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Author Topic: I'm done with Colombia traveling  (Read 11782 times)

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Offline El Escéptico

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I'm done with Colombia traveling
« on: February 19, 2013, 05:44:06 PM »
My wife a Paisa has lived in the USA almost 2 years. A few months ago someone copied her ID in Medellin and registered a vehicle in her name using fake papers, photos. Now they have mustered 15 traffic parking citations. Colombian authorities now want my wife to return to fix the mess costing me $500.00 in airfare. Mind you this is a country that is considered one of the most corrupt counties in the world were most problems with the police are fixed by a carton of Marlboros.(Which has always worked for people when traveling there) Wife robbed at gunpoint in Envigado nothing done, no suspects, traffic problems return or else. F them!!!!!!  Really I told her never to return and tell them to go F themselves but she is afraid. I won't give this country another penny no matter how beautiful it is. Two gringos I know killed there.....frankly you have to be a little nuts to go or live in Colombia the place is just to dangerous, and corrupt....off the soap box 4 now!

Offline bcc_1_2

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 06:21:26 PM »
I agree with your rant. None of that crap going on in Medellin impacts you two anymore. At most she will want to go back for short visit to catch up with family & friends. If her life was there it would be different. Lucky she made it out okay. She should have just ignored it... and I bet this is a lesson learned.
You'll have to go back someday again (or at least she will for family) but she can just ride with friends or take a taxi... problem solved.
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Offline Calipro

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 07:19:21 PM »
My wife a Paisa has lived in the USA almost 2 years. A few months ago someone copied her ID in Medellin and registered a vehicle in her name using fake papers, photos. Now they have mustered 15 traffic parking citations. Colombian authorities now want my wife to return to fix the mess costing me $500.00 in airfare. Mind you this is a country that is considered one of the most corrupt counties in the world were most problems with the police are fixed by a carton of Marlboros.(Which has always worked for people when traveling there) Wife robbed at gunpoint in Envigado nothing done, no suspects, traffic problems return or else. F them!!!!!!  Really I told her never to return and tell them to go F themselves but she is afraid. I won't give this country another penny no matter how beautiful it is. Two gringos I know killed there.....frankly you have to be a little nuts to go or live in Colombia the place is just to dangerous, and corrupt....off the soap box 4 now!


Odd story.....I think your wife should report the car stolen if it is really in her name and sell it after the police recover the vehicle...to pay the fines.  On second thought probably not a good idea....the car probably is a stolen vehicle....why else would someone put it in a strangers name.

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 07:19:21 PM »

Offline Bob_S

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 09:57:33 PM »
You'll have to go back someday again (or at least she will for family) but she can just ride with friends or take a taxi... problem solved.
If she ignores it all, won't there eventually be a warrant for her arrest when she goes through passport control to enter the country again?  She may become a permanent exile.
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Offline Calipro

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 10:13:42 PM »
If she ignores it all, won't there eventually be a warrant for her arrest when she goes through passport control to enter the country again?  She may become a permanent exile.


Traffic tickets don't work like that in Colombia....you never get arrested for not paying them nor do you ever lose your license....they just go against the car....you can never sell the car and transfer title without having paid the tickets.


If you lend your car to a friend and he gets a ticket in your car and doesn't pay it then you will have to pay it eventually because it will be attached to your car. Used to be that unpaid tickets fell off after five years in Cali but I heard they where trying to change the law a while back....somebody has to pay for all the traffic cameras they are installing all over the city.

Offline SkyNorth

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 03:06:53 AM »
You guys are talking me into a trip to Asia this Spring !!!

Offline benjio

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 08:06:45 AM »
My wife a Paisa has lived in the USA almost 2 years. A few months ago someone copied her ID in Medellin and registered a vehicle in her name using fake papers, photos. Now they have mustered 15 traffic parking citations. Colombian authorities now want my wife to return to fix the mess costing me $500.00 in airfare. Mind you this is a country that is considered one of the most corrupt counties in the world were most problems with the police are fixed by a carton of Marlboros.(Which has always worked for people when traveling there) Wife robbed at gunpoint in Envigado nothing done, no suspects, traffic problems return or else. F them!!!!!!  Really I told her never to return and tell them to go F themselves but she is afraid. I won't give this country another penny no matter how beautiful it is. Two gringos I know killed there.....frankly you have to be a little nuts to go or live in Colombia the place is just to dangerous, and corrupt....off the soap box 4 now!

After countless trips and several extended stays in Colombia I definitely feel your pain. I don't think I've ever reacted the way you are however. There's just certain aspects of the country and culture I've learned to accept. Police are corrupt. Banking is a bitch. Almost everyone that hears a hint of a gringo accent in your Spanish will try to screw you over; and that's only if you know Spanish. If you don't you might as well be wearing an "Easy Money" target. The country still continues to spark my interest though. I generally will not trust any Colombian as far as I can throw them. But at the same time I have to admit I've met some great people there. Men and Women that I'm sure will be lifelong friends. When you really get off the beaten path and start to explore the interior of the country you'll discover it has some of the most beautiful landscapes on Earth. Mountains, rivers and plains that you won't see anything else like anywhere else on the planet. Any place I can go where I can stand on a mountain top for hours looking down at God's Masterpiece in all its splendor will keep me coming back.
 
I've noticed that every gringo I've met that lives in Colombia has developed the same set of adaptive behaviors to deal with everyday life there. They have very little patience for bull[snip]. They haggle for everything...even things with price tags. They dress very humbly. They don't stay with one woman very long. They don't stay in one place for more than a year or two. I've learned that these behaviors have more to do with self-preservation as supposed to life choices. And I share their perspective that what they give up in terms of the illusion of safety and stability they would have in the states is well worth the sacrifice.
 
I'm truly sorry about your friends being murdered. But I've lived in the states most of my life and have lost at least a dozen friends to violent crime. Perhaps that's more likely in Colombia, but not sound enough logic to assume this would never happen to one of your friends stateside. Someone once told me (in reference to Colombia), "God reserved the most beautiful land on Earth for the most evil men to ever inhabit it." I guess it was The Almighty's attempt at evening things up. Who knows? The key is preparation, adaptation and appreciation for the finer points of a culture that's different from your own. People from Louisiana come to Houston all the time and incessantly complain about the fact that you can't buy liquor in a store after 9, and you can't buy a drink period after 2 a.m. I'll tell you the same thing I tell them: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like what Romans do, stay out of Rome." So with all that being said, I think you're doing the right thing by leaving Colombia behind for good. It's definitely not for everyone.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 08:29:57 AM by benjio »

Offline bcc_1_2

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 09:45:34 AM »
There is a real benefit to threads like this. Let's leave it to the businesses and the profiteers to sell Colombia and other countries.
I sometimes wonder if the reality of being in these countries is actually being discussed here. I think in some cases people fly into said country, have a driver there to take them to their pad, and they basically contract with a local company to supply them with dates. They eat at the hotel or are staying on the nice street with all the nice places to eat & drink... and now they think they are hardcore travelers.
I just can't in good faith suggest Colombia to a friend. Because they are a naive gringo from the Midwest and if anything happened I'd feel bad and never hear the end of it.
I would never in a million years suggest Honduras anymore. And you can go back to previous threads where I do suggest Honduras. I should probably start a new thread to explain just how bad Honduras is right now... and why unless you are flying into La Ceiba you have no business going there. Don't leave the airport @ SAP just head straight for La Ceiba. If you have an online friend from Honduras... make her go to La Ceiba. Anywhere else forget it.
In Iowa they give away free popcorn and have a cook out for votes. In Honduras they give away free caskets. Gringo just have no business there at all.
So I think... my beautiful wife aside... we all ought to start being a little more frank about the conditions.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 10:05:31 AM »

I sometimes wonder if the reality of being in these countries is actually being discussed here.
 
I think in some cases people fly into said country, have a driver there to take them to their pad, and they basically contract with a local company to supply them with dates. They eat at the hotel or are staying on the nice street with all the nice places to eat & drink... and now they think they are hardcore travelers.

Oh so true. Other nations are like relationships. They typically start off good, but you often don't see the warts, pimples, foibles and imperfections until later on. It's like at first there's the honeymoon and then reality sets in. Then you experience the 'wear and tear' that only time can bring. Some guys can roll with it and still be happy. I guess Micky fits that category, but he's certainly not oblivious to reality and the differences at hand.
 
Cultural differences, not just attitudes towards cheating on each other, but also crime, pollution and healthcare, to name but a few, become much clearer when experienced first hand and not typically from a tourist's limited perspective  based on a few weeks here and there.
 
Hate to admit it, but here are times when I wonder why we even bought a home in my wife's nation. All the above factors, plus an unstable political & economic climate, as well as concern as to whether we could get competent health care in an emergency, all wear heavy on us. Even my wife has lessened the amount of time she'd like to spend 'back home', aftr grasping the realities and she loves her nation, more precisely it's people and their spirit.
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Offline htown

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 11:04:32 AM »
I've had my identy stolen here in the us and it caused my tax return to get all screwed up a few years ago.  I think I'm going to renounce my us citizenship and leave never to return.
Dance with the one who brung ya!  :)

Offline El Escéptico

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 07:51:46 PM »
 I've worked in the streets of NY, Brooklyn (Bed sty) and others and I would consider myself an expert on crime. My facts speak for themselves. I know 3 gringos who moved to Colombia on a permanent bases. All 3 are dead. 2 were murdered the other died in a medical mishap. With the small number of gringos I know who lived there and all are gone you might see why I'm somewhat jaded. My wife had a gun put to her head in a burgulary/armed robbery in Envigado 2 years ago. They pulled the trigger but the gun was not loaded. They did not know that at the time  as the gun was one of the items they came to steal. Since then her Uncle has been robbed while waiting for a light to turn green in his vehicle while Christmas shopping. Lost all the gifts and his watch, rings but kept his life. My 14 year old told me a story that while going to the airport a few years ago they were stopped by the police who refused to let them go without handing over 10.000 COP. In the USA you go to jail for many years for that behavior. I know may people like to put their head in the sand and believe that Medellin is no more dangerous then any other big city.....yea just keep on believing that....cause my friend that will get you killed.
 My thoughts are based on what I've seen first hand and what others close to me have experienced. Colombia is a very dangerous place to live ... Life is cheap there and if you become a victim of a crime there' a 95% chance it will go unsolved.
 In all the times I traveled to Colombia I never fooled myself into believing the place was safe. I went there for one reason which was the ease of meeting very beautiful women.
Colombia is a beautiful country , the women even more so. But corrupt, backwards, dangerous it is also. As the other poster said "Colombia is not for everybody" I agree especially if you value you life.
 As for the post... "I've had my identity stolen here in the us and it caused my tax return to get all screwed up a few years ago. I think I'm going to renounce my us citizenship and leave never to return"
Exactly my point....another gringo with his head in the sand.
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 07:56:19 PM by El Escéptico »

Offline Micky

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 08:49:27 PM »
EE -

I like to defend Medellin when people go off on it.  I have no problem with your post,  at all.  Your points are all valid and true.  I think that anyone that moves to another country/culture,  BETTER think in terms of the reality of the move.
I am not going to take the time to post about the things that I love about living here.  And I believe that there are some great things here in Med that can't be duplicated in the States.  Whatever I would say would not be a counterpoint to your post,  what you said was fair and accurate.

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Offline SkyNorth

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 10:07:36 PM »
EL...thanks for your insight into all has happened to your friends and family in Colombia.  I think we sometimes lose touch if we don't hear the real human side of these tragidies.  My buddy from college was shot in the head in Louisiana a couple of years ago.  I can't imagine losing 3 friends that way.  I wish you the best.
 
Micky...I again say props to you for showing restraint - in the face of some bad press for your city.
 
Robert...your place and lady are from the Phillippines - correct ???  - is PIs really that danerous ???

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 10:07:36 PM »

Offline Stevieboy

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 10:44:07 AM »
I've worked in the streets of NY, Brooklyn (Bed sty) and others and I would consider myself an expert on crime. My facts speak for themselves. I know 3 gringos who moved to Colombia on a permanent bases. All 3 are dead. 2 were murdered the other died in a medical mishap. With the small number of gringos I know who lived there and all are gone you might see why I'm somewhat jaded. My wife had a gun put to her head in a burgulary/armed robbery in Envigado 2 years ago. They pulled the trigger but the gun was not loaded. They did not know that at the time  as the gun was one of the items they came to steal. Since then her Uncle has been robbed while waiting for a light to turn green in his vehicle while Christmas shopping. Lost all the gifts and his watch, rings but kept his life. My 14 year old told me a story that while going to the airport a few years ago they were stopped by the police who refused to let them go without handing over 10.000 COP. In the USA you go to jail for many years for that behavior. I know may people like to put their head in the sand and believe that Medellin is no more dangerous then any other big city.....yea just keep on believing that....cause my friend that will get you killed.
 My thoughts are based on what I've seen first hand and what others close to me have experienced. Colombia is a very dangerous place to live ... Life is cheap there and if you become a victim of a crime there' a 95% chance it will go unsolved.
 In all the times I traveled to Colombia I never fooled myself into believing the place was safe. I went there for one reason which was the ease of meeting very beautiful women.
Colombia is a beautiful country , the women even more so. But corrupt, backwards, dangerous it is also. As the other poster said "Colombia is not for everybody" I agree especially if you value you life.
 As for the post... "I've had my identity stolen here in the us and it caused my tax return to get all screwed up a few years ago. I think I'm going to renounce my us citizenship and leave never to return"
Exactly my point....another gringo with his head in the sand.

I hear you Man. Last year I had an aunt who was a business owner in Juarez Mexico kidnapped and murdered. Our family fully believes the police were the kidnappers.
.
I've walked at night the streets of some pretty shady areas in NY and Philadelphia, yet have also walked at night in Guadalara and Panama. I'd much rather walk in the US because at least I and the criminals know that a crime will be investigated and prosecuted here.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 10:51:07 AM by Stevieboy »

Offline Stevieboy

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 10:47:34 AM »
n
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 10:49:30 AM by Stevieboy »

Offline bcc_1_2

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2013, 03:14:11 PM »
Drugs, gangs, weapons, general lawlessness I think it is real bad right now in several Latin American countries. Finally great to see some folks not just drinking the kool aid and willing to admit there are some real bad problems right now. Poverty, corruption, disasters... there are a lot of problems that contribute to the danger in these countries... but the drug consumption in the USA and Western Europe plays a role too.
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Offline htown

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 04:12:18 PM »
As for the post... "I've had my identity stolen here in the us and it caused my tax return to get all screwed up a few years ago. I think I'm going to renounce my us citizenship and leave never to return"
Exactly my point....another gringo with his head in the sand.


These are a few news stories I pulled from my local news channel website.  These stories are from today only and there will be a whole new set of stories of gun violence, robberies, police corruption tomorrow.  THIS IS AN EVERYDAY THING HERE. 







Police: 2 arrested in deadly robbery of Houston Boost Mobile storeWoman’s charred remains discovered behind laundromat in northeast HoustonFather of 21-year-old who killed intruder: ‘One young life is lost’HPD officer accused of soliciting women for sexual favors during traffic stopsMan flees after shooting brother at mobile home park in Fort Bend CountyRumors of Cypress serial rapist have nerves on edgeWest Columbia police chief accused of stealing drugsHPD: Shots fired during attempted robbery[/font]




This happened last week, a lady was shot and robbed while leaving a gym!  This happened right around the corner from my house, and I live in a nice, "safe" suburban neighborhood.


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8988866




I'm not saying colombia's a safe place, but where I live isn't exactly disneyland either.  When I spent a month in colombia last year I stayed the whole month in the seediest area of medellin which pretty much makes it the one of the seediest parts of the world, and I saw some pretty raw sh*t while I was there.
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Offline Brazilophile

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 06:43:41 PM »
Colombia is a beautiful country , the women even more so. But corrupt, backwards, dangerous it is also. As the other poster said "Colombia is not for everybody" I agree especially if you value you life.

Excellent post!  The points you made are exactly why I agree with poster (from several years ago) who advised that we should seek wives only from countries in which we ourselves wouldn't mind living.  My experiences with Colombia were such that I could not imagine living and working there.  I found that there was too much 'systemic myopia and disorganization'.  Large powerful institutions like government and corporations were just so concerned about themselves and their own power that they poisoned the legal/economic environment, making it impossible for smaller institutions to thrive and very difficult to even survive.
 
In addition, it takes a very special woman, who was raised in that type of environment, to shed its influence and be able to fully function in a US-style environment.  I have met women from countries with deep corruption roots.  They see dishonesty in every nook and cranny as well as in broad daylight.  They limit their own opportunities here because of the tactics, (secrecy, lying, misrepresentation) that they engage in for self-defense against the old-country boogie men.  Such special women are rare.

Offline benjio

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 06:58:44 PM »

These are a few news stories I pulled from my local news channel website.  These stories are from today only and there will be a whole new set of stories of gun violence, robberies, police corruption tomorrow.  THIS IS AN EVERYDAY THING HERE. 







Police: 2 arrested in deadly robbery of Houston Boost Mobile storeWoman’s charred remains discovered behind laundromat in northeast HoustonFather of 21-year-old who killed intruder: ‘One young life is lost’HPD officer accused of soliciting women for sexual favors during traffic stopsMan flees after shooting brother at mobile home park in Fort Bend CountyRumors of Cypress serial rapist have nerves on edgeWest Columbia police chief accused of stealing drugsHPD: Shots fired during attempted robbery




This happened last week, a lady was shot and robbed while leaving a gym!  This happened right around the corner from my house, and I live in a nice, "safe" suburban neighborhood.


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8988866




I'm not saying colombia's a safe place, but where I live isn't exactly disneyland either.  When I spent a month in colombia last year I stayed the whole month in the seediest area of medellin which pretty much makes it the one of the seediest parts of the world, and I saw some pretty raw sh*t while I was there.


HTown,

I've made post like this before about Houston. The truth is gun violence is so normal here a lot of it doesn't make the news. Especially in areas where it happens often. Almost EVERYONE owns a handgun in Houston, and I believe I read somewhere that Houston has the largest number of licensed concealed handgun carriers in the nation by far...three times more than the city second to it. Now I'll admit, that's obviously probably because Houston is the 4th largest city in the U.S., and the three cities that are bigger (New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago) are in states where gun laws are much less lenient. But still...that's a lot of gotdamn guns, and that's not even counting the illegal carriers. I lost five friends to murder by firearms before I graduated from high school.

I've never attempted to suggest or argue that Houston is statistically more dangerous than Medellin. That's simpy not true. My point is that people are subceptable to violent crime anywhere in the world they live, so using the argument to give others a bad impression of Colombia just isn't fair. I bet if you compared the amount of Colombian Nationals that are victims of violent crimes in the U.S. to the number of gringos that are victims of violent crimes in Colombia, the Colombians in the U.S. would probably be in a worse position. But again, it could be argued that this is statistically more probable because there are a lot more Colombians living here than there are gringos living in Colombia. My co-workers in Bogota told me a story about an American that worked for my company in Nigeria for 15 years and was never scratched by another person there...only to move to Bogota for another assignment where he was killed during a robbery a month after arriving. One could never effectively argue that Bogota is more dangerous than Lagos though.

This is just my opinion. There's no real logic or statistical evidence to back it up. But from where I sit being a victim of violent crime is a numbers game, and the numbers say that most most people won't be during their lifetimes, regardless of where they live (in Western Civilization at least...Africa and the Middle East are entirely different stories). When it does happen...it's simply bad luck. After losing as many people as I have to murder, eventualy you can't help but see only the randomness of it all.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:18:14 PM by benjio »

Offline benjio

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 07:04:56 PM »
In addition, it takes a very special woman, who was raised in that type of environment, to shed its influence and be able to fully function in a US-style environment.  I have met women from countries with deep corruption roots.  They see dishonesty in every nook and cranny as well as in broad daylight.  They limit their own opportunities here because of the tactics, (secrecy, lying, misrepresentation) that they engage in for self-defense against the old-country boogie men.  Such special women are rare.
Brazilophile,

I could probably find 20 past posts where I have expressed this very fact in reference to Colombianas. However, for some here, it is taboo to even suggest this is the reality of trying to find a good woman in Colombia.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:14:32 PM by benjio »

Offline mambocowboy

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 07:37:07 PM »
Brazilophile,

I could probably find 20 past posts where I have expressed this very fact in reference to Colombianas. However, for some here, it is taboo to even suggest this is the reality of trying to find a good woman in Colombia.
I'm in agreement with you both. The more I hear from my wife about Colombia, about her girlfriends, and especially about my wife's girlfriends living here in the States who are married to gringos, I appreciate my wife more. Making a relationship work over here takes effort and support (not only financial) from the husband, even if your spouse is emotionally healthy. My wife is a happy person who can adjust easily, and even so the process of assimilating here is challenging. It's a whole different ball of wax when you take a woman away from all she's ever known and cared about and bring her to another country where they speak in a language she can't understand...The women who come here have no way of knowing just how challenging it's going to be, and they give up alot in hopes of a better life and the promise of a dedicated husband. And even though there are some who are traicioneras and are looking for financial gain, there are also gringos who frankly don't treat them very well, either...You rarely hear about any struggles or failed marriages on this site, and the outlook can be overly rosy. It would be helpful to hear from some of those who've struggled too. I remember JWR who no longer posts here talked about his 10 year marriage to a Calena which ended in divorce and had alot of constructive posts, but that's more the exception...

Offline El Escéptico

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 07:38:47 PM »
The governor said violence in Medellin, due to drug trafficking and criminal gangs, was “increasing” and said the “root” of the problem had yet to be solved, according to radio station Caracol.
Fajarda also said he knew “very well” which zones of Medellin needed special attention and likened the structural problem of violence to a tree.
The governor’s comments came after reports of escalating violence in parts of Medellin’s inner city. On Friday, a public transport chief was killed by criminals in the Comuna 13 district, after allegedly refusing to pay “tax” to a local neighborhood gang. Meanwhile, in the Comuna 8 district, a person launched a grenade against a public transport bus, wounding five including three children.
Locals in Comuna 13 have in the last few days complained about escalating violence, partly attributed to infighting in the crime syndicate Oficina de Envigado and new advances by neo-paramilitary group Los Urabeños.
On Thursday, locals told Colombia Reports hundreds of children were unable to go to school due to heavy fighting and threats against residents in the area
These events occurred in the last few days. Medellin is the 2nd most violent city in the World. I know many of you would rather not admit it to yourself or family you really take great risk each time you travel there. Crime is random and sooner rather then later your number will come up in Medellin. Everyone I know who is from Medellin was a victim of some crime usually recent. Crime in the USA is investigated, people are put in jail and excuted (Texas/Florida) Colombia not a chance...that's why their major criminals are usually sent here to the US to serve their terms. Colombia/Medellin at point is really like the wild West except you won't ride off into the sunset and the good guy hardly ever wins.

Offline Micky

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 09:26:41 PM »
BP - BenJ - EE - MC


Some EXCELLENT posts in this thread.  I have said 93 times (joke) that,  in my opinion,  it is more important to learn and understand the culture,  than it is to be fluent in the language.  Some of the reasons for being less than honest,  the lack of responsibility,  avoid confrontation,  etc,  are fairly valid cultural adaptions here.  I have had many talks with my best friend and brother-in-law,  JuanCa about these very things.  He says that all of these negative traits are cultural,  first and foremost.
Htown and I had a discussion when he was here about the women who hook up with a gringo and it does not work out.  We both agreed that some women started out honest women in a new relationship,  and serious about their new novio.  After they were all hooked up,  they became over matched with the new culture, language,  etc..  They end up leaving the guy,  going back home.  Trying to be fair,  these are not all bad women who quit,  some are good women who just were not equipped to handle it.  And the truth is,  that is a huge move and change for their lives.
Anyway guys,  some really nice posts,  thanks!


Micky
Don't crap on my 2 yard line!

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 09:26:41 PM »

Offline Zon

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 06:17:32 AM »
Quote

Excellent post!  The points you made are exactly why I agree with poster (from several years ago) who advised that we should seek wives only from countries in which we ourselves wouldn't mind living.  My experiences with Colombia were such that I could not imagine living and working there.  I found that there was too much 'systemic myopia and disorganization'.  Large powerful institutions like government and corporations were just so concerned about themselves and their own power that they poisoned the legal/economic environment, making it impossible for smaller institutions to thrive and very difficult to even survive.
 
In addition, it takes a very special woman, who was raised in that type of environment, to shed its influence and be able to fully function in a US-style environment.  I have met women from countries with deep corruption roots.  They see dishonesty in every nook and cranny as well as in broad daylight.  They limit their own opportunities here because of the tactics, (secrecy, lying, misrepresentation) that they engage in for self-defense against the old-country boogie men.  Such special women are rare.

Yes. Yes. Yes.  And, it is more complicated that this.

My first time in Colombia, I noticed and was offended by the class systems at work.  We in the USA are more egalitarian - the rich can become poor, the poor can become rich. There is an acceptance to this.  People are measured more on their skills, intelligence  connections, beauty, etc...  Rich Colombians have little associations with middle, and poor Colombians.  There are different orbits of life that never touch each other. After some time and experience, one must admit that there are DAMN GOOD reasons for this.

It is natural to assume the rich are good / better, then.  But, this generalization turns out to be untrue.   Much of the rich are corrupt and ethically challenged.

Where does this leave us?  Throw off the ROSE COLORED GLASSES.  Make people earn your trust through time and deeds (not hours and days).  No dar un papaya.  After you accept these less trusting and  more restrained Rules Of Engagement, and if you fall in love with the people and country - which is not difficult to do - then, and only then, work to design a safe life for yourself there.  It Can Be Done!





« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:10:08 AM by Zon »

Offline robert angel

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Re: I'm done with Colombia traveling
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2013, 08:27:29 AM »
EL...thanks for your insight into all has happened to your friends and family in Colombia.  I think we sometimes lose touch if we don't hear the real human side of these tragidies.  My buddy from college was shot in the head in Louisiana a couple of years ago.  I can't imagine losing 3 friends that way.  I wish you the best.
 
Micky...I again say props to you for showing restraint - in the face of some bad press for your city.
 
Robert...your place and lady are from the Phillippines - correct ???  - is PIs really that dangerous ???

Parts of the Philippines really are dangerous--there are parts where no caucasian, let alone any US citizen, would dare tread. There are a number of very extreme Islamic groups, some closely affiliated with al qaeda, who want total political, economic and religious control. Not that they were the first settlers there, but there's lot of natural resources still untapped--money to be made.That said, you clearly know where those places are, namely the autotomous region of Muslim Mindanao (ARMM). That's a rather small part, percentage of the Philippines. You can google it and type in Ampatuan massacre and I'm rather sure that you too, will never go there.
 
On the other hand, the New People's Army (NPA) is a communist group (yes, the commies are still alive and kicking) and they are much more widespread and  vary widely in terms of terroristic intent. I can usually tell who's a Muslim and outside of ARMM areas, including where our house and where my wife's family lives, they are few in number and most are generally somewhat friendly--almost like republican VS democrats. I think there would be a lot less NPA if there wasn't so much corruption and poverty over there.
 
But you usually can't tell a communist there any more than you can differentiate a republican from a democrat in the USA. But there are some NPA cells and Muslim groups that will take heads and bomb public places. A bakery in my wife's home town had a grenade rolled into it and over the last 10-15 years, a few churchs and bus stations also bombed--the NPA was responsible, but they typically try to blame it on rogue PI military and police groups.
 
The NPA's issues are mainly with the PI Govt, not with individuals--although they try to alienate the people from the PI govt. My wife's village was basically wiped out in a freak 'super typhoon' w/ 160 MPH sustained winds Dec. 2nd, killing over 2000 people in the immediate area and they still don't have electricity. That's partially because its a remote area, the NPA steals transformers enroute and other wise tries to sabotage govt. efforts. In the past, my family insisted that I not take the public bus for the 3 hour ride from Davao City to their home, but I have done so in recent years. There are places around there that have a lot of NPA, but they're generally remote, rural areas--up in the mountains.
 
Generally speaking, outside of ARMM areas that again are clearly defined, the bigger picture shows that overall, the Philippines is safer than most US metro areas, in my opinion.
 
In Manila and Cebu City, I observe the same cautions I do in any USA city. I wouldn't carry an expensive camera or wear a lot of gold there. But in Davao City, where our house is, if you are a repeat offender thief or drug user, they tell you to leave town. If the 'bad guys' don't,  'good guys' on motor cycles, wearing bandanas will find them and using a 45 caliber pistol, shoot them dead. That method, criticized by the United Nations, really effectively cuts down on repeat offenders and is not needed much at all, as it's so graphic and I don't worry about walking around at any hour of the night there. Saves taxpayer money too.
 
Whether you think you can or think you can't--you're right!

 

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