Medellin vs Cali - "The Chick Scene"

[CalifSur]

I tried to find a good source for the most recent homicide stats for Medellin and Cali.

The best I could find is the following:

Medellin (2009, full year):  94.5 homicides per 100,000 residents 

(source: Christian Science Monitor)
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/1025/Medellin-once-epicenter-of-Colombia-s-drug-war-fights-to-keep-the-peace

Cali (2011, Jan - March): 71 homicides per 100,000 residents
(source: El Pais, in Spanish)
http://www.elpais.com.co/elpais/judicial/conozca-20-barrios-violentos-cali

For comparsison, in 2009 the city in the U.S. with highest homicide rate was New Orleans: 52 homicides per 100,000 residents.

As recently as 2007, Medellin reported ONLY 33.8 homicides per 100,000 residents.  So the recent spike in violence there is pretty severe but still WAY BELOW the early 1990's when the homicide rate in Medellin was 381 homicides per 100,000 residents.

[AndyLee]

The increased crime rate in Medellin has to do with the breakup and realignment of the drug gangs as they feud over territory and routes. It has very little to do with the ordinary citizens. In the areas of these cities where "most" of us are likely to travel the increase in the crime rate IMHO should not be a factor in choosing between Medellin or Cali.

[utopiacowboy]

The increased crime rate in Medellin has to do with the breakup and realignment of the drug gangs as they feud over territory and routes. It has very little to do with the ordinary citizens. In the areas of these cities where "most" of us are likely to travel the increase in the crime rate IMHO should not be a factor in choosing between Medellin or Cali.

True now and true back then. The period of tranquility occurred when Don Berna and the AUC captured the warring hillside barrios and enforced the peace. Then the government in its wisdom arrested and extradited Don Berna - leaving a power vacuum.

[Micky]

AL + UC -

Correct,  that was,  I believe,  2 years ago now.  Both the guy that you mention UC AND his counterpart were bagged.  The Envigado and Itagui groups had a ton of whackings going almost the entire year.  The dust settled from that and things are back to "normal",  more or less,  here.  I have been here since 10-07,  walk amost everywhere,  have never had any problems at all,  sure,  that could change tomorrow.  I am not overly concerned with it.

Micky

[CalifSur]

AL + UC -

Correct,  that was,  I believe,  2 years ago now.  Both the guy that you mention UC AND his counterpart were bagged.  The Envigado and Itagui groups had a ton of whackings going almost the entire year.  The dust settled from that and things are back to "normal",  more or less,  here.  I have been here since 10-07,  walk amost everywhere,  have never had any problems at all,  sure,  that could change tomorrow.  I am not overly concerned with it.

Micky

Fair enough Micky.  I wasn't try to paint a grim picture of your adotped hometown.  Your feet on the ground picture DOES help paint an accurate picture for those (like myself) that hope to visit Medellin one day.  I grew up in and around Los Angeles so I understand that it is quite possible to feel safe/secure in an area that gets a rep for gangs/crime. 

[Micky]

CalifSurf -

I wrote just to clarify.  I took no offense at all from your posting those stats.
If you do make it here give me a call.  I was born in Pasadena,  CA..

Micky

[CalifSur]

CalifSur -

I wrote just to clarify.  I took no offense at all from your posting those stats.
If you do make it here give me a call.  I was born in Pasadena,  CA..

Micky

Pasadena is one of my favorities cities in Calif. I lived there myself for a few years in the 1990's.

[Traveler]

I just saw this thread tonight.  Well, based on my observations and tastes, women from Cali on average have better figures, and women from Medellin have prettier complexions.  But both places have a lot of beautiful women.  I was in Cali just once, and women did seem to be even friendlier than in Medellin, and here in Miami girls from Cali are much more approachable than paisas.  Cali, however, is less developed and a lot less clean, it does feel like a Third World city a LOT more than Medellin.  If I were to move to Colombia, I would not want to live there, but just to visit it is as good as Medellin.

[Zon]

After 90 days ...  in 2011, Medellin, outside El Poblado especially, is damn dangerous.  I could go on and on about the things I saw, and the third party stories I heard. It is more difficult now than it has been in the last 5 years.

Being a gringo in Medallo is a NEGATIVE.  The place has been, is being, trampled by tons of guys that are 20 - 50 years past their prime looking for a very hot, very young girls just for fun, or to "fall in love with".  Not just Norte Americanos either.  But gringos make up the biggest number.  Groups of older guys meet everyday at coffee shops to talk about last nights adventures ( "you only paid 30 milliones for a whole night!" while other share pics of their new "novias" - as if it will last for more than 30 days).  These guys come from all walks of life, but mostly are pensioners; retired military, cops, government workers.  So, it is no wonder why they are happy living in Medellin like the nuevo rich in Palm Beach.  These brave fellas hardly venture out of Parque Llares ... so the food comes to them.  the sexiest and poorest girls from the mountains wear their shortest skirts and highest heels to Parque Llares on Friday and Saturday night.  So nobody should be surprised when these guys meet a pretty girl (s) and end up in their hotel room / apartment sleeping for 2 - 3 days - it happens all the time.  Don't think it doesn't.

In the upper classes in Medellin, it is possible to make friends and overcome the negative gringo steriotype.  But it takes time and a good command of Spanish. 

The "super in" crowd (google or facebook The Charlie Lifestyle Hotel /  Envy   Rooftop to see) are pretty much just like Miami, or LA.   There's a group of cool, younger gringos that keep in shape and play this game.  They are accepted, but remember, you are only a couple inches away form the new Pablo Escobar wannabe.  Very few of these guys went to Harvard business school.  There are some interesting underground groups that are edgy / artsy ... but, again, it takes time and Spanish, and MONEY - always gotta have money in Paisa land.

I preferred Envigado and Llareles to El Poblado.  I liked el centro more than the new mega malls.   I thought the pueblos of antioquia were charming and interesting.

Paisas:   There is no shortage of pretty women.   And, everybody is friendly on the surface.  But, I thought honesty was hard to find in Cali!  When a paisa makes a statement, to understand the truth just translate it to the negative, and you will be right 75% of the time.   Punctuality? forget about it.   It seems that half / most of the women over the age of 18 have at least one child, and these woman are use to being treated like dirt by men - the phrase damaged goods comes to mind.  There is a great amount of people on the streets with enormous phiscal defects as a result of inbreeding.  Not everybody in this city comes from a nice, clean stable home!

 (I am generalizing, but these generalizations are true.  there is a small percentage that are educated, well meaning, lovely with good characters ... but, these woman are likely NOT to want to meet a gringo because they will be presumed a prepago in your company.  Not fun)

I dated party girls.  I dated girls from outside Medelin.  I dated some professional women.  As my Spanish improved (and it improved a lot), I was able to "read between the lines" more and more ... there are always plots and sub plots.  Interestingly, I dated a few women who were very attractive and businesslike and used to meeting gringos via agencies, web sites.  In these situations, I felt like I was in a job interview.  Once these women realized that I like South America and the Caribbean; that I was not a one way ticket to the USA, they lost interest almost immediately.  My final month, I spent with a student / musician ... we enjoyed each other and had an honest relationship.   But she was not girlfriend material.

When I first got to Medellin, I would hear from the girls one story, the locals one story, the taxi drivers one story.   But, as I lost my gringo accent and look, I began hearing another much less flattering answer to the question "como te parace las majoria de gringos en Medallo"

So, take the rose colored glasses off.  Medellin is nice second home for some, but it requires much time.  I think 80% of the girls are saying whatever they need to in order to get whatever they are seeking ... and they are all seeking something.  But, what really surprised / disappointed me was the Paisa value system.   If you lined up 50 smart young people and asked them what they thought of a professional athlete, a musician, an inventor, a businessman, and a drug dealer ...most would put all of them in the same class (and many the women may even prefer the narco).  By the way, Paisas think they are better than you!  It does not matter if they are poor, or uneducated, or drug dealers, or whores.  They suffer pene easily "social embarrassment", but this group has little shame.

El Poblado is great for meeting and partying with younger Europeans by the way.  There must be 100 hostels, and there are specific clubs for this group - good times.

The best people I met in Medellin was through the business community; university community, or the language exchanges.  It is better to take your chances and just talk to people in el centro (during the days only ) if you want to meet "normal people".   Or, go to the malls and parks in Bello, rather than El Poblado

=====

Outside El Poblado, I did not see Medellin being much cleaner than Cali. The metro is great. But, it is likely to become overcrowded when the last line is completed.   The city has grave social inequities - and the institutions do not care.   The climate is terrific, but I did not find Cali MUCH hotter ( I live in Florida, and I know HOT).

So, if Medellin is the only place to find Shangrala, we are in trouble.

=====

Oh, by the way, I finally figured out how to make that damn Colombian Cupid site work for me.  First off, being in the city where you are looking for women helps tons ... but, the "good women"  ( and I am just referring to the target range 24 - 33 years of age, attractive )  that get on the site quickly loose interest because they are approached by stampeed of 70  year old, viagra enhanced gringos asking them for a naked photo (it is the truth).    so, I just did a sort of new memeber in the Medellin, and th respons I received within the first 3 days was 100% better than the jaded response you get there after.   But, again, being introduced to a woman by her firend / family is the best way by far.

[utopiacowboy]

I had to laugh about the inbreeding. One of my wife's dead husband's brothers is married to his own aunt (daughter of his grandfather through an extra-marital liaison). Only in Colombia!

[Kiltboy1]

I detest in general people that always tell you they are better then others, other countries, cities, etc and almost every Paisa I ever talked to would tell you almost right from the start that themselves ,there city are the best and every other city in Colombia was second rate. Thus, I avoided Medellin like the Plague
 
KB

[Micky]

You see that?  Everybody is jealous because their not Paisa.  All know that Latin countries are very regionally bias,  and sub-region.  The Paisa just takes that to another level. 

Good write up Zon.  It does not apply to everyone,  but the majority of the P. Gringo - gringos are sad characters that are wannabe "players"  they have not the "game" and/or money to do so in the States or Europe.  They come here with absolutely NO real interest in Colombia.  They will learn Spanish and take dancing lessons,  only to increase their chances of grabbing the brass ring.  Anyone really wonder why I have lived here nearing four years and I do not know ONE gringo?

Micky

[fathertime]

Oh, by the way, I finally figured out how to make that damn Colombian Cupid site work for me.   

Yeah we know how you made it work for you, you shaved off around half a dozen years off your real age.  A fellow poster sent me your 'profile' with your false age on it.   You are free to deny what I said if it isn't true.  Go ahead!  Why is the truth so hard for you?




Fathertime!

[dennislevy]

Micky

que es esa.........basura!

I took you out last night, spent a FORTUNE on you.....and you write this crap that you have lived in Medellin for four years and you don know ONE gringo. Remember i used to live in Medellin!!!!!

Hey, i ve got FEELINGS!!!!!!!!!

jejejejejejejejejejejejejeje

Well, Zon if you re coming back to the board after the pummeling you took...esta bien! Tienes huevos grandes.....Dont try to sell anything.. and I m fine with that.

Your write up is a bit over the top, but on balance its fair.....

I diagree that beign a gringo in Medellin  is a disdvantage......it depends on who you meet and course the women you chase or date.....

ll agree with you about Parque LLeras and your description of some of the gringos....One gringo that I know who is 60 and who is honest about it   says that he wishes he was wired differently...but for him its all visual...face and body...he calls it YWD. Young Woman Disease, his range is 18 to 25.   

I am in Medellin right now and staying close to Parque Lleras on 10th and 35th,  At night ..when its crowded and noisy.....I ll walk down the hill for a bagel and ocffee at B&B or ribs or spaghetti at Il Forno but Im by myself and shake my head im astonishment ..but i dont date young chicas.....

I ll meet women from my dating pool in the heart of Parque lleras for coffee

 But there are three restaurants I like quite a bit just removed form ther heart of Parque lleras

1  Parillas y Paellas...calle 9 and 43 B across from the Sunshine Hostal...quiet atmosphere, romantic and TERIFIC paella!
2.Bistro Gastronomia on the corner of calle 10th and 35th.
3. Un italian pizzeria restaurant on 35th but one block off 10th...

The heart of Parque lleras might be jumping off the hook, but i can walk in any of those three restaurants, always find a table.....and enjoy a date and a quiet  conversation.

One tiny bone to pick...yafter only two months of improved spanish, .NO ONE thinks you re a local....jejejeje...it takes A while, I ve been speaking Spanish daily for almost three years and I can t pass for colombiano..most of the time, people think Im a  European or  Israeli..... even from Argentina or  Brazil,.........but once I open my mouth,  no one thinks I m a local.

havea good day!

[Gato4Astrid]

For DL, Medellin v Cali - Battle of Coffee, who won?

[Researcher]

  What I dislike about Colombia are the gringos that go there to deal in the flesh trade.Either the brothel business or internet webcam girl business.I guess these guys try Cali but find out the biggest opportunities for this kind of business is in Medellin.So they take off to Medellin to further ruin the reputation of gringos by taking advantage of poor young women.

      Researcher

[Micky]

DL -
 
1 - I give you two of the best hours of my ENTIRE life,  still you bitxh.
 
2 - You lived in Med LAST year,  for more/less 7 months,  I say I don't know one gringo here and    YOU bitxh.
 
3 - I think that it is pretty obvious to all you're not happy with our relationship,  no matter how much I  do for you,  I just can't make you happy.
 
4 - If there is a NEXT time,  you will have to take me to Juan Valdez just like all my other gringo putos,  no more "discounts"  for you bubba.  See what you've done?  I hope your happy with yourself now.
 
5 - This is not spam - Any gringos in Medellin that are lonely and need someone to have coffee with call Micky at 555 12 12 - mention Planet Love for a 7% discount off my rack rate.
 
(not affiliated with imagringoputo.com)

Micky 

[dennislevy]

Micky
You ve become Colombianiized.....you always want more and more and more...

Now, you re not happy with coffee atthe  local panaderia........NOOOOOOOOOOOO, you ve got to have Juan Valdez. you still haven t  called me PAPI...and God knows how many other gringos you ve had coffee with!!!!!  And you ve always got excuses  like--------- I ve gotta go home and see the missus and Matteo.

I taking my ass to Cali.....there MUST be better gringos there!!!!

jejejeje!

Have a good day!

Dennis

[Micky]

DL -
 
If you think this relationship is worth saving,  you will take me with you,  Papai.
(be safe)
 
Micky
 

[dennislevy]

Gato

For COFFEE, Medellin and Cali are pretty much  the same.

BUT if there is AREPA availalbe and the girl likes CHORIZO , I ll definite spring for coffee at Juan Valdez.....

[dennislevy]

Micky
Thanks!.....regards to D and M

[benjio]

One tiny bone to pick...yafter only two months of improved spanish, .NO ONE thinks you re a local....jejejeje...it takes A while, I ve been speaking Spanish daily for almost three years and I can t pass for colombiano..most of the time, people think Im a  European or  Israeli..... even from Argentina or  Brazil,.........but once I open my mouth,  no one thinks I m a local.

havea good day!

On the coast it's all about three things.
 
   

• Not pronouncing "S" no matter where it is in the word. "Gastos" are "gatos." "Eres" is "ere." It's confusing at first but if you listen closely you'll realize it's very consistent.
• If a word ends with a consonant and the next word in the statement begins with a vowel (or vice versa) you pronounce them as one word. In this respect, a 10 word sentence in Costeñoville can sound like a very long word. Another thing you get use to after listening and trying to mimic it a lot.
• Rhythm. You have to speak like a rolling snare drum or a machine gun. I can do this with short everyday statements. Like when I'm speaking to a taxi driver: "Usted me puede llevar para el aeropuerto" in Barranquilla is "Ooted mepuede chevar para elaerrropuerrrrto." Airport in spanish is hell to learn how to pronounce correctly by the way...the placement of the first and the second "r" makes it almost impossible for foreigners. With longer statements they can usually catch me. If I tell a story in Spanish anywhere along the coast, I'm usually asked right afterwards, "Where are you from?"

These three rules have always helped me fool some Barranquilleros into believing I was a local. It comes in handy when you're haggling...you don't get "gringo taxed."
 
I've never been to Medellin bet have met more people from there than I can count. Paisa Spanish is easy. It's clear, articulated, precise and they have a lot less slang. The only thing I've noticed them doing is pronouncing "D's" in the middle of a word like "th." "Todo" is "Totho". Paisa girls have a very sexy way of drawing out some words when telling a story or talking to friends about someting funny. It drives me crazy!!! Other than that, to sound like a true Paisa you just have to say "PUES!!!" and "AVA MARIA" a lot! LOL!

[benjio]

You see that?  Everybody is jealous because their not Paisa.  All know that Latin countries are very regionally bias,  and sub-region.  The Paisa just takes that to another level. 

Good write up Zon.  It does not apply to everyone,  but the majority of the P. Gringo - gringos are sad characters that are wannabe "players"  they have not the "game" and/or money to do so in the States or Europe.  They come here with absolutely NO real interest in Colombia.  They will learn Spanish and take dancing lessons,  only to increase their chances of grabbing the brass ring.  Anyone really wonder why I have lived here nearing four years and I do not know ONE gringo?

Micky

The very reasons I'll never even attempt to date a woman from or in Medellin. There's entirely too many good women in Colombia outside that city and you don't have to deal with sorting through the BS. If you have the time, money and patience and are truly seeking wife material I'd recommend one of the smaller cities. Neiva, Cartago, Palmira, anything's better than what foreign men have turned that city into. I'll be there in November but don't see myself venturing pass the street my hotel is on outside of paying Micki a visit.

[Researcher]

Gato

For COFFEE, Medellin and Cali are pretty much  the same.

BUT if there is AREPA availalbe and the girl likes CHORIZO , I ll definite spring for coffee at Juan Valdez.....

    Darn it Dennis, all this sex talk you do makes me blush!!!! hahaha!!

        Researcher

[dennislevy]

Researcher
I was wondering if SOMEONE was going to catch it.

My first six months in Colombia when a woman asked me if I liked arepa.....I replied, no I prefer pan!  I was still new to Colombia......God knows how many second dates, (and more) I missed!

jejejeje