Making a move (on someone, not to another country)

[Old_dude07]

Hi all (long post ahead, sorry),

I'm thinking of asking out a girl here near my house and would like some ideas.  Just a brief little note on my situation. 

As some may or may not know, I went to Bangkok early this year in order to meet women (it was an 'agency' I posted about before).  I met a bunch of nice women, enjoyed my time there, but I really didn't feel any real connection with the women I went out with.  One I kind of thought maybe I had chemistry but after I came back home it didn't last more than a few emails.  Then a month after I came back home, I received an email from this one lady I met but didn't go out with (she came with her friend from 3 hours drive away to join the agency).  I remembered her, I thought she was really beautiful but didn't think much of it since we didn't go out.  We had been corresponding for over 5 months, very meaningful email conversations and she gave me many pictures of herself.  I told her I was thinking of going back to Thailand in the summer and she told me to let her know when so she can take time off from work and we can hang out.  I really thought she could have been the one.  But she all of a sudden stopped emailing me, and hasn't for over a week.  Not an extraordinarily long time but usually she emails every few days.  My instincts said that something is not right.  So to "test" her I sent her an email that I was visiting Bangkok and gave her the definitive days I would be there (I actually was planning on those exact dates and was within days of buying the ticket).  No response.

Now I'm not the kind of person you see on those message boards wondering what he should do, what's going on, should I call her and cry like a girl, etc. etc.  I trust my instincts and perhaps she found someone else (or already going out with someone, you  know how it can be in Thailand) or maybe it was something I wrote (which I cannot figure out since I did not write anything offensive and whatnot).  At any rate it's no use mulling over or crying about it, mai pen rai, right?

So after this incident I'm kind of wary now about doing the overseas thing, at least for the time being.  Flying isn't exactly cheap and I don't like the concept of trying to maintain an email relationship and having it fizzle yet again before the next visit.  Now I understand those who say the best way to meet a woman overseas is to move over there or live there for an extended period of time.  That's something I just can't do now.  Anything else is just rushing it or leaving too much to chance. 

Anyways, I was at the local hair salon owned by a Vietnamese couple.  I hadn't been there for a few months, and when I went in today I saw this very pretty girl sitting in the waiting section.  I smiled at her, then when I saw the hair cutter she tells me this is her niece.  And then it kind of came back to me, this must be the lady that the hair cutter was telling me about.  A year ago when she was cutting my hair, somehow the conversation came to whether I was single, and she told me she knew this single girl back in Vietnam, and was thinking of having us correspond (email).  I never did get the email and forgot about it.  The odd thing about this girl was that when I sat down to cut my hair she gets up and walks to some room in the back out of sight.  Throughout the hair cut she drops me hints that she's trying to go to school for a masters degree and get her student visa, and if I knew any schools or other ideas to help her out.  I guess she's a very shy girl.

So I'm wondering if I should give this a shot and how to make my move.  I can go back to the hair salon and give her some forms from a local university, and give her my number (she just came here a few days ago and living with the owners).  I mean, a girl that walks out of the room must be shy or something, I don't know how to approach a girl like that.

[fathertime]

Well Old dude, I don't know how old you really are but if you like the Niece I would say just go right up to her and tell her that you would like to take her out to lunch or something.  Or maybe talk to the Aunt and tell her that you think the niece is cute.  If you have a viable option here in the US then there is no harm in seeing where it leads. 

Email friendships are nearly always precarious.  I would wait it out a little longer and perhaps send her a "I'm concerned about you" email.  I have learned not to   take email correspondence too seriously & personally, although I recognize that it seems you two have spoke often.  Don't get too torn up though, you can always find a different woman if need be.

Fathertime!

[stevjulietb]

Well old dude,  there are many fish in the sea, find one who smiles and makes u smile.  She may be shy, but remember she was taught to be shy and not pushy, bossy, meany and all of the other traits of am women.  Go for it dude, just tell the aunt your interested.

Steveb

[Ray]

Question: You said you've been e-mailing for 5 months but you didn't mention anything about phone conversations. Have you ever called her? If not, why not?? Has she ever given you a phone number?

I'm not saying that this fits you, but many guys will get the mistaken idea that because they have been e-mailing a woman overseas, they have some exclusive rights to her time. So what if she is writing other guys or even dating? Unless you two have an exclusive agreement, you have no right to feel slighted.

Another note on e-mail. We all have computers and can sit down at any time of day or night to do the e-mail/chat thing, but it isn't always that simple for the ladies in foreign countries. If she doesn't have her own computer and Internet service at home, then she's likely using a cyber cafe/computer center. Sending/receiveing e-mails for many of these ladies probably involves a trip into town, waiting in line for a computer, paying by the hour, etc. There are any number of valid reasons why she hasn't been on line for a week and most are not of a sinister nature. Bad weather, family emergency, short of funds, etc....

As for the girl at the salon, you should use the aunt as a go-between. Invite her to lunch if you wish, but include the aunt. Chinese would be appropriate. What I would be concerned about is her immigration status. I would want to know how she got here, which type of visa, etc., and why she is trying to change her status to student after only a few days here. It's "possible" that they are looking for a sucker to marry her for immigration purposes, so get all the facts before anything serious comes up.

[Bear]

I'm with Ray.  Don't read so much into it with the email thing until you can ask her.  I'd give it at least 2 weeks maybe a bit more and see her attitude when/if she returns.  If not be happy you didn't make a mistake and marry her.

When you pick the "foreign" road your gonna see lots you didn't know, expect, understand - I know I did.  Sometimes it can be pretty frustrating because things don't work the way you are familiar with, but they do work.  Pay attention to the red flags not as stopping points but as "pay attention you may have to stop" points.  I know when I first started there was this one lady (a nurse) that looked quite promising (before I met Honey), we chatted quite a bit, but she never sent me a picture and suddenly she disappeared.  Another girl, who was an Engineer, insisted I call her rather that chat but because I felt that was too expensive at the beginning of a relationship I refused till we chatted more - never heard from her again.  I suspect that they met someone more agreeable to their current agenda and I was waiting till I understood it.  Worked out great for me but was sure frustrating at the time.

This is a tough road but the rewards when compared to AWs are really quite superior. Look at you plan and options, maybe where and who you are looking for.  I know my original intersest was China but when I saw the availability and successes in the Philippines and the difficulty I had with meeting ladies and learning Cantonese it was an easy choice to switch.  Plus I almost immediately found a medium to find and communicate with available ladies.  Not sure other than Friendster, Yahoo and Cherry Blossoms what that would be now.

With two exceptions, introductions seem to be the most successful but you don't hear much about that here because they aren't using the resources we are.  I'd say of all the successful Fil-Am relationships I am aware of 45% are military marriages/45% are introductions the rest internet/chat.  So the niece/aunt deal looks like a good choice to give a go.

The Bear Family

[Dave H]

As for the girl at the salon, you should use the aunt as a go-between. Invite her to lunch if you wish, but include the aunt. Chinese would be appropriate. What I would be concerned about is her immigration status. I would want to know how she got here, which type of visa, etc., and why she is trying to change her status to student after only a few days here. It's "possible" that they are looking for a sucker to marry her for immigration purposes, so get all the facts before anything serious comes up.

Hey Old Dude,

I agree 110% with what Ray said!!! Be VERY careful!!! A trip to Thailand might seem very resonable when compared to the legal fees for trying to adjust illegal status or a divorce after she receives her green card!

Dave

[michaelb]

Maybe the aunt was doing the talking because the niece doesn't speak English .....which will also be a big problem if she wants to study here. Unless the foreign student is specifically studying English, she must pass a standardized test. If I remember rightly, it's call the TOFEL test, but a quick phone call to practically any college admissions office will get you the correct name of the test and probably an offer to make an appointment for her to take it (there is a fee, of course). Some colleges do offer an English for the Foreign Student program (or at least their local variation of that title) and being enrolled in that (NOT the Parks & Rec department or local high school ESL class, the courses I'm talking about are a regular full time student schedule and yield regular college credits) is the first step to obtaining a student visa. Of course to even be accepted for that program, one has to at least have finished high school and be able to prove it. The hard part is getting the U.S. Counsolate office to not turn down the visa on the grounds "You look to me more like someone intending to immigrate than study for a year or two and then leave th U.S. " (as happened to my step daughters 2 or 3 years ago). And Ray or William3 probably knows for sure, but I think one has to apply for a student visa while still in their home country. How or why this young lady is here, I have no idea, but as a couple others have already pointed out, if you're going to make a move on her, then it behooves you to know her immigration status and not take up with her (even to the extent of finding a new barber) if things aren't all above board.

[Old_dude07]

fathertime and stevjulietb, I'm going for it but I think I'll kind of involve the aunt
just to keep it safe.  I'm not going to let one potential setback stop my search.  I actually went today to the salon to drop off some school forms but it was closed so tomorrow for sure.  She's 27 a bit young but if she's cool with it I'm cool with it.

Ray, it's interesting you ask if I ever called her and in hindsight I should have but for some reason or another
I never did, as Bear mentions I think at first I was worried about the cost for her but just kind of "settled" into the
email thing.  She did give me her phone number at first and told her to call and I should have.  I also agree about emailing.  I didn't necessarily felt that I had an exclusive right to her time, but I think at a certain point if the conversation reaches a somewhat 'deep' level there's an understanding that you and the other person are "narrowing" it down to each other.  I have no problems with a person emailing several people
or dating others while they are trying to find the right person, but that should be communicated.  I'm not going to lead on someone, email or not, but that's just me.  I agree with the others that it's hard to really read into emails at times, but the way the world uses the internet now, I think emails have become another option such as calling, writing letters, etc.

I also thought about her circumstances, to take into effect that it isn't as easy for women overseas as it is for us to access internet but the frequency of her emails led me to believe that consistent internet access wasn't an issue for her.  But I agree, I will probably give it another week or two, but only in the sense that if she
writes back at all and explains what happened.  But I won't push the issue.  With the advent of the internet this may apply to all women in the world, but I know that in Asian countries the way women let you know they are no longer interested and whatnot is by ceasing communication. 

Dave and MichaelB, perhaps she is here on a tourist visa or something?  I didn't know one had to apply for international student visa from abroad but it makes sense.  I'm not sure of the circumstances but I would like to find out.  Her aunt told me speaks English well. I guess it wouldn't hurt to talk to her aunt and see what's up, I wouldn't want to pass this opportunity up if it's there.  It can be frustrating at times I agree Bear but I won't give up.  I'll see how this niece thing goes and go from there, who knows she may not even like how i look.

[Ray]

She did give me her phone number at first and told her to call and I should have.

O.K., so why don't you call her now and surprise her? Just make sure to pay attention to the time difference.

IF this relationship does ever get back on track, I think it's time to step it up and start making some phone calls. A half-hour or so shouldn't cost you any more than about 4 or 5 bucks with a phone card. Check with any local Asian stores or liquor stores for discount phone cards. Buy the $5 denomination and use them all in one shot for best value.

It's also about time to schedule a trip over to see her but I think you already figured that out.

Another factor to consider: Most of these Asian gals interested in a serious relationship with a foreigner leading to possible marriage aren't going to wait forever. If another suiter shows first, remember that to her a bird in the hand is worth two in the Internet...   

Ray

[Bob_S]

Dave and MichaelB, perhaps she is here on a tourist visa or something?  I didn't know one had to apply for international student visa from abroad but it makes sense.  I'm not sure of the circumstances but I would like to find out.  Her aunt told me speaks English well. I guess it wouldn't hurt to talk to her aunt and see what's up, I wouldn't want to pass this opportunity up if it's there.

It is very likely that she entered on a valid visa, either a tourist visa for the purpose of visiting family or a student visa to study English at some ESL school (Kaplan is very popular for that).  But of course she wants to stay permanently.  As long as she hasn't fallen out of status by letting her visa expire, she's fair game for courtship (as long as you don't get the vibe that she's a green card shark).
If she's an old fashioned kind of gal, you'll definitely need to court her in an old fashioned manner, which means initially relying heavily on her aunt as a go-between matchmaker (that's what aunts are for in the old country!).  The girl will have to play coquettish and shy.  You have seen each other so the first step has already been taken.  The next step is for you to express interest to her aunt to find out more info about her status.  Information about each other will be exchanged through the matchmaker.  It is at this point you should adamantly state that you will not pursue her if she is here illegally or if her visa has already expired.  But if she is still here legally, you are interested in her.  And you'll need to give up some personal info to the aunt (education level, current career, something about your family background, marital status (divorced, widowed, never married, etc.)).  That way the girl has a chance to size you up and back out without a face-to-face confrontation which could be embarrassing (remember the importance of saving face in Far East cultures).  After that, as Ray recommended, lunch or simply coffee with the Aunt included.  Still no promises are made, but if you liked her, you can again ask the aunt's permission to take the girl to dinner.  You will need to pick her up at her family's home where she is staying so they can size you up too.  Bring a gift for her father or uncle and mother or aunt.  Be careful because after that, their family will pretty much consider you her fiancé!  It may seem convoluted to us, but it is only common sense to their culture as a way of proving you are getting a good girl.