Does a divorced American guy need to get an annulment for a PI wedding?

[Veracity]

Guys,

I was just reading an old thread about a guy who was American, Catholic, and divorced. Like me, he had his eye on the Phillipines.

I'm Catholic too and got married in the Catholic church. If I want to get married to a Phillipina in the Phillipines, do I have to get an annulment here in the US?! I'm sure she would want to get married in the PI so that all of her family could attend.

I thought you had to be a Kennedy or something to get an annulment.

[Ray]

Veracity,

A civil wedding in the Philippines would be no problem for you.

But if you want a Catholic wedding over there, then yes, you will probably need to get an annulment from the Church here first. You don’t have to be a Kennedy to get an annulment but it can de difficult and take a long time to get approved, or often denied. Check with your local parish and/or diocese for more info.

I am also Catholic and was divorced here in the States. However, my first marriage was a civil one and I was never married in the Church. In my case, all that was required was permission from the local bishop in the Philippines where we were married in a Catholic Church ceremony.

Overall, the Church in the Philippines seems to be much more flexible on enforcement of the rules than here in the U.S. Also, within the Philippines, some bishops are much stricter that others, so there seem to be fewer hard and fast rules over there.

The first step in planning a Catholic wedding in the Philippines, would be for your prospective bride to bring all applicable documents to her local parish office and start the process well in advance of planning a wedding date. That way you can avoid most of the last minute surprises.

We have another active member (non-Catholic) here who was married to a Catholic in the Church in the States and required a Church annulment before he could marry again in the Church. He can give you much better information based on his experience going through the annulment process within the Church.

Once all of the paperwork is good to go, marriage in the Church in the Philippines is uncomplicated and the traditional Filipino weddings are very interesting and rewarding. I would try to do whatever is necessary to give your bride the wedding she really desires. She and her family will appreciate it forever.

Ray

 

[Dave H]

My US Catholic annulment cost me $500 and took almost 1 year to complete. You do have to meet certain criteria for it to be approved. In the Philippines an annulment would have cost me 10 times that much!

Dave

[Jhengsman]

My US Catholic annulment cost me $500 and took almost 1 year to complete. You do have to meet certain criteria for it to be approved. In the Philippines an annulment would have cost me 10 times that much!

Dave

That would be a civil annulment in the Philippines would it not? For a Catholic annulment in the US wouldn't you add in the cost of a state divorce in a location where cause has to be shown to be fair?

[william3rd]

You cant add the coast of a state court divorce. That comes with the territory. You arent free to marry again without that dissolution. An annulment from the church is worth squat without the civil termination

[Jhengsman]

You cant add the coast of a state court divorce. That comes with the territory. You arent free to marry again without that dissolution. An annulment from the church is worth squat without the civil termination

Unless you married under Sharia law there is no divorce in the Philippines. When are talking about an annulment there it is not just a church tribunal. You are in effect doing a divorce, proving cause and hiring a forensic psychologist to say those reasons were because the spouse was not psychologically able to marry in the first place. At which point you hope the court doesn't still try to save the marriage and the Solicitor General doesn't spike the court's approving decision because he thinks there was collusion when the case was not contested by the ex spouse.

So in effect a Philippine annulment is both the divorce (dissolution) and the "never married" case rolled into one

[jm21-2]

I have worked a bit on a case dealing with this issue and got some advice from a lawyer in the PI. I can't remember all the details but as far as the civil side of things is concerned it gets somewhat complicated. If your ex-wife petitioned for divorce or signed a joinder you may be OK. If you petitioned for the divorce and it was at all contested you're probably not allowed to re-marry in the PI. However, it seems the PI pretty much never looks up records of marriage/divorce in other countries so unless someone stands up and objects at your wedding it doesn't sound like it will stop you from having the ceremony. Don't know if the marriage would be void in the PI though....

If you're already divorced you probably can't get a civil annulment in the US.

[Jhengsman]

I have worked a bit on a case dealing with this issue and got some advice from a lawyer in the PI. I can't remember all the details but as far as the civil side of things is concerned it gets somewhat complicated. If your ex-wife petitioned for divorce or signed a joinder you may be OK. If you petitioned for the divorce and it was at all contested you're probably not allowed to re-marry in the PI. However, it seems the PI pretty much never looks up records of marriage/divorce in other countries so unless someone stands up and objects at your wedding it doesn't sound like it will stop you from having the ceremony. Don't know if the marriage would be void in the PI though....

If you're already divorced you probably can't get a civil annulment in the US.

There is no need for the outsider to get a civil annulment but the total cost for comparison purposes of the church annulment does include the divorce, even if it happened decades before

[Ray]

I have worked a bit on a case dealing with this issue and got some advice from a lawyer in the PI. I can't remember all the details but as far as the civil side of things is concerned it gets somewhat complicated. If your ex-wife petitioned for divorce or signed a joinder you may be OK. If you petitioned for the divorce and it was at all contested you're probably not allowed to re-marry in the PI. However, it seems the PI pretty much never looks up records of marriage/divorce in other countries so unless someone stands up and objects at your wedding it doesn't sound like it will stop you from having the ceremony. Don't know if the marriage would be void in the PI though....

If you're already divorced you probably can't get a civil annulment in the US.

jm,

From what I’ve seen, legally divorced foreigners don’t have any big problems marrying in a civil ceremony in the Philippines. They do require evidence of your legal capacity to marry, usually satisfied by an affidavit issued by the foreigner’s embassy or consulate in the Philippines.

No, the Philippine government doesn’t verify foreign divorces for validity, but relies on the affidavit as proof of divorce. They do not even require a copy of your divorce papers when issuing a marriage license in the Philippines. The US Consulate however, will examine your divorce decree before issuing the affidavit and again when processing a visa application for your new spouse.

A Filipino citizen can be considered legally divorced under Filipino law if he/she was married to a foreign national and the foreign national spouse initiated the divorce in another country. The divorce is not recognized if the Filipino citizen spouse initiated the divorce.

Ray

[jm21-2]

My client was a Filipino who never got US citizenship. Didn't realize it was different for foreigners marrying in the PI.

[Jhengsman]

My client was a Filipino who never got US citizenship. Didn't realize it was different for foreigners marrying in the PI.

My apologies I thought we were discussing a Church wedding in the Philippines.

[Ray]

My client was a Filipino who never got US citizenship. Didn't realize it was different for foreigners marrying in the PI.

That’s what I thought. As a Filipino citizen, he is still bound by Filipino law, which does not allow divorce as we know it. But he could divorce here in the States and it would be recognized in most all other countries besides the Philippines. If he was married to a foreign national, he could not legally marry again in the Philippines unless his foreign partner filed initially.

The thinking of the Filipino law on this is that it isn’t fair that the foreign spouse can legally divorce and remarry while the Filipino partner would still be considered legally married in the Philippines. Thus the provision in the law that allows the Filipino to be legally divorced and able to remarry in this particular case.

Just for info: A Filipino married in the Philippines could receive an annulment in a California court without ever setting foot in California.

Ray

[Veracity]

My apologies I thought we were discussing a Church wedding in the Philippines.

This thread went off track a bit...I think.
What I have gotten out of this so far:
As a guy who was married in the US in the Catholic church.....and since divorced........I think I would need an annulment before I got married in the Catholic church in the PI.

Oh well.....

I hope my future fiance doesn't want a church wedding!!

[robert angel]

Veracity,


I think your understanding is correct and that you should let her know and you or perhaps 'she' should explain the situation to her family. You can still have a big wedding over there, but on the legal end if you are a previously divorced Catholic (as am I) who didn't get an annulment, it'll be legal as a 'civil' wedding there.

My wife still occasionally asks me to look into an annulment with the Catholic church  here in the USA, which I am not really into. I don't want to have old friends from both sides 'digging up old bones', rationalizing why my prior marriage wasn't really valid, taking upwards to a year in the process as we uncover and sling dirt.

Regrettably, I still have some issues with the Catholic church as a whole and the local Diocese in particular, who offered us almost no assistance in avoiding a divorce in my first marriage--not only did our senior priest --now a Monsignor, not feel 'comfortable' giving couples counseling, but the Diocese suggested we drive to a city three hours away if we wanted counseling.


I do  know that my wife and certainly her family, would like us to have another wedding in the Church in the Philippines and I think most Filipinas would want--or even expect, the same, but w/o an annulment, we might at one time in the future have a civil wedding over there instead, wedding gown and all the 'trappings' followed with a reception for the family and friends over there.

I do kind of feel that she and her family were 'shortchanged' by us not doing that, although they've never said anything like that.

I did think it was nice that both our parents and family members wrote letters back and forth, welcoming our marriage and family unification.

[Ray]

I hope my future fiance doesn't want a church wedding!!

I would advise you to mention that fact to any Catholic ladies that you may meet before you get too deeply involved. For some Catholic Filipinas it may not be a big deal but for others it may very well be a deal breaker.

You could at least look into the annulment policies and procedures in your diocese just in case you later decide to go that route.

Ray