An independant woman

[V_Man]

Women are women everywhere. However there certainly are cultural differences.

I used to use dating sites in my own country to find women. It worked well for me in terms of finding someone to date. Not so well in terms of finding someone to stay with.

One thing that always struck me about the profiles of western women was that so many of them would write in their profile that they were an independant woman. I could never understand it. How could they be so thoughtless to write that?

Sometimes, just from their profiles alone, I'd really wonder if they had the slightest idea what was important in a long term relationship. Something they claimed they wanted.

Of course the answer is that feminism taught them independance was a good thing.
However you have to have a very low level of empathy and understanding of meaningful relationships to write that in a dating profile.

Actually I saw some unbelievable profiles. One listed all the hate mail she had received from her interactions with men on the site. There was a lot. Most of it made it very plain that she had not been nice to these guys at all. I guess she figured since she knew she was a victim, her prince charming would realise it too. One made a list of everything that she would not do, did not want and how little time she had. It was so massive I could only assume that she was having problems finding a male prostitue, because I couldn't see what else she wanted a man for.

To be fair to them I never saw a single western woman state that they had a lot of empathy. So there is a degree of honesty there.

Soon I found this really helpful. I could immediately strike them off my list and narrow down the list. Excellent. Thank you independant ladies. I hope you like your cats.

Another thing I very often found in profiles of western women is that even in their late thirties they were still undecided if they wanted children. I hope they like their cats too.

When I went to some Latin dating sites I don't belive that I ever saw a single woman state in her profile that she was an independant woman.

What I did sometimes see is that Latinas wrote that they were not complicated. Now that was probably streaching the truth - who knows. However what it told me was these women were aware what attributes would attract a man who wanted a long term relationship.

[Ray]

 
There is nothing wrong with being "independent".
 
 
What exactly are you afraid of anyway? Cats?
 
 
 
Ray
 
 

[InnocentVixen]

In my first months of searching online, perhaps my first year, you wouldn't believe how many MALE profiles said they were looking for an independent woman, so those girls were probably aiming to get the attention of those gentlemen. I was looking on normal american dating sites though.


Believe it or not, I was also rejected countless times on those sites because the guy did not consider me an independent woman (which is fine since I don't really consider myself one) many more because they said I was "too far away" even when they were in SD so I finally just gave up on those sites and opted for CherryBlossoms since if a guy is willing to go all the way around the world for a woman he should be serious right?... wrong, there are much more serious guys there but there are also a lot of players so girls there need to be careful and not put their guard down.


The thing I noticed about latin dating sites was that it was mostly latinos in the states looking for a woman back home or something like it, so basically the same thing I can find in my own city with perhaps better paycheck so gave up on those too since that is not what I am looking for.


If I ever needed to try again I would stick to CherryBlossoms and Craigslist I think.

[V_Man]

That's interesting IV. This could be a little different in the USA. I don't know.

 Many women after they met me from a dating side would be a little surprised to find that everything I wrote was completely true. Many of them told me that people lie in their profiles. I never understood that either. I know I droped several women once I discovered that they lied in their profile. Only a fool would continue with someone that started out based on a lie. However I was assured that men do it all the time and I believe it. Plenty of men say what they think woman want to hear to get them to go out with them.

Believe it or not, I was also rejected countless times on those sites because the guy did not consider me an independent woman...

You say you were rejected but I'd say you dodged a time waster. Keep in mind that many men don't know what is important in a long term relationship until they see it. They don't spend time discussing this subject and rarely read about it. Also they were taught this is supposed to be a good thing in a woman.

Men don't want a needy woman. Many men don't want a stay a home wife type either.
So it does come down to the definition of 'independant'. However in my view when a woman raised in a feminst society uses the term 'independant woman' it has clear implications.

I think that you can say other things to make it clear you are not looking for a crutch to lean on without claiming to be independant.

[fathertime]

I consider myself rather independent and if wouldn't have minded saying it in a dating profile...i don't see a problem with a woman saying it either, if it is true.  If I were you, I wouldn't take it as a negative thing or feel it is thoughtless. 


Fathertime! 

[InnocentVixen]

Men writing what women want to hear, women writing what men want to hear and then they are surprised when they meet someone that is not a match even if that person was being truthful on their profiles... it only makes sense, that sincere person was looking for the person you said you were not the actual person you are!


I also find it confusing why people lie about certain things and how far they can go with it, I like to think I've been lucky from the stories I've heard like a totally different person showing up because they used someone else's pictures! but yes, I've caught a few lies, it's what a lot of people call "little white lies" and what I call an awful annoying habit that will probably get worse with time.


Though I can be somewhat reasonable, for example not being accurate with height by an inch or so, it's even hard for me to be honest about that one, I am stuck right between 5'2 and 5'3, if they haven't weighted themselves lately, not something I care about, if they consider themselves "average build" when it's really a couple of extra pounds is ok too, at least they are positive, if they have half their hair missing but they list it as brown... as long as the remaining hair is brown that's acceptable too! but from that to saying something reaaaaaallly far from reality is a whole different matter, if they don't live in the real world and they are in denial that is not my problem!


I have no hard feelings for someone that rejects me, I know not everyone is attracted to the same looks or qualities and I know that someone out there must find me attractive, it works the other way around too


I used to be so careful about how I worded things on my profile and try to be as accurate as possible, but part of being compatible is being able to communicate or at least give it a try, sometimes because my english is readable guys will forget it is not my first language and stop talking to me after I said something, it would take me a while to realize what was it, sometimes I never did, but at the end I didn't think I missed out on much since some of the qualities on my list was that he should be patient and understanding, this men obviously didn't have the patience or were understanding enough realize that I could have used the wrong word or made it sound a bit different than intended, but that happens even with native speakers online so there is that!


PS. this reminds me about whitey's dislike words of "mi reina / mi rey" (my queen/ my king) that is mostly used as an affectionate word for a partner, yours seem to be "independent woman" mine are probably something among the lines of those "white lies" I guess

[beginthebeguin]

I_V sez

if they have half their hair missing but they list it as brown... as long as the remaining hair is brown that's acceptable too!

Yeah, some of those dating sites should have a category named 'Hairstyle' and for most of us older gringos,  'combed-over' would be an appropriate entry. 

[V_Man]

I have to admit that since I've always been independant perhaps I place a slightly different meaning on this phrase than other people.

In my mind if you are older than 25 and living in my country, then I am going to assume you have learnt to care for yourself and you provide your own needs. At least until you tell me something to suggest otherwise. In other words I am going to assume that you are not a dependant person unless you suggest otherwise. That has always been a safe assumption for me in my country.  If you are dependant on someone else or the government then I am going to pick up on that immedately, you don't need to spell it out for me.

Hence when a western woman states she is independant in that context, she is telling me something in addition to the assumption above. In my experience what she is saying is not a good thing for a sharing, caring long term relationship.
 In fact in my experience in this part of the world is that when a woman states that on a dating profile, (rather than in conversation) you should not be the least surprised to discover that she is determined to prove that she has 'struggled free against all odds from the male oppression that has prevented her reaching her potential'. Probably which she achieved in womens' studies at university while on a women only free grant from the tax payer which she learnt about from her tax payer funded visit at the womens hospital.

However I take FTs point. Perhaps what she is trying to say is that she is not a needy leech and wants a man for love, sex, intamacy, etc and not for other reasons.

[Brazilophile]

I have to admit that since I've always been independant perhaps I place a slightly different meaning on this phrase than other people.

...

However I take FTs point. Perhaps what she is trying to say is that she is not a needy leech and wants a man for love, sex, intamacy, etc and not for other reasons.

I share your interpretation of the phrase.  She is making clear that she does not need a man or love, sex, and intimacy, she only wants a man for those things.  In my opinion, if a person does not need their partner for love, sex, and intimacy, then that partner is expendable! 

That is my take on women who loudly pronounce themselves as independent women.  They are shouting that things go MY WAY or YOU hit the HIGHWAY!

For a serious romance to be successful in the long run, each partner must view the other as absolutely essential; there must be mutual dependence.

[robert angel]

If you and your partner don't share a sense of mutual dependence and feel that each partner has purposes that support each other, you might as well just buy a cat.
 
I'd like to see how great being an 'independent' guy really feels when you have a small kid and your wife is incapacitated. I had to take care of my first son when he was in preschool and then getting him started in kindergarten, plus I had to keep up the house independently.
 
Boy, was I ever glad when my wife got out of the hospital!!

[Gato4Astrid]

There is nothing wrong with being "independent".
 
 
What exactly are you afraid of anyway? Cats?
 
 
 
Ray

My ex-girlfriend once asked me to choose between her and my cat.  I chose my cat

[fathertime]

I share your interpretation of the phrase.  She is making clear that she does not need a man or love, sex, and intimacy, she only wants a man for those things.  In my opinion, if a person does not need their partner for love, sex, and intimacy, then that partner is expendable! 

That is my take on women who loudly pronounce themselves as independent women.  They are shouting that things go MY WAY or YOU hit the HIGHWAY!

 

Well brazilphile,  you seem to be reading an awful lot into a woman saying she is independent.  Unless your date card is all filled up, why not give a woman a shot before making all the destructive assertions about what you believe her intentions are. 

 
I'd like to see how great being an 'independent' guy really feels when you have a small kid and your wife is incapacitated. I had to take care of my first son when he was in preschool and then getting him started in kindergarten, plus I had to keep up the house independently.
 
Boy, was I ever glad when my wife got out of the hospital!!

Gee robertangle, it sounds like you are whining and fishing for a retroactive reward for doing what you are supposed to do with pleasure and gusto, as a husband!   

Fathertime! 

[Dan]

Gee robertangle, it sounds like you are whining and fishing for a retroactive reward for doing what you are supposed to do with pleasure and gusto, as a husband!   

Fathertime! 

Doesn't sound like that to me. Sounds like someone who is acknowledging the important role his wife played and his relief when she was healthy enough to participate with him once again.

- Dan

[fathertime]

Doesn't sound like that to me. Sounds like someone who is acknowledging the important role his wife played and his relief when she was healthy enough to participate with him once again.

- Dan

I don’t think so Dan, your glasses must be foggy today, it looks like his comment is regarding ‘independent’ guys.  If his focus was about women, then why would he bring up ‘independent’ guys?  A woman in the hospital is the epitome of dependence and to think a person would like to see how an 'independent' guy would react in that situation, seems a little morbid to me.


Fathertime! 

[Dan]

I don’t think so Dan, your glasses must be foggy today, it looks like his comment is regarding ‘independent’ guys.  If his focus was about women, then why would he bring up ‘independent’ guys?  A woman in the hospital is the epitome of dependence and to think a person would like to see how an 'independent' guy would react in that situation, seems a little morbid to me.


Fathertime!

Naww - you are making too much of it. You are correct that a responsible husband cares for his children. Robert is correct that it can be a terrific burden when a person finds themselves the sole caretaker - and - it is a relief when that burden is shared once again.

No need to make any more of it than that.

- Dan

[robert angel]

I'm not going to get in a pissing match here--people like that can keep their bait and malcontent. I am referring to the symbiosis that typically exists in a good marriage--two separate people working harmoniously in synch, filling in for each other as needed--'doing what it takes'. I merely offered one example.
 
I could have gone on and on and referred to responsibilities, love, sex and chores in separate chapters, but I think most folks got my point the first time.

[Researcher]

    I always took what a woman wrote in her profile with a grain of salt. Two main reasons were people often times don't see themselves as they really are and one person's idea of,for example, independent may not be the same as another's idea of it.  I kinda remembered what was written in those self descriptions to see if it matched but I always liked to meet the women I was interested in and go from there.

      Researcher

[InnocentVixen]

I remember talking to guys who you could tell they would skip on reading the profile, some out of laziness as in not even reading the basic information (such as asking if I have children when it was clearly stated I don't) but I find that the other ones that would just read the basics and move from there were pretty decent guys, usually saying they prefer a 2 way conversation and learning about each other a bit more naturally.


I don't know if those guys just got tired of the lies or misunderstandings/assumptions that come from reading a profile but I think it's a healthy realistic approach.


My boyfriend typed one single sentence on his profile "I am a simple man" .... Now that I know him much better, I must disagree, a bit on the laid back side sure, simple? I wish!

[fathertime]

Naww - you are making too much of it. You are correct that a responsible husband cares for his children. Robert is correct that it can be a terrific burden when a person finds themselves the sole caretaker - and - it is a relief when that burden is shared once again.

No need to make any more of it than that.

- Dan

Well Dan, I suppose the crux of the matter we  can probably all agree on.  I found the terrific burden was greatly decreased by other older family members.   


I suppose I just wasn't as interested to see how an another 'independent' guy would suffer with an ill wife, and I don't know why anybody would be.


Fathertime! 

[Dan]

Well Dan, I suppose the crux of the matter we  can probably all agree on.  I found the terrific burden was greatly decreased by other older family members.   


I suppose I just wasn't as interested to see how an another 'independent' guy would suffer with an ill wife, and I don't know why anybody would be.


Fathertime!

FT,

Not everyone enjoys the benefits of having other family members around to support in times of need. That is one of the issues in many cross-cultural marriages - the lack of a family network for the immigrant spouse. If the American citizen, for whatever reason, also lacks a support network - it is only the two of them. When one of those is sidelined, the burden is difficult for the remaining partner.

I think the point of interest may be two-fold. One is that the definition of "independent" may have different meanings in different cultures - AND - that there is a very real consideration of mutual support and interdependence that is, for some couples, quite different from the lives they lived individually.

- Dan

[whitey]

I have to admit that since I've always been independant perhaps I place a slightly different meaning on this phrase than other people.

In my mind if you are older than 25 and living in my country, then I am going to assume you have learnt to care for yourself and you provide your own needs. At least until you tell me something to suggest otherwise. In other words I am going to assume that you are not a dependant person unless you suggest otherwise. That has always been a safe assumption for me in my country.  If you are dependant on someone else or the government then I am going to pick up on that immedately, you don't need to spell it out for me.

Hence when a western woman states she is independant in that context, she is telling me something in addition to the assumption above. In my experience what she is saying is not a good thing for a sharing, caring long term relationship.
 In fact in my experience in this part of the world is that when a woman states that on a dating profile, (rather than in conversation) you should not be the least surprised to discover that she is determined to prove that she has 'struggled free against all odds from the male oppression that has prevented her reaching her potential'. Probably which she achieved in womens' studies at university while on a women only free grant from the tax payer which she learnt about from her tax payer funded visit at the womens hospital.

However I take FTs point. Perhaps what she is trying to say is that she is not a needy leech and wants a man for love, sex, intamacy, etc and not for other reasons.

Same interpretation from me up here in Canada-land, V-man ...

[mambocowboy]

Same interpretation from me up here in Canada-land, V-man ...

same for southern california.

[DNice237]

I feel you on the independent thing. Taking care of yourself and stating your an independent women to me means two different things. I think when woman say this there really saying is "I don't believe in a patriarchy".  It also says to me is "I don't need you". Alot of women claim to be independent until there toilet breaks or they need to change a tire. Patriarchy has it's privileges. Feminism don't like it when men like us "date abroad" because we take feminism power away. A woman can adopt this new concept of "independent women" that doesn't mean family minded patriarchal men will.

[Jeff S]

My boyfriend typed one single sentence on his profile "I am a simple man" .... Now that I know him much better, I must disagree, a bit on the laid back side sure, simple? I wish!

Now you know why a lot of people don't bother reading the profile very carefully if at all. Because what people say they are and say they want is often very different than than what they really are and want. How many women say they want is a "nice guy" yet will bypass the nice guy for the "bad boy" every time - a huge percentage.