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Author Topic: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks  (Read 2615 times)

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Offline Calipro

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »
I am not endorsing UC's rather dark vision of Colombia but: while Colombia has come a long way in the last 20/25 years it is still a long way from Disneyland.

The 2017 national homicide rate in Colombia: 24 per 100,000
The 2016 national homicide rate for USA: 5.3 per 100,000

And the USA's murder rate is high compared to western Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Still way below Colombia.

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/2017-homicide-round-up/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States


Stats are misleading.
Some of the hottest areas in Colombia are in rural areas where no gringo is likely to set foot.


I like this interactive map. Just click on the barrio and it tells you how many people were killed in that area over the year. But still misleading.


https://colombiareports.com/medellin-violence-statistics/


El centro is red and the has the highest number of murders but it is much more densely populated than other barrios that have a much lower number of murders. It's anyone's guess what the per capita murder rate is for any of these barrios.


I have been to El Centro many times and it doesn't seem anymore dangerous than the downtown area of any other large city I have been in. Not that anecdotal experiences are any better at predicting likely outcomes than misleading stats. jajaja

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2018, 12:22:55 PM »

Stats are misleading.
Some of the hottest areas in Colombia are in rural areas where no gringo is likely to set foot.


I like this interactive map. Just click on the barrio and it tells you how many people were killed in that area over the year. But still misleading.


https://colombiareports.com/medellin-violence-statistics/

El centro is red and the has the highest number of murders but it is much more densely populated than other barrios that have a much lower number of murders. It's anyone's guess what the per capita murder rate is for any of these barrios.

I have been to El Centro many times and it doesn't seem anymore dangerous than the downtown area of any other large city I have been in. Not that anecdotal experiences are any better at predicting likely outcomes than misleading stats. jajaja

The stats I posted aren't misleading...they controlled for population size.

I agree that homicides in Colombia are not distributed evenly in terms of geography....they are HIGHLY concentrated as they are in the U.S.

There is a map in this link which shows how concentrated the homicides are in Cali....the vast majority of homicides occur in a few "bad" areas.

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/brief/mapping-colombia-homicide-data-reflects-regional-dynamics/

This article in the Economist has a great graphic showing the concentration of homicides in Bogota, Medellin and Cali. Mostly limited to certain "bad/tough" neighborhoods.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/04/11/latin-americas-homicide-epidemic

So the average tourist will be fine as long as they do their research, stay in the good areas and don't do stupid things.

That said, this quote from the article is worth pondering, “Colombia is not approaching heaven,” says María Victoria Llorente of the Ideas for Peace Foundation. “We’re barely leaving hell, and if we aren’t careful, we’ll stay in limbo.”




Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »
In the case of Canadá vs the US it is just because there are so many super rich in the US. Get rid of them and it is about the same.

I don't see these super rich in the US running for the Canadian border. Though the Canadian Gini Coefficient has actually creeped up in recent years narrowing the gap with the U.S. a bit.

That said, if you want to achieve the "American Dream" you got a better shot at it in Canada.

http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/american-dream-canada-easier/

Or as the late George Carlin said, "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."


On the other hand, Venezuela has a GINI of 0 because everyone is equal and has noting

Chavez was an idiot though he was a very "good" demagogue. But you are painting too stark of a choice. If the only choice/model in the world is Venezuela....I might just jump off a cliff. Dutch disease plus a populist fool for president = very bad results.

The southern cone in South America has several better examples of how to organize a society/economy. Both Chile and Uruguay are examples.   
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 01:01:38 PM by Hector_Lavoe »

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2018, 12:39:45 PM »

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2018, 01:20:17 PM »
I don't see these super rich in the US running for the Canadian border. Though the Canadian Gini Coefficient has actually creeped up in recent years narrowing the gap with the U.S. a bit.

That said, if you want to achieve the "American Dream" you got a better shot at it in Canada.

http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/american-dream-canada-easier/

Or as the late George Carlin said, "They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."


Chavez was an idiot though he was a very "good" demagogue. But you are painting too stark of a choice. If the only choice/model in the world is Venezuela....I might just jump off a cliff. Dutch disease plus a populist fool for president = very bad results.

The southern cone in South America has several better examples of how to organize a society/economy. Both Chile and Uruguay are examples.

Ja ja..the only "American Dream " you will have in Canadá is working por tve Public Service.

Dont r
Believe all those internet articles

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2018, 01:28:17 PM »
In Chile thats Cuz Pinochet nipped that socialist crap in the bud

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2018, 04:29:09 PM »
In Chile thats Cuz Pinochet nipped that socialist crap in the bud

I am weary of any "-isms" or far left or right ideologues of any stripe.

The examples I provided [Chile (center right) and Uruguay (center left)] were meant to show what a little pragmatic centrism can do. I know that is out of step with the current zeitgeist...but results are results. 

"Mujica says his government opted for a middle ground, favoring private sector projects to spur economic growth and modest interventions to distribute wealth."

http://fortune.com/2015/01/23/uruguay-jose-mujica-economy-capitalism/   

Offline buenopues4

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2018, 06:00:40 PM »
Far from being an "idiot" Chavez was a very astute manipulator of the Venezuela populace. His hand picked successor, the former bus driver Nicolas Maduro is no idiot either. Also through manipulation he has managed to hold on to power despite reported disastrous economic conditions there.


That aside Colombia may well have a high index of income inequity but so far as I have seen in my time here there has never been a protest in Cali targeting that issue as such.

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2018, 06:04:07 PM »

Ja ja..the only "American Dream " you will have in Canadá is working por tve Public Service.

Dont
Believe all those internet articles


Who am I supposed to believe: a cranky Canuck who has challenges using the quote feature on P.L. properly? or one of the most preeminent scholars/economists on the subject of economic mobility in the U.S.?  Hint: It isn't you...jajaja.   

If you want to challenge Dr. Raj Chetty's methodology by all means go ahead....   

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-american-dream-of-social-mobility-2017-3
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:26:24 PM by Hector_Lavoe »

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2018, 08:25:49 PM »
Far from being an "idiot" Chavez was a very astute manipulator of the Venezuela populace. His hand picked successor, the former bus driver Nicolas Maduro is no idiot either. Also through manipulation he has managed to hold on to power despite reported disastrous economic conditions there.

Buencamino/Buenpais: I agree with you regarding Chavez: a brilliant demagogue/manipulator.


That aside Colombia may well have a high index of income inequity but so far as I have seen in my time here there has never been a protest in Cali targeting that issue as such.


I don't have the boots on the ground that you or others have in Colombia. But it could be one doesn't see active political protests on this issue since income inequality has decreased in Colombia over the past 15 or so years.


Below is a link to an IMF study (from 2014) summarizing the decrease (Page 9 of the PDF):

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2014/wp14124.pdf

« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:29:16 PM by Hector_Lavoe »

Offline buenopues4

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2018, 09:01:03 AM »
This week one of the politicians proposed adjusting the salario minimo (which supposedly 80% of Colombians earn) according to region, the idea being that it doesn't go very far in a prosperous place like Bogotá but is halfway decent money in some outlying regions. Something else to keep in mind is that in Cali the value of remesas, money sent by family members from the US (mostly) and Europe is only a bit under the total value of exports from all of Valle Del Cauca. And another thing. Almost everybody, if they have the time does something else in addition to their paid employment like selling clothes to friends and aquiantenses or selling tamales on from their home on weekends etc. I had a mayordomo who while working for the former owners of the finca filled it with raspberry plants and sold the fruit in town. I think he got a nice second income from that. I don't know where you'd find the statistic but it would be interesting to see how much caleños earn over and above their minimum salaries from side jobs and remesas. It's no doubt because of those remesas that there are about eight different money exchange businesses in the Chipichape shopping mall.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 09:05:34 AM by buenopues4 »

Offline mambocowboy

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2018, 10:44:56 AM »
Statistics, scmatistics. Just bang the hottest babes you can when you go to Colombia.

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2018, 01:13:47 PM »
This week one of the politicians proposed adjusting the salario minimo (which supposedly 80% of Colombians earn) according to region, the idea being that it doesn't go very far in a prosperous place like Bogotá but is halfway decent money in some outlying regions. Something else to keep in mind is that in Cali the value of remesas, money sent by family members from the US (mostly) and Europe is only a bit under the total value of exports from all of Valle Del Cauca. And another thing. Almost everybody, if they have the time does something else in addition to their paid employment like selling clothes to friends and aquiantenses or selling tamales on from their home on weekends etc. I had a mayordomo who while working for the former owners of the finca filled it with raspberry plants and sold the fruit in town. I think he got a nice second income from that. I don't know where you'd find the statistic but it would be interesting to see how much caleños earn over and above their minimum salaries from side jobs and remesas. It's no doubt because of those remesas that there are about eight different money exchange businesses in the Chipichape shopping mall.


This doesn't answer your question directly but in the spirt if getting back into talking about the chicas here is something that happened to me in Cali:

-I met this really cute 21 year old Calena working at one of the open-air bars in Palmetto Plaza. I got her number but then she proceeded to tell me she works two jobs: one as bartender and another at a motorcycle shop.

She said she couldn't afford to go on a date with me but as long as I paid her adquately she would go out with me. She gave an actual figure but I don't recall...it was basically equivalent to what she makes in a day at work. I politely declined. She was really cute though. 

One thing I noticed is she kept looking at herself in the mrrior to check her hair, make up, etc.

Offline robert angel

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2018, 02:07:18 PM »

This doesn't answer your question directly but in the spirt if getting back into talking about the chicas here is something that happened to me in Cali:

-I met this really cute 21 year old Calena working at one of the open-air bars in Palmetto Plaza. I got her number but then she proceeded to tell me she works two jobs: one as bartender and another at a motorcycle shop.

She said she couldn't afford to go on a date with me but as long as I paid her adquately she would go out with me. She gave an actual figure but I don't recall...it was basically equivalent to what she makes in a day at work. I politely declined. She was really cute though. 

One thing I noticed is she kept looking at herself in the mrrior to check her hair, make up, etc.


Kaching!!! $$$----If she can't get enough available date action between bartending and working in a motoshop,  something's wayyy off. Then her frequently looking, checking her appearance, sounds like she was appraising her 'fair market' physical value.
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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2018, 02:07:18 PM »

Offline buenopues4

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2018, 02:55:24 PM »
What a cheapskate! You should have given her the money and gone out and had a nice time. Don't you that when a gringo walks up certain synapses in a caleña's brain are activated and she thinks "billete". It's perfectly natural and you should work with it and not against it. You can draw the line though when larger sums are asked for sick family members, funerals, tuition and such like.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 05:47:58 PM by buenopues4 »

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2018, 03:22:35 PM »
What a cheapskate! You should have given her the money and gone out and had a nice time. Don't you that when a gringo walks up certain synapses in a caleña's brain are activated and she thinks "billete". It's perfectly natural and you should work with it and not against it. You can draw the line though when larger sums are asked for sick family members, funerals, tuition and such like.

LOL...well maybe I should have gone for it!  I met several other ladies that I took out on dates and they didn't ask for a dime. Of course, I paid for the dates.

I get that gringos are viewed as ATM's but the Calena bartender was a little too in your face about it.  When I first walked up to the bar, she asked me to buy her and her coworker a drink. I did do that. But paying for a date..??  I have a hard time with that especially if there are other ladies willing to go out "for free".....
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 03:26:29 PM by Hector_Lavoe »

Offline Chris F

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2018, 04:48:55 PM »
LOL...well maybe I should have gone for it!  I met several other ladies that I took out on dates and they didn't ask for a dime. Of course, I paid for the dates.

I get that gringos are viewed as ATM's but the Calena bartender was a little too in your face about it.  When I first walked up to the bar, she asked me to buy her and her coworker a drink. I did do that. But paying for a date..??  I have a hard time with that especially if there are other ladies willing to go out "for free".....




Were these the interasadas you mentioned in an earlier post?   Curious, if you could share in detail the interaction you had with any other ones?

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2018, 06:06:36 PM »
I am weary of any "-isms" or far left or right ideologues of any stripe.

ActualyI wasnt making a political staement of any Type. Just stating that the Venezuelan problem in Colombia is a very sad and disturbing situation from a humanitarian point of view.

Just think how bad it is inside Venezuela.



Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2018, 06:14:00 PM »
Who am I supposed to believe: a cranky Canuck who has challenges using the quote feature on P.L. properly? or one of the most preeminent scholars/economists on the subject of economic mobility in the U.S.?  Hint: It isn't you...jajaja.   

If you want to challenge Dr. Raj Chetty's methodology by all means go ahead....   

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-american-dream-of-social-mobility-2017-3

I dont have to listen to an academic. I have worked in both countries.If you are willing to.move to where the work is, the US has way better oportunities for young people. Regardless of whether the democrats  or republicans are in power.

The healthcare system.in Canadá is far superior, I will Grant you that.

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2018, 06:18:54 PM »

This doesn't answer your question directly but in the spirt if getting back into talking about the chicas here is something that happened to me in Cali:

-I met this really cute 21 year old Calena working at one of the open-air bars in Palmetto Plaza. I got her number but then she proceeded to tell me she works two jobs: one as bartender and another at a motorcycle shop.

She said she couldn't afford to go on a date with me but as long as I paid her adquately she would go out with me. She gave an actual figure but I don't recall...it was basically equivalent to what she makes in a day at work. I politely declined. She was really cute though. 

One thing I noticed is she kept looking at herself in the mrrior to check her hair, make up, etc.

Sounds like a narcisista

I agree with mamá.and Buen Pues. just bang her.

How much was she asking? Like 50 mil?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:22:44 PM by Elexpatriado »

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2018, 06:21:57 PM »
^^As I said I don't recall the exact amount but it wasn't a lot. Basically whatever she makes in a shift which I assume ain't much.

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2018, 06:24:36 PM »

Were these the interasadas you mentioned in an earlier post?   Curious, if you could share in detail the interaction you had with any other ones?

Yes, the bartender was one of the interasadas. The only other interasada I met was this 20 year old chica I met at Chipichape my first night in Cali. We were sitting down on a bench next to each other so I chatted her up. She is a Calena who is currently living/studying at a university in Barcelona. She was home visiting family. She had more of a paisa look but was very phuck-able in my book. 

We exchanged numbers. She invited me to go out the next night with her and her friends. She was pretty cute but I figured even if she wasn't into me I could meet her friends or perhaps other women at the bar. We met at a bar close to my hotel in Granada. Turns out her "friends" was really just one amiga. Her friend was nice but I was not into her physically/romantically.

We had drinks at a shot bar (called Quickly) and I paid for all the drinks. Initially the girl showed interest in me..be it genuine or fake I can't say. After a while she seemed less attentive and pretty focused on her friend. So when she'd go to the restroom I looked around the bar to see if I could meet someone else. Place was all groups and I couldn't pull anyone away. So about 2 or so hours into it, I told the two chicas it was late and I was going to leave (this was 2am or so). They walked with me outside to be sure I got an uber and then went back into the bar for more drinking I guess.

The next day I texted the girl to see if she wanted to go out for dinner. She never replied. I followed up the day after that with something like, "Hey no worries if you don't want to go on a date, we can just be friends."  She never even replied to that. So I assume she was just using me for free drinks that night. The drinks were cheap as hell but my TIME: I'll never get that back!   
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:27:42 PM by Hector_Lavoe »

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2018, 06:28:56 PM »
Actually its pretty rare for a girl.to así for that.

I Sounds like her time was all tied up working so.many hours and she really needs the money.

Looking at herself in the Mirror NOT a good sign ( sign on Narcisism)
..yThats why I suggested just banging her and bit taking her seiously.

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2018, 06:34:16 PM »
Yes, the bartender was one of the interasadas. The only other interasada I met was this 20 year old chica I met at Chipichape my first night in Cali. We were sitting down on a bench next to each other so I chatted her up. She is a Calena who is currently living/studying at a university in Barcelona. She was home visiting family. She had more of a paisa look but was very phuck-able in my book. 

We exchanged numbers. She invited me to go out the next night with her and her friends. She was pretty cute but I figured even if she wasn't into me I could meet her friends or perhaps other women at the bar. We met at a bar close to my hotel in Granada. Turns out her "friends" was really just one amiga. Her friend was nice but I was not into her physically/romantically.

We had drinks at a shot bar (called Quickly) and I paid for all the drinks. Initially the girl showed interest in me..be it genuine or fake I can't say. After a while she seemed less attentive and pretty focused on her friend. So when she'd go to the restroom I looked around the bar to see if I could meet someone else. Place was all groups and I couldn't pull anyone away. So about 2 or so hours into it, I told the two chicas it was late and I was going to leave (this was 2am or so). They walked with me outside to be sure I got an uber and then went back into the bar for more drinking I guess.

The next day I texted the girl to see if she wanted to go out for dinner. She never replied. I followed up the day after that with something like, "Hey no worries if you don't want to go on a date, we can just be friends."  She never even replied to that. So I assume she was just using me for free drinks that night. The drinks were cheap as hell but my TIME: I'll never get that back!



Probably  just no chemistry.
If shes was a real gold diggers she would say " puedas hacer me un favor.."

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2018, 06:34:16 PM »

Offline mudd

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2018, 11:40:25 AM »

This doesn't answer your question directly but in the spirt if getting back into talking about the chicas here is something that happened to me in Cali:

-I met this really cute 21 year old Calena working at one of the open-air bars in Palmetto Plaza. I got her number but then she proceeded to tell me she works two jobs: one as bartender and another at a motorcycle shop.

She said she couldn't afford to go on a date with me but as long as I paid her adquately she would go out with me. She gave an actual figure but I don't recall...it was basically equivalent to what she makes in a day at work. I politely declined. She was really cute though. 

One thing I noticed is she kept looking at herself in the mrrior to check her hair, make up, etc.


if you have to pay a colombian to go out with you, its all about " business" . had a friend visit me last year in medellin, he got the same proposal, three different times, i started laughing .

Offline robert angel

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Re: Back From Cali...Where the Nightlife (Mostly) Sucks
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2018, 07:30:31 AM »
Economists use something called the "GINI Coefficient or Index" to measure income inequality in a country. A score of 1 = absolute inequality while a score of 0 = absolute equality.

Latin America remains one of the most unequal in the world and Colombia historically has been one of the most unequal countries in Latin America. 

The Gini Coefficient in 2016:
-Colombia: 0.501
-USA:  0.415

The measure for countries like Denmark, Sweden, Canada, etc. range from about 0.25 to 0.32.

If you are middle class from the U.S., Europe, Canada or Australia, etc. then Colombia is a great place to take your disposable income.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINICOL

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINIUSA?utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=categories

http://www.oecd.org/social/income-distribution-database.htm


Jeff Bezos, Amazon's head, just topped his present fortune at 150 billion, almost matching the Waltons of Walmart. People say the 'middle class'--sort of a nebulous term, concept, is shrinking in the USA.

"A Federal Reserve report found the top 1 percent of U.S. families controlled 38.6 percent of wealth in the U.S. in 2016, compared with 22.8 percent held by the bottom 90 percent. Last year, Oxfam International found that more than 80 percent of earnings went to the top 1 percent of the world population." (Bloomberg)

I guess that means that according to the US govt anyway, that 10% of the US population has 77.2% of the USA's wealth and that the other 90% of everyone, making up the poor and middle class, has about 22.8% to share.

The Trump "tax reform " gave some nice breaks to the very rich, as well as to the 'rest of us' . But while the tax laws giving the very rich substantial breaks, benefits have no expiration date, the 'breaks and benefits' that the rest of us' got, expire in four and a half years, then we go back the the old, higher rates. Odd arrangement.

But boy, 1% of the population having close to 40% of the nation's wealth doesn't sound great to me.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 07:17:58 PM by robert angel »
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