Planet-Love.com
Latin International Dating Forums => Latin -> General discussion => Topic started by: Chris F on February 23, 2012, 11:20:39 PM
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In taking a moment to reflect abou the posts here ten years ago and today, I have come to following conclusion.
Then - Majority of posts were focused on guys who actually made trips down to South America and were sharing their experience here so others could benefit.( I know I did!!)
Now- Majority of posts focused on Cyber Novias and the posters eventual break up with their cyber novias. ( double yawn)
Maybe when the economy really turns around we can return to "then"
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How many wife-hunters do you feel are actively out and about today? From the USA
Also in the last 10 years, allot of new tech has come into play, video chatting has replaced e-mails and SMS texting, Facebook, social networking has allowed us to become connected with one another’s lives with a lot more easy, and less awkwardness.
I think internet speeds, and connectivity has become faster and more affordable to many women in third world countries, so developing relationships via internet is more personal than before.
I agree with you visit as often as you can, nothing can take the place of real human contact, and many of the men who choose this route may not have the money or time to make many trips down south.
My question to you sir is, what value do you place on using this “social internet tech” to develop a real relationship when there is little physical contact between the two?
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Chris -
I would have to agree with you about what seams to be fewer guys making trips to actually MEET a women in person. M4 does make some valid points about the whole "connectivity" issue, in that it does change the communication aspect these days.
Still, the reality is one has to get on a airplane and GO! Not only the first step, but to follow that up with multiple trips a year, or of course if the women can come to visit. Some guys make a trip, or a few, then they think that they can "maintain" a REAL relationship virtually. That is someone living in a fools' paradise.
A few guys that I have known, that made it happen, ALL traveled a minimum three times a year. ALL worked their azzes off so they could shift their workloads so when they did come they stayed two weeks to a month. I know that is not possible for many, or most, to do. That though is what guys did to MAKE it happen.
Some sit and dream about what may be. If they are not going to take action, if they do not have, or make, a plan that they will put into action, then that DREAM is only a cartoon.
Micky
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I tried the internet thing for a while before I actually got off my ass and went. I will admit that I had to first learn that the "cyber thing," regardless of how much it has evolved, is ultimately just virtual reality. I can't say I haven't seen it work in a few rare cases, but most of the times when two people finally meet after months (or sometimes even years) of chatting online, the relationship is nothing like they both imagined, and it eventually fizzles out. There's usually some initial resistance to the realization that there just weren't any sparks when the two people finally met in person. I'd imagine it's difficult to admit they've spent a significant chunk of their lives in a relationship based on nothing concrete...just illusions built from imagination. If anything, I'd go first, then try to maintain a relationship virtually.
My advice to any gringo considering this option has always been If you can't go at least 3-5 times a year to visit her before actually bringing her stateside, I'd stick with gringas. But to each his own.
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In taking a moment to reflect abou the posts here ten years ago and today, I have come to following conclusion.
Then - Majority of posts were focused on guys who actually made trips down to South America and were sharing their experience here so others could benefit.( I know I did!!)
Now- Majority of posts focused on Cyber Novias and the posters eventual break up with their cyber novias. ( double yawn)
Maybe when the economy really turns around we can return to "then"
There is no doubt that Planet-Love has provided, and continues to provide, valuable support and assistance for untold thousands of folks involved in looking for a life partner from overseas - just as it did you.
While your 'conclusion' made singular attribution to an economic consideration, there are many other factors that might be affecting your conclusion - not the least of which is your particular mindset and what it is you find important among the posted materials here at PL now that you have been married for some time.
- Dan
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I know I sound like an old lady... but men aren't what they used to be, perhaps is because I am old fashioned but I envy my mother and grandmother, men that had their act together will seriously look for a wife down here back in their days, that includes men from the US, this are men that are still with their wives and made their 1st (or second) marriage their last regardless of how the women turned out... and no, they were not all saints, but they obviously didn't see their wives as disposable goods they can trade for a new model as soon as they tire of them, they didn't ask for a test drive, they would actually value a family oriented lady with good morals.
The ease of access just seems to make people lazier and since they are not taking much risk by giving it a try and chatting with someone online they end up wasting each other's time, some are just scared and will disappear when they realize meeting could actually happen, some others are paranoid and they look for an excuse to convince themselves it's not real, it is sad.
When I joined this forum I remember reading a lot of trip reports and while colombianas were brought up often in topics there were men looking in other places or open to it, if you think about it a lot of the guys that don't make the trip are focused on colombianas because it sounds safer to them since it's a path used so many times before, but not even that helps them make up their mind to actually get on a plane and go, that should tell you something about their personalities.
If money was really the only thing stopping them plenty would give Mexico a try, so money is not that much of an issue if they are so hellbent on getting their "exotic bride" one thing I have not read often in all my years here or in the archive... is someone actually talking to a lady who already has a visa and good english skills just like BG and I... wonder why.
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If money was really the only thing stopping them plenty would give Mexico a try, so money is not that much of an issue if they are so hellbent on getting their "exotic bride" one thing I have not read often in all my years here or in the archive... is someone actually talking to a lady who already has a visa and good english skills just like BG and I... wonder why.
IV, I've dated women like that in Colombia and Mexico, and I meet others quite often in Brazil, Panama and Honduras...but you make a VERY good point. I do however have to bring up that there are not many women of your's and BG's caliber that are actively looking for men outside of their own countries. Recounting a recent experience of mine while in Bogota on this forum brought out everyone's red flags simply because it was quite different from what the average gringo is use to encountering. I myself made an untrue assumption.
I don't think anyone can deny that most women in Latin America that are fluent in English are very well educated. Everyone here knows that in Latin America that usually means her family is well off. This would also explain why the same young ladies have the means to obtain a U.S. Visa and travel to the United States. From my experience, these women usually have little to no interest in leaving their friends and family just to be with a man from another country. In most cases, they would probably be placing themselves in a worse financial situation by leaving. While they might live like princesses in their native countries, there aren't many wealthy men from the U.S. and Europe that could maintain her lifestyle wife hunting SOTB. Neither of them have to search outside of the place they're from to find what they want.
Do not forget that you and BG are the exception. Intially, the primary motivation of most of these women is to improve upon their quality of life. True Love, successful marriages and children are just the eventual biproduct of that alterior motive.
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I don't think that's true at all. I believe that it's often the men that are mostly bottom fishing when they travel overseas. They're looking for a poor store clerk with a kicking face and body who'll be soooo grateful to have a gringo Prince Charming to rescue them from a life of toil and bad men. Look at how many guys on this board completely reject educated women thinking that they'll end up spoiled princesses demanding huge shopping budgets and servants when they arrive in the US. I've gotten into flame wars numerous times about just that subject.
Women from all walks of life are open to meeting men from anywhere. If you're a classy person, you have your choice of classy women. If not, then, well, maybe not. While IV and Brazilgirl are certainly way above the average, it's not that unusual to find educated, middle class, English speaking women in Latin America, or anywhere else in the world, open to dating and marrying foreign men. You just don't find them drinking and dancing in nightclubs that cater to American tourists.
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Absolutely right, Jeff!
(IV and BG are still exceptional though ;))
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How many wife-hunters do you feel are actively out and about today? From the USA
Also in the last 10 years, allot of new tech has come into play, video chatting has replaced e-mails and SMS texting, Facebook, social networking has allowed us to become connected with one another’s lives with a lot more easy, and less awkwardness.
I think internet speeds, and connectivity has become faster and more affordable to many women in third world countries, so developing relationships via internet is more personal than before.
I agree with you visit as often as you can, nothing can take the place of real human contact, and many of the men who choose this route may not have the money or time to make many trips down south.
My question to you sir is, what value do you place on using this “social internet tech” to develop a real relationship when there is little physical contact between the two?
Maritime,
The "social internet tech" is extremely useful and valueable. It's how I first made contact with my wife before visiting her in Peru about a month later.
What I see "Now" in regards to the posts here are guys who discuss about different internet sites to meet women, and than details about their internet contact with these women BUT that is as far as it goes for many of them.
They are not taking the next step which is to actually travel there.
The plane has never gotten off the ground.
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If you're a classy person, you have your choice of classy women. If not, then, well, maybe not.
That sounds little egotistical; one does not shop at Wal-Mart to buy “Prada” or “Gucci”. The very idea that a man would travel to poorer countries in search of educated refined women; is hard for me to accept giving the reality and facts of life. Can it happen YES, does it happen YES, sure. But generally speaking the odds are against it, for allot of the reasons stated above. Again what I looked for in a woman is
Attractiveness
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Tenderness
Connection both physical and emotional
Family values
Work ethic
Humble and realistic
Education; money; job; wealthy family, those things would not matter, because those things in a country like Colombia are mostly inherited from family. One has to remember that “poor” is not a choice, but sentence from birth in Countries like Colombia, generally speaking of course.
Most men speak from experience about “wealthy Latin women” the stereo types are out there, as I would not seek out those qualities I would not mind being with one.
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That sounds little egotistical; one does not shop at Wal-Mart to buy “Prada” or “Gucci”. The very idea that a man would travel to poorer countries in search of educated refined women; is hard for me to accept giving the reality and facts of life. Can it happen YES, does it happen YES, sure. But generally speaking the odds are against it, for allot of the reasons stated above. Again what I looked for in a woman is
Attractiveness
Kindness
Integrity
Honesty
Tenderness
Connection both physical and emotional
Family values
Work ethic
Humble and realistic
Education; money; job; wealthy family, those things would not matter, because those things in a country like Colombia are mostly inherited from family. One has to remember that “poor” is not a choice, but sentence from birth in Countries like Colombia, generally speaking of course.
Most men speak from experience about “wealthy Latin women” the stereo types are out there, as I would not seek out those qualities I would not mind being with one.
Does that mean you don't believe you can find all those traits in a classy, refined, educated, employed, middle-class woman?
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maritime04, Where does 'can she cook' fit in your list. jajajajajajaja. It's number 7 on mine. jajajajajajajajas
Like your post though. ;)
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Presently neither of us can cook, but we had some great times in Medellin, trying to cook and learning when we began living together. As my wife says i am the only when she knows who can burn chicken on the outside and leave it raw on the inside.
Good question
Classy and refined are objective, and it’s more of “to each his own”, having wealth does not (too me) mean you are "classy" or "refined" but it creates the opportunity to learn those qualities. I value education greatly, it shows personal accomplishment however I would not thumb my nose down on any women from any country like Colombia for not being educated, or going to college. Those opportunities to further your education just are not there, yes one can push and shove to accomplishment but unless you grew up in that environment and have made those accomplishments yourself, save the judgment.
Yes you can find those qualities in anyone, wealthy or poor, what I am saying is simple, I did not travel to Colombia expecting to find educated women, whom are wealthy attractive employed with all the opportunities you find in the western world, I also do not thumb my nose down at women who have these things or do not have those things. I dated a few middle class estrato 4 women in my time, it did not work out for more than a few reasons, and some had those qualities others did not.
What we are now talking about is personal preference, and the choice’s we make when trying to find a wife or partner, there is no right or wrong answer only discussion…
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Hi Maritime,
Thanks for clarifying. Maybe it's my bad English, but I could almost understand from your post that you thought it was impossible to find those traits in a woman that was not poor. I agree with you that class and refinement don't come instantly with money.
As for opportunities, I don't have a deep understanding of how things work in Colombia, but I live in a poor part of Brazil. My dad's family didn't have any money, it was just not part of his reality since he was from a village where they ate what they planted, fished and hunted. He wanted to study, so he came to the city and worked very hard. He used to cut grass (not with a machine) to pay for a technical course so he could learn how to fix cars. Then he looked for a job at the motor workshop of the university he wanted to attend. He studied hard and got accepted. Once he graduated, he was invited to give classes and they paid for his masters at the best university in his field. He just never did his PhD because he thought he was too old and tired to learn English, but despite that he was the cathedra professor for two disciplines. He retired about one year ago, and now when I look back at his history and I see all the great engineers that were his students, I feel really proud.
I agree that things here are not as easy as in a first world country. But my dad (and even our ex-president Lula) are the living proof that they are not impossible for those who work hard. I don't believe it's just luck.
Professors don't make a lot of money in Brazil. I went to a public university. They are the best in Brazil, but it's very hard to get in. I had to study hard to get in and even harder to get out. And all of that while working. And now I have a job that provides me the opportunity to, for example, spend my vacations in California.
I don't think I'm a 10 or super hot, but I got my share of "hola mamacita!" and "can I buy a drink?" when I was in the US. I learned from my parents that honesty is the only way. I think I'm somewhat classy and refined (Well, maybe not while I'm eating king crabs or korean bbqs, right Jeff?). I love my family and I can't wait to have my own. I work hard. I'm affectionate. I can even cook, love to do it! And now that I met her in person, I can say that all that and more apply to my friend IV. Well, maybe after that it will be hard to make you believe I'm humble and realistic... But I feel bad when I read here that women like us should not be taken in consideration just because we can speak English, are educated and have visas.
Maybe with this change in economy, why not think about meeting in the middle?
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He kind of confused me too. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that he means he's not expecting to find educated and/or English speaking women in Colombia, yes, he knows that some of them exist, but not expecting any of them to be interested in him...although if he found one that was, he wouldn't automatically say "no" to her......at least I think that's what he's trying to say.
Now, there are guys who only go after the poor and uneducated, either because they think they don't have what it takes to win or keep a "high class" woman, or because they think they can manipulate and/or dominate them......either along the line of thought "she was so poor before, she'll have to be grateful to me for helping her" or (even worse) "she'll be defenseless, no English, doesn't know our ways, doesn't know what rights and protections she has, no friends here to help her out.....so she just better not give me any ^%$#*!"......I'm by no means saying that Maritime falls into that category, just that that category does exist.
Some guys probably are intimidated by you. However, in my opinion, you and IV, being educated, intelligent, already speaking English and already having visas would each probably be an excellent catch for some guy smart enough to appreciate you.......in fact, if I were 30 years younger and not already married.... ;)
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In taking a moment to reflect abou the posts here ten years ago and today, I have come to following conclusion.
Then - Majority of posts were focused on guys who actually made trips down to South America and were sharing their experience here so others could benefit.( I know I did!!)
Now- Majority of posts focused on Cyber Novias and the posters eventual break up with their cyber novias. ( double yawn)
Maybe when the economy really turns around we can return to "then"
Hey evil ChrisF!
I think the 'in love' cyber novia posters are all chain yankers, at least I hope so! :D [size=78%] [/size]
Fathertime!
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Look at the demographics of a country like Colombia, and then ask yourself
What are you more likely to find? An abundance of educated, attractive employed women who own their own cars?
Its simple math, if you want college educated wife you go to an environment that breeds higher education, and provides opportunities for it.
If any man thinks he can push around a Columbiana because he has money, has another thing coming to him….But I agree those types of guys are out there, but they mostly go to Asia. (Generally speaking)
Let me make it clear
I would not expect to find an abundance of college educated, wealthy women in a country like Colombia, I would never look down on a women for not having a job or a college education either, I also admit that one can find wonderful women, whom have jobs, cars and money ect… I already give you guys a list of the things I look for in a woman, and I know what I have to offer, and money is sadly low on the list, but it is there, I call it security or steady job but you get the idea…
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I dunno BG, pretty classy the way you were handling those chopsticks - way better than most gringas. You made up for it with the cracked crab though. ;D
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The ease of access just seems to make people lazier and since they are not taking much risk by giving it a try and chatting with someone online they end up wasting each other's time, some are just scared and will disappear when they realize meeting could actually happen, some others are paranoid and they look for an excuse to convince themselves it's not real, it is sad.
I think that overall, people today are lazier about how much time and energy they want to put into developing a relationship and then lazy again in maintaining a good relationship once they have one. We live in a world where many of us get and have come to expect, instant gratification. Once we get it, we tend to look elsewhere for a another dose of it.
The internet has expanded exponentially as it reaches more neighborhoods all around the world. Before the internet, when you met someone, it typically involved other 'real people' besides you and him or her, people who if they didn't know the two of you, they knew OF you--and you were aware that your behavior could have reperecussions. You might damage your reputation and you might see a person you treated badly and/or their friends and family down the road. You were more careful and probably minded your manners more. Contrast that to all the people who want a sex rush via webcam today. I sit here laughing, imagining what might have happened in real life dating if after a date or two, I asked my date "Would you show me your boobs?" "OUCH" would probably have been my next response....
I think a lot of us put too much empahsis on physical beauty on-line to the point where it becomes the first determining factor, even determining if we're even going to read a profile or not. No--before the internet, we weren't any more inclined to give real frogs and toads a second glance as boy friend or girlfriend material, but with less choices out there then and a different 'format' of seeing them if you will, we looked--we 'dug' a little deeper and were more likely to see things in people--including important, desirable personality characteristics that really mean a great deal. It was all more 'real' and we took more time per person.
The internet changed that a lot. I think we live in a world today where growing up and living in a single neighborhood isn't as common, where our socializing with friends, romantic relationships as well as in broader economic and ecological aspects, (no thirty years in one job, then happy retirement and disposable products not worth repairing being everywhere) we think things overall are naturally more disposable--that that's 'just the way it is' today--and consequently, we're always ready to 'move on'. On the internet, you can have a thousand so called 'friends' in a hundred nations--people you've never even heard their voices, much less seen them in real life.
I remember my older son having a "Ferris Bueller moment" when in 10th grade, he told me he'd like to do something dumb and hilarious in school. I told him they could and probably would kick him out. He said: " Dad--I have hundreds of Facebook friends at school and they'd all be on the front steps of the school protesting for me if they tried that". I said "Son--you really are delusional--they wouldn't risk getting kicked out". WE all are delusional sometimes---we all sometimes want to believe what we want to believe and on-line relationships are no exception.
In on line dating, you can quickly become excited, even infatuated with someone and then have them utterly disappear without explanation. There's a whole lot of 'playing around'--as people 'play the field'. I have said that in on-line relationship seeking, its real easy to feel like you're just one 'cyber potato chip' in a huge bag and that members of the opposite sex (assuming you're not gay--and probably even if you are) will find you to be tasty for a little while, but soon find another person--another 'chip' they think might be better, untill they're going through bag after bag, leaving people stratching their heads and wondering "what the hell happened there?" Often they assume that's how it's done and begin behaving much the same way.
There's always been 'shopping around' but it's become different in the last 15 years or so, with on-line activity. People don't take the time and work that developing strong relationships require that much any more. Where in the past, when fights and disagreements would be 'worked out' and couples made stronger for it as they tested 'for better or worse--for richer or poorer', now people are more inclined to just quit and move along to someone and something new. All too often, they repeat the same behaviors and get the same results.
And so it goes....
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I know I sound like an old lady... but men aren't what they used to be, perhaps is because I am old fashioned but I envy my mother and grandmother, men that had their act together will seriously look for a wife down here back in their days, that includes men from the US, this are men that are still with their wives and made their 1st (or second) marriage their last regardless of how the women turned out... and no, they were not all saints, but they obviously didn't see their wives as disposable goods they can trade for a new model as soon as they tire of them, they didn't ask for a test drive, they would actually value a family oriented lady with good morals.<<<
I dunno BG, pretty classy the way you were handling those chopsticks - way better than most gringas. You made up for it with the cracked crab though. ;D
B.G. and I.V. DEFINITELY add a lot to P-L. Some of you folks know I like music a lot, some of it old and obscure, some of it new, edgy and obscure--really all kinds of music. But corny as I and it may be, music from 1930's and 1940's has a certain wisty, romantic appeal to me. It reminds me in someways of the values and charm that B.G and I.V. have a great deal of and are kind enough to share here.
While they're intelligent and modern women, in someways certain elements in these old songs reminds me of them--their some might say 'old fashioned values'--and I dedicate these songs to 'our gals' and hope their next USA visit is an Eastern Seaboard trip--we have room for them!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6meY6DG9TUE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6meY6DG9TUE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EJjosetQI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EJjosetQI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uroFy3gp9kg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uroFy3gp9kg)
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I happen to think that Colombia is a great place to find a classy, educated, hardworking, honest, affectionate, sexy woman who would make a great wife and mother. It's obvious from BG and IV that Brazil and Mexico have the same possibilities, and I've heard good things about Peru as well.
My wife is all of those things, except I probably wouldn't define her as "classy" in the sense of being worldly and sophisticated, super poised and knowing how to act and dress for all occasions ... she doesn't have those life experiences and is more down to earth and simple than that.
We spent the evening until 2am last night with another couple from Barranquilla (my head still hurts), and I would definitely put her in the "classy" category. They both come from good families (she's a lawyer) and she could outclass just about any woman around here, but she can also play a mean game of Parcheesi, teach me how to say psuedo swear words in Spanish like "yierda", and have a few beers with the boys.
My best friend has been going to Colombia for about 8 years now, he makes a good living and has a lot of flexibility in this job, and he only dates sophisticated, "high class" women. He's had a couple long term relationships with doctors, and his current girlfriend (I think he may finally get married this time) is a very classy and successful woman. She's from Bogota, in her early thirties, an engineer, and travels all over the Americas for her work.
So, I think if you, as the man, have the means, desire, and courage to attract these kinds of women, there are a lot to chose from. Maybe not the same percentage as in the "first world", but they are certainly out there and not too hard to find. Guys like Utopia Cowboy have done it, and probably several others on the board. Someday soon, someone will get smart and scoop up BG and IV too!
When my wife and I were just friends exchanging emails (ok, I was starting to fall for her at that point), I remember getting one in which she told me that she owned her own house, was renting it out for income, and was only a few years away from having it paid off. I have to tell you, I was pretty intimidated for a couple days after reading that email. I know how big an accomplishment that is for someone to do in their early 30's here in Canada, but it's much more difficult and unusual in Barranquilla. So I went to bed thinking ... damn ... what do I have to offer this woman? Why would she ever want to move here to be with me? She could have anyone she wanted in her own country! Good thing I got over that ...
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Cris
I agree that economy has a lot to do with it. As for Colombia, 10 years ago the peso was something like 2900 to the dollar. Airfares were a comfortable $400 from most anywhere in the USA. There were multiple agencies charging $300 for unlimited citas with lots of really attractive women. Lots of guys going down, so for non Spanish speakers, there was a good group always to get help from.
Today
Peso-1800 on a good day
Airfare-$800 is kind of the norm now(double)
Few agencies and the ones left charge a ton for services, IE Jamie $1500 average.
Internet has taken the place and I imagine that many men have 0 intentions to ever travel. They just enjoy the Virtual hunt.
Myself if I were single today, I would have to either take many less trips or take longer to save enough $ to be able to go do a 10 day stay and the budget would still be tight.
In March I have my 5 year wedding anniversary and 5 years ago I could get to Quito for under $500. Now the average is $1000. So I feel the economy is the #1 factor that has less guys actually going for a real visit . The upside is that the ones going are generally the serious ones and less of the recreational guy going down
KB
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You're absolutely right Whitey, class has zero to do with how much money daddy has and everything to do with accomplishment. Looking for an educated person who has made something of herself means having a better partner in life. Isn't that what marriage is all about - the two of you doing much better together than each individually? Why handicap yourself with someone who can't make it over there. Think they'll have more success over here? Proving themselves capable of handling life, no matter what the circumstances says a lot more about their character than hours of verbal promises. No matter where in the world you go, there are classy people along with plenty of classless ones. Of course to keep such a woman around, you have to have that level of character yourself.
[size=78%] [/size]
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"Looking for an educated person who has made something of herself means having a better partner in life. Isn't that what marriage is all about"
I am sorry i thought it was about affection, and love. Trust and faith fullness, and having a connection...WOW i feel pretty stupid i married for love!!!!
I am not disagreeing with the exceptions to this or that, I too have met lottery winners in my time, and I am just puzzled why one would travel to a country of poverty in search of the 10% elites? I personally did not care if my girl came from money or no money it was not an issue or a perquisite to begin a relationship.
This nonsense about class, and refinement reminds me about the struggle many Colombians have about being accepted as “human beings” by their wealthy countryman…
I understand the republican propaganda about “making it” despite whatever obstacles are in front of you, but save the judgment for the afterlife….
The delusions we build in our own mind are enough obstacles in life, I know for certain no marriage or relationship can be giving the edge in success because of money, or college education, or class. This depends on the people involved and the commitment they have to one another, that my friends can be found in any estrato…
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In taking a moment to reflect abou the posts here ten years ago and today, I have come to following conclusion.
Then - Majority of posts were focused on guys who actually made trips down to South America and were sharing their experience here so others could benefit.( I know I did!!)
Now- Majority of posts focused on Cyber Novias and the posters eventual break up with their cyber novias. ( double yawn)
Maybe when the economy really turns around we can return to "then"quote]
If one goes back about a year in the trip reports section it does seem like there are less trip reports, less agency trip reports and way less success stories--at least that's the impression that I get.
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Republican propaganda? Ah you mean that old concept that working hard gets you success in life. Yeah that old lie. Well, I saw Titanic and now I see the light that those in steerage are all good hearted salt of the earth poor only by circumstance of their birth, while those on the promenade deck are all evil villains stealing their filthy lucre off the sweat of the worker's brow.
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Hard work doesnt guarantee anything, not even a good result unless you add some intelligence, skill, opportunity and yes alittle luck....
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I know I sound like an old lady... but men aren't what they used to be, perhaps is because I am old fashioned but I envy my mother and grandmother, men that had their act together will seriously look for a wife down here back in their days, that includes men from the US, this are men that are still with their wives and made their 1st (or second) marriage their last regardless of how the women turned out... and no, they were not all saints, but they obviously didn't see their wives as disposable goods they can trade for a new model as soon as they tire of them, they didn't ask for a test drive, they would actually value a family oriented lady with good morals.
I totally agree with this. Modern culture is rotten and American culture is the rottenest. The men are just as bad as the women. America still does have a few decent men, but they are the ones who don't fit in to the culture. These are the guys that foreign women should be looking for if they want a stable marriage.
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I totally agree with this. Modern culture is rotten and American culture is the rottenest. The men are just as bad as the women. America still does have a few decent men, but they are the ones who don't fit in to the culture. These are the guys that foreign women should be looking for if they want a stable marriage.
well mschimidt, I don't entirely disagree with all that you say but lets explore what you are saying here. what exactly do you mean in the area i highlighted? what is wrong with your average joe-6pack or some guy wearing a suit and going into the office everyday? why should a woman NOT be looking for them too?
Thanks,
Fathertime!
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well mschimidt, I don't entirely disagree with all that you say but lets explore what you are saying here. what exactly do you mean in the area i highlighted? what is wrong with your average joe-6pack or some guy wearing a suit and going into the office everyday? why should a woman NOT be looking for them too?
Just by the way you responded to me, I can tell that you don't fit perfectly into American culture. After all, your response seems like a respectful disagreement/question. A normal American man is incapable of this. He ridicules all that he disagrees with and has too closed mind to ask any questions.
There is a good movie called "Mail Order Wife" that shows what is wrong with American men. The average American man is sexually desperate and this has made him dishonest, unreliable, unstable, and confused. I discussed some of this in my post The Problem with Modern American Men (http://www.*Unapproved Link*.org/The-Problem-with-Modern-American-Men-tp6263281p6263281.html).
We live in a world of rapidly declining morals which affects both men and women and makes it increasingly hard for decent people to find each other.
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fschmidt, those links don't work
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... but men aren't what they used to be, perhaps is because I am old fashioned but I envy my mother and grandmother, men that had their act together will seriously look for a wife down here back in their days, that includes men from the US, this are men that are still with their wives and made their 1st (or second) marriage their last regardless of how the women turned out...
Yup sounds like you're talking about Mitt Romney's relatives down in Colonia Juarez...except for all the poligamy of course...
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fschmidt, those links don't work
I guess the moderators here broke those links. I assume they are American men, illustrating my point.
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Nope. No mods broke your links. Try again. We'd like to see what you're talking about also.
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Just by the way you responded to me, I can tell that you don't fit perfectly into American culture. After all, your response seems like a respectful disagreement/question. A normal American man is incapable of this. He ridicules all that he disagrees with and has too closed mind to ask any questions.
There is a good movie called "Mail Order Wife" that shows what is wrong with American men. The average American man is sexually desperate and this has made him dishonest, unreliable, unstable, and confused. I discussed some of this in my post The Problem with Modern American Men (http://www.IntoleranceCentral.org/The-Problem-with-Modern-American-Men-tp6263281p6263281.html).
We live in a world of rapidly declining morals which affects both men and women and makes it increasingly hard for decent people to find each other.
Well Fschmidt, I was hoping you could explain a bit about where you are coming from, regarding joe-6 pack or the average middle management type fellow. It seems to me that it is hit and miss, there appear to be quite a few decent enough guys out there for the ladies, but most of them are gone for the ladies by the time they hit 30-35, I think that is also true of the american ladies. seems normal though, good ones get snapped up quick, that seems like a normal market in action!
Fathertime!
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Nope. No mods broke your links. Try again. We'd like to see what you're talking about also.
Come on, do you think I linked to "IntoleranceCentral"? I think you need to check again with your mods.
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Well Fschmidt, I was hoping you could explain a bit about where you are coming from, regarding joe-6 pack or the average middle management type fellow. It seems to me that it is hit and miss, there appear to be quite a few decent enough guys out there for the ladies, but most of them are gone for the ladies by the time they hit 30-35, I think that is also true of the american ladies. seems normal though, good ones get snapped up quick, that seems like a normal market in action!
To be fair, I am not sure how much I have dealt with joe-6 pack. My life in America was in the rat race and I was certainly surrounded by rats. And on the internet, I have seen a consistent pattern of American men being the worst posters on forums. So maybe I haven't met that many joe-6 packs in either place, I don't know. What I do know is that I am much happier living in El Paso where most people are Mexican than I have been living anywhere else in America. But I would say that I also like the Americans here in El Paso, but I just assumed that they weren't typical Americans.
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Come on, do you think I linked to "IntoleranceCentral"? I think you need to check again with your mods.
Hi Fschmidt,
I even tried to type www.intolerancecentral.org and it didn't work... Maybe there is something wrong with the domain.
BG
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To be fair, I am not sure how much I have dealt with joe-6 pack. My life in America was in the rat race and I was certainly surrounded by rats. And on the internet, I have seen a consistent pattern of American men being the worst posters on forums. So maybe I haven't met that many joe-6 packs in either place, I don't know. What I do know is that I am much happier living in El Paso where most people are Mexican than I have been living anywhere else in America. But I would say that I also like the Americans here in El Paso, but I just assumed that they weren't typical Americans.
Well fschmipt it appears that the real link you would like to post is not permitted here but let’s discuss a couple things.
1. It appears that you have had some experience with american business type men, so can you tell me specifically why they are bad for a woman…what is wrong with them?
2.[/size] You mention that you haven’t had much interaction with ‘joe 6-pack’ types…that is a large segment of our population so if you truly haven’t had any experience with these types of guys you should consider not making sweeping statements regarding American men!
As I mentioned earlier, I’m not seeing this society as a war between men and women…I see plenty decent men and women and also quite a few that don’t interest me…I just assumed that was normal. Am I missing something?
Oh and I'd be curious what it is you like specifically about the behavior of the men in El Paso, you also singled out the Mexican men as meeting your approval. What is it that they are doing that you feel more american men should be doing?
Thanks!
Fathertime!
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It is a forum/blog where he and a few other guys post. maybe the domain name expired or it have been taken down for some reason.
I remember reading some of it a few month back after he said that he have never meet a decent American woman.
I do not know his views on American men and would also like to know. We already know some of his view on American women which are:
He is allergic to American women.
American women make his blood boil.
He have managed to avoid living among American women for most of the last 20 years.
He have no American women friends.
If you put the best woman in the world into mainstream American culture, she will become a vile bitch.
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It appears that you have had some experience with american business type men, so can you tell me specifically why they are bad for a woman…what is wrong with them?
They are simply bad people; selfish, dishonest, and completely lacking in integrity. They aren't the kind of people that a decent person would want to have a personal relationship with.
2.You mention that you haven’t had much interaction with ‘joe 6-pack’ types…that is a large segment of our population so if you truly haven’t had any experience with these types of guys you should consider not making sweeping statements regarding American men!
I said I am not sure how much exposure I have had. I have to generalize based on my experiences. I have lived in America for quite a while and what I have seen is that the quality of American men that I have dealt with has steadily dropped in my lifetime.
As I mentioned earlier, I’m not seeing this society as a war between men and women…
I agree with that. Since both are terrible, they are made for each other.
I see plenty decent men and women and also quite a few that don’t interest me…I just assumed that was normal. Am I missing something?
Either we are seeing different things or we have different standards. I have never met a decent Aemrican woman, my age or younger, in my life. And decent men are increasingly rare.
Oh and I'd be curious what it is you like specifically about the behavior of the men in El Paso, you also singled out the Mexican men as meeting your approval. What is it that they are doing that you feel more american men should be doing?
Mexican men are hardly ideal. Mexican men are also selfish, dishonest, and lacking in integrity, just like American men. The difference is that they aren't self-righteous about it. In other words, they won't turn nasty just because someone disagrees with them. This makes them tolerable to deal with.
Modern culture is a moral cesspool and only those few religions that resist contain really decent people. I have met decent people among Hasidic Jews and Orthodox Christians. I suspect that Anabaptists and Muslims could also be decent. America used to have a great moral culture, but that is long gone.
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They are simply bad people; selfish, dishonest, and completely lacking in integrity. They aren't the kind of people that a decent person would want to have a personal relationship with.
I said I am not sure how much exposure I have had. I have to generalize based on my experiences. I have lived in America for quite a while and what I have seen is that the quality of American men that I have dealt with has steadily dropped in my lifetime.
I agree with that. Since both are terrible, they are made for each other.
Either we are seeing different things or we have different standards. I have never met a decent Aemrican woman, my age or younger, in my life. And decent men are increasingly rare.
Mexican men are hardly ideal. Mexican men are also selfish, dishonest, and lacking in integrity, just like American men. The difference is that they aren't self-righteous about it. In other words, they won't turn nasty just because someone disagrees with them. This makes them tolerable to deal with.
Modern culture is a moral cesspool and only those few religions that resist contain really decent people. I have met decent people among Hasidic Jews and Orthodox Christians. I suspect that Anabaptists and Muslims could also be decent. America used to have a great moral culture, but that is long gone.
Fschimidt,
I was able to find your website. I find it to be very good and full of decent information. I was able to link to some eye-opening other sites through your site. I do have one question though, is that you on Youtube with those videos? You may know which ones I'm referring to, ramzpaul...if that is you the one video I saw was VERY good and you speak really well.
Fathertime!
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The mentioning of the youtube video "jolted" my memories - I now remember his site and it is up & running (I just checked).
I did read his piece titled "My Guide to Life"? He also writes very well.
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I just got a private warning about my posts. I assume I will be banned soon. (I am quite used to being banned from forums, so nothing new here.)
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Can someone explain me why did Fschmidt got a warning about his posts?
I see a bunch of nonsense posts daily here and no one gets banned for that. If he is going to be banned simply for posting a link, I'll be happy to leave the forum too.
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BG,
I'll bet there's more than meets the eye here and that given time, we'll find out what's going on 'behind the scenes' in the open forum.
I don't feel as if we're being treated as children or with heavy hands--the intrigue's a bit interesting as it plays out.
I don't know why members here who couldn't view the posts initially, then later on viewed them, haven't shared the actual live links--is it really 'taboo'? Didn't someone here who viewed it claim it's " very good and full of decent information"?
That's just another interesting facet of this. Regardless of how this plays out, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
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Can someone explain me why did Fschmidt got a warning about his posts?
I see a bunch of nonsense posts daily here and no one gets banned for that. If he is going to be banned simply for posting a link, I'll be happy to leave the forum too.
BG,
As he stated - he is quite accustomed to being banned. I explicitly told him the violations of the PL Terms of Service. Rather than comply, he has decided to make this defiant post. So be it. He is now banned.
- Dan
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Robert, reading his site, I do not find it good nor full of decent information - just the opposite. Reading his site makes you wonder why was he even here on PL.
I say that he writes very well as I wanted to quiz him on something. :-X
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BG,
As he stated - he is quite accustomed to being banned. I explicitly told him the violations of the PL Terms of Service. Rather than comply, he has decided to make this defiant post. So be it. He is now banned.
- Dan
Thanks for replying, Dan!
Perhaps I should study the ToS.
BG
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Thanks for replying, Dan!
Perhaps I should study the ToS.
BG
Yeah, after you finish drinking every last drop out of that cup in one go. ;D
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Thanks for replying, Dan!
Perhaps I should study the ToS.
BG
BG,
Yes, everyone should read the TOS - though it is really just common sense. In the case of fschmidt, he runs a website containing highly-charged political materials that have nothing to do with the theme of PL. He has been addressed, repeatedly, through PM's which he ignores. Rather than address the questions/issues maturely, he opts to draw attention to himself by becoming a spectacle. Well, he has now had his 'moment in the sun' here and he can move on to some other site to promote his 'agenda.'
For that matter, our member JimD is also silenced for the moment. It seems he elected to take my post about defiance out of context and was intending to make an issue of it - so at least for now, JimD can find another venue.
The bottom line is that PL is here for the purpose of educating folks on the topic of cross-cultural relationships and marriage. We are NOT here to be a political megaphone - we are not here to fuel a bunch of unnecessary drama. We have a simple purpose and those who wish to abuse PL by using it for reasons other than its intended purpose will, sooner or later, find themselves seeking another venue. Those who remain will find PL, as it has always been, the premier source of information and support for anyone who is sincere about finding a life-partner from a foreign land.
- Dan
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Maybe a good time to say a big THANK YOU to Dan and all of the Mods. I appreciate the open board and the opportunity to participate. My own feeling is that I do not own (pay anything), nor do I have to put up with the problems that a board entails, and I am happy to follow the few rules that are asked of posters. I can only assume that Dan and the Mods get too many PMs from individuals making comments and complaints about all manner of crap.
THANKS DAN AND ALL THE GUYS WHO MODERATE - I APPRECIATE YOU ALL VERY MUCH
Micky
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Yeah, after you finish drinking every last drop out of that cup in one go. ;D
After she finishes every last drop of that drink, she's going to have to REALLY go! :o
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After she finishes every last drop of that drink, she's going to have to REALLY go! :o
Bob, I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing.
Thanks for the comments Micky.
- Dan
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Yes, I definitely appreciate the work that Dan and the mods do to keep this site running too. This is the only site of it's kind and quality left on the net for Latin America as far as I know.
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Yeah, I said it on private but I want to say it again too. Thanks to all the mods for taking care of PL for us! <3
And I special thank you for putting up with my hot latina blood sometimes.
(It was just coffee in the cup!!! >:( )
BG
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I think alot of people become cyber-daters and to me that is a mistake. Don't get me wrong the internet, cell phones and other technologies are great. They can open doors and connect you with people but in the end I found this technology is only a tool. It can help alot but IMHO, nothing beats good old fashioned face time. Interacting with someone on the internet can give the illusion of knowing someone better that you think you do. While again, it is a great help I would not rely too much on it as far as really getting to know someone.
Researcher
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BG, just for info, you wouldn't be allowed on fschmidt's forum because females are not allowed.
He pops in here every now and then and rants on and on about how worthless American women are and how all of our wives are doomed to become evil bitches if we bring them to the USA and expose them to the worthless, evil American culture.
After reading some of his crap, I think the guy is need of some serious psychiatric help.
Ray
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BG, just for info, you wouldn't be allowed on fschmidt's forum because females are not allowed.
He pops in here every now and then and rants on and on about how worthless American women are and how all of our wives are doomed to become evil bitches if we bring them to the USA and expose them to the worthless, evil American culture.
After reading some of his crap, I think the guy is need of some serious psychiatric help.
Ray
Thanks Ray,
I wasn't defending the guy. I was just annoyed that I see some other posters flooding the forums with nonsense drama, attacking others for no reason and nothing happens.
I remember some of the caca Fschmidt said here. He obviously doesn't like women. Watching his videos confirmed that. My gaydar blinked and beeped.
BG
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It's sometimes hard to see the difference between unfair censorship and 'keeping the house in order'--the 'house' being P-L.
I think the Moderators do a pretty good job. They're not appreciated nearly enough. When you get folks who have really extreme, exclusionary views and they don't respond to requests for moderation or show respect for others having the right to their viewpoints, something's got to give.
I think the same holds true when members routinely attack or belittle other members, regardless of what the member says, or try to roil things up and create unnecessary dramas. I'm not talking about things like Republican versus Democrat differences--things like that are pretty cut and dry by nature. Ongoing personal vendettas are a diffrent animal altogether.
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I was just annoyed that I see some other posters flooding the forums with nonsense drama, attacking others for no reason and nothing happens.
Just to clarify, I thought nothing happed, but it does. :)
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It's sometimes hard to see the difference between unfair censorship and 'keeping the house in order'--the 'house' being P-L.
I think the Moderators do a pretty good job. They're not appreciated nearly enough. When you get folks who have really extreme, exclusionary views and they don't respond to requests for moderation or show respect for others having the right to their viewpoints, something's got to give.
I think the same holds true when members routinely attack or belittle other members, regardless of what the member says, or try to roil things up and create unnecessary dramas. I'm not talking about things like Republican versus Democrat differences--things like that are pretty cut and dry by nature. Ongoing personal vendettas are a diffrent animal altogether.
;D
Fathertime!
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Cris
I agree that economy has a lot to do with it. As for Colombia, 10 years ago the peso was something like 2900 to the dollar. Airfares were a comfortable $400 from most anywhere in the USA. There were multiple agencies charging $300 for unlimited citas with lots of really attractive women. Lots of guys going down, so for non Spanish speakers, there was a good group always to get help from.
Today
Peso-1800 on a good day
Airfare-$800 is kind of the norm now(double)
Few agencies and the ones left charge a ton for services, IE Jamie $1500 average.
Internet has taken the place and I imagine that many men have 0 intentions to ever travel. They just enjoy the Virtual hunt.
Myself if I were single today, I would have to either take many less trips or take longer to save enough $ to be able to go do a 10 day stay and the budget would still be tight.
In March I have my 5 year wedding anniversary and 5 years ago I could get to Quito for under $500. Now the average is $1000. So I feel the economy is the #1 factor that has less guys actually going for a real visit . The upside is that the ones going are generally the serious ones and less of the recreational guy going down
KB
Good post KB. I am going to take a moment to expand on the agency scene "then" versus "now".
Agency scene "Then"--Many agencies in business, multiple agencies charging $300 for unlimited dates with lots of beautiful women.
Agency scene "Now"--Few agencies in business, agencies are way overpriced ( Jamie's agency $1475, Latin Lifemates $1295, LAI $1695) lots of average looking and unattractive women.
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Dan said.....- we are not here to fuel a bunch of unnecessary drama.
There are certain guys that have come here and done damage to the board before they finally left.
There are no rewards for posting a trip report, or one's personal experiences, so if a guy gets insulted too much after posting, he just starts lurking in my opinion. Guys see how much crap other posters get as they have made their mistakes, and I think they just get to the point of "why bother"?. So the posts, and variety of experiences that are shared gets fewer and fewer.
Lots of lurkers, but not much contributing. I believe it's been slow around here lately because of a certain amount of complete non-sense that has been going on for the last several months. It's been alot better for the last month.
It's a fine line the moderators have to set in determining when too much, is too much.
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Some forums have an area on each post that you can check if you find that you 'like' the post--for instance if it has been useful or particularly interesting to a viewer. I think that'd be a good idea.
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Yes it is amazing the number of lurkers there are out there, some even go as far as registering and never posting, you would guess they decided not to stick around but they still show up now and then to read a little.
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BG, just for info, you wouldn't be allowed on fschmidt's forum because females are not allowed.
He pops in here every now and then and rants on and on about how worthless American women are and how all of our wives are doomed to become evil bitches if we bring them to the USA and expose them to the worthless, evil American culture.
After reading some of his crap, I think the guy is need of some serious psychiatric help.
Ray
I noticed he even himself banned from the Mensa forum, maybe we should send him over the the forum that does not ban anyone, oh I forgot they do ban some people who do not agree with them.
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There are no rewards for posting a trip report, or one's personal experiences, so if a guy gets insulted too much after posting, he just starts lurking in my opinion. Guys see how much crap other posters get as they have made their mistakes, and I think they just get to the point of "why bother"?. So the posts, and variety of experiences that are shared gets fewer and fewer.
- exactly what I have been thinking.
I was pleasantly surprised by the helpful responses to my recent post.