It starts again - too much commericalism of Christmas/my Christmas Message

[Bear]

I don't know if this is what you would call a Christmas message.  But to me it is all the proof I'll ever need. 

I just listen to a TV moderator (again) of well known fame criticize all the stores putting out Christmas items sooner this year than any other year I remember.  I noticed it too but I think I understood, he didn't/doesn't get it and never will. 

I went to a convention a few years back and in the process pf the many seminars heard an unbelievable statistic.  On an average, over 60% of all the items sold in the world happens at Christmas - some businesses even more.  Wow!  Think about it, over 2 1/2 times what would have occurred without Christmas.

Currently or economy suffers as cruel and selfish people lie and steal from us through fraudulent business practices or those with the ability and authority to do something about it, don't, so that they might enhance their power and control.  Businesses in the act of need turn to pushing the Christmas items out sooner in hopes that that 60% fact of life happens again.

What exactly is happening?  We, in honor and celebration of our God who gave to us his son, we try to mimic him and celebrate the gift of giving by giving ourselves.  On a day we call his birthday we worship the birth of our Heavenly Father's Son and the un-denied fact he came into the world.  No one makes us, many "bah humbug" their way through it, some of us believe we celebrate the wrong day, a lot of us complain about the how "Christ" is being taken out of it.  But the fact still remains, we celebrate our Great Brothers birth and a great miracle occurs so many "see" but never "see".  Jobs are provided and salaries paid.  All manner of things are paid for like homes, cars, food, even a better educations and savings for our future.  People fed and clothed.  We have self-esteem in that we provided because we had a job that just happened to provide a Christmas present to someone or maintain the business of someone who did. 

Yeah.  Millions were fed and clothed and had roofs over their heads.  Much of the world is safe because a man didn't have to steal or go war to make a living.  Why?  We celebrated HIS birth and try, as we can, to give a gift to those we love.  Where did we learn that?  No one made us or required it, we chose to do it and that act multiplies itself in awesome ways just as he fed thousands with a few loaves of bread and a few fish. All we had to do is give a gift like our Heavenly Father did.

I say bring on the commercialism of Christmas and let it help business in their time of need, it will only prove my beliefs.

This year I noticed those in power aren't just trying to take "Christ" out of Christmas but "religion" out of war as they take to trial religious fanatics and charge them with crimes that ignore their stated cause.  The global warming idiots meet in a blizzard in Denmark as Texas and places like the east coast have the worse snow storm in recent history and criminals (or patriots?) hack onto computers that prove lies with the intent of power grab/shift.  Scientist prove that the ground is warming so the melting of the ice is from below not above (your SUV didn't do it).  Worldwide volcanic activity is oddly increasing.  Those who can't see that the gift of giving saves the world also can't see that it isn't commercialism that threatens the world but their ignorance and stubborn efforts to ignore facts.

The Bear Family

[bcc_1_2]

This year I noticed those in power aren't just trying to take "Christ" out of Christmas

The story of a virgin born savior who rose from the dead was popular around the Mediterranean for around a 1000 years before christianity. Many where born on the 25th to a virgin and later healed the sick. Such as Lazarus who was raised by Horus from the dead. 

Without commercialism left I'm just not sure what I could get behind  Certainly not the fairytales for adults. I've already got Transformers to watch so I'm all good there. But somebody's still got to buy me the DVD... and that's what Christmas is for.

[robert angel]

I seem to recall something about three wise men who had some pretty good gifts to give, although that's certainly not the 'reason for the season'....

[fathertime]

The story of a virgin born savior who rose from the dead was popular around the Mediterranean for around a 1000 years before christianity. Many where born on the 25th to a virgin and later healed the sick. Such as Lazarus who was raised by Horus from the dead. 

Without commercialism left I'm just not sure what I could get behind  Certainly not the fairytales for adults.

I really find no reason to disrespect other people's religous beliefs on this board.  There certainly could be a 'God' out there and I'm not too sure which worship vehicle he has allowed himself to be, or if he is a combination of many of the gods from different societies.
Now get out there and 'Stimulate' our economy for us, if that is what you want to do!

Fathertime!

[bcc_1_2]

I really find no reason to disrespect other people's religous beliefs on this board.  

Great claims require a preponderance of evidence. So when I state facts that should not be considered disrespect.

If you want to bring up Christ on a PL message board there are two sides to the coin. Any statement of fact that contradicts religion (and there are many) is instantly disrespectful. Well I feel religion is an insult to my intelligence and yet nobody seems to mind that. Fair is fair... if you can dish it out... you can take it.

The only thing I like about Xmas is all the nice stuff my parents still buy me so I hold the opposite opinion of the OP.

[Bear]

The story of a virgin born savior who rose from the dead was popular around the Mediterranean for around a 1000 years before Christianity. Many where born on the 25th to a virgin and later healed the sick. Such as Lazarus who was raised by Horus from the dead. 

Really?  Then why don't they call this Horusmas?  Or name it after some other healer? And the 25th of December is not the real day of Christ birth, in fact for the Shepard's to be in the field at that place (and other items noted in the scriptures) it would more likely be around the beginning of April, springtime.  But all the detractors find all kinds of ways to skew the purpose and ignore the miracle that is occurring.  The day means nothing, the pagan rites that were also practiced (before and after) and warped into the celebration mean nothing.  The fact is simply we come together to celebrate the gift of giving and claim it to be in the name of and for Jesus Christ's birthday.  This act no matter how commercialized you see it, no matter how many faults that can be found with the day/time/season, it feeds/clothes/secures the lives billions of people - in the name of Jesus Christ.  See the miracle and then you understand why so many try to destroy it and change its name and purpose, to destroy him and the good he does.

The Bear Family

[bcc_1_2]

Really?  Then why don't they call this Horusmas? 

That's actually a very good question. There are 5 or 6 similar stories before the story of christ. The jews had their own savior as well which the romans killed. I remember studying the new testament (mathew, mark, luke, and john). The first time the story was written it ends with jesus being dead and the boulder being put in place. Then in later versions the story gets a lot more interesting (or crazy if you will). None of those guys lived during the time and as stories get passed down they can of course get embellished. Plus the stories were never written by just one person. No such thing as plagiarism in the bronze age.

The problem with the story of Jesus is that it is not a unique story idea. Once young minds learn that in school they generally feel betrayed or lied to by their parents, church, etc. The person that taught our class actually happened to be very religous herself. I remember a girl got up and called the professor a liar when the previous versions of Jesus were discussed in class. This poor girl believed her whole life that the story was very real and very unique and she just couldn't take it when she found out the story was actually very normal for the time period and mirrored a long line of previous stories.

I'll give you this terrorists use religion as a crutch for their cause. Pat Robertson blamed 911 on the gays. Religion is a very powerful and dangerous weapon.

The stories of Jesus in and of itself aren't the problem. The real issue is the apocalyptic worldview that all religions share. The biggest fear of course being humans figuring out how to blow the world up before learning to take responsibility for their actions. Some world leader sets off nukes and that's a good thing... because it is the 2nd coming of christ.

You ask folks to see the miracle yet provide nothing to show them. All you can do is hold up a book written by people. I can hold up my book of Jack and the Beanstalk and tell you it is true, but I can't back it up anymore than you can.

Religion has been used for centuries as a way to control the peasants and for those in charge to struggle for power (IE pope versus king of england... that was all about money going to Rome). The problem now with religion is how well people have figured out how to blow things up.

[robert angel]

If you read the Torah, Bible and Koran, there's more similarities among them than there are differences, and even that's with many people editing these books over the years. Almost all religions have a code of conduct and they're often quite similar. They seem to have initially espoused peace and honesty, along with compassion for the poor and sick.

Poltics and religion were supposed to be separate, now they hold each other up in most nations and money and economic direction is also influenced by most religions.

It's taken man to read what he wants into these books and to justify his own agenda in doing so. All the major religions are a far cry from what they were originally.

If the prophets came back, do you think they'd be staying in huge mosques, at the vatican--wearing silk robes and drinking from solid gold cups? I rather doubt it.

There are some other religions that don't fall so clearly into the above scenarios, but overall, mankind has certainly managed to change what seemed to be religion's intentions in some pretty sad ways.

[Bear]

Millions of people witness Jesus Christ and thousands wrote about him. Even some of the eastern cultures said he came there to study before he started his priesthood in Israel.  Your Hourus - first time I've heard about him and to compare him and other fables to Christ's life is just unbelievable.  But if you don't want to believe you won't. 

I think you actually missed the whole point of the post.  The good that the celebration of Christ birthday does and the spirit of giving.  So many people complain about commercialism but miss completely that it is done in the spirit of giving and that this is a good thing.  The Bible has never taught that it is bad/wrong to make a profit, it says that wealth confuses a person on what's right and wrong because the consequences are lessened for earthly efforts.  But to miss that this one day magnifies all the efforts of the whole of the world and gives so much to so many is like standing in a forest and saying you can find trees.  CHRISTmas, the spirit of giving after the manner of our father in heaven, not because we are commanded to but because we want to.  To see what happens when we emulate our father.  Is that really so hard?

The Bear Family

[bcc_1_2]

Your Hourus - first time I've heard about him and to compare him

This is what is scary right here.

This website gives a historically accurate comparison. While you won't like the title at least educate yourself. Hell if I can read the new testament... you can handle factual history.

http://www.jesusisfiction.com/

That website compares the stories of Horus of Egypt (who came first!) to Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus).

Then look up Krishna (India), Mithra (Persia), and on down the list. Because when you don't even understand that the exact same stories already happened before Jesus you are at a severe intellectual disadvantage.

Millions of people thought the earth was flat. Millions of people believed in cutting people open to withdrawal considerable amounts of blood (blood letting) to cure desease and illness. Your logic is faulty.

You don't know what happens when you die... because I don't know what happens when you die... and you do not possess powers that I do not have.

The only thing nice about the holiday for me is the material objects and time spent with family. Celebrating the birth of the dark ages just doesn't do it for me.

heck there is even a youtube video that touches on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0&feature=related

[Bear]

Dude your statements are off the wall.  Nothing you said relates to what I said or my post and your associations and comparisons are like a shotgun pattern with no connections and all missing the bullseye.  Like I said if you don't want to believe you won't.

Don't trip over that tree.

The Bear Family

[bcc_1_2]

Dude your statements are off the wall. 

Not at all actually you bounced from Christmas, to war, and then to global warming.

You dislike the commericalism... I'm a-ok with it. I'm usually a little dissapointed debating believers because it seems they haven't even done the basic research on religion (to be fair some do the research).

Like I say if you don't want to research actual fact based history... you won't. At least someone who researched (believer or non) can say they haven't stuck their head in the sand. Right now... you can't.

The stuff I'm talking about here can be learned in a private college with a lutheran background. Heck my campus had a couple of churches on campus and the religion teacher was quite religious.