Advice on Medellin from you experts out there please!

[utopiacowboy]

"As for the Italianos being competition.....use some logic. In very round numbers there are 1.5 million women in Medellin. Of that number 750,000 are single, and 150,000 of them are 8's, 9's and 10's. At any given moment there MAY be a dozen gringos (in this case Americanos) and a half dozen Italianos in center Poblado trying to hook up with one of these 150,000 ladies. Do you seriously think there is any real competition between gringos and Italianos?"

Assuming a metropolitan population of 1.5 million women there would be 400,000 under the age of 15. The median age is 28.9 so that gives us 750,000 older than 28.9 years and 750,000 younger than 28.9. That leaves about 350,000 women between the ages of 15 and 28.9. Colombian women tend to marry young so at least half (and probably a much higher percentage) of that group is married so that leaves about 175,000 single women in that age range. Dropping those younger than 18 leaves us with about 130,000 single women. Nearly all of them have boyfriends so that leaves about 20 available women for the gringos and Italians!

[Zon]

LOL  "Nearly all of them have boyfriends so that leaves about 20 available women for the gringos and Italians!"

Interestingly, I have not met a woman who has ADMITTED having a novio.  When I ask during introductory conversation, the facial expression is always the same - "no way, me"  OF COURSE these women have boyfriends - more than one in some cases. 

Tis the way it tis.

[utopiacowboy]

LOL  "Nearly all of them have boyfriends so that leaves about 20 available women for the gringos and Italians!"

Interestingly, I have not met a woman who has ADMITTED having a novio.  When I ask during introductory conversation, the facial expression is always the same - "no way, me"  OF COURSE these women have boyfriends - more than one in some cases. 

Tis the way it tis.

Of course I was joking. Even the ones who have boyfriends don't mind doing some shopping to see what's out there. They will never admit it though.

[Researcher]

LOL  "Nearly all of them have boyfriends so that leaves about 20 available women for the gringos and Italians!"

Interestingly, I have not met a woman who has ADMITTED having a novio.  When I ask during introductory conversation, the facial expression is always the same - "no way, me"  OF COURSE these women have boyfriends - more than one in some cases. 

Tis the way it tis.

     Hehehe!...They have boyfriends??IMHO, then they are available! I didn't just look for the women sitting alone in the corner waiting for Prince Charming to come along.The good ones will almost always have boyfriends but that doesn't mean they are unavailable!!! HEHEHE! Hey Zon maybe I should give you some dating lessons!

      Researcher

[Zon]

"Hey Zon maybe I should give you some dating lessons!"  I am always up for learning.

I am not taking dating lessons, I am taking Spanish lessons.  Language is so important, and I am not just talking about getting by Spanish.   That is the key.  Interestingly, while I have been here, I have not been motivated to chase every available woman.  Quite the opposite actually.  There are TONS of doors that could be opened.  I might get "lucky" over the next couple months (I already have gotten lucky - I mean "real lucky"), but I do not have great expectations until I take a couple months of Spanish to elevate my communication skills.


 

 

[Jeff S]

good point Jeff, it is very interesting and very enlightening, goes to show that rules are made to be broken, although I personally don't think 4 happily married guys is a 'big' number, given the thousands and thousands of us who have tried it that way. I applaud their success and appreciate their situations, though. Well done guys!

There are like maybe 4,000 people registered on this forum and 4 of them were successful 'exceptions to the rule' that isn't really a rule other than a figment in our minds.........maybe 4 is not such a big number, nonetheless, their success is noteworthy and offers a glimpse of the Holy Grail  and a ray of hope for the rest of us.
The bottom line in my estimation is to try everything that is legal and feels good and remain optimistic. Maybe its one trip or maybe its a dozen, keep on keeping on.

Yes, as Cap said, way, way more than 4. Practically everyone on the Asian board, and a lot of guys here on the Latin board.

Like you I have met a lot of women overseas, but also like you I wasn't there for the sole purpose of finding a wife. I was there for business or for the pure joy of traveling and exploring other cultures. Those who head out on this with the idea that they're getting some unpleasant task completed in the least amount of time with the least amount of money will find it infinitely more difficult than those who head out to explore strange new worlds, seek out new lives and new civilizations ....

Here's another thing, that I bet few of you have even considered. What about the women? How will a potentially perfect partner for you react to a you meeting a long list of potentials? Will she be as attracted to you if she has between 9:45 and 10:15 to impress you because at 10:15, the next one, with even bigger hooters will be waiting outside for you to say "Next?" There have been some female posters here who have said they absolutely wouldn't show up for a casting call. Is the kind of woman who does well at a casting call the kind you want to marry in the first place? This isn't shopping for a used car where you look through what is in the lot and pick one or head to the next lot. It's about two individuals connecting.

[Researcher]

     Those are exactly the kind of things I pondered Jeff S. before and during my journey.What I found was that women who had a problem with me meeting many others usually had very low self esteem.The ones who didn't mind it understood the deal....it's called dating. Anyone who is so insecure that they feel threatened in this situation probably is not going to make for a good partner anyway.If it weren't for having many options then why not just stay in the US and take your chances with the very few options we have here?


       Researcher

[fathertime]

"Hey Zon maybe I should give you some dating lessons!"  I am always up for learning.

I am not taking dating lessons, I am taking Spanish lessons.  Language is so important, and I am not just talking about getting by Spanish.   That is the key.  

 

zon if you decide you want dating lessons, i'd be happy to assist you.

in your mind language may be sooo important...but 'getting by' spanish is just fine, i'm going to break something to you...based on everything i have learned about you through your postings, the likelyhood of you ever getting to a point where you talking in spanish like  you do in english is pretty damn low.  i'd quit making fact a roadblock for yourself or you might be studying until you are 65 and by then you will have forgotten most of what you learned.  you treat this whole thing like you're Gandhi making a peace pilgramage to south africa...for Christ's sake just remember you are just wife-hunting among a country chock full beautiful babes so quite being so damn complicated!  

btw:  somebody friended me on facebook...she/he has the same last name as you used to use as a username here?  who is she and how does she/he know of me?

Fathertime!

[Zon]

FT - sometimes, just sometimes, your posts are as strange as the image on your avatar.

Everyone has different preferences, tastes and styles.  A reference Jeff S post upthread - maybe part of the reason I have never used agencies: just does not FEEL right to me.  I much prefer a more natural approach, and that can take much more time and communication ability.   

I enjoy meeting new people - good people - men and women.  I was up in the mountains yesterday doing volunteer work with poor kids.  I could not speak freely and smoothly with them.  It is something I want to do.  Generally, it takes gringos here 2 - 3 years to speak "well enough".  I spent the first couple years content with just getting by Spanish.  Now, mastering the language is as much of a priority as anything else.   For me, it is not a means to an end.

I am not on vacation. And, I am not "wife hunting".  I am working.   I am doing volunteer work.  I am networking and opportunity seeking. I have 2 adventure trips planned over the next 2 month (one 10 day trip into the Amazon).  None of this has anything to do with women.  I have tossed in the garbage far more phone numbers than I have called. Quality of Quantity.  And, I am in no particular hurry.

About Facebook?   No idea.  I try to keep my real world and online monikers separated.

[dennislevy]

Euforia, Im still confused as hell by what you meant...but if you feel that I quoted you out of the context that you mean...then I m sorry.

Researcher at al.
Call it low self esteem, insecurty or even jealousy...but remember that many Colombian women have been through the mill..

I have heard so many stories of women who were abandoned, their novio left them pregnant, thir husband had another family in another city in Colombia....in some places in La Guajira its common for a man to shuttle between two or more women and separate households....and the women know the identities of each other.  

So when they ask especially in an agency.....are you meeting other women?  or how many are you meeting?....there may be some history behind that question. They simply do not trust men....they want them, they need them, they have physical needs, but they dont usually trust them.

Let me make the point yet again...women who pay to join agencies may have a little more motivation, but in general they are a cross section of the city in which they live, they arent any different from the women on Cupido or the women in a shopping mall.

I compare myself now with the Dennis who came to Bogota in January 2008. My first time in a Bogota agency, I met 24 women in three weeks and now on this road trip that just keeps going and going, I ve met 35 women since the beginning of December.  My Spanish is way better, my interactions are infintely more textured and now after three years....at least in my dating pool, there isnt much if anything that a woman can do that willl surprise me.  

That young gorgeous women have novios or other men in their lives other then the foreigner who wants to jump their bones.....that s no great surprise. and that s why I never run after young beautiful women,  I don t want to be a fool or have much competition.

I remember talking with a 50 plus gringo in Medellin who was giving money to his 22 year old novia.........for among other things...........tution at the university, without even seeing a tuition statement. He later found out that she had dropped out the semester before...and when she wasnt with him....she had a Colombian novio closer to her age...and I m sure they had a good time with the gringo s money.

And even mature beautiful Colombianas will play musical chairs with men.

I travel to meet women and if they dont let me into their life by which I mean their home, I don t meet their friends and especially THEIR FAMILY...I move on. The woman I m with in Monteria is 41, never married, no kids....beautiful...at least to me...and my opinion is the only one I really care about.....and she told me that she had not had a date or a man in her life in 6 years....and I m reasonbly certain that is the truth.

Our first face to face date was on the night of the 23rd I ve been in her office, I ve met some of her work colleagues I ve been in her home, I ve met her family and friends and it s all happened in a week.

There are jewels like this woman all over Colombia....but it takes time and experience to recognize them.

I read Zon s comments and I chuckle to myself,,,because his form of thinking and approach to meeting women is so different then mine..but we both enjoy our different Colombias.

[Researcher]

        Everytime Zon mentions meeting women "the natural way" this is the image that pops into my head! hehehe


                      Researcher



                                                   

[Researcher]

        Exactly Dennis, many of them have been through the mill.Some have serious issues because of it and some handle adversity well and are stronger for it. That's part of the advantage of looking there.It's easy to see which is which and choose accordingly.


         Researcher

[fathertime]

        Everytime Zon mentions meeting women "the natural way" this is the image that pops into my head! hehehe


                      Researcher



                                                   

well Researcher i must admit zon does seem a little silly with his 'organic' meeting methods...where is that photo from, i must have missed that movie?

[fathertime]

FT - sometimes, just sometimes, your posts are as strange as the image on your avatar.

Everyone has different preferences, tastes and styles.  A reference Jeff S post upthread - maybe part of the reason I have never used agencies: just does not FEEL right to me.  I much prefer a more natural approach, and that can take much more time and communication ability.   

I enjoy meeting new people - good people - men and women.  I was up in the mountains yesterday doing volunteer work with poor kids.  I could not speak freely and smoothly with them.  It is something I want to do.  Generally, it takes gringos here 2 - 3 years to speak "well enough".  I spent the first couple years content with just getting by Spanish.  Now, mastering the language is as much of a priority as anything else.   For me, it is not a means to an end.

I am not on vacation. And, I am not "wife hunting".  I am working.   I am doing volunteer work.  I am networking and opportunity seeking. I have 2 adventure trips planned over the next 2 month (one 10 day trip into the Amazon).  None of this has anything to do with women.  I have tossed in the garbage far more phone numbers than I have called. Quality of Quantity.  And, I am in no particular hurry.

About Facebook?   No idea.  I try to keep my real world and online monikers separated.

now you know i like to give you a hard time because you are so innocent and idealistic...now stop with all this 'i'm working' crap and admit you are wife-hunting! 

actually i tink itis  great that you are volenteering your time and effort tohelp the kids though...i have my doubts that youare throwing away numbers of nice good looking women though...do you have a stict celibacy clause you are adhereing to in your volenteer contract?

re facebook...never mind...i looked over the photos of this person...looks like it oculd be your brother or wife of brother or something...what an odd coincedence though.

Fathertime!

[Researcher]

well Researcher i must admit zon does seem a little silly with his 'organic' meeting methods...where is that photo from, i must have missed that movie?

     It's called A Night at the Roxbury. Its based on a Saturday Night Live skit. I hear a part 2 is coming out called "Meeting Women the Natural Way".

      Researcher

[Jeff S]

     Those are exactly the kind of things I pondered Jeff S. before and during my journey.What I found was that women who had a problem with me meeting many others usually had very low self esteem.The ones who didn't mind it understood the deal....it's called dating. Anyone who is so insecure that they feel threatened in this situation probably is not going to make for a good partner anyway.If it weren't for having many options then why not just stay in the US and take your chances with the very few options we have here?


       Researcher

Funny, I've found the exact opposite. Those who refuse to be part of a casting call have high self esteem - and just aren't interested in a man who is shopping for the best deal.

[ignorante]

as strange as the image on your avatar.

  FT's avatar is strange?  I hadn't noticed.

[Researcher]

  Well Jeff S. I doubt that you have ever used an agency so I don't expect you to get what I'm saying but if you are dating then at some point you put yourself "out there".Whether you use an agency or internet dating site, I'd even include the organic dating style used by Zon. Either way you have to put yourself "on display" in some form or another. The less self esteem you have the more uncomfortable it can become and that determines to what degree you do it.

  I enjoyed meeting many women and became very comfortable with the idea.Viewing it as
"shopping" is how a novice may look at it but for those of us that have been there and done that it is no different than meeting women at a bar, on the street, in a market or any other organic way of meeting women.It is the most efficient way, IMHO.It isn't for those who have a serious problem with knowing they are competing with others.They are probably better off being ignorant of the fact that if you are dating, you are competing.

        Researcher

[dennislevy]

This is a conversation that we can have all day.

I like women with high self esteem, but the decision to enter an exclusive relationship should be a mutual one, I do not defer to women who get pissy because I am having first dates wth a number of women.  If Ive suggested nothing and done nothing other then the standard kiss on the cheek.....the woman can think what she wants about me, but I feel no sense of obligation to her...

And the great majority of the women I ve met have been 1 or 2 or sometimes three dates and we both moved on...without sex...or committments

[Zon]

"What is Love ...  Baby don't hurt me anymore"   Funny Stuff.  But, I don't understand why some of you guys seem to PREFER to use and agency EXCLUSIVELY?  I just don't get it.

When I meet a woman at the mall, in a bus, at the museum, or in a dance club, I am able to read body language, make approximations about the way she is dressed the people she is with ... I am able to discern a lot of info.  Especially, I can determine if she is interested in knowing me.  Maybe that sounds like ancient Greek to some of you.  I don't know. It just makes sense to me.

But, look!  This is one of the many topics that I really don't give two [snip]s about.  If you want to use an agency, do it.  Hell, I have no ax to grind.  I am not AGAINST using an agency someday.

[Researcher]

      It really doesn't matter how you meet women, as long as you meet them! I used all the above and did quite well. The negative perceptions of agencies are over blown.There are advantages and disadvantages to any way you go about it.The important thing is that you go about it!

      Researcher

[dennislevy]

Zon


You claim that your Spanish isnt top knotch and yet you can meet women on the fly...in musuems and on busses....and by meeting them I assume its more then buenas dias señorita and you do get a valid telephone number.

If you can actually do that.....then you re better then good, you re the prince of f....ing darkness......

[Zon]

Come on... "If you can actually do that.....then you re better then good, you re the prince of f....ing darkness......"  That is NOT TRUE.

I have caveman spanish.  I can communicate with SOME people ok.  Others talk too fast with slang, and I get a headache within 5 minutes.

But, getting phone numbers is pretty damn easy.  Having them amount to something is more difficult.    And, it is not just me at all. 

I went out with a friend who has been here for 9 months, jesus the guy has literally 100s adn 100s of numbers.  I have a friend that I met in Cali, he bought an apartment here 2 years ago.  He could produce phone numbers for me and him like a ticker tape parade.  (His Spanish was awful, but he thought it was good:) 

I was with an Americano who speaks espaniol muy bien yesterday.  We were together for 3 hours, he got 4 numbers - and he was with his girlfriend!  All this serves to prove a point.  It's easy to meet girls on the fly - even with caveman espaniol

It is hard to meet "good girls" from upper stratas, however.  It is hard to convert these acquaintances into dates - high "flake out" rate.

[dennislevy]

OK, maybe its just me or that I m attractd to older women then you. I ll stop into a shop and talk to an attractive woman who is working there ...for me that s not hard to do in a smaller city or town....and I ll qualify her.

But I dont want to collect a telephone number without qualifying a woman first. And I ll admit that I don t like to chat aimlessly with women on the telephone.

[utopiacowboy]

Come on... "If you can actually do that.....then you re better then good, you re the prince of f....ing darkness......"  That is NOT TRUE.

I have caveman spanish.  I can communicate with SOME people ok.  Others talk too fast with slang, and I get a headache within 5 minutes.

But, getting phone numbers is pretty damn easy.  Having them amount to something is more difficult.    And, it is not just me at all. 

I went out with a friend who has been here for 9 months, jesus the guy has literally 100s adn 100s of numbers.  I have a friend that I met in Cali, he bought an apartment here 2 years ago.  He could produce phone numbers for me and him like a ticker tape parade.  (His Spanish was awful, but he thought it was good:) 

I was with an Americano who speaks espaniol muy bien yesterday.  We were together for 3 hours, he got 4 numbers - and he was with his girlfriend!  All this serves to prove a point.  It's easy to meet girls on the fly - even with caveman espaniol

It is hard to meet "good girls" from upper stratas, however.  It is hard to convert these acquaintances into dates - high "flake out" rate.

You are absolutely right. In fact I almost think it's better if your Spanish is not too good - the chicks start giggling about your accent and you're halfway there. I love it when my wife speaks bad English with her accent - very sexy.