A Situation versus The Man

[Zon]

I have noticed a difference in Colombianas actively online and in agencies versus the Colombianas I have met who are not seeking a gringo (or have never met a gringo).   Generally speaking, the first group is looking for a "situation" ... and in the best of cases a good man, she can fall in love with to fill in the narrow-strokes and details; the later is less prepared, strategic, and more "normal."

Many of my negative comments arise from meeting Paisas in Medellin, and working girls, and party girls in Cali (hay muchos).  But, there are a ton of serious women going to school / or working,  and overcoming many obstacles every day to do so.   Their lives are hard, and it is natural for intelligent ambitious people to consider a better way ...

I have had "dates" with some of these women, and was somewhat put off by the "interview" nature of these meetings.  In retrospect, perhaps I ought not have been leery.  Afterall, exploring the situation was the woman's primary purpose.  On the other hand, I have met women while living in Colombia naturally (not from a dating site), and things seem much more natural, relaxed, and authentic. 

Admittedly, I have little experience in serious relationships with Colombian women, so I offer this difference: the situation versus the man  for the more experience posters to comment on factually and substantively.

[fathertime]

I see the implication you are making here as usual….agency women=calculating and non agency/online girls=better…


I have absolutely no ideal why you think it is so important HOW you meet a woman.  I must say you seem overly interested on frontloading first impressions……after the first 3 minutes it makes no difference after the first 3 months it is never even a thought about how met, it was simply over the computer, and after 3 years I’ve forgotten some of the details of how I met my wife….try focusing on the individual woman and not how it is you meet her.  Almost all women are going to be having some sort of calculation going on upstairs and there is nothing wrong with that…about everything in this endeavor is under your control in one form or another anyway. 
Stop worrying that you will be less of a stud if you meet a woman though an agency or online…it is of no consequence 




Fathertime!

[Zon]

I see the implication you are making here as usual….agency women=calculating and non agency/online girls=better…

HONESTLY NO ...  I am not.   

I do think there is something to the observation of Situation versus Man.    Let that sink in, and see where it goes. 

But, your point that after you meet the woman, the way you meet the woman matters not ... that point is well taken. 

(dude, her is your chance to take me to school hahaha)

[dennislevy]

Zon
Some of your perceptons may be due to the fact that your Spanish isnt fluent...and it was less so when you met those women who seemed to ne more seripus, correct?

First conversations with straight serious women  are often an interview format.  The woman may place a lot of emphasis on the first meeting and be nervous and  not understand all she has to do is be herself,

Yhe man CAN T be himself because he hasn t made the transition to speaking Spanish without thinking first in English...and he doesnt really know what he is seeking through an agency trip.


Quite often amigas in agencies told me...the men from your country (USA) don t know what they want. They just come down here to play. I could only tell them that some of the men WERE sincere, and many of the sincere ones simply didn t have the abilty to communicate

I ve obvioulsy chatted with a ton of women on line...and there are still questions, I expect a woman to ask me questions, i want to do the same with her it s one of the ways getting to know someone.

QUALIFYING someone is just part of the territory

You may think differently about this when your Spanish improves.

[riley]

I have met women online who were also college students.

I don't understand why being interested in getting married makes someone desperate and going to college makes someone not desperate. It seems to me both are just trying to improve their lives.

I like meeting women on websites who are ready to settle down. Many are not looking to marry just anyone and don't want to make a mistake and marry the wrong person.

[Researcher]

I have noticed a difference in Colombianas actively online and in agencies versus the Colombianas I have met who are not seeking a gringo (or have never met a gringo).   Generally speaking, the first group is looking for a "situation" ... and in the best of cases a good man, she can fall in love with to fill in the narrow-strokes and details; the later is less prepared, strategic, and more "normal."

      This thread is very judgemental and makes the suggestion that all people who actively seek to find a mate are simply trying to strategically fill a void. It also claims those who are not trying to find a mate are somehow "normal". Placing people in such narrow categories and then claiming one group is inferior serves only to promote the OP's assumption that only losers actively seek to find a suitable mate.

Many of my negative comments arise from meeting Paisas in Medellin, and working girls, and party girls in Cali (hay muchos).

                So you admit your negative view of Colombian women has to do with the type of women you have experience with yet when someone makes this true observation you cry foul.

But, there are a ton of serious women going to school / or working,  and overcoming many obstacles every day to do so.   Their lives are hard, and it is natural for intelligent ambitious people to consider a better way ...

     So the only serious women who are looking to improve their lives are in college trying to get a career?
Truth be known many women go to college for more reasons than this. Many go also to find a suitable mate who will have a good future.

     Most everyone's life is hard in Colombia and the women who attend college to find a suitable mate are no more intelligent or ambitious than women who are actively seeking a foreign husband. You are making the assumption that women online or in agencies are simply lounging around and waiting for Prince Charming to come along.When I was wife hunting I met many women who had careers, their own businesses or were in college.These worlds do overlap! hahaha!
       

I have had "dates" with some of these women, and was somewhat put off by the "interview" nature of these meetings.  In retrospect, perhaps I ought not have been leery.  Afterall, exploring the situation was the woman's primary purpose.  On the other hand, I have met women while living in Colombia naturally (not from a dating site), and things seem much more natural, relaxed, and authentic. 

             Yes, being "leery" is probably what led to the negative outcome of your experience.Your "natural" approach is what works best for you.Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't make the natural approach superior to others.What works for some doesn't always work for other people.

Admittedly, I have little experience in serious relationships with Colombian women, so I offer this difference: the situation versus the man  for the more experience posters to comment on factually and substantively.

      I think FatherTime was spot on when he said the way you meet someone isn't as important as what happens afterwards.I agree. I've got plenty of experience because I made dating foreign women(in multiple countries) a part of my lifestyle for a long time.Without a doubt I can say when it comes to finding a suitable mate it doesn't matter so much if you meet them in an agency, online or organically in the end it all boils down to two people.

     Class dismissed! hahaha!

     Researcher

[dennislevy]

I dont agree with Researchers assumption that Zon thinks people who are looking for a mate are losers and those who are....are losers. I don t  see that anywhere in the thread.

The idea of two people metting in a natural way when neither is looking for someone....that s lovely. Whitey and Nazly s story is wonderful, it started as a referral... and all of us who have followed it......it took time for them to evolve from where they started...as on line study partners.

But I trying to find someone naturally in a foreign culture isnt that easy. 

But, I would differentiate between women in a fee paid agency and MOST women on line.

Women who pay a healthy fee to join a personal introductions agency, say 150,000 or 200,000 pesos usually have SOME kind of motivation. it may not be specifically  to meet a gringo, many women prefer latinos, etc......or  it may be to break up their routine....etc.

But it costs NOTHING for a woman to put their photos and  profile on Facebook or  any of the Latin cupid sites....(Colombian, Latinamerican, Brazil, Caribbean cupids), or badoo, HI 5, amigos etc, etc..... Anyone can be on muliple social pages or dating sites....women AND men...... She doesnt have to have any motivation, the whole key at least for me) is to discover if she actually is MOTIVATED.

My experience with women who DO pay for cupid memberships is that it doesn t matter....it s not an indication of great motivation and its such a small percentage of the general female poulation on a cupid site, i think  in the neighborhood of 1%

And any of the women especially if they have appealing photos chat with men all over the world.....from the latin world, Europe, the US, Canada, literally all over the world..... They may talk to men from  several countries in a single day...

What I usually see missing in these dialgoues are the POV of latin women. I can only speak about my expereince with Colombian women, I dont have enough of a baseline with peruanas yet.......its a generalization  but I think only a small minority of Colombian women can concretely say...I am willing  to do this or that to progress a realtionship.....what many prefer is to see what happens and then they can decide what they want to do or not do....


So what I usually hear is


we re going to to what happens, (vamos a ver),


or


its in the hands of God


or I am not desperate, I am in no rush


and yes, a lot of women will say God will send me the man that is right for me....

All of it are ways of avoiding concrete statements, and sometimes seeing what a man will do to show them that he is  interested, and how much will he chase them. 

And some women literally have NO motivation, becasue they may be fearful for any number of reasons   but they enjoy chatting and the attention....but that s all they want...


I ll agree that it doesnt matter how you meet a woman....on line or agency or naturally or through an introduction (as long as she doesnt say....mi amor sera costoso!!!!!!)....


jejeje


But however you do it.....if you want to progress, eventually you ve got to get past the vague stuff.


How you do it and how quickly you do it....that s a whole different topic.

[Jason1]

Whoever started this thread definitely doesn't have a favorable opinion of those who use introduction agencies or websites. If you don't see that you are blind.

Using a service or actively looking for a spouse doesn't make anyone a desperate loser. There is nothing wrong with doing this and no one should look down on those who do it.

[Zon]

Whoever started this thread definitely doesn't have a favorable opinion of those who use introduction agencies or websites. If you don't see that you are blind.

Using a service or actively looking for a spouse doesn't make anyone a desperate loser. There is nothing wrong with doing this and no one should look down on those who do it.

WTF!  Come on kid, give me a chance before you put words in my mouth:)

I have not HAD a favorable opinion about agency girls, and the situation (for good reason).  The men who use them?  I do not consider them Desparate Loosers.  Where do you get that?

And, FT made a good solid point.  After the BS of meeting, and the first couple days, it does NOT matter how a man meets a woman. I realize that I have been too concerned with the meeting and structure (probably because I had limited language skills and felt GREATLY uncomfortable with the idea of using a translator), and not concerned enough about what happens afterward.

[Big_Al]

I consider you a straight shooter but it is obvious you consider anyone who uses an agency or a website a desperate loser.

I don't need to use either myself. I know many people in Colombia and can speak spanish pretty good but I'm not going to look down on those who use services like that.

[riley]

Just because some of us choose to meet women online doesn't make us desperate losers. How else are we supposed to come in contact with women from other countries. Some of us have jobs and lives we can't walk away from to go and live in another country to find a wife. Many people meet online nowadays and it has become a normal way to meet someone. It isn't a way for desperate people to find other desperate people to have a relationship with.

[Researcher]

Just because some of us choose to meet women online doesn't make us desperate losers. How else are we supposed to come in contact with women from other countries. Some of us have jobs and lives we can't walk away from to go and live in another country to find a wife. Many people meet online nowadays and it has become a normal way to meet someone. It isn't a way for desperate people to find other desperate people to have a relationship with.

           Riley, don't let other people's opinions bother you. Some people have trouble using agencies and websites to meet people so it isn't for them.I think a person should use every available way to meet others when seriously looking for a spouse.It's called taking initiative and it works!

          I used many different ways to meet women when I was wife hunting.I tried waiting on the couch but my dream girl never showed! hahaha!

      BTW, nice bike is that yours?

          Researcher

[Zon]

I consider you a straight shooter but it is obvious you consider anyone who uses an agency or a website a desperate loser.

I will re-evaluate this.  Holding such a position - universally - is not my intent.   I have used online services (and felt like a desparate looser HAHAHA)   I have been an innocent bystander with marriage agency activity (and was not very impressed).  BUT, as FT suggested upthread - it does not matter how you meet a person.   That is the truth.

[Bob_S]

Enough with all the "desperate loser" comments.  I don't see where Zon mentioned it in his initial post.  Though I will say this, having used an agency in the past, some of the ladies did make it feel like an uncomfortable job interview.  It really does depend on the lady, though.  If you are not clicking because it feels uncomfortable, just move on.

[dennislevy]

I ve used agencies in Bogota, two of the cupid web sites....I ve put ads in the newspapers of two cities in Colombia, met women as a result of personal introductions, tried to pick up women.
 
Im losing...but smiling! jejejejej
 
 

[riley]

Researcher that is a pic of another bike but mine is exactly like it. It is a Fatboy.


I have had alot of luck meeting women online. The reason things haven't worked out with one yet is mostly my misunderstanding the women.

[Big_Al]

Man Riley those Fatboys are nice bikes. I had a Sportster when I was younger and I loved it. I'm a big guy and didn't realize the bike was really too small for me. I moved up to a bigger bike later.

Oh yes the good old days.

[Jason1]

WTF!  Come on kid, give me a chance before you put words in my mouth:)

I have not HAD a favorable opinion about agency girls, and the situation (for good reason).  The men who use them?  I do not consider them Desparate Loosers.  Where do you get that?

And, FT made a good solid point.  After the BS of meeting, and the first couple days, it does NOT matter how a man meets a woman. I realize that I have been too concerned with the meeting and structure (probably because I had limited language skills and felt GREATLY uncomfortable with the idea of using a translator), and not concerned enough about what happens afterward.

I'm glad you cleared that up. I misunderstood. My Bad. I see your point now.


Riley nice motorcycle. I have always wanted to go cross country on a big Honda Goldwing.

[z_k_g]

BUT, as FT suggested upthread - it does not matter how you meet a person.   That is the truth.

Zon,

Agreed!

Z

[fathertime]

(dude, her is your chance to take me to school hahaha)

ok zonny i'll play the role of teacher and you can be the school girl! jajaj!


I think you are fishing with the wrong bait and that is why you have been left holding the bag to this point. 


You are almost 50 years old and you are 'fishing around' with long hair, earring, drinking and dancing all night, subpar spanish and a VERY suspect background.   There is really not much you can do about your background, but you got realize you are old enough to be a grandfather EASILY.  Why not try to stop acting like you are 22 years old?  When a woman sees a 50 or so year old she would expect a certain maturity.  I think it is pretty rare that they are going to find you so physically attractive that they can't live without you, but if you show through your actions that you are a good man that will look out for them, then you have a shot at really keeping a beautiful younger woman that you are looking for.  Take a look at yourself through a young woman's eyes, what do you think she is seeing nowadays when she sees someone of your age drinking and dancing all night and fumbling around with spanish.  Do you think that she thinks this is the guy I want raising my future zonnerettes?  Wake up!!


You are trying to recreate a 'young love affair' but that is not how it actually will work for a guy of your age.  I've had that type of love before when I was young and the type of love you are likely going to get from a lady in Colombiana is going to be a different style yet better style but you are only going to get it if you pour cold water over yourself and stop acting like a adolescent gooftard around these women! jajajaj


All meant in good fun so don't be so damn oversensitive! 


Fathertime!

[Zon]

You are almost 50 years old and you are 'fishing around' with long hair, earring, drinking and dancing all night, subpar spanish and a VERY suspect background.   There is really not much you can do about your background, but you got realize you are old enough to be a grandfather EASILY.  Why not try to stop acting like you are 22 years old?  When a woman sees a 50 or so year old she would expect a certain maturity.  I think it is pretty rare that they are going to find you so physically attractive that they can't live without you, but if you show through your actions that you are a good man that will look out for them, then you have a shot at really keeping a beautiful younger woman that you are looking for.  Take a look at yourself through a young woman's eyes, what do you think she is seeing nowadays when she sees someone of your age drinking and dancing all night and fumbling around with spanish.  Do you think that she thinks this is the guy I want raising my future zonnerettes?  Wake up!!


You are trying to recreate a 'young love affair' but that is not how it actually will work for a guy of your age.  I've had that type of love before when I was young and the type of love you are likely going to get from a lady in Colombiana is going to be a different style yet better style but you are only going to get it if you pour cold water over yourself and stop acting like a adolescent gooftard around these women! jajajaj

Awesome post and great timing.  If it were possible for one post to justify my time here ... this is it.

Literally, a bell went off in my head last night.   

I was talking to a friend, and he was trying to convince me to take a world trip with him in the middle of next year  (I work while I travel. My day job is computer / communication related ... not much different than a day trader really - not nearly as fun and sinful as my reputation suggests).  He said to me, "man in two months I am going to turn 40 - after than, I only got 5 years".  Which made me think to myself: "How old am I?"   I did the quick math and the words OH[snip] thundered in my head   HAHAHA    Wow, I just played Peter Pan for almost 4 years!   See what a divorce and mid-life crisis can do to a guy:)

It is true!  You got to be sensible and strategic about these things.   Time has gotten away from me.  I can still land this ship constructively and on target, but I am going to need to be more of the man I was in my early 40's, that's for sure.

I understand EXACTLY what your are talking about - more than you may know about young love, passion and the rest.  I am not going to write a word about that crap here, becuase it would be waaaay to mushy.  Anyway, when all this started for me, I found this board.  I talked to Dennis Levy by phone.  I got my heart broken by a Russian girl.  I read Steppenwolf.  And, I looked serious at what it would take to call a DO-OVER in my life.  Well, now I know. 

FT - Thanks teach, but you must understand my Spanish will be excellent someday ... does not matter if it is 6 more months, or 2 more years. ON THAT ISSUE, I have time:)

[Fuzzyone]

ok zonny i'll play the role of teacher and you can be the school girl! jajaj!


I think you are fishing with the wrong bait and that is why you have been left holding the bag to this point. 


You are almost 50 years old and you are 'fishing around' with long hair, earring, drinking and dancing all night, subpar spanish and a VERY suspect background.   There is really not much you can do about your background, but you got realize you are old enough to be a grandfather EASILY.  Why not try to stop acting like you are 22 years old?  When a woman sees a 50 or so year old she would expect a certain maturity.  I think it is pretty rare that they are going to find you so physically attractive that they can't live without you, but if you show through your actions that you are a good man that will look out for them, then you have a shot at really keeping a beautiful younger woman that you are looking for.  Take a look at yourself through a young woman's eyes, what do you think she is seeing nowadays when she sees someone of your age drinking and dancing all night and fumbling around with spanish.  Do you think that she thinks this is the guy I want raising my future zonnerettes?  Wake up!!


You are trying to recreate a 'young love affair' but that is not how it actually will work for a guy of your age.  I've had that type of love before when I was young and the type of love you are likely going to get from a lady in Colombiana is going to be a different style yet better style but you are only going to get it if you pour cold water over yourself and stop acting like a adolescent gooftard around these women! jajajaj


All meant in good fun so don't be so damn oversensitive! 


Fathertime!

  When I went online to find a wife I avoid chicas that put pics of themselves out at a bar or partying. It really was not because I was a prude I like to drink and party sometimes but why trade a A.W. bargirl for a S.A. bargirl you are really not upgrading if you think about it.


   My wife does not drink I get her to drink a beer once in awhile but she does not drink. She does like to dance which I have two left feet!

[Researcher]

     A situation versus the man. Zon, could you expand on what it is exactly you are wanting to discuss?


         Researcher

[Zon]

A situation versus the man. Zon, could you expand on what it is exactly you are wanting to discuss?

excuse me for a little ad hominem Researcher, but with me you seem obtuse:)

The situation: is what the women is looking for.  Example.  Gringo. No kids.  Doctor or professional.  Don't care about physical appearance.  Not over 40 years of age.  A man that wants to get married at the speed of light, and let me move into his 3 story house in the suburbs.

The man: Any guy looking for a mate.

So, the point of the discussion is how to perceive / negotiate the fact that many / most women are looking for a situation first, and the man is the blank to be filled in.    This is not "normally" how women fall in love with a man for life.   FT made a great point above, which to restate simply says it does not matter how you meet the women, the rules of engagment begin only afterwards.   Bob S chimed in with agreement with the feeling of being interviewed.   I am not trying to KABOSH or insult anybody BTW

[fathertime]

Awesome post and great timing.  If it were possible for one post to justify my time here ... this is it.

Literally, a bell went off in my head last night.   

I was talking to a friend, and he was trying to convince me to take a world trip with him in the middle of next year  (I work while I travel. My day job is computer / communication related ... not much different than a day trader really - not nearly as fun and sinful as my reputation suggests).  He said to me, "man in two months I am going to turn 40 - after than, I only got 5 years".  Which made me think to myself: "How old am I?"   I did the quick math and the words OH[snip] thundered in my head   HAHAHA    Wow, I just played Peter Pan for almost 4 years!   See what a divorce and mid-life crisis can do to a guy:)

It is true!  You got to be sensible and strategic about these things.   Time has gotten away from me.  I can still land this ship constructively and on target, but I am going to need to be more of the man I was in my early 40's, that's for sure.

I understand EXACTLY what your are talking about - more than you may know about young love, passion and the rest.  I am not going to write a word about that crap here, becuase it would be waaaay to mushy.  Anyway, when all this started for me, I found this board.  I talked to Dennis Levy by phone.  I got my heart broken by a Russian girl.  I read Steppenwolf.  And, I looked serious at what it would take to call a DO-OVER in my life.  Well, now I know. 

FT - Thanks teach, but you must understand my Spanish will be excellent someday ... does not matter if it is 6 more months, or 2 more years. ON THAT ISSUE, I have time:)

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with zonny on this one.  My post was spot on! jajajaj


You have now been reminded about some of basic traits necessary to complete your task.  You have been stubbornly taking 3 steps forward and 2 backward for quite a while.  Lets see if you can pull yourself together now.
 
On a side note I notice some men intentionally put themselves in untenable situations or have grandiose expectations of women so they always have an excuse not to commit to a woman.  They set their game up like this to cleanse their conscience and justify more dates for 'coffee'.  Don't let yourself become like some unkempt walrus flopping around aimlessly.  Unlike some, you may actually have something to offer a woman IF YOU make some changes to your attitude.


Fathertime!