Hi, I'm new here, and would like to introduce myself

[eddymilo]

Hi,

I'm Eddie, and it's nice to meet everybody here...

I just returned from the Philippines last June 17, after a month stay in Leyte. I went to meet a lady I was chatting with via the internet, and I would say that it went well. I have some reservation about saying that if there was a "love connection", but I don't know if this is due to a personal fear of trust, or if my hesitancy is validated. To tell you, I really care for this lady (her name is Maria) and she seems at this point very sweet and sincere, and she is quite possessive; I mean, she doesn't want me to leave her. I apologize if this comes off as boasting, I am not doing that. I mean this in all modesty, and if I can say, it is one of Maria's finer qualities. I have not had a dialogue with her about any issue of trust, because I am afraid of saying something stupid or insulting and maybe losing a wonderful lady in the process. So, if I may, I would like to request some advice on how to approach this subject.

I should lay in some more background details...

Maria was eight months pregnant when I arrived there to see her, but she disclosed this before I came, so it was no surprise. This was our first meeting in person. When I came down the pier in Ormoc to meet her (I took a Supercat from Cebu), I was struck by how beautiful she is. She smiled and I was smiling too... She brought her cousin along, and we all went to dinner.

The father of her baby is a German man, I have never met him, only what she has told me. And she seems to want to keep this all secret, for obvious reasons, that is, not to deceive but to protect her reputation. I'm sure most here on this board know that an Filipina's reputation suffers a little if she becomes an unwed mother.

The thing that gives me a pause is that her cousin, who is married, had a fling with this German man not too long before Maria did. I mean, maybe I have nothing to worry about, but I don't know. Am I bad to question Maria's version of events about this, because, well, it all just seems a little weird. I apologize if I am out of line, because I really could love Maria. She is really nice, it seems... But I am completely in the dark about who this guy is, or if he will show back up in her life (and he should, for at least to be a father), but I'm worried that maybe he and Maria would carry on a love affair in my absence. I could be wrong, and I am not jealous or anything in the negative sense, I am just very guarded.

On June 19, two days after I arrived back here to the States, she gave birth to a little baby girl.... I was very happy for her!

So, I guess my question is this: How do I work through this? Do I just play it by ear? Do I follow my heart?

I would welcome any advice or comments from anybody out there.

Thanks!

Eddie

[Jeff S]

Hi Eddie and welcome to the board. Sorry I don't have much advice for your situation, except to say that you have some sincere soul searching to do. I wouldn't hold my breath about the German guy coming back and suddenly being daddy to a child he's fathered. If he's been having flings with two cousins, who knows how many other third world girls he's sown his wild oats with. I wouldn't waste my time thinking about what she, the German guy or her cousin might do, just worry about what YOU should do. Only if you can accept her child as your own, should you proceed IMO. If you can do this then go ahead and continue courting her, but be doubly alert to red flags. (spend some time browsing the archives.) She is hurt, embarrassed and probably desperate, I'd bet, because it's not a little hard on a Filipina's reputation, it's a HUGE blow to her reputation. No Filipino guy would associate with her, so she almost has to move out of the country to have what most people would consider a normal family life. I'd also make certain that she's not hiding from you the fact that she was married to the German. As I understand it, it'll make things infinitely more complicated, since divorce is illegal in the PI.

As "daddy" of a beautiful Asian daughter I did not father, I can tell you that it can be just as rewarding as having your own children, but only if you approach it with the right state of mind. I've seen situations where the step father didn't approach it that way and think the child would have been much better off being raised by a single mother.

- Jeff

[daytrader]

Hi Eddie,

This is joke, right?  ...or...

1>  a plot line for a new soap opera about "MOB" topics
2>  you are really Papi, just masquerading as a new poster
3>  there is infidelity within the family you are dating and you are signing up to be the latest sugar daddy
4>  you work for the State Department and want to do some personal 'foreign aid' for the Phillipines
5>  Your life is too boring, so you want to be around a person that makes, emotional, short term decisions without considering the consequences.  You also have a 800 credit rating and you want to be around a woman that will ultimately divorce you and ruin your credit rating because you consider it "unfair" that you are doing so well financially. 
6>  You want to spread some of your "foreign aid" to immigration lawyers that will also bill you for having the German father surrender all rights to the child $10,000)  + go thru the immigration, marriage and adoption lawyer bills as well (maybe $25,000)....then after she gets her green card and you buy a bigger house and have everything set, she will find another lawyer to take half of it away + child support. 

Warning:  I've met many Fillipinos when I was in NorCal, they can play you just as well as any North American Babe!   

Or, talk to some relatives and some friends that have good marriages and family and ask if they would have cold feet about proceeding further. 

A word to the wise, bad choices lead to bad consequences for anyone involved that has made a bad choice. 

If you insist on going further, tell her tonight when you call that you will wait a year for her to be comfortable as a mother and for her to take care of the father situation (at her own expense) then you will be glad to resume the romantic relationship. 

Try to find a better situation that doesn't require you to be a sugar daddy right off the bat, ok bro? 

DayTrader

[william3rd]

My advice- find a woman with a lot less baggage. This one doesnt sound like quality at all.

[eddymilo]

Hi,

Thanks for your input, guys... I do need to do some soul searching... I don't want to commit, but yet I don't want to walk away, either. Maria is very sweet, but at this point, it's hard to trust given the information I have now, although it pains me to say that. I don't want to drag her name through the mud, and I hope I am not coming off that way.

daytrader:

I know what you are saying, and although you meant it half-jokingly, I have the same fears that you are right about the sugar-daddy scenario. I get the impression that she is very scared to be alone, and I really can't blame her for feeling that way, given Philippine cultural attitudes toward unwed mothers. She tells me that she loves me and she would never leave me if I want to marry her, which makes me wonder if it's desperation on her part, but then, I immediately feel guilty for having such thoughts. I know this is weird, and to tell you, I wrestled with the decision to post this situation here, because I do feel a little embarrassed and a little dumb about this. But I just don't know, and I appreciate the opportunity to be able to discuss this with members that have more experience courting a lady from other cultures.

Thanks daytrader for your advice; I think I will give it time to see if the relationship can go anywhere.

Jeff S:

Thanks... Maria says the German man doesn't like to get married, only fool around as you suspected. I get the sense that Maria is a little gullible, and I don't really see her as overly devious, which makes me feel bad about questioning her integrity. From what I gather, The German sweet-talked her (making "bula-bula", is how it's said there in the Visayas), and laid a line on her about how lonely he is, etc. You're right, I should make sure that she was not married to him, which is another reason I should give this whole thing time.

And william3rd:

Believe me, I can hear you loud and clear, but maybe I should wait a little more before I discount her as you've said. Thanks for your input.

Eddie

[Bear]

Eddie,

Welcome to Planet-Love.

Well let me get to the point.  The Philippines is a 3rd world country.  Poverty abounds and security is formost on a girls mind.  Having someone to take care of her and make sure she has a roof over her head and food in her belly   A few other family needs might be in the background like pressure from her parents to get married and help secure their autumn/winter lives. 

For this girl to have given in to a guy who has been making his way through the family ladies means they all kept it well hid or they're all lacking a few marbles.  Well I guess the guy could have been a pretty gwapo dude with a lot to offer who really swept them off their feet, but so many being so stupid?  Huge red flag!

In my few years dealing with Filipinas I have found some so devious that I was in awe of their mechanisms to achieve their goals.  Desperation and poverty added with a now miscalculation of a baby and not being married coupled with th Kanos sense of "save the maiden" compassion.  Its almost like a movie plot that you know the end off.

I personally got involved in 4 guys on this board (and others) who made similar decisions as you are approaching, unfortunately not one of them are still with that decision and several are in bad financial consequence.  I do know of another guy who did come out of it with a nice wife but it just seems that in a country of so many moral virgins who are desperate for a good man to love and give her self to properly, the guys on these boards find the sluts who use them and spit them out totally unvaryingly.

Do what you will but note...
1) Your compassion is an obvious weakness to be exploited - hide it.
2) Send no money!.  Period!  Never for any reason!  If she ask you have found a user.
3) Wait! Wait! Wait!  At least 2 years or more.  This girl is obviously desperate and a quickie decision from a stupid compassionate Kano might be path to your years of sleepless nights and days of depressing poverty and loneliness.

My wife is the girl I depend on to raise my children with the proper moral social characteristics and traits.  I trust her completely on these issues and have observed her and many of her friends have all the desires of your lady but wait.  She said to tell you to "run".

The Bear Family

[Ray]

Hi Eddy,

You sound like you are in love and it scares you to death. I can understand the feelings you are going through and I think they are perfectly normal.

It sounds as if you really don’t know a whole lot about this young lady’s background. If she doesn’t want to discuss it with you, then you really have no right to know unless you are in a committed relationship and planning marriage.

If it’s that important, then just tell her straight that it’s important for you to know her history. But first you will need to divulge all of your past to her, including any deep dark secrets, if you expect her to open up. If she still won’t discuss it, then you’ll just have to decide if you can handle a life together with dark secrets between you, which some guys can handle O.K.

I think you are using the right head and you have a good attitude about this. Just slow down and give it lots of time. What you need to know about her as a person will come out soon enough.

Like Bear said, it’s very important to keep money out of the equation entirely at this stage of the relationship. Don’t try to support her financially or shower her with expensive gifts. That way you’ll be able to see her motives more clearly.

Be her friend, make her laugh, write letters, phone her, and visit her again when you can. Time will tell you what you need to know to make an informed, rational decision.

How many times have you been to the Philippines?

Ray

[eddymilo]

Hi Ray,

Yes, you're right, I am a little scared (or more aptly, quite a bit scared) about matters of love in general, because a guy should always question if it's right and if their love is true, and I guess you just have to find the answer with time. I want true love, and if Maria is the one, I am sure willing to love her for always. My conclusion is that I will just wait and give her time, and also myself the time to discover for ourselves if there can be love between us.

I certainly respect her if she wants to keep her background undisclosed at this early point in our relationship, although it makes me "rip my hair out" with all the questions I have for her. Until this point I have refrained from asking her about it, because she has said that she has told me everything, and I want to believe her. I think it would prove detrimental to berate her about it, and would only serve to drive her away from me if I interrogated her about it. I do believe I am missing something about her that's very important, But I am sure that it will come out with time. I also recognize the importance of knowing about a person's history before committing to a relationship. I just don't want to offend Maria... It is hard for me to know or learn to communicate with a Filipina (or with any woman), and I am very willing to learn how.

I will definitely take your and Bear's word of advice and not send money. This would be prudent.

Ray, I have been to the Philippines five times. This trip from May-June 2007 was number five, and my last jaunt was eight years ago.

Thanks Ray for your input; I really appreciate the different perspectives.

Hi Bear,

I can't help but to look at your marriage and be a little jealous. I wish I could know true love like that! Also Bear, do you think there may possibly be a chance that Maria is not a scammer or game-player? At this point, I am open to any possibility, although it makes me feel so bad inside to think Maria is a scammer because I don't know this for sure. I want to remain open-minded, and I am willing to give it some time.

Thanks everybody for your time, it really helps to discuss this!

Take care,

Eddie

[Jeff S]

Any chance she's NOT a scammer? Your choices aren't Mother Theresa or Al Capone. There are infinite shades of gray in-between. There are few women here on planet earth that don't do a few things to enhance their desirability - that's what make-up, high heels and push-up bras are all about. Are these things subtle lies? well maybe - but they're not on a par with "me love you long time - do everything you like - just send money." What you have to figure out with every girl you date is what her motives are and where her moral boundaries are to get there. If it's to have a loving nuclear family, then you're on the right track - if on the other hand she's out to get a green card, take you for all the money she can and disappear in the land of milk and honey, well that's another story. A better question is to ask you, what are her motives? I'd bet they're the former, not the latter, but that's something YOU have to figure out. We'd be just guessing since we've never met or talked to her. The next question you have to figure out is where her moral boundaries are to get what she wants. Is she willing to lie to get them, use her sexuality? Well, if so you have to figure that that will never change. Your love won't transform her from a liar and a cheat into an angelic person full of honesty and modesty. It doesn't work that way. Again, we'd be just guessing. That's what every one of us who is happily married on this board had to do, whether we married a virgin or a single mom. That takes face time - lots of it. You'll never be able to get it out of her putting her through a battery of questions like a job interview or a detective trying to trip up a murder suspect. It's what she DOES that will reveal her character, not what she SAYS.  Just my 2 cents worth.

- Jeff

[Bear]

My marriage?

In many ways my marriage is more than just awe to me.  How I ended up with such a beautiful young lady when my life was such a nightmare is near beyond comprehension?  How and why it's that way I think I hint a lot by the topics I choose to post on.

My wife was one of those "good girls".  One of those you see in school that doesn't want to have anything to do with a guy that might want to get too friendly with her too soon.  She had lots of friends (?) from both sides of the track (meaning both good and bad, rich and poor).  Her motivating aspects of life when I met her was to get a good job and move away from home where she was the "ATE" (oldest sister, mostly expected not to marry and stay home to take care of Mom and Dad.  Someone who has the same authority in the family as Mom and Dad).  Her family of 8 was impoverished like about 40% of the families in the R.P.

[An odd observance I'd like to add in here is the "good vs. bad" girl image.  From Honey has told me and I have been able to actually confirm all the good girls (rich and or smart) got pregnant before marriage or never got married.  The majority of the "bad" girls (not so good in school and/or poor) married before having children.  Of my wife’s "good girl crowd" only she was a virgin on her wedding night.  How odd is that?!]

I was interested in Honey because all the girls I was communicating with the time all "loved me" after knowing them only a few days to a few weeks.  Of those (before Honey), only one seemed worth the time but about 4 months into the relationship she when nuts on me when her sister stopped paying for her "Nursing College" and wanted me to pay for it?  I had already surmised that she was communicating with other guys so I wasn't convinced that I should send my money into a potential black hole and cooled the relationship (later on the other guy dropped her and she started trying to communicate with me again - Honey sent her packing quite rudely).  There was another stewardess who thought "tampo" was the most important tool in a relationship (Arggggg!).  Another Filipina was only 16, her dad was the Chief of Police in a major city there, was planning our wedding a week after we met!  Honey on the other hand didn't care about marriage and such things, she had a plan to be independent from everyone.  I had to court her and prove my worth to her and convince her I was worth marrying.

Of all the things "beyond" my control that probably influenced my marriage the most is the fact I call "the worst Filipina trait", the constant bombardment of "opinions" by friends and family on every aspect of a Filipinas life.   Honey had the 2nd highest score in the 150+ year history of her college on her entrance exam and was immediately given a full scholarship.  She was assigned to a boss/counselor in the scholarship program that treated her like a germ on a slave.  Still Honey endured and was on her way to be the valedictorian of her graduating class when she met me.  I had a chance to met most of her classmates and observed their shock that "Honey" could be engaged to anyone much less an American because they all thought she was pangit (ugly)?  It just proved to them that Americans always take the "pangit and used girls (pregnant or with children)". 

In addition her family thought so much of me and so little of her that they actually supported an effort by our chaperon (the evil cousin) to take me away from her - like there was a chance I'd want to have anything to do with that horses-ass looking monster!  Can any one comprehend a parent telling their children they are stupid and ugly?  I heard that all the time!

Basically I'm saying my wife had very little self-esteem.  Absolutely no support from her family and even her closest friends yet very, very intelligent and, in my opinion, gorgeous.  To this day I am in shock when I hear them call her "ugly" and "stupid", these are her family and friends?  Honey says they're just being honest?!  And I hear this going on every time we get together with other Filipinas, even here in Houston.

What did I offer?  I made it clear that I would promise the girl I married 3 things.  My goal in life would to be to see her smile; that I'd come the first time she called - every time; and I'd spend 100% of my time considering her (the last is from the "Five Types of Marriage" pamphlet I found in a church).  And then I resolved I would do what I said. 

What did I ask for? I told all the girls I communicated with that I wanted a stay at home Mom who would promise me the same above.

Honey proved to me instantly that if I suggested we “do it”, she did it. Even when it was contrary to her family and friends dictates.  I got that poor girl in so much trouble when we first started out that I really wondered how I'd be so stupid and not pay more attention to some of the difference between our cultures?  Later found out it was because Honey wanted me to defend her against her parents and life situations and agreed with the things I was attempting to do.  The infamous "all girl parties" I'd call her and serenade her so all her friends could her.  Jealousy was rampit and many openly showed it to Honey.

She refused all offers of money, period - only bad girls would accept it she would tell me.  I found ways around those customs that allowed her to have things I could provide honorably like a cell phone.  After it was decided that I would come to visit her, I sent her money and told her to buy "me" a cell phone for when I got there and she was allowed to use it until I did (my phone bill was hitting $5-600/month then).  I paid for her college by hiring her to make me a tapestry of our family crest.  This allowed her to drop out of the scholarship program where she was being abused mentally and physically.  None of these things made her look like a "bad" girl but rather a good partner and a smart business person.

Now that we're married and even before I compliment her and praise her at every chance.  I let her know I appreciate all her and I let her know how gorgeous she is to me.  I even let her play her game of when some individual is "honest" with her by saying I don't approve of that individual and suggest she stop associating with them.  Which she usually does and smiles.  (Some stupid honor thing I still haven't understood).  I'm not bossing her around but making the decisions she thinks I need to make so she doesn't have to deal with it.  Filipinas call it the "simple life".  Basically where the man asks her opinion and, with or without that opinion, makes a decision in her favor and then communicates it to her.  Its like telling a child that they have to eat chocolate ice cream.  But it makes you look like the boss and her like an obedient wife?  Ha-ha, sure!

I guess also if you had seen the 24 years, 10 months and 16 days of nightmare I had in my previous marriage you'd see why I so thrilled now.  Having a good wife that really shows she cares about me and tries to take care of me (as I do her) makes so many other aspects of our life easier to deal with.  Its like the difference between positive and negative reenforcement.  Both work but one makes you feel good and the other hurts.

To assume I have no problems situations in my marriage would be a big mistake.  What would life be without them?  But they seem so much easier to deal with that with my ex-AW.

The Bear Family

[Ray]

Eddie, I agree with what I think Jeff was saying, that it is unrealistic to expect 100% honesty from a woman. He also made a good point about the real test of her character being in her actions, not her words.

As far as being scammed, that mostly happens to guys who have never met the lady in person and have no experience in the Philippines. You know, where the ‘lady’ comes up with all sorts of sad stories in an attempt to separate you from your money.

But since you’ve been there before, and spent a month with this young lady, I would think that you should have a pretty good idea of whether or not she’s just playing games and/or trying to scam you.

As far as the importance of knowing her history, I think general facts about her past are reasonable questions to ask (places she's lived, jobs she's held, educational background, etc.). But knowing all the gory details of her past love life wouldn’t be important to me.

My primary interest would be in knowing her character now, not about all the mistakes she has made in the past. I think if you can learn to accept that she has some flaws, as long you are satisfied that she is a good person overall, you will feel much more at ease. Just keep your eyes open and focus on the important character traits and attitudes.

You mentioned some trust issues so perhaps there were some big red flags waving in front of you. If so, pay attention and don’t dismiss your gut feelings. Again, I think time will answer most all your questions.

Ray

[Ray]

 "ATE" (oldest sister, mostly expected not to marry and stay home to take care of Mom and Dad.  Someone who has the same authority in the family as Mom and Dad).

Hi Bear,

I have a little different perspective on the meaning of the term "ate".

From my experience, "ate" is generally used not only for an oldest sister, but also as a term of respect for any older female family member or relative, and quite often for any older friend or acquaintance.

I think the idea that the oldest sister is expected not to marry is possibly true for past generations, but definitely not a widely accepted concept now.

I think the term "manang" in Visayan would be interchangeable with the Tagalog term "ate".

Where is Tess or any of the other Filipino members who are the real experts here? 

Ray

[Bear]

Being a "ATE" doesn't mean being "required" to stay home just that some of the time the responsibilities of taking care of family situations prevents marriage.  Kuya is the male version of the same responsibility - the older brother as I am now called.

Manang is the Cebuano or Visayan version of the word ATE.

I could be wrong but I definitely have an intersting observation of a few 'Ates'.  Seems they didn't marry at a younger age and ended up being "homebreakers" at a later age.

But I do agree and I know quite a few ates who are married.

The Bear Family

[travelingin2008]

I am new here so hopefully I won’t step on anybodies toes. I can see possible over looking the fact that someone is pregnant. It happens and pregnant women are not bad people. What I can’t accept is the fact that she is pregnant by a man that slept with her married cousin. That means she knowingly slept with an adulator and that shows very poor judgment. Chances are that is not going to be the last of poor decisions and you may end up suffering from them.

Steve