central America. His life, as well as his family's , is an amazing story. As with most people who lead complex lives, he and his legacy is not without controversy, but his impact and influences even extended to and from, Europe and the emerging United States of America.

Incredible figure in history who died far too young. A Militaristic figure who felt the mindset of Venezuela and surrounding areas/nations were best governed accodingly, he was nonetheless antislavery. History tends to indicate he was largely a champion of human rights, even though he came from a family  representing a long line of wealth and aristocracy.

Again, an Incredible figure. A world changer.
.
"Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar Palacios Ponte y Blanco[1] (Spanish: [siˈmon boˈliβar] (About this sound listen);[2] 24 July 1783 – 17 December 1830), generally known as Simón Bolívar and also colloquially as El Libertador,[3] was a Venezuelan military and political leader who played a leading role in the establishment of Venezuela, Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Panama as sovereign states, independent of Spanish rule."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simón_Bolívar
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 05:58:36 PM by robert angel »
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Offline Ricardo1

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 07:05:03 PM »
https://monthlyreview.org/2018/06/01/the-politics-of-food-in-venezuela/




quote:
Conclusion[/color]The situation confronting Venezuela today is far more complex than that portrayed in the dominant narrative, and it demands more thorough analysis. Through the lens of food and a focus on questions of power related to race, class, gender, and geography, new elements emerge that are key to understanding the present conjuncture. These include (1) food as a vehicle for social differentiation over time, most fundamentally in the creation and maintenance of an elite, an elite-aligned middle class, and a class of “others”; (2) the concentration and consolidation of power in the agrifood system, maintained through elite alliances, both within and outside of the state structure, and through both overt and hidden forms of power; (3) increasing homogenization, uniformity, and controllability of the agrifood system, from production and importation to consumption, through highly racialized notions of science and modernity; (4) marketing strategies that forge intimate relationships with the public so that specific industrially processed foods pervade everyday life; (5) dependency on monopolized supply channels and on supermarkets for access to such products; (6) the disappearance of such products, constituting an attack on everyday life, particularly that of the “others,” especially women; (7) the implication of the state in the products’ disappearance, while the role of private capital remains largely hidden; (8) the attempted consolidation of power by the elite through proposals for the restoration of the missing products (and of “order” more generally), in opposition to state programs and policies, with appeals to the working class “others”; (9) a rallying of the middle class in the name of “the people,” against the government and its alliance with the “others,” by coopting social justice imagery while committing racialized acts of violence; and, all the while, (10) a further strengthening of state-capital relations, constituting a further concentration and consolidation of power in the agrifood system.... [/size][/color][/font]
[/color][/size]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 07:07:27 PM by Ricardo1 »

Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 08:27:01 AM »
Good God!!! That monthly review.com article comprised of academic 'filler' reads like the author must have never been in a cola waiting to buy toilet paper.  ::)

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 11:48:59 AM »
Good God!!! That monthly review.com article comprised of academic 'filler' reads like the author must have never been in a cola waiting to buy toilet paper.  ::)

And I thought I'm the guy who writes posts so long that they use reading them as a substitute for fentanyl and opiates to induce sleep.

I couldn't get through the above post myself, lol...
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Offline buenopues4

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 06:31:24 PM »
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.

Offline buenopues4

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 06:35:29 PM »



They don't shave?

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 06:35:29 PM »

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 10:03:44 PM »
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.

A couple years back, we were in Aruba, which sits about a dozen miles off shore of Venezuela---an easy small boat ride away most days. The shop keepers were crystal clear about hating them. Their presence made getting or changing USD$ a chore--forget about ATMs....I didn't want to be seen with US money down where the Venezuelans dock their boats, trying to sell fruits and vegetables.

I don't know why Aruba govt authorities didn't restrict their presence,  as it was/is a different nation. I am not anti anybody really, but when there is a nation with desperate people who have to resort to theft and potentially upend a tourist centered economy, measures need to be taken. Awful situation coming out of Venezuela. I'd be all about dropping tons of food and medicine-- ' necessities ' but from what I've heard, that involves the IMF -- International Money Fund, which the Venezuelan govt. associates with the USA, so they'd rather starve.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 12:29:40 AM by robert angel »
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Offline benjio

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 12:54:24 PM »
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.


I will admit that most of those experiences were along the Coast where I found a lot of people were either from Venezuela originally or had ancestral roots there.

Offline mambocowboy

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2018, 01:01:14 PM »

I will admit that most of those experiences were along the Coast where I found a lot of people were either from Venezuela originally or had ancestral roots there.
Yes even prior to the difficulties in Venezuela,  there was plenty of love for Venezuela on the coast,  with several of my wifes cousins enjoying a better life there; now, not so much. And those same cousins who were bragging about their riches are now begging for help...nevertheless,  there is plenty of empathy for them among my wifes family on the coast...

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 08:31:20 PM »
It seems before our time, Cuba had a degree of sophistication,  was quite cosmopolitan, with tiers of wealth both old and new. Life was pretty good overall, I am told. Today, they have talented medical doctors who make less money than wait staff and taxi drivers. Consumer goods, certain foods, are sometimes hard to find.

I think Venezuela, with socialism versus communism a driving force, is going thru similar woes. People expect utopia and equality, but more often end up with poverty, corruption and dysfunction.

Unfortunately,  when a strong leader, even a despot, grabs leadership in countries like these, (and I think the mindset there gravitates to that kind of "strong" leadership) the impact can last a long time, as they become entrenched, with bad leaders sometimes followed by worse.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2018, 07:56:02 PM »
7.3 magnitude earth quake yesterday in Venezuela. Fortunately not a single person died.
But the media is reporting that it's the most catastrophic event to happen there in centuries.


I guess a nut job president who rigged the election, 40,000% + annual inflation, shortages of basic foods and supplies and again being rated the most dangerous nation on earth---with a lot of crime, including a whole lot of murders, must be 'fake news'?
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Offline ralphmalph

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 08:50:49 PM »
Eastern States there still without power as of today. And the stores and banks have not opened up yet as a result of the currency reset. The earthquake must have caused a one day delay minimum. Cellular towers and much of the telephone landlines are still operating however. It was a shaker and in some places lasted more that a minute.


The biggest obvious fear for those on the coast was a tsunami but none occurred. Did see photos of cracked building facades and broken glass on the street near Lecheria (a suburb of Barcelona) but no major damage. Further east near the offshore epicenter is another matter. 




Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 10:53:08 PM »
Eastern States there still without power as of today. And the stores and banks have not opened up yet as a result of the currency reset. The earthquake must have caused a one day delay minimum. Cellular towers and much of the telephone landlines are still operating however. It was a shaker and in some places lasted more that a minute.


The biggest obvious fear for those on the coast was a tsunami but none occurred. Did see photos of cracked building facades and broken glass on the street near Lecheria (a suburb of Barcelona) but no major damage. Further east near the offshore epicenter is another matter.


Almost sounds like a normal day in that totally dysfunctional country....


'Scary' 7.3 Magnitude Earthquake in Venezuela is Area's 'Largest Historic Event' in Centuries
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Offline mudd

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2018, 10:44:54 AM »
have a a friend who lives in venezuela, she is so worried  because she said the economy is a complete disaster now, worse than before because what Maduro just did with the bolivar.


 everything is closed, people cant buy anything because of the rate and inflation. i still amazed somebody hasnt taken out fatboy.

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2018, 12:57:25 PM »
The earthquake hit Trinidad pretty bad too.

I used to go to this restaurante in POS when I lived there.

www.google.com.co/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/7070544/venezuela-trinidad-earthquake-tsunami-warning-cancelled/amp/

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2018, 09:41:03 PM »
The earthquake hit Trinidad pretty bad too.

I used to go to this restaurante in POS when I lived there.

www.google.com.co/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/7070544/venezuela-trinidad-earthquake-tsunami-warning-cancelled/amp/

When I was a kid, for a couple years, we lived in what were formerly the Dutch West Indies Caribbean region. We experienced some earthquakes  and they were scary. But even then--and now in Trinidad-Tobago, Venezuela and most of South and Central S. America, the buildings were/are built to hold up pretty well to 7+ magnitude earthquakes.

Nobody died in this 7.3 magnitude earth quake in Venezuela or elsewhere.

A 7.3 is TEN times the strength of a 7.2--a 7.4 TEN times the strength of a 7.3, etc.

The 2010 earthquake in Haiti was widely confirmed to be a 7.0---[bfar, far less powerful[/b] than the earthquake discussed here...[/size]

But 230,000 people died from that 2010 Haiti quake and they didn't and still don't have a lot of high rise buildings--it's just that their construction standards are woefully inadequate.

Hurricane preparedness--or the lack thereof, is similar. And the ignorant mindset isn't limited to third world nations.  People in the USA build million dollar 'vacation homes' that between rising sea levels and storms, are washed away every year.

I don't live in the flood plain and don't have to have flood insurance, although if I could climb a high enough tree, I could see the ocean in the distance. We're in what's known as the 'low country'--almost totally flat--a few barrier islands and miles of marshland separating us from the ocean.

If we had a real category 3 hurricane--that's just a wee bit above above a tropical storm or 'Nor Easter'--and that's NOwhere near as bad as a category 4 or 5--it's more akin to a tropical storm, we'd be screwed. It's been about a 100 years since we had one. Some say that's a reason not to worry.

I say it means were overdue and the weather's more unpredictable than ever. Our building codes are a sick joke--especially compared to nearby Florida's.

Especially if it came in during high tide--or worse yet--during high tide and a full or near full moon, my house would likely be washed away by a cat 3.

8 to 20 feet or more of salt ocean water would roll in like a water wall. We don't have basements--some homes are built slightly above ground, most sit on concrete slabs like mine. The homes are like paper cracker boxes, compared to a high tide rolling in, then rolling back out once the hurricaine's eye passes over. If it doesn't double back again, as they sometimes do..

Unlike most neighborhoods near me, I don't have to pay for hurricane/flood insurance, because technically I live in a slightly higher spot, (surrounded by flood zone neighborhoods) not in the designated 'flood zone'--but I pay yearly for optional federal flood insurance, anyways, because if it's "named" storm tropical, hurricane--as long as it's 'named'--that puts water in your house--and it WILL--my Allstate homeowners ain't gonna do squat.

Once your drywall's wet, flooring and contents all soaked w/ salt water and your electrical wiring's shot, you might as well give it up. But the mortgage payments, insurance and tax bills won't stop.

It's just a matter of time before a lot of people lose everything because of human negligence.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 05:34:19 AM by robert angel »
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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2018, 09:41:03 PM »

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2018, 08:24:09 AM »
When I was a kid, for a couple years, we lived in what were formerly the Dutch West Indies Caribbean region. We experienced some earthquakes  and they were scary. But even then--and now in Trinidad-Tobago, Venezuela and most of South and Central S. America, the buildings were/are built to hold up pretty well to 7+ magnitude earthquakes.

Nobody died in this 7.3 magnitude earth quake in Venezuela or elsewhere.

A 7.3 is TEN times the strength of a 7.2--a 7.4 TEN times the strength of a 7.3, etc.

The 2010 earthquake in Haiti was widely confirmed to be a 7.0---[bfar, far less powerful[/b] than the earthquake discussed here...[/size]

But 230,000 people died from that 2010 Haiti quake and they didn't and still don't have a lot of high rise buildings--it's just that their construction standards are woefully inadequate.

Hurricane preparedness--or the lack thereof, is similar. And the ignorant mindset isn't limited to third world nations.  People in the USA build million dollar 'vacation homes' that between rising sea levels and storms, are washed away every year.

I don't live in the flood plain and don't have to have flood insurance, although if I could climb a high enough tree, I could see the ocean in the distance. We're in what's known as the 'low country'--almost totally flat--a few barrier islands and miles of marshland separating us from the ocean.

If we had a real category 3 hurricane--that's just a wee bit above above a tropical storm or 'Nor Easter'--and that's NOwhere near as bad as a category 4 or 5--it's more akin to a tropical storm, we'd be screwed. It's been about a 100 years since we had one. Some say that's a reason not to worry.

I say it means were overdue and the weather's more unpredictable than ever. Our building codes are a sick joke--especially compared to nearby Florida's.

Especially if it came in during high tide--or worse yet--during high tide and a full or near full moon, my house would likely be washed away by a cat 3.

8 to 20 feet or more of salt ocean water would roll in like a water wall. We don't have basements--some homes are built slightly above ground, most sit on concrete slabs like mine. The homes are like paper cracker boxes, compared to a high tide rolling in, then rolling back out once the hurricaine's eye passes over. If it doesn't double back again, as they sometimes do..

Unlike most neighborhoods near me, I don't have to pay for hurricane/flood insurance, because technically I live in a slightly higher spot, (surrounded by flood zone neighborhoods) not in the designated 'flood zone'--but I pay yearly for optional federal flood insurance, anyways, because if it's "named" storm tropical, hurricane--as long as it's 'named'--that puts water in your house--and it WILL--my Allstate homeowners ain't gonna do squat.

Once your drywall's wet, flooring and contents all soaked w/ salt water and your electrical wiring's shot, you might as well give it up. But the mortgage payments, insurance and tax bills won't stop.

It's just a matter of time before a lot of people lose everything because of human negligence.

Same with the Armenia earthquake in the 80s.It was only in the 6 point someone rangebut wiped out half the city.

You have to take into account the depth of the quake as well.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2018, 02:49:02 PM »
Venezuela's tale is beginning to look like what we sometimes see on the national news re 3rd world, lawless nations.

What's different is that their dictator largely refuses even outside food and medical aid, especially from the likes of the IMF.
I can't imagine the military standing beside him much longer before the populace riots enmasse and tosses him out.
Then again, in places like that, the successor is rarely any better.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-army-venezuela-border-migrant-crisis-economic-collapse-crime-murder-rate-a8512981.html
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