Where do I start?

[Dan]

Ah, for some reason I missed that bit of information.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm curious as to whether statistically the results were similar no matter whether the foreign spouse was Asian or Latin or from the FSU? I looked over the survey but can't seem to find that information.

No, you didn't miss it. That was not a question addressed - yet. It is one of a large number of possible questions that might be addressed from analyzing the data further. It just has not been done yet.

- Dan

[Dave H]

Well Ray according to my boss (one of the owners) it isn't a law that is really enforced too much these days.  I guess we invited the mayors of each city to attend the first socials and they welcomed our company to operate in their cities.  According to my boss they have driven some introduction companies out, but as for AFA we have been in good standing over there which is why we are allowed to operate.  As for a written agreement I don't know of any but honestly if it was as big of a deal as you are implying I don't think that AFA would continue to do business there.  AFA is pretty good about keeping things on the up and up in my experience and it doesn't make sense that they would risk any kind of legal ramifications if they weren't 100% sure that it was ok for them to do business there.

ILLEGAL!!! This is a national, not local law, which applies to every last island in the Philippines...high or low tide! It is enforced with zeal! Which means that your company must be bribing local government officials to operate in their Philippine cities. Not very ethical or wise IMHO! Your bosses probably don't care because they can't be arrested outside of the Philippines. But if your bosses, possibly yourself and other employees are discovered on Philippine soil...

A little warning: Filipina feminists monitor various International (Filipina/Foreigner) dating forums and agencies. If they didn't know about your upcoming "Asian (Philippine) Tours" (very likely they have known about it, since AFA is a large operation) they might very well now! Groups like Gabriela love to report these things to the Philippine government officials who support their cause!

SECTION 4. Any person found guilty by the court to have violated any of the acts herein prohibited shall suffer an imprisonment of not less than six (6) years and one (1) day but not more than eight ( 8 ) years, and a fine of not less than Eight thousand pesos (P8,000) but not more than Twenty thousand pesos (P20,000): Provided, That if the offender is a foreigner, he shall be immediately deported and barred forever from entering the country after serving his sentence and payment of fine.  

Dave

[Dave H]

You keep saying the company has a lot of successes, but what does success really mean? How do you define it? Is it meeting a girl? Getting married? Staying married 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Hey jm,

I don't have any stats for the Philippines, but how about some personnal knowlege... I know 10 women who met their Kano husbands through illegal introduction parties. Of these ladies, eight are divorced (all of the ladies have remarried another time or two), 1 widowed, and 1 (with 4 Filipino kids from another man) is still married. The ones that divorced were married from 2-5 years to the foreigner who brought them to the US. The "host" of these parties was fined and booted out of the Philippines. He was last known too live with his Filipina wife in a double-wide trailer somewhere in the US "bundok" (sticks). He is banned from entering the Philippines for life. I believe his wife was also banned.

I think you can save money and just go to a mall in the Philippines to meet many of the same quality women available on illegal tours and parties. They will be the ones "shopping" for a foreign husband. They will smile, talk to you, and probably get engaged on the spot. Most of the good girls who were a better catch are far away by now. Pull out your wallet and you can probably start your own party right where you stand, perhaps move it to Jollibee, Greenwich, or Pizza Hut if you are a big spender who wants to really impress the ladies! I am always amazed by all of the dumbass foreigners in the Philippines or LA who think they are "God's gift" to women as they walk around the mall or hang out at a swimming pool or beach with their female entourage. They will give you a dirty look if you say "hello." I guess they think that other foreigners are competators who may try to steal some of their precious hos. If they looked at their back in a mirror, they would see a huge "$" tatooed to it! I know a number of Filipinas who desperately want to marry a foreigner and will do or say anything to get one. I will let them do it on their own, without any help from me! They are not "typical" Filipinas. There are so many more great ladies here that are not just looking for an easy way to get to America. The guys who marry the desperate ones are probably going to be in for a rough ride.

Also, what is a quality woman? Some guys would probably say a poor village girl who was a teenage virgin willing to marry a guy 20-30 years older would be ideal
 

Often a very bad choice! You can quite often tell poor Filipinas from the bundok who marry foreigners. They are the ones that go to extremes to flaunt their new found "wealth." I saw two such ladies an hour ago at Jollibee. They lighten their skin, dye their hair, wear 6 inch heals, fancy clothes, jewelry, are very loud, and want to be the center of attention, known here as "KSP!" They prefer to ride only in private cars or cabs and not on motorcycles or jeepneys...even though they were probably riding on the back of a karabao or being pulled in a cart or sled behind one a cart a few short years earlier. I have a neighbor who is one such lady. Besides her, the foreign husband is currently supporting her lola, mother, father (who is younger than the foreigner, but quit his job), her kid from a Filipino, an unwed sister and her two kids, her unemployed brother's family, a young school aged sister and brother, etc. I may have forgotten a few more people since that is only 15.  You may get lucky and find a nice lady who doesn't change...but then there are always the family financial problems. Here is a blog from a poor Filipina farm girl who married a foreigner. http://julieta-lifeisfullupanddown.blogspot.com/

Dave

[masonb]

Hmmm.  Very interesting.

[Cbear]

How about a rich, virgin, city girl willing to marry someone 20-30 years older than her?

[masonb]

 ;DIf you could pull that off you are either a miracle worker or a serious pimp. 

[jm21-2]

Haha, if you're 22, a 20-30 year age gap might cause problems.

Take your time, travel, have some fun...girls your age or younger are not particularly ready for marriage. I'm 26 and I wouldn't date anyone much younger than 23 or so. I want a girl with a good education/job who has worked a year or two for a dose of reality...so around 23/24. The Chinese girl I'm dating is 24. If I wasn't looking for a college-educated girl I might drop down to the early 20's.

You can come to your own conclusions as the age topic has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards and there is plenty of information out there. Statistically speaking I would say it is very unwise for people in their teens or early 20's to get married, or to marry someone in that age group.

[Dave H]

How about a rich, virgin, city girl willing to marry someone 20-30 years older than her?

Hey Cbear,

I don't think you will have any problems with the "virgin" aspect.   A "rich" Filipina may seem great on the surface and I hope it will be. But some other guys that I have known have had difficulties with their "rich" Filipina wives. Mostly due to their inability to afford the expensive material items their wive's wanted and/or to hire the household staff the wife was accustomed to while living in the Philippines.  A few were expected to maintain the lifestyle of their wife's entire family, after they had lost their wealth (including buying businesses, resorts, homes, property, and vehicles, paying for lavish parties and vacations, etc.). This also included maintaining the father's past, current and future mistresses and their children.

Dave

[Cbear]

I think statistically Jm is right. But each relationship must be judged on its own merits.

The Philippines is kind of an anomaly, the average age of marriage is rather low there, so the girls are conditioned that they will marry young. Also many girls there marry older men, much older men, and not just foreigners but Filipino men as well. And since their is no divorce there, they take it seriously. Unlike many western woman who think if the guy doesn't toe the line they will just divorce him.

Jm right again, I would not let a 2 year old date a 22 year old.  LOL But we are talking adults here, old enough to vote and old enough to die for their country.

My oldest daughter is 17 now and if she came to me and wanted to date a guy near my age I would have serious trepidation about it. But honestly, if I met him and he was an upstanding man of high morals I would let her date him. By high morals I mean a no sex till marriage, one woman man kinda guy. All this assuming she is 18 when she asks. She isn't dating anyone yet. Daddy still says no !!!

[Cbear]

Hey cbear,

I don't think you will have any problems with the "virgin" aspect.   A "rich" Filipina may seem great on the surface and I hope it will be. But some other guys that I have known have had difficulties with their "rich" Filipina wives. Mostly due to their inability to afford the expensive material items their wive's wanted and/or to hire the household staff the wife was accustomed to while living in the Philippines.  A few others were expected to maintain the lifestyle of their wife's entire family, after they had lost their wealth (including buying businesses, resorts, homes, property, and vehicles, paying for lavish parties and vacations, etc.). This also included maintaining the father's past, current and future mistresses and their children.

Dave

We are already having maid issues. I have learned to just stay out of it. But yes, she expects to have a maid when she gets here. She pretty much acts like an american girl already except for the way she treats men. She has a deep respect. Something AW don't have. She always has money and goes where ever she wants whenever she wants.

The good thing is she will be a midwife here with a masters degree and making 90K a year, she can afford a maid if she wants one.

[Dave H]

We are already having maid issues.

Hey Cbear,

A maid is understandable, especially since she will be working. In the Philippines maids do an awful lot! Many also cook, shop, and open the driveway gate when you honk.    Most of the problems that I have heard of began after the children were born. The wives expected a live-in yaya for each child.

The good thing is she will be a midwife here with a masters degree and making 90K a year, she can afford a maid if she wants one.

That is good!

Dave

[jm21-2]

You know, it's funny. My girl's mom and dad have a large age gap (I want to say 26 years) but her mom was worried because she thought I looked older in the pictures I sent. She didn't want her daughter marrying an older guy and was relieved when I got there and looked young. She did divorce her husband but then they got re-married a few years later. Just goes to show you that even though large age gaps may be accepted they are not necessarily desirable.

I'm not going to re-hash the arguments about marrying very young women here, so I'll let interested persons look for the various threads on the topic. Suffice to say the divorce rate for those who marry in their teens is astronomical.

[Cbear]

Suffice to say the divorce rate for those who marry in their teens is astronomical.

Something like 85%. But that is american marriages under 20.

Asian marriages, even Asians who are Americans have a much lower divorce rate regardless of age. With Filipinos being the highest at about 18% and Vietnamese the lowest at about 8% This was from 2000 census data

[jm21-2]

And also take into account that Christians have the highest divorce rate while Atheists have the lowest.

There are lots of statistics out there to consider.

It also depends what data is being considered: percent of the population that is divorced (a lower rate could indicate that there are fewer divorces, or it could indicate that there is a high re-marriage rate). Marriages compared to divorces (doesn't usually make sense, but very commonly used), or a study (could be a small number of individuals and thus not particularly accurate).

Then you have to also figure in socio-economic factors, religion, education, etc., for that ethnic group.

Anyways, it's hard to get good statistics for divorce rates and no one seems particularly interested in getting accurate information. They either want to get the highest number possible or the lowest. From the data I've looked at the only two factors that I would consider solid are if a person is very young when they get married, or if the household they are in is poor during the marriage.

[Cbear]

I think it has more to do with economics in the marriage. Most young people just do not have the income earning potential to afford a married life style.

I had a lot of friends get married right out of high school, most of them are divorced. But not all.
My high school crush got pregnant at 17 and married the father. They are still married.

My high school GF who I dated 4 years from the time she was 14 to 18, dumped me and got married at 19, she was divorced exactly one year to the day. She then married again within a year and that only lasted a couple of years.

Last I heard she was looking for me on classmates.com. RUN RUN RUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not getting anywhere near that train wreck.


EDIT:  My high school crush is the girl I would have left my high school gf for. Just thought I should clarify that.

[Cbear]

And also take into account that Christians have the highest divorce rate while Atheists have the lowest.

Almost true, Christians don't have the highest but it is true that atheists have the lowest, according to the same 2000 census data. This is taken from across all ethnic lines if I remember correctly.

I am trying to find this study again so I can link to it. JM, if you have it please link it. I am sure it would be good reading for everyone here.

[jm21-2]

Here is one article: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm . There have been several studies done.

So according to this study at least, it's not all Christians just certain groups that are higher.

Christian divorce rates:
Non-denominational **    34%
Baptists    29%
Mainline Protestants    25%
Mormons    24%
Catholics    21%
Lutherans    21%


Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion    % have been divorced
Jews    30%
Born-again Christians    27%
Other Christians    24%
Atheists, Agnostics    21%


I know my aunts and uncles all married in their teens, got divorced in their teens/early 20's, then got re-married in their mid-20s or so and have been together since.

You have no life experience really at that point (although you probably think you do) and just aren't ready to plan so far ahead in the future or make big decisions like that.

The wealth of the household during marriage, as I mentioned as well, is certainly a big factor. One of the two I'd call reliable. But the only reason I really see it intertwined with youth is because young people aren't thinking of things like "how much future earning potential does my GF or BF have," and "what kind of money do I need to live an enjoyable lifestyle when we're 26 and have two children?" And who the heck could answer those questions when they're in their teens even if they had the forethought to ask them?