For those going now and in near future: What is best to do if you get held up?

[colcorazon]

Ok say it happens.... you are in colombia and a guy pops out gun pointed at you and your girl.

What is the steps to do to get away from him safely asap?

IM GUESSING the following....add input from anyone with experience in colombia:

1) SLOWLY nod and go for wallet ensuring he sees your hands at all times. slowly hand to thief (same with your ladies purse).

2) Assuming you dont have anything else on you of value, slowly nod and back away if he doesnt back away.

3) Turn around and walk away brisky showing him hes got your stuff and you arent a threat.


I dont know if RUNNING after giving him all your stuff and backing away slowly is better...any ideas?

[whitey]

I'm interested to hear answers on this too from guys who have training (like Woody and Euforia perhaps) and guys that have experience.

A few comments from someone who is completely untrained and inexperienced:

1) It's a very good idea to imagine some of these situations in advance and plan what you are going to do, because in the moment, unless you are trained and experienced, many people will panic and either act stunned, or go into some kind of flight or fight mode.

2) Unless you are very fluent, you will likely completely forget your Spanish if something goes dangerously south fast - don't count on being able to talk your way out of something or have a reasonable conversation.

3) Hand over your stuff as quickly and in as non-threatening a mode as possible.

Some guys are pretty macho and will take issue on point three, but my stuff is not worth my life.  Sure I'll be pissed off, inconvenienced, and humiliated ... but I'll be alive to support my wife and daughter.  You can't outrun a bullet.

[Jeff S]

I've heard that here, in the US, the most successful thing is not to comply and do everything the robber says, but rather to pull out what they want, your wallet, watch and or money clip, make sure they see it, then throw them one way and run the other. Several items is better than one. They'll go for the goods instead of you. Too many people have been executed after meekly handing your valuables over and waiting for further instructions.

[whitey]

I've heard that here, in the US, the most successful thing is not to comply and do everything the robber says, but rather to pull out what they want, your wallet, watch and or money clip, make sure they see it, then throw them one way and run the other. Several items is better than one. They'll go for the goods instead of you. Too many people have been executed after meekly handing your valuables over and waiting for further instructions.

Seems to make some sense ... although maybe backing away slowly may be better than turning your back and running?  I don't know.

I worry less about myself ... more than half the time I'll be with Nazly, so running is not an option.

[mudd]

1st,   if your worried about it, then don't go to  Colombia!!!! , pick another destination, Peru, Ecuador,  Panama, Cuba, Chile, Argentina etc  where crime is less of a problem.

2nd, keep a bogus wallet with something in it, $ 50 usd around, and some outdated or expired credit cards that most crooks wont notice that they are no good until your already gone.

3rd, give him want he wants, and then go the opposite direction, towards any other people where you are more public.

4th and most important, don't get into the mess in the first place. no $$$ or purse is worth a bullet in the chest, or the back, if you piss the guy off and you think you can outrun a bullet.

[whitey]

1st,   if your worried about it, then don't go to  Colombia!!!! , pick another destination, Peru, Ecuador,  Panama, Cuba, Chile, Argentina etc  where crime is less of a problem.

2nd, keep a bogus wallet with something in it, $ 50 usd around, and some outdated or expired credit cards that most crooks wont notice that they are no good until your already gone.

3rd, give him want he wants, and then go the opposite direction, towards any other people where you are more public.

4th and most important, don't get into the mess in the first place. no $$$ or purse is worth a bullet in the chest, or the back, if you piss the guy off and you think you can outrun a bullet.

Good advice Mudd, although I can't agree completely with your first point.

I think it's prudent for an intelligent traveller to prepare, in advance, for potentially dangerous situations.  I guess if you're worried MORE than sensible precautions, then there's no point in traveling ...

[colcorazon]

yea it seems simple but id rather have a kinda idea of what id do.

I mean do the criminals down there just want tthe loot and if you give it they just leave.

Or are they mean spirited and like to hurt people regardless?

I think criminals in the USA are actually going into KILL mode. regardless of what ya do they wan tto kill you because they dont get punished really and theres a chance kiling you there wont be anyone to give testimony.

Worst case the criminal here canm take a year to a few years to get put in jail...then theres appeals and if they get put on death row may never be executed etc.

So what deterent is there nowadays to not kill for criminals?

But in colombia, altho life is cheap they say.... they seem to want the loot and that is it if you give it up they seem to leave or let you go.

but is tat true?

[fathertime]

My feeling on the matter is, get your wallet out and let him see there is money in it and give it to him and start walking away FAST…I can live with losing the wallet, but I’m not going to follow further instructions that put me in a compromising position where myself or my wife can be isolated.  If the thief sees he made a good score (cash in the wallet), I would have to hope he would let us walk rather than put holes in us. 

Fathertime!

[Gato4Astrid]

When comes to KNIFE, you need Karate training.   I used to train karate for 3 years in 1990s before going to University.  I have learnt lots from karate, but now I believe I have forgotten!!

[euforia51]

I'm interested to hear answers on this too from guys who have training (like Woody and Euforia perhaps) and guys that have experience.

Yeah ... I was wondering what I was going to say about this myself.   There is some good advice from other posters, already. I've had some disarm training and practice. But you need to remember, first and foremost, giving the thugs what they want is the best way out. And you should only attempt to disarm as a very last resort; and you'd better be lightening quick and be very practiced. Any good instructor worth his salt will tell you this. Do a search on YouTube if you're curious on what you could do. There are tons of videos. And perhaps the real danger for the novice and inexperienced is these guys make it look easy.

Otherwise, like mudd says, if you're that worried about it, don't go. Simple.

You can run through scenarios all day long but it's almost guaranteed an actual situation will be very different from what you expected and will happen when you least expect it. Then what will you do? Whitey says your Spanish (and possible negotiating skills) will be forgotten in a hurry. Who could disagree?

I think criminals in the USA are actually going into KILL mode. regardless of what ya do they wan tto kill you because they dont get punished really and theres a chance kiling you there wont be anyone to give testimony.

Actually as a gringo, you've got a much better chance with a thug in the USA than you might with a thug in Colombia, IMO. Language barrier for one thing. Secondly, a Colombian thug most likely will not be like someone you may have pictured in your mind. Think along the lines of brainwashed, very curious, and extremely trigger happy 12 to 16 year old kid or group of kids, for example. Would you expect this? Think you can reason with this kind of mindset who has nothing to lose? Think again.

If you do a search on the woman who was shot in a bar about two months ago in BAQ, there was a security camera video link on the ordeal that involved two men that showed everything. Again, you can also search YouTube (try asesin or asesinados), there were some crude cell phone type vids available. There was one I saw several months ago where two kids rolled up on a motorcycle, parked it, got off, walked across the street, and popped some guy from behind sitting on the curb in front of about 5 people. Was it fake? Not sure. It looked real enough to me.

You asked the question, right? So I'm assuming you want the truth (shame on me).  

Look, regardless of all this, the best defense is to not to put yourself at risk in the first place. This means you follow some guidelines ... especially if you're a tourist:

• Travel in groups
• Don't be out walking around alone ... especially after dark
• Don't carry items on your person that you aren't willing to give up
• Don't make yourself a target ... wearing bling, smoking weed with someone who seems cool, being drunk in public
• Always be aware of your surroundings. This means don't walk around with earbuds in your ears listening to music.
• Walk with confidence.
• Don't look like a tourist.
• Don't look like you're lost.
• Look like you belong.
• Don't walk around texting on your phone.
• Don't flaunt your cash in public. You never know who's watching.
• Don't be a nice guy and get lured away from the crowd by someone who appears to need help.

As I remember a short passage in one of Woody's trip reports, he had heard someone calling (presumably for him) several times from behind him. He, wisely, sped up his walk and got to a place where there were people around. Who knows what that was all about but he made it out of a potentially bad situation. I would call this having some street smarts.

But don't take only the advice offered on this forum. The Internet is your oyster. Use it to the best of your ability to find what you're looking for regarding your safety. If you're looking for a guarantee, and it sounds like you are for some reason, this is your first mistake and it would be better to stay home.

[Woody]

As I remember a short passage in one of Woody's trip reports, he had heard someone calling (presumably for him) several times from behind him. He, wisely, sped up his walk and got to a place where there were people around. Who knows what that was all about but he made it out of a potentially bad situation. I would call this having some street smarts.

The fact of the matter is that I was walking in an area I probably should not have been. When I recognized that they were calling to me, I decided that the best thing to do was to feign ignorance. They may or may not have been hostile, but there was no question that they were trying to get my attention("Gringo!" is pretty clear...).

As for what to do when confronted, it is completely situational. You need to keep a level head and do an instant risk assessment of the situation. If I am being held at gunpoint and I think that the [snip]er is going to shoot me regardless of what I do, I am going to toss the goods to the side and behind him and, depending on the distance, either rush him or haul ass. If he is almost in arms reach as soon as he turns to follow the goods, he is getting a kick or a punch and then I am going to beat him within an inch of his life. If he is too far and the situation permits, I will haul ass while the goods are still in the air. Despite my size, I am very quick on my feet.

If he doesn't have a gun, I'll toss the wad of mostly 1mil notes that I keep in my pocket (some 10, and 20 mil notes as well, the thief will get a good $50-$75 from me) and haul ass. A knife isnt a serious threat unless it devolves in to close quarters combat. You do NOT want to get into a knife fight, it is ugly and usually results in bleeding to death. If I was carrying my DSLR I would use it as a weapon. It is only worth about $300 now, well worth destroying it to use it as a rock on a rope in self defense.

[euforia51]

The fact of the matter is that I was walking in an area I probably should not have been. When I recognized that they were calling to me, I decided that the best thing to do was to feign ignorance. They may or may not have been hostile, but there was no question that they were trying to get my attention("Gringo!" is pretty clear...).

Not to take what actually happened out of context with failing to remember the person calling out "Gringo". I was trying to remember at least one clear detail and was too lazy go back and look it up. Sorry. The ultimate point for me with using your example was it demonstrated having some street smarts. And since I was impressed with the trip report, I remembered at least some of it, and I used it in my post.

[JimD]

I´ll have to ask my girl what she thinks about that question. She seems to have a lot of contacts in the "bajo mundo". In the mean time I can´t think of any reports in Cali of anyone who handed over their money being killed. Resisting someone who has a gun on the other hand is sheer folly as far as I´m concerned. There was a young lady who was well known in the Chipichape gringo circles who held on to her purse resisting and got shot dead right in front of Exito de La Flora. She had just picked up a big giro at Western Union and didn´t want to give it up. Unless they make some king of mistake like crashing their moto into a wall while making their escape criminals like that never get caught so they really don´t think twice before killing a victim.

[mudd]

When comes to KNIFE, you need Karate training.   I used to train karate for 3 years in 1990s before going to University.  I have learnt lots from karate, but now I believe I have forgotten!!

yep, and a lot of it. we did wooden knife fight training in my Brazilian jui jitsu class with our SWAT instructor. His point was to show us,  that in a knife fight, somebodys going to get cut and stabbed, no matter how well your trained. it just isn't worth going to the hospital or morgue for a few  dollars.

and we wont even bring up if they have a gun.

best advice, don't get into the situation or go to a place where its a problem.

[fathertime]

[quoteYou can run through scenarios all day long but it's almost guaranteed an actual situation will be very different from what you expected and will happen when you least expect it. Then what will you do? Whitey says your Spanish (and possible negotiating skills) will be forgotten in a hurry. Who could disagree?][/quote]

this is an important point that euphroia birngs up...i think it is good to play these things out in your head so i think this thread is excellent, but the fact remains, many times it will happen so suddenly and in such a way that you are totoally caught off guard...i'm all for giving the armed bandit what he wants and a little extra maybe like a wristwatch or something...and just walking quickly away....but what happens if you are really cornered/isolated by 2 or 3 guys? that is what REALLY scares me even more, especially if i'm with my wife...I think I'm pretty much dead in that type of situation becuase I don't see myself letting them tie me up and rendering me helpless and i'm probably not going to be quick enough to take a weapon from them.  so what are the suggestions of things to do in that situation?

Fathertime!

[Tanuki]

FT:

If three guys jump you and have you pinned in, your not going to make it out unhurt.  Then, you add the fact they armed with a gun or knife, it is even bleaker for your situation.  Most people do not have the skills to fight their way out of that situation.  If it does happen and you have to fight to get out; make a lot of noise, fight to win and tell your wife to run like hell! Her staying there to watch and cry will do you no good.  She needs to run for help and you should talk about this in advance and make sures she understands.  My ex-wife thought I was crazy and over thinking situations but, I told her the drill.
 
The idea is to avoid going into an area where that can happen.  Stay in busy areas, don't go down empty side streets, and be watchful of where you are.  Situational awareness is important.  watch the people around you and be mindful of anyone who might be following you. If you see stranger more than once while walking around, become suspicious. What you wear and how you dress can be important.  Never wear sandals!  These shoes leave you at a tactical disadvantage.  Your feet are not properly covered, easy to trip and not good for running.  A light jacket/vest can be used to avoid knife cuts if wrapped around your arm, thrown in the attackers face as part of escape and worst case, to help stop bleeding. If you are really concerned, there is a lot of information out there, here is one source:

http://www.bombshock.com/theft/how-to-protect-yourself-on-city-streets.html

[Gavan]

1st,   if your worried about it, then don't go to  Colombia!!!! , pick another destination, Peru, Ecuador,  Panama, Cuba, Chile, Argentina etc  where crime is less of a problem.

This kind of thing (armed muggings) happens in Peru all the time too. In most cases people just give the choro(mugger) what he wants and they get away unharmed. However, if you resist at all and the mugger feels threatened in any way you may get stabbed or shot. Also if you do not have anything to give, they often get pissed of and beat you up just out of frustration.

[JimD]

I asked my compañera and she confirmed that typically in Cali if you hand over the money, cel or whatever the bad guys just go. If you play tricks with them like throwing your wallet in one direction and running in another they will probobly shoot you...not out of spite but because they´ll think you´re escaping with money not in your wallet.

[Bob_S]

Her staying there to watch and cry will do you no good.  She needs to run for help and you should talk about this in advance and make sures she understands. 

And don't forget, she shouldn't yell "Help Help!" because no one cares.  Yell "Fire Fire!" because everyone will come out to look at the fire.

[Zon]

Be willing and able to get robbed.  That is the best way to begin.  Then, realize you are a target ALL the time, and begin to be AWARE in such an environment.

Limit risks, if you need, for example do not take taxis on the side of the road (although I do it all the time).  Avoid getting lost.  Do not display repeat behavior.  Do not wear BLING. Limit being alone.  Each city has its hot spots.

The dangerous stuff is pretty obvious.  I would not concern myself too much.

If you do get robbed, give up your [snip] fast and thank them for their time - with a smile



 

[Researcher]

      I think my wife's family gets robbed on the street about once every 3 months.They just give up what the robbers want. I think Muds gave the best advice in carrying a dummy wallet. That is something I do. When I was younger I didn't care and almost wanted someone to try something but now that I am older and wiser I would let the robbers have my fake wallet without hesitation.It seems to be the pattern with my wife's family.The only time anyone was hurt was when they resisted.


       Researcher

[ignorante]

Still too bad about not being able to carry a gun in Colombia.

It's not like the bad guys do not have weapons.  The gun laws there disarm only the peaceable citizens who would use them to protect their own precious life and that of their family.

[JimD]

The gun laws there disarm only the peaceable citizens who would use them to protect their own precious life and that of their family.

That´s not true at all. Pretty much anyone who wants a license to carry a weapon can get one. The limitations are you have to get the permit from the Army and purchase the gun from them. In Cali that´s the "Batallion" on Calle Quinta in Barrio Capri. Normally it´s a longish process but but my lawyer (as well as most I imagine) says he can get the wait down to a week if I want a gun and permit. If you want one for just short stay there are places in Barrio Aguablanca in Cali where you can illegaly rent anything from a .38 to an AK 47. That´s what many of the criminals do in order to commit crimes because they don´t have the money to buy one out right.

[mudd]

after my friend got robbed in Medellin twice, and got tired of looking down a gun barrel by some punk, he bought an illegal pistol.  doubt he has a permit for it, and to  be honest, i doubt he could hit the broad side of a barn jajajaja

either get rid of all guns, which is not a good idea, or give them to anyone who can pass a physc test, common sense test and background check .  thieves would think twice about robbing somebody if they thought they might get shot themselves.  but that's just my opinion.

[euforia51]

after my friend got robbed in Medellin twice, and got tired of looking down a gun barrel by some punk, he bought an illegal pistol.  doubt he has a permit for it, and to  be honest, i doubt he could hit the broad side of a barn jajajaja
...

Well damn mudd ... your friend got robbed at gunpoint ... twice ... and the original question relates to how did he get out of it alive? You didn't mention this!