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Latin International Dating Forums => Latin -> General discussion => Topic started by: Zon on December 04, 2011, 07:10:04 AM

Title: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 04, 2011, 07:10:04 AM
Recently, there was a separate thread where some objected to me stating that the "value of being a man" was higher in Latin American countries.  I am not, necessarily, talking from a deep psychological perspective.   There are hundreds of examples that show this to be true. But some people here think such a claim is gibberish.  Look at this little TV commercial (one of hundreds with the same characterization), and tell me if things have not changed a ton in the last 30 years, tell me if things are not different in Latin America - HAHAHA

=> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMP4PF3DNg8

In the USA, "MEOW" is put on a silver tray, and men are constantly depicted as wanting something they can not have - Even if you are a 9 year old boy talking about your teacher being "cute" ( I am not making this up)

=> http://www.wsoctv.com/news/29910470/detail.html (http://www.wsoctv.com/news/29910470/detail.html)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 04, 2011, 07:19:42 AM
And can you imagine this ever happening in Colombia!!!!!   AND CAN YOU IMAGINE - if the genders were reversed - older guys with younger women!!!!!  $hit!! The FBI would be called in!!!   But, look how the current American culture embraces it ... I am not saying it is right, or wrong - just saying IT IS.

=>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpuyV5SIUNc
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: aconcepts on December 04, 2011, 08:27:05 AM
OhI can tell I am going to like this forum. First of all Zon I could not agree more. My favorite example of the “men on pause” culture (if you can call it culture) of the US is the sit com kick in the nuts: woman kicks man in the groin and the laugh track goes off. Can you imagine a man kicking a woman in the groin? Out punching her in the breasts and the laugh track goes off? WTF is wrong with this picture. Men in the US are Balless. I can’t stand to go back there. They have sunk so low for the do anything for kitty attitude that it is disgusting. I taught Kung fu san soo for several years and it’s a matter of building character and teaching how to connect with the wild man inside, that you use when you fight and F___K. The men I taught were so far removed from the wild man that it took considerable effort to reengage them in their primordial intuitive masculinity. The other day I saw Charles Karouthammer on O Riely (whatever you think about him at least he still has a pair), and he said “Oh, Men are animals”. Yes we are and that is why women love us. Forget what they say, women love to be animalized. Yes they will say I want a man that is detaillista bla bla, but when it comes to what matters most, bed and protection, they want an animal that commands them.

Women belly ache in the US that men are whimps, and they cannot find a man. Da wonder why. Women are prisoners of their own devise, they made men into good little kitty whipped followers and now women are dissatisfied with men in the US. There animals are now domistecated pusy cats.

Here in Latin America I love to watch the men out on Friday night and the women at home. I love to watch the men and their “so what if I do what I do when I want to do it. We (men) all do it that way, so what” attitude. They still have brotherhood here. Women have destroyed the brotherhood in the US. I love that the women will not talk to one another about what they saw their man doing because if they do the other woman says “Ha! Well I saw your man with so and so!” I love that Latin American MEN cheat! That’s what men do. They spread the seed baby. And any of you that disagree need to get the mirror out because; One, you might be so fat and out of shape you need that mirror to see if you still have a sack; Two, You need to take a long look in it face to face and ask yourself what has become of your masculinity that you will so easily cave for the kitty.

I live in Latin America because at my age, and I am still in shape, I bang young women all the time. Actually if I was not very picky because I am jaded I could bang a different woman every week (not hookers). I have a 22 year old beautiful woman heads over heals in love with me (and I am more tha twice her age) and she is about a 7.5 and super swwet takes a bus two hours each way to see me twice a week), for play starts the moment she get off the bus and we are in the sack about 30 min to an hour later after some wine and chit chat and lingere presents etc. She says she loves my maturity and confidence. Look I have above average looks and have some experience, but what makes me attractive is my confidence. I speak my mind and I am assertive. I am always me. That does not mean I am selfish. It means I am consitently who I am. I tell them they are beautiful and let them know I want them. Eventually if not sooner, they come around. Yes I buy them pretty little things at times and offer other kind gestures as a friend would. The point is I am not a doormat. I tell them what I want. Then I talk with them as women. I don’t talk to them as if they are goddesses. They are women. Most of them can’t understand normal thinking.

Look if you walk into a place and know that you own it. You own it! Its confidence that women want. They want to feel they are with a man who is a man. Someone that will protect them and bang the bajeezez out of em. All the rest of the crap they tell you is Delilah type of stuff designed to enslave you, you know like Samson and the haircut.

Its really that easy. That is if you have confidence and belive in brotherhood. If you buy that man is nothing without woman then gues what – you are nothing. And you have no confidence. Confidence and a well defined character is what matter most. Women want to know that you are who you are. But men are afraid that they will be rejected for showing their true selves. Aww poor little boys. So Rejected. I love rejection! Rejection means that I am one step closer to my goal. Think about it. And grow a pair.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 04, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
HAHAHHA
Quote
Think about it. And grow a pair.

Well, welcome, and I understand what you are saying.  I think your perspective and input would be valued here since you live in South America ... you obviously would have much to offer.

A word of warning, however, the group here tends to be rather "DEMURE" in their comments about ladies (despite behavior that is often to the contrary).  I expect you are going to receive push back for using the verb "bang" :)

But, seriously, what are your feelings towards relationships / marriage?  And, how have they changed (if they have) since you have lived in South America.  What city are you living in?
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: mambocowboy on December 04, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this: this series of Miller Lite commercials is more evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lZR7SMe6f4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lZR7SMe6f4)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 04, 2011, 02:23:10 PM
Quote
Now does that cover your questions Zon?


YEP!
I think your gonna pretty easily take my position off this board as the brash, arrogant,  truth sayer!  HAHAHAThis place is in great need of new people and perspectives.   As long as they are valid, and yours are, I say WELCOME ABOARD.  What city do you live in?
Title: Zon, keep up the good work!
Post by: Researcher on December 04, 2011, 02:37:19 PM


    In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"....really? and even on television? OMG!

    More groundbreaking info from the great Zon! hahaha!

    Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: beginthebeguin on December 04, 2011, 02:53:23 PM
Hey Zon good call, every time I see that PC Matic commerical on the telly I want to put my foot through the TV set. And my dad who is 87 thinks it's the most digusting of the 'ball buster' genre of television commercials on the TV he has been "subjected to in the last 30 years" (his words). 
Hey I wonder if there is a spanish version showing on Univision or Telemundo?
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Calipro on December 04, 2011, 07:14:17 PM
Recently, there was a separate thread where some objected to me stating that the "value of being a man" was higher in Latin American countries. 

Anybody that would argue that point just isn't paying attention....it starts at birth in Colombia....just look at the way they treat their sons compared to their daughters.

If you don't like the way men are depicted in commercials here in the states.....I don't recommend that you watch this movie Hall Pass 2011

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480687/

Took a super hot calena half my age  to see it and was never more embarrassed to be an american in my life.  I hate movies that show the world just how bad we have it here. jejeje
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 04, 2011, 10:28:57 PM
Anybody that would argue that point just isn't paying attention....it starts at birth in Colombia....just look at the way they treat their sons compared to their daughters.

If you don't like the way men are depicted in commercials here in the states.....I don't recommend that you watch this movie Hall Pass 2011

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480687/

Took a super hot calena half my age  to see it and was never more embarrassed to be an american in my life.  I hate movies that show the world just how bad we have it here. jejeje


      Oh come off it Calipro. How long have men been portrayed as idiots in movies and on television. The reason? Because men don't complain about it. Check out this article:

 http://m.askmen.com/daily/austin_60/65_fashion_style.html

  Is it that guys are idiots or is it that men aren't as sensitive as others? Studies have shown the average man's IQ is 3 to 5 points higher than the average woman's IQ.

   I can't believe that you would be embarassed by a movie...dude it's just a movie. If you are with a woman and embarassed by a movie you must not be that confident in the first place.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: CeeTeeEnn on December 04, 2011, 10:45:06 PM
Although i cannot agree with every point you make, Aconcepts, your quote "If you buy that man is nothing without woman then gues what – you are nothing" is so on-the-ball (typo permitting) it should be the basis of a logical pre-condition for any guy signing up to P-L.

As for the media portraying men as eunuchs... if you cannot abide it, do something about it. Ignore TV ads - it's easy. Blacklist products or channels that demean men. Turn your back on Hollywood and check out Euro Arthouse cinema instead. Kick them all where it hurts - in the pocket.






Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 05, 2011, 06:13:23 AM
Who ever wants to gloss over this as NORMAL, is greatly mistaken.  I am NOT saying it is right, or wrong ... but, how could anybody say it is not real.  You never saw this 20 years ago!

http://www.glennsacks.com/mysterious_decline_where.htm

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/08/16/kay-hymowitz/the-decline-of-men-is-a-womens-issue/

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/04/wolcott200804

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

Scholarly publications, Washington "think tanks", Right wing media, Left wing media ... it is everywhere.  Only those men that LIKE IT, fail to SEE IT.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Alabamaboy! on December 05, 2011, 08:43:56 AM
I would not say that the typical Colobmian guy is so "manly" in many respects. Usually they are major mama's boys who cannot even function without a woman taking care of them, many are irresponsible and do not support their own children. And many of them are more fashion conscious and preoccupied with their skinny jeans and hair styles than many of the women I met there. 

That being said, I see a bigger problem in States with other issues as mentioned by other posters.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 05, 2011, 11:28:48 AM
Who ever wants to gloss over this as NORMAL, is greatly mistaken.  I am NOT saying it is right, or wrong ... but, how could anybody say it is not real.  You never saw this 20 years ago!

http://www.glennsacks.com/mysterious_decline_where.htm

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2011/08/16/kay-hymowitz/the-decline-of-men-is-a-womens-issue/

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/04/wolcott200804

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

Scholarly publications, Washington "think tanks", Right wing media, Left wing media ... it is everywhere.  Only those men that LIKE IT, fail to SEE IT.

     The big question here is not whether anyone fails to SEE IT but who gives a crap? Really, who gives a crap how men are portayed on television?

      Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 05, 2011, 11:34:11 AM
"Needy Losers"

American men have gleefully accepted this position.

We have abdicated our leadership authority and you are simply observing the consequences.

We allow Madison ave. (the advertising companies) and Hollywood to convince us that closet gay metrosexual men are the norm and acceptable and men in general should be de-masculated at every turn in POP culture for the amusement of women.  Why?  Remember most studies show that women make most of the buying decisions.....(what f*cker came up with this statistic?)

We allow our divorce and criminal laws to be changed to favor women in most all circumstances; you can blame our judges and politicians for this, pandering to Feminists and their well funded lobbyist groups.  (Our constitutional right to "Due Process under the Law" does not exist in divorce court)

We allow our children to be raised with the idea that women and men are the same in a marriage; equal in every respect, and reduce the institution of marriage to a generic non gender specific 'partnering'; a financial arrangement between two adults of the proper age.

So whats the problem with this you may ask?

Everyone.....This is the ultimate mind-clusterf*ck!! 

Changing marriages to gender neutral "partners" means that ANY two people can be partners, two men, two women....get it?  This is the last institution that Feminists attacked because it was the most difficult to deconstruct. 

Some men are clueless to the ulterior motives of this "men and women are equal" agenda and are unwittingly tools and mouthpieces for the Feminist agenda.

Once they drink the purple "men and women are equal" kool-aid their brain is turned to the dark side and they will almost kill to support any agenda put forth under the "man and women are equal" agenda.  (The extreme Feminists have made some serious progress!)

So.....Let me break it down and clear the Purple Haze:

Men and women are UNEQUAL, in almost every respect.  Not  a Polictically Correct statement, but the truth!!

We think different, socialize different, are physically different and the list goes on. 

DIFFERENT AND UNEQUAL does NOT imply men are better than women, or that MEN have more rights, or anything foolish like that.  (This is where the Feminists and their sychophats try to trap you) 

Both parties just happen to bring very different, valuable and essential assets to the table.  This is a good thing!

Just in terms of marriage itself, both bring unique and essential skills to the union; men bring their strength, they protect and provide leadership, women nurture and have babies, both together provide the fundamental foundation of a healthy marriage. 

Of course there are many many other subtleties that a father (male) will bring to a marriage and his family, and likewise for  the mother (woman).  A man and a woman are the foundation for a healthy relationship and the provide the optimum environment for the raising of children and the building of strong communities and institutions.

The attacks seen in American pop culture and in  American courtrooms every day are a direct a result of the some very stupid men being co-opted and buying into and profiting from the "men and women are equal" Feminist agenda.

Fems have made it clear.  Males/Husband are NEVER to be equated with LEADERSHIP!  NEVER!!

Why, because when men lead, they (wrongfully) contend, we are flawed.

Feminists want everyone to believe that:

men are tyrants and bullies
men abuse women
men are closet paedophiles and molest girls and boys
men lack leadership skills
men have no compassion

Based on all those "facts" who would want a man (husband) to be a leader??? 

So whats the Feminists solution??

Women (wife) Leaders of course!!

.....just look at the movies and TV, men are just "needy losers".  Those "needy losers" need a strong woman to take over and bring some real leadership skills to the situation!!

Poppycock!!

Guys, its time to break this cycle of stupidity and complacence!

Real men, who understand the situation, have to reassert "manhood" and challenge any laws  that take away and abrogate our rights, publically reject media that portray men as bitchboys and closet gays (metrosexuals) and never allow gender neutral language concerning marriage to be the law of the land.
 
Also, we much teach our sons to recognize these challenges, follow in our footsteps, challenge all the Feminist lies and arguments and end the Feminist mindf*ck.
 
Real must mean LEAD.

You can't SHARE power, because at the end of the day, one person has to be the decider and make the FINAL decision. 
 
 A good women will respect your leadership because she understands and accepts her role...and she will embrace you and trust you and put her life (and the children's) in your hands.....

As the Leader.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: robert angel on December 05, 2011, 11:38:24 AM
     The big question here is not whether anyone fails to SEE IT but who gives a crap? Really, who gives a crap how men are portayed on television?

      Researcher

 
It's not like I think about the way men are treated on USA TV alot. In fact I'm sure a lot of the 'low blows' that are part of the shows and commericials go unnoticed by me, as I'm not looking for them.

 
But it does annoy me somewhat that it's indicative of the fact that the American male has come to be treated as a bit of a buffoon and is often played as a rather spineless and witless character to boot. When I think about it, most of the so called 'leading men' in Hollywood today typically seem kind of weird too---a couple cards short of a full deck.

 
I chosen to 'go my own way', but I won't pretend that the situation doesn't annoy me to some extent, as I don't feel it's good for our nation as a whole, especially not for our children.
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 05, 2011, 02:54:33 PM


      With the economy in the crapper and all the problems that come with it I doubt the way men are portrayed on television is at the top of the list of concerns for anyone.

      The biggest reason I don't care is that I found a solution: Marrying a foreign woman! hahaha! I'm looking like a genius to all my friends who are married to or date AWs. So what do I care how men are portrayed on TV.


      Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Calipro on December 05, 2011, 05:26:34 PM
I would not say that the typical Colobmian guy is so "manly" in many respects. Usually they are major mama's boys who cannot even function without a woman taking care of them, many are irresponsible and do not support their own children. And many of them are more fashion conscious and preoccupied with their skinny jeans and hair styles than many of the women I met there. 

That being said, I see a bigger problem in States with other issues as mentioned by other posters.


I agree with your observations but I don't really think it's a bad thing to be a bit conscious about your looks and dress.


But you have to ask yourself just how did these clueless colombianos ever get so on top of the situation when it comes to their women. And if I had to pick one reason...it would be that they don't marry other guys ex-wives especially if they have his kids and are over thirty.


As a taxista put it to me one day.....you guys come here and marry the women that a colombian gardener would not marry. jajaja!!!


Although an exaggeration for sure.....I got the point.....American guys worried about marrying the youngest hottest thing because they are afraid she will leave them for something better in America makes you look like a "needy loser" in Colombia.


But, who really cares what the reality of the situation in Colombia is.....because after you get her here in the states you'll go from "needy loser" to "freakin genius" overnight..... to your american friends that are getting sex once a month with a rather homely wife and getting disrespected daily by their step children. LOL!!!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 05, 2011, 06:52:48 PM
But, who really cares what the reality of the situation in Colombia is.....because after you get her here in the states you'll go from "needy loser" to "freakin genius" overnight..... to your american friends that are getting sex once a month with a rather homely wife and getting disrespected daily by their step children. LOL!!!

     I know guys like that but I have a mix of single and married friends so a generalization like that is useless. What I can say is you will look like a genius to guys in the US....period. I don't know why many guys in the US don't realize they have options.

     I'm glad to see you are learning Calipro but hey no need to go to a taxista to learn. I'm sure the wife hunters would be glad to help you out.

      Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 05, 2011, 08:22:05 PM

 


But, who really cares what the reality of the situation in Colombia is.....because after you get her here in the states you'll go from "needy loser" to "freakin genius" overnight..... to your american friends that are getting sex once a month with a rather homely wife and getting disrespected daily by their step children. LOL!!!


There is absolutely no doubt once the woman is here and proves to be faithful over a period of time that the 'needy loser' is actually the guy who made the right moves.  I have no ideal how some of my friends can stand the people they are married to, they just don't know the options or are too frightened to actually consider foreign women.  I sometimes wonder what some super successful and handsome man is thinking  when we are talking and the wives are there.  In some cases you can almost see him doing a little 'social comparison' and becoming befuddled. 


Fathertime!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: CeeTeeEnn on December 05, 2011, 10:11:12 PM
"I have no ideal how some of my friends can stand the people they are married to, they just don't know the options or are too frightened to actually consider foreign women."

I beleive there are still strong social pressures in all the Western world discouraging men from outsourcing their marital needs abroad. A guy from a closed small-town society might well fancy the idea but worry about feeling socially isolated once he brings his wife home - he could be labelled by idle talkers as a loser and abuser who cannot find (ergo, put up with) a local woman and consequently be outcast from social events etc. In the cities, thankfully this is less of a problem.  Nonetheless, this entire undertaking is not one for those easily influenced by peer or media pressure.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Bob_S on December 05, 2011, 11:05:32 PM
The biggest reason I don't care is that I found a solution: Marrying a foreign woman! hahaha!
Heard dat!  (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy107.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Brazilophile on December 05, 2011, 11:06:17 PM
Related to how men are treated in the US these days is what was reported this evening.  A 9 year old boy was charged with sexual harassment by his school for telling a classmate that he thought their teacher was cute.

I don't know all the details about this incident but on the surface it sure seems like political correctness between males and females has gone to the Twilight Zone.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 06, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
"I have no ideal how some of my friends can stand the people they are married to, they just don't know the options or are too frightened to actually consider foreign women."

I beleive there are still strong social pressures in all the Western world discouraging men from outsourcing their marital needs abroad. A guy from a closed small-town society might well fancy the idea but worry about feeling socially isolated once he brings his wife home - he could be labelled by idle talkers as a loser and abuser who cannot find (ergo, put up with) a local woman and consequently be outcast from social events etc. In the cities, thankfully this is less of a problem.  Nonetheless, this entire undertaking is not one for those easily influenced by peer or media pressure.


well ctn, i believe you are correct here....in part i think it is a defense mechanism for men/women to make these sort of assertions when they see an slightly older man with a very attractive younger wife....i can understand why this would happen....you are correct if a person is overly concerned about what might be said behind his back, then that man should consider sticking with his less attractive options in the hometown!   for me, i enjoy my role in life and if it ruffles feathers here and there that is a good thing! jaja


Fathertime!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Alabamaboy! on December 06, 2011, 09:43:43 AM

"But you have to ask yourself just how did these clueless colombianos ever get so on top of the situation when it comes to their women. "

Not much to ask or wonder about. It is strictly supply and demand in action. There is a huge number of attractive, available women in Colombia. And not too many marriage or relationship minded guys there. So if you are a woman interested in having a normal long term relationship, home, pet, kids, all that, then your options are very few and far between with Colombian guys. So they seem to just have these women chasing all over them, hoping they can get some kind of stability or some sort of normal relationship.  Even if it is just a slight chance it will actually happen.

And the second factor is that almost all Colombians that I met are very social outgoing people. So they are going to actively search out relationships, even if they are temporary ones while many gringas or women from other cultures have no problem doing their own thing or staying out of relationships. Even if the guy is a momma's boy or no cash or whatever, something is better than nothing. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of these short term "non-serious" relationships end up with an unwanted pregnancy and the guy splits soon after.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: aconcepts on December 06, 2011, 10:22:47 AM
I see there is a lot of action on this topic. I hope my deleted post inspired some action on what I believe to be THE MOST IMPORTANT TOPIC. THE DENIGRATION, VILIFICATION, BELITTLING OF MEN which is the rot that eats at the foundation of the USA.

It is also what makes people run airplanes into big buildings (that and the unchecked power of the IRS/ whole different subject). Follow me for a second.

Women wear veils in other societies so they cannot appeal to men’s biological need to procreate. They cannot use/abuse those needs if they are covered.

I hear a lot of stuff regarding men using women for sex. Ha! What about women using men for money – through sex by taking advantage of our inherent need to procreate????

I know it sounds different but think about what I wrote there for a second. Reread it.

Muslims cover their women. Why?

Do you think Muslims don’t like looking a nude women. The 9/11 hijackers spent there last night on earth at a strip club.

Its not that they do not like a woman naked body. It is that they fear the power of a woman’s naked body. They feel it needs to be controlled. If not you are looking for trouble. Does anybody remember those Bible stories???

Sex sells right. US women and soon the rest of the world’s women are using the sex sells power to first seduce men into going against their fellow man, and now they have reached positions of power in the media/Hollywood that they are portraying men as dumb and weak.

z_k_g post on this subject was one of the best posts I have ever read regarding the eradications of men being men.

“As a taxista put it to me one day.....you guys come here and marry the women that a colombian gardener would not marry. jajaja!!!”

Why is this so true?” It is because men have sunk so low in the US box that they cannot see any other option inside the box. When they get out of the box, they see that things are different and they run at the first option they see. It’s like being incarcerated for 2 years. As soon as you get out of jail, any woman is attractive.

“I chosen to 'go my own way', but I won't pretend that the situation doesn't annoy me to some extent, as I don't feel it's good for our nation as a whole, especially not for our children.”

This is why I am so worried about this: the children are being character slaughtered, made effeminate before they have a chance to develop a character.

It’s like the way many Arab countries portray Jews to children by giving them comic books that call the bad guy in the story “The Jew.”

In the US the bad guy in the story now is “The Man.” That’s how it reads to the children.

Someone said they are not concerned about men’s portrayal and betrayal. For the kid’s sake, if not their own, they should be.

“Oh come off it Calipro. How long have men been portrayed as idiots in movies and on television. The reason? Because men don't complain about it. “

That is right and they don’t complain about spousal abuse either. Men are routinely struck by women and it is just seen as “routine.” Like the beating of an animal. No, animals have more protection against cruelty than men do. I stand corrected (by myself).

"If you buy that man is nothing without woman then guess what – you are nothing" Yes “belief” and what you hold to be true in your heart, not your spin, is the basis of character development. 

“…, Aconcepts, your quote "If you buy that man is nothing without woman then guess what – you are nothing" is so on-the-ball (typo permitting) it should be the basis of a logical pre-condition for any guy signing up to P-L.”

Men have fallen into the sex trap. The withholding of sex to manipulate men or the giving of sex to manipulate men is veiled prostitution.

Withholding it makes men needy. In healthy societies where there is plenty of sex, and men are not needy. I lived in Cuba for several years on a yacht in the Marina Hemingway. Cuba is full of sex. Full of it. The brotherhood among Cuban men is beautiful. They know they can have sex whenever they want it and would almost never betray their brothers for sex, and the Cuban women are agreeable and like it. They also do not use it as a tool. Why? Because there is too much competition, there is sex everywhere. Too many women that actually like sex for sex. The women in Cuba have been brought up in a more natural and humane way.

Then, there is the sex for gain inside committed marriages/relationships. Has anyone experienced this; “you’ll get none tonight!” It’s all over the TV and is very inhumane. Emotional violence. But it’s mainstream now. It’s accepted that sex is a commodity to be traded inside committed relationships. Just like the woman kicking the man in the groin is accepted for a laugh.

What it really is is veiled prostitution.

I saved this one for last because I agree with it. I also disagree completely regarding the remark that the poster lacked confidence. The original poster has the confidence and courage to speak out against men being portrayed/betrayed as needy losers. The be silent no big deal position is complicit.


“Took a super hot calena half my age  to see it and was never more embarrassed to be an american in my life.  I hate movies that show the world just how bad we have it here. Jejeje”

BTW to the poster who wrote the above (Jejejeje or Jijijiji is a woman’s laugh in my part of Latin America / Jajaja is a man’s laugh / FYI only….

All US men that accept this quietly should be ashamed they do not speak up about this. It’s pitiful. That is why I claimed that my lifelong friends there have been turned into women because they will not speak up or complain about attacking men.

I finish with a word on men’s character and confidence:

Character is by your self definition. You choose it. It is personal. I am not about to define character to you.

I can define confidence to you. Confidence is your ability to remain true to your character (the behavior that defines you) under adverse conditions. When men allow women to change their character for sex, when a man can be seduced to act out of character to please his woman (or anybody else). Than he lacks confidence.

Confidence is what you know you can do. / Cockiness is what you think you can do.

Big difference.

To sacrifice your character for women or sex is to be needy.

Anyone who does that is a looser.

A needy loser.

Look at the men in the movies, they run around overwhelmed by women and the possibility of having sex with them. They do all kinds of asinine things to get next to them. They would walk on their lips through busted glass. The epitome of a needy loser.

I am well sick of it. Men need to unite against this and speak out! Call BS when you see it and tell your kids that you do not approve of the needy loser stereotype. It’s real and it’s dangerous.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 06, 2011, 03:36:36 PM
Then, there is the sex for gain inside committed marriages/relationships. Has anyone experienced this; “you’ll get none tonight!” It’s all over the TV and is very inhumane. Emotional violence. But it’s mainstream now. It’s accepted that sex is a commodity to be traded inside committed relationships. Just like the woman kicking the man in the groin is accepted for a laugh.

What it really is is veiled prostitution.

aconcepts,

You seem to be up on the latest Feminist agenda.

What most men don't realize is that the Fems have a national agenda to force state legislatures to enact laws that will enforce so called "marriage rape". 

This is similar to the onerous date rape statues that have been placed on the books by the fems and their paid off and co-opted male political allies.

For those of us who don't understand the new "date rape" laws passed over the last 10 years, let me explain.

In brief, If you have consentual sex with a woman and she raises no initial objection to your knowledge whatsoever and then days, weeks, months or even years later (there is no legal statues of limitation) she "feels" like she was raped, then she can bring charges against you, legally!

Yes, That's The Fact Jack!

This interpretation of "date rape" based on "feelings" is a direct denial of the males constitutional rights.  Why?  There is no evidence, no way to even know you have commited a crime.  You can be arrested, spend months in jail and your reputation can be destroyed because a woman may "feel" spurned by you not calling her back after a "one nite stand".

This particular battle is already lost, these and similar laws are already on the books.   

But as I mentioned earlier, the Fems are not finished.  They want husbands to be held to the same standard as a "date". 

In other words, if a wife "feels" that her husband has forced her to have sex, she can, at any time she pleases, one day, one week or one year later report the "crime".

Fems want women to dictate when "sex" happens and have ensure the wife is the final decision maker because she can always withhold sex to get her way.   If the man objects, the the wife can threaten to report "marriage rape" to ensure his compliance.   If the husband continues to be a problem and refuses to be cucked or a bitchboy, then she just reports the "marriage rape" and she now cashes in.

Sex is not traded as a commodity......

Sex is Control, and the Fems want women to use it to gain an upper hand in their relationships.

The Feminist agenda is infused in every aspect of American life.  Certain words are demonized and villified in our language and you are attacked if you dare use them.

What words?

king-- A man cannot refer to himself as king of his castle/home/abode- he will be attacked viciously by brain washed men who have drank the Fem "men and women are equal" purple kool-aid. 

leader-- A man cannot be the leader (the person who makes the FINAL decision) in his family- he must be "partners" with his wife (what a pussy).  Any context where a man is implied to lead his family is discouraged and frowned upon.

submissive-- A woman cannot be submissive- need I say more.  This word is at the top of the Fem shyt list. There are many other words, but SUBMISSIVE is the most vilified.  Dare use this word around an American woman and you may wind up like John Wayne Bobbit.

Most American women are not even aware of their role in our demise as real men.  They are just going by script and asserting their equal rights with men.  Our women rejected the traditional roles of women in the workplace and society and embraced the inclusion that is inherent in appreciating women's equal rights.  This was a good thing because we have some talented women that were finally able to bring that talent to the American landscape.  On this level it was a good thing.

But I think that the a lot of American woman did us, their families, and the entire country, a significant disservice when they rejected the traditional family.  When they over corrected and started to choose (encouraged by Fems) careers over homemaking.  Our families suffered.

This "Career Woman" carrot is how the Fems attracted women to join their agenda-  promise them power.  "You can pursue that career, make the big bucks and your husband (or a nanny) can raise the kids."

They have delivered on their promises and American women now dominate not only the landscape of business and corporate America but also at HOME.

Well this is what Fems intended.  They fully recognized that at the end of the day there is no middle ground, and the stakes are very high, they gained the trust and allegience of generations of American women. 

Men must take this challenge just as serious and fight back.

If we don't, we will find ourselves to be 100% of the "grunt" soldiers on the front line fighting the wars, construction workers, plumbers and any and all other work that our "equals" women can't or don't want to do, and women will be the CEO's, Doctors, Engineers and Lawyers.

Our sons will be the prom queens, marry into "partnerships", wear panties and get cucked every Saturday nite by their cougar wives AFTER they cook dinner, put the kids to bed, wash dishes and draw their wives bathwater.

We can complain all day, but its time for Men to be Men.

So...take sides!

Then.....Lead, Follow, or get out of the damn way!!

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 06, 2011, 04:34:16 PM
This is all interesting talk especially about the women holding men over a barrel since they hold the key to procreation...i never really thought about it in those terms...
too many men pussyfoot around with the women, and wind up wasting years/decades of their short lives...


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: jm21-2 on December 06, 2011, 05:08:25 PM
As someone who has read literature from all ages and several countries, and who regularly watches foreign cinema, I'd say....things are pretty much normal. You can go read a 19th century short story with the drunk husband being whacked over the head with a frying pan or whatever any time you want. I'm watching a Korean show where the female lead is a total bitch and forces the male lead to work as her maid/housekeeper, eventually turning down the "alpha males" and going for the wimpy guy who dotes on her.In most countries and most times it's pretty damn similar.


Yes, some laws are not really fair and women spend a lot of money lobbying...but most of that is to do with child support from what I've seen. And that's coming back to bite them as the culture changes. When women figure out how much child and spousal support they will be paying to their "house hubby" they are not thrilled. Date rape accusations are a problem primarily due to the overblown fear of sex offenders.


ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed and stick it in her whenever he damn well pleases....I'm not sure how many guys would agree with that...
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: JimD on December 06, 2011, 05:34:19 PM


ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed...
I would have added "kicking and" before screaming in the above post but a fresh roll of duct tape would address both issues.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 06, 2011, 09:27:47 PM

   I don't know if I agree 100% with this video but it does make some interesting points.


     

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac5ynrMo2oM


       Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 06, 2011, 09:43:15 PM
ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed and stick it in her whenever he damn well pleases....I'm not sure how many guys would agree with that...

Jm,
 
I would never advocate or condone forcing sex on any woman and my post does not imply or suggest that, period.
 
Sex and Love should be freely given by both sides.  And as far as the spouse is concerned, she knows her responsibility as you wife. She should live up to it freely without threat, coersion or duress, or end the relationship.
 
What my post does strongly imply, is that you should carefully chose your wife and your choice should be based on a woman who embraces, understands her role and accepts you as the leader of the house and the final decision maker.  If you make a wise choice initially, then you will minimize (but not totally eliminate) her using the "pussy power play" possibility.
 
Not totally?
 
Well, a woman (or man) should NEVER use sex (or money) as a manipulation tool, but the reality is that most women do to some exent, its too be expected. 
 
The issue is intent.  If her intent does not involve some premeditated agenda to usurp your leadership of the family and turn you into a bitchboy and cuck you, then I really don't see a an issue.  You just gotta be romantic or do the dishes some nites.
 
My post clearly suggests that if a woman resorts to 'pussy power play" to usurp your leadrship then you should either correct her inappropriate behavior (an impossible task if she has been co-opted by the Fems) or end the relationship. 
 
Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: CeeTeeEnn on December 06, 2011, 11:40:09 PM
Interesting times we have here on P-L...

The post aconcepts makes describing men as "animals" is difficult to reconcile with my ideas of men standing up to the agenda of misandry in the Western media. I, for one, certainly do not see myself as an animal but as an a more advanced being capable of using my mind to control and manage primitive biological urges. It's not beyond menfolk; it merely requires a strong mind. Hence if women (who are also possessed by similar primitive urges, albeit ones manifesting themselves in subtlely different ways) should ever choose to use sexual rationing as a "weapon" against us (apologies to Pat Benatar) then we are surely in a position to reciprocate if need be. Indeed, the very existence of this forum, coupled to numerous statistical analyses showing an over-abundance of single women in most Western cities, is surely evidence for this already happening on a macroscopic scale.

While the subject of rape (of any description within marriage or otherwise) is a very serious one, I am quietly confident that any subvertive moves to use rape as a legal weapon against menfolk will be thwarted by the safeguards already built into most modern legal systems. For example, here in the UK a jury trying a rape case must be convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty before returning their verdict. The prosecuting authorities and legal professionals are fully aware of this, and the difficulty in proving a man's guilt in cases where one person's word stands against another's is a major obstacle (for better or worse ) for any woman hoping to use rape as a legal weapon against her partner. Moreover, I believe that any legal moves to lower the burden of guilt in such cases would most certainly fall foul of constitutional safeguards put in place to protect the presumption of a defendant's innocence. For reasons such as these, rape continues to have one of the lowest conviction rates of any of the "major" crimes comitted here in the UK - thankfully our jurours still have the common sense to conclude that a woman accusing her partner of rape is at best either one who allowed herself to be put into an uncomfortable position in the first place (i deliberately include those in arranged marriages) or at worst a vindictive harlot.

As for the roles of media and advertising in spreading misandry, I am also conservatively optimistic. We already see the internet decimating the power and influence of the music record labels. In the near future we will surely see the same happening to Hollywood and TV channels as broadband democratises the media and allows us all to choose exactly what content to consume, and manage the flow of advertising accordingly. Recent reports all seem to point at steady declines in revenue from TV advertising on commercial channels; something the current Western economic recession (don't get me started..) will surely exacerbate. Further to this, we are also seeing the rise of male-orientated TV channels; and example is Dave in the UK, though many sat/cable sports channels could be viewed similarly. Though i don't follow such channels actively, I would suggest that there is surely scope for enterprising advertisers to pander to men's sense of gratification by portraying women in their ads, aimed for these channels, as sexy/quiet/cooperative/alluring/exotic etc. - everything that women shown in the mainstream media are not. As well as bringing a welcome breath or fresh air, such a ruse would give a nasty poke in the eye to those with misandrist agendas!

And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 07, 2011, 06:12:54 AM
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 07, 2011, 09:57:21 AM
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.

Zon,

Good points worth investigating.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: jm21-2 on December 07, 2011, 11:31:04 AM
ZKG,


The statutes you mentioned previously (date rape and marital rape) are usually only dealing with the issue of consent. If there is someone who is so dead-set against that as it appeared from your prior posts, one would think you would want the consent issue removed, especially in the marital context, thus making non-consensual sex perfectly legal in marriage. I have a feeling you simply don't know what you're talking about though.


Zon,


There are plenty of studies that also say a single father is a better parent than a single mother (I suspect due to it being more difficult for a man to get custody). Yes more women are going to college, but a college degree is worth less and less. Skilled laborers such as plumbers and electricians already are making much more than college grads and many professionals and will continue to make more as higher education becomes more and more worthless. Perhaps guys are actually on top of their game with that one. In China with the one child policy you had families picking boys over girls....and with less girls the girls could be more demanding of future spouses.


The recent changes are more of a pendulum swing than a revolution.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: JimD on December 07, 2011, 11:54:27 AM
La femme chilena:
"Do you know what the difference between a politician and a lady is?" President Pinera asked at the closing meeting in Tuxtla.
"When a politicians says 'Yes', he means 'maybe', when he says 'maybe', he means 'No', and if he says 'No', he's not a politician," he continued.
"When a lady says 'No', she means 'maybe', when she says 'maybe', she means 'Yes', and if she says 'Yes', she's not a lady'," he said, as some in the audience laughed.
'Shameful remark'
Opposition Senator Ximena Rincon said the president had brought shame on Chile and asked him to outline his government's view of women.
"Remarks like these are an affront to women and an embarrassment for this country, in terms of gender politics, they set us back some 20 years," she said.
She also asked Women's Minister Carolina Schmidt to comment.
Ms Schmidt wrote on her Twitter account that the president liked to crack jokes, but that this one had not amused her.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16063229 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16063229)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 07, 2011, 12:57:08 PM
ZKG,
The statutes you mentioned previously (date rape and marital rape) are usually only dealing with the issue of consent.

The issue of consent is no longer required to convict or for a grand jury to find reasonable cause to bring an indictment against a man for rape, attempted rape, sexual battery or many of the new sexual crimes put on the books for this exact purpose.

A woman merely has to tell police investigators that she "feels" like she was raped, even after she concedes that she agreed to the sexual encounter.

If there is someone who is so dead-set against that as it appeared from your prior posts, one would think you would want the consent issue removed, especially in the marital context, thus making non-consensual sex perfectly legal in marriage.

I clarified my position Jm and now you are simply pandering.

Once again, I have not written anywhere, hinted, inferred, argued or suggested that anyone be forced to do anything without their 100% consent.

I have never argued and will never ague that man can DEMAND or EXPECT unconsensual sex with his wife.

If you read my post, what I am dead set against are laws that are unconstitutional, illegal and unfair towards men.  I am also dead set against gender based prosecution that assumes guilt based on someone's feelings. 

The last time I checked there was no law that protects your feelings, yet feelings can now be used as the the basis for prosecution on the charge of a sexual related crime.

This is unfair and a violation of basic due process, equal protection under the law and the basic assumption of innocent until proven guilty.

I have a feeling you simply don't know what you're talking about though.

Your feelings are your feelings, P-L is a great place to express them.

I have a feeling you don't know much about this particular aspect of criminal law and your questions about my posts make that obvious. 

Do some research like any good lawyer.  Enlighten yourself with some relevant case law you may learn something and your "feelings" about my post may change.

Also, if you need further clarification of my position, just ask directly, no need to infer anything.

But I will make this clear to you, because what you continue to suggest about my position is quite irresponsible in light of my explicit clarification in my previous post.

NOTHING I have written in 2 years on P-L would imply or suggest that any man has the right to force a woman to do anything whatsoever. 

Further, If a man (or woman) does not have 100% consent from the other person, and they fully understand this, then I consider that encounter forced and illegal, irregardless if they are married or not.

Once again, I have spoken very clearly and adroitly about this issue.

Whatever additional inferences you have come to are your OWN and are INCORRECT.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: jm21-2 on December 07, 2011, 01:53:05 PM
ZKG,


Can you at least give a state or states? I've never heard of date rape being defined that way. It used to be that there was often a requirement that the woman actively resist sex in order for the guy to be charged with rape. Date rape statutes were put in place to deal with the situation where the woman said no but didn't resist (for example out of fear it would be worse if she resisted), or was incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol and so didn't resist.


I did a search on google for date rape and every definition I saw described date rape as forced or non-consensual sex.


It also used to be that having forced sex with your wife was legal in pretty much every state. (EDIT: Re-read your post and saw this question answered) If you think that if a spouse rapes the other spouse it should be a crime (which is not clear from your posts) then you have been brainwashed by the feminists.  If you don't think it should be a crime then say it clearly.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 07, 2011, 04:35:02 PM
Jm,

I have clarified every point you have raised concerning my position.

Also, you obviously are missing the entire point of my post.

You seem to be focused on a singular objective of refuting and drawing tangential conclusions concerning whether, in fact, consent is necessary to levy sexual assault charges.

Then, you close with an accusation of my brainwashing?

Jm, If you force (without 100% consent) a woman or man to have sex then that is rape and a crime, period no matter what the circumstances, married or not. 

This position is the shared by most all moral people in a civilized society. 

Good moral judgement does NOT align me with, or prove that I am, "brainwashed" by any particular group or organization as you have indicated. 

You logic is flawed and quite frankly, ABSURD.

The discussion is ABOUT "needy losers", and in that context my original post is very clear:

My argument:

Women use sex to manipulate and gain power thereby rendering men to be "needy losers".

In today's political environment the Feminists have influenced the passing of laws that allow for illegal and unfair prosecution of men based on a woman's "feelings" after the fact. 

Law enforcements or grand juries can levy any number of sexual assault charges ranging from misdemeanors assault to felony rape even if she "fully consents" to the initial sexual act and changed her mind and waited to report the "crime" some time later.

The charge of sexual assault can be levied even though there was full "consent" and participation or even marriage, if a woman feels, a day, week, month or year later that she was sexually violated. 

In other words, a female can now change her mind and her "full consent" to "non consent" after the fact!  That's f*cked up!

This open door is a recipe for abuse. 

In my opinion, this was premeditated by Fems to have another tool to take leadership and enforce their position and render men "needy losers".

So, If an non-consensual violent sexual assault has take place, that's a crime, whether you are Feminist or not.

If a consensual act has taken place and a wife (or gf) can now arbitrarily use the perpetual "threat of prosecution" against a man who pisses them off or don't do as they are told, then I consider that's "pussy power play" and an integral weapon against men.

Our present laws allow this type injustice.

I consider this wrong, illegal and in my opinion, Unconstitutional.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 07, 2011, 05:17:52 PM
Fem Power Plays

Consensual but charged:

Kobe Bryant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant_sexual_assault_case

Julian Assange
http://blog.sfgate.com/abraham/2010/12/05/wikileaks-julian-assange-rape-charge-for-not-using-condoms/

Just a Lie

Duke LaCrosse
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 07, 2011, 06:53:48 PM
Jm I'm sorry to tell you that you have much to learn about reality of this subject.
You are not alone in that.
However you could do yourself a good service to come up to speed with how these thigns are implemented in the courts.
What Zulu is telling you is spot on but you do not need to take his word for it. That is what the internet is for.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 07, 2011, 07:28:24 PM
It is not a USA thing, it is a Western word thing and it has been going on for far too long.

http://blogs.theage.com.au/moderntimes/archives/2008/09/open_season_on_men.html (http://blogs.theage.com.au/moderntimes/archives/2008/09/open_season_on_men.html)

However the national past time of man bashing is the least of our worries.

In fact here in Australia it is literally open season on men. There have been several cases in the last year in different states of women murdering their husbands and serving no jail time at all. In most cases it was because the man was going to leave them. I suspect they realised too late that they had married into a prison.

In one case the man was accused of domestic violence. No evidence of domestic violence was ever produced and of course the man was dead and therefore unable to defend himself. She stabed and multilated him over a period of at least an hour while he slowly died of torture. There was some evidence that he must have been begging her to spare his life. She was not even given a conviction.

In one case a woman decided her husband was having an affair. No evidence of an affair was ever produced. She poured fuel on his penis and set him alight. He died of horrific burns to most of his body. She was conviced only of manslaughter and served no time in jail at all.

In another case a man told his wife he was leaving her. His crime: he ripped up a photo of the two of them. She stabed him 15 times. She actually wrote a note admitting that if she couldn't have him no one could have him. She claimed her emotional state meant that she was not responsible for her actions. She served no time at all.

Thousands of fathers are ruined and loose their children here every week because his ex-wife claims "I feel threatened". No evidence of any violence of any kind or any allegation of violence is required. Only that the ex-wife claims to feel threatened.

So when I tell you it is open season on men here. I mean exactly that.
Open season.

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 07, 2011, 07:35:46 PM
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.

I agree with zon on the idea that these changes are not a fad. The rest of his post is nonsense or shall I say "zonsense"...same thing. I think JM has some valid points when looking at the whole picture. The reason I don't worry too much about it is because people don't seem to seek to change anything unless they are directly affected by it. Look at the Tea Party movement and the recent OWS movement. There have always been problems with our political and economic system but no one really gave a crap until these problems showed up on people's doorsteps. It's the same thing for men. Men know that laws are being passed that are heavily influenced by feminists but they let it slide. Things are going to have to get worse before they get better. Meanwhile, I'm sitting back with my arm around my foreign wife watching the show!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 07, 2011, 09:24:26 PM
I agree with zon on the idea that these changes are not a fad. The rest of his post is nonsense or shall I say "zonsense"..


you just coined a new phrase old man! 


Fathertime!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: aconcepts on December 11, 2011, 08:06:00 AM
 Researcher, your justification for things remaining the same is the worst kind of rationalization, the kinds that promotes static behavior. Oh, you are just there watching haha. Things will have to get worse hahah. Men or people never do anything until their selfishness is threatened, oh, it just zonsense. Can you be any more passive/negative(which by the way according to Taoist philosophy are female traits (Yin)? But then again as we get older estrogen levels rise in men.


Here a consciousness is being raised and you pupu it.


“The reason I don't worry too much about it is because people don't seem to seek to change anything unless they are directly affected by it.”


That is the exact reason you should worry. And more importantly get up and do something about it.
The world changes one person at a time. You are the most effective agent of change. If you act.


Do you read this stuff you write before you post it. Look I don’t post if I got nothing to add to the plot. You post this stuff just to be caught up in the vacuum of the progression. It’s more like a spoke in the wheel. You and Jim just don’t get it. More concerned with your point of views and your rightness than the very real male character assassination that is happening in western cultures. Clearly you two put your self-importance above the most serious problem. Pure selfishness.


What ZKG is talking about when he clearly defines the problems and his views of them is feelings are no reason to justify charging someone with a crime. In my deleted post I said, to get over thin skin.


Women don’t. They stew about it and then plot. They tell themselves stories and believe them. Then by telling the same story to themselves over and over the wound-up offense become so large and they chose to FEEL so abused that they lash out. Yes I am yelling that the emperor has no clothes. So will I be censured for it?


It was spot on what that president said about politicians and women. US women really get a rise (and I mean that all puns intended) when I say to them “don’t worry I speak chick talk.” That is a murky language where this means that and feelings are as important as logic.


Why women do not like what the president said is that it addresses an intuitive part of them, as opposed to a politicians actions which is done for a logical reason. Women think/behave in that way because of an organic reason. When that weakness/defect (and yes it is a weakness/defect) is exposed, they object. They call foul. You are not allowed to yell, “the emperor has no clothes.” You are just supposed to be a good little man and keep your mouth shut while everyone sees the issue  - but you just can’t speak it.


CTN wrote what I think may be the most important paragraph in this thread.


“And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.”


Men continually cave to women. I don’t know if I made this point in my PL deleted post (which I still have no idea as to why it was deleted or as to what the forum rules are???/ I am assuming women complained or a pairless male. And yes I sent an email asking why which was never answered), but so many men buy into the happy wife/happy life BS.



There is a huge difference between happy and satisfied. Your wife maybe happy if you are a yesy man, yes mami, yes putsy, yes boo, yes goddess, but she will never feel satisfied by it.


Satisfaction is a lasting deep feeling the touches security issues.


Women want to be commanded. They want to be led. Just like children, they find security in a man’s leadership.


Its part of being submissive. Its part of being Yin. Its part of being feminine organically. Unless a woman feels security through a man’s leadership in a relationship, she will be insecure. She can be happy with getting her way and still feel insecure. Until she feels secure and protected by a man, she will never feel satisfied.


So men, assume your masculinity and do as CTN suggested. Be a manly man not a girly man. Your male and female children will thank you for it. Your woman will thank you. Don’t idly stand by and wait for the next guy to do it while you hold your woman’s hand and chuckle.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Brazilophile on December 11, 2011, 09:45:46 AM
CTN wrote what I think may be the most important paragraph in this thread.

“And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.”

Men continually cave to women.  ...   So men, assume your masculinity and do as CTN suggested. Be a manly man not a girly man. Your male and female children will thank you for it. Your woman will thank you. Don’t idly stand by and wait for the next guy to do it while you hold your woman’s hand and chuckle.

I have a question for Aconcepts, Zon, Zulu, V_Man, and any other men who complain about American women's behavior toward American men and American society's current treatment of men.  Have you thought about going ex-patriot?

Spending the rest of your life challenging the infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional behavior of American women is a form of 'caving in' in itself.  In my opinion, it is the worst form of 'caving in' because it means immersing yourself in a cesspool of negative behaviors on both your and the woman's parts! 

Why not move to a country or society which treats its men with more dignity and respect, (or at least with the degree of respect you need), and spend your life trying to achieve positive things?   The term 'Vote with Your Feet!' was coined for a very good reason.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: beginthebeguin on December 11, 2011, 10:30:27 AM
I have know a few ex-pat Brits and they have no illusions about leaving Britain, I think many of us males in the EE.UU. are just beginning to wake up the the fact that things 'could' be better overseas, compared to what is here now. I really don't see cultural morays getting any better for men here. 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 11, 2011, 10:36:37 AM


Spending the rest of your life challenging the infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional behavior of American women is a form of 'caving in' in itself.  In my opinion, it is the worst form of 'caving in' because it means immersing yourself in a cesspool of negative behaviors on both your and the woman's parts! 
 


Hey brazilophile (S),


i really don't think a man should take all the american women off the table....there really are a lot of nice american women also with varying personalities...i've concluded that it is the individual american/western man that makes the difference....


i think moving to SA is a good option though for many men because the options open up for younger more attractive ladies and i can see why a slightly older man would want to use that opportunity.


Fathertime! 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: CeeTeeEnn on December 11, 2011, 11:53:58 AM
I agree that behaviour that is "infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional" should ideally be ignored; it may be challenged "economically" only where necessary. After all, we are not life coaches. Although such behaviour may be prevalent among the native Western populations, once the front door is closed it should no longer be an issue assuming a guy knows how to manage both himself and his relationship with his partner, overseas or not.

The issue of abandoning ship and moving overseas is of course a separate one. Some guys already choose to do i for love. But I'm pretty sure this century will also see successive waves of brain drains as the best from the West move to start new lives in various developing countries for reasons of economic prosperity and quality of life. The UK, currently plummeting back into the third world, could lead the way in this exodus; a few West European countries could well follow if the € tanks. The thought of a talent drain taking people away from the US to Latin America or Asia is a bewlidering one to me but, judging from some of the post i read here, perhaps not incredulous.

After all, when you turn up at a party only to find the best girls taken, the food & drink gone, the music rubbish, gatecrashers milling around and the guests becoming increasingly drunk, stoned or edgy... it's time to move on and find a party that's just starting :)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 11, 2011, 01:46:37 PM
I have a question for Aconcepts, Zon, Zulu, V_Man, and any other men who complain about American women's behavior toward American men and American society's current treatment of men.  Have you thought about going ex-patriot?

Spending the rest of your life challenging the infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional behavior of American women is a form of 'caving in' in itself.  In my opinion, it is the worst form of 'caving in' because it means immersing yourself in a cesspool of negative behaviors on both your and the woman's parts! 

Why not move to a country or society which treats its men with more dignity and respect, (or at least with the degree of respect you need), and spend your life trying to achieve positive things?   The term 'Vote with Your Feet!' was coined for a very good reason.

Brazilophile,

Thats my long term plan.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 11, 2011, 01:55:50 PM
I agree that behaviour that is "infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional" should ideally be ignored; it may be challenged "economically" only where necessary. After all, we are not life coaches. Although such behaviour may be prevalent among the native Western populations, once the front door is closed it should no longer be an issue assuming a guy knows how to manage both himself and his relationship with his partner, overseas or not.

The issue of abandoning ship and moving overseas is of course a separate one. Some guys already choose to do i for love. But I'm pretty sure this century will also see successive waves of brain drains as the best from the West move to start new lives in various developing countries for reasons of economic prosperity and quality of life. The UK, currently plummeting back into the third world, could lead the way in this exodus; a few West European countries could well follow if the € tanks. The thought of a talent drain taking people away from the US to Latin America or Asia is a bewlidering one to me but, judging from some of the post i read here, perhaps not incredulous.

As long as we tolerate unfairness and allow Fems to dictate the social agenda then we will continue to slide down the slippery slope. 

Its easy to make the necessary changes, but many men have "bought in" to the idea of "husband and wife" = "marriage partners" and now promote the core Feminist agenda of partnering.

We must educate and deprogram these guys, then actively start to remove the legal and social structures the Fems have put in place.

I can be done.
After all, when you turn up at a party only to find the best girls taken, the food & drink gone, the music rubbish, gatecrashers milling around and the guests becoming increasingly drunk, stoned or edgy... it's time to move on and find a party that's just starting :)

Nice!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: aconcepts on December 11, 2011, 02:38:28 PM
Brazilophile,

I live in Costa Rica and have for many years. An opportunity has arrived that may require me returning to the US for several months out of the year. I am thinking about taking a latina with me. Just thinkng about it for the time i am there.

I have been expatriated on and off for the last 21 years. Steady for the last 10 years. I voted with all 10 toes a long time ago although I still have substancial holdings there.

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 11, 2011, 06:46:00 PM
Quote
it's time to move on and find a party that's just starting

Hell yeah.   I thought that a 6 months there, 6 months here strategy would work.  It only wets my appetite.  2012 is going to be much more full time for me.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: whitey on December 11, 2011, 07:21:45 PM
Hell yeah.   I thought that a 6 months there, 6 months here strategy would work.  It only wets my appetite.  2012 is going to be much more full time for me.

I know what you mean!  But it's probably a little different once you're married, since you bring your colombiana with you.  If I was single, being back in gringolandia would be just wasting time until I could get to Colombia again.

There are some advantages to 6 months in Canada:  I like the changes of season ... would get very bored without it, the weather is nicer here in those 6 months than Barranquilla, we can maintain our Canadian healthcare, and the time accumulates towards both our pensions.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: fathertime on December 12, 2011, 01:34:59 PM
Hell yeah.   I thought that a 6 months there, 6 months here strategy would work.  It only wets my appetite.  2012 is going to be much more full time for me.


What difference does it make?  What are you going to do different in 12 months that you did already do in 6 months per year? Find more 'parties' that are just starting?
I don't understand your apparent glee, but would like to.   :D  I'd like to be a part of the party too! jaja
Fathertime!   
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: chameleon on December 12, 2011, 05:33:14 PM
As long as we tolerate unfairness and allow Fems to dictate the social agenda then we will continue to slide down the slippery slope. 

Its easy to make the necessary changes, but many men have "bought in" to the idea of "husband and wife" = "marriage partners" and now promote the core Feminist agenda of partnering.

We must educate and deprogram these guys, then actively start to remove the legal and social structures the Fems have put in place.

I can be done.
Nice!


Good luck. The reality is that most men are needy losers. Out of all the guys i knew in university, most are pretty whipped now. Very few are willing to say to their woman "you know what? [snip] you, I'm not doing it your way and i don't give a damn if you don't put out for a month." (not in those terms but that is the sentiment). And fwiw the "partner" stuff has very little do with feminazis but with gay rights groups. They want to be able to get married and that is why there is a de-emphesis on gender.


The other reality is that men are falling behind in a number of areas and it's nobody's fault but their own. Who is responsible for graduation rates if not men? I would blame the decline of manufacturing in the US on men (unions) making the US noncompetitive with the rest of the world.


Family court is a different story. I agree that the child comes first but i vehemently disagree with the idea that the child is always better off with the mother, and that she should get custody except in rare circumstances. If a man has a successful career and makes 100k+/yr and the wife makes 35k doing administrative work, is the wife really a better role model? Is she more suited to raising the kid by default? Most men get hammered because they have to bring the 35k/yr wife up to the living standards of a couple earning 135k/yr so that nothing changes for the kids. That when the man ends up in a studio apartment and in some cases that might be the right decision but i don't htink it should be in all cases. Were there more risk to the women, there may be a drop in the divorce rate. After all, they initiate over 60% of divorces so that should say something.

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: beginthebeguin on December 12, 2011, 06:35:07 PM
cameleon sez
Quote
I would blame the decline of manufacturing in the US on men (unions) making the US noncompetitive with the rest of the world.
You are really painting with a very broad brush there. I would not say that is the ONLY reason, or even the MAIN reason. That would be the subject of a thread of it's own.   
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: chameleon on December 12, 2011, 07:27:00 PM
no, it's not the only reason, but it's a contributing factor and the point i'm making is not that unions single-handedly killed manufacturing, but that the women's movement isn't responsible for the decline of men in the workforce and woman's ascent. Men played a big part in their own decline.


FWIW though Right to work states are doing quite well in manufacturing (whereas Michigan is a wasteland), but then you have things like the NLRB forcing boeing's hand on the machinist's union thing so that they don't lose a billion dollar investment in SC. How will that affect other major employers' decisions? It's a big mess.



Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Brazilophile on December 12, 2011, 07:47:54 PM
Thanks to those who replied to my question of going ex-patriot.  It is my intermediate plan.
 
 I don't believe that the social situation for most men in the US is going improve anytime soon despite any men's movements that may come about.  Society supports women to an extent that they don't need men in their lives.  American women may want men in their lives, but the type of man they want and the terms they require are unpalatable for a certain type of man. 
 
 A theme I came across in Brazil was that people are tired of working so hard for so little.  Life in Brazil is not easy for 98% of the population and particularly hard for most women.  A man who shows regular, steady, work habits, doesn't drink his paycheck away, doesn't gamble his paycheck away, doesn't spend week-ends in termas, doesn't hit his wife/girlfriend, and takes care of his children, will be shown SERIOUS attention by most women in Brazil.  The type of man that is not respected here in the US because he is not rich enough, handsome enough, young enough, does not have a high status job, or doesn't tow the feminist line enough, is highly sought after in Brazil.  Average and ignored in the US is above average and valued in Brazil.
 
 I believe that US societal attitudes towards men will only change after enough American women get too tired of being alone.  When average women find themselves one of 10 million competing for a handful of handsome, young, rich men (a la Mark Zuckerberg, Sergei Brin, Steve Jobs, etc.) and FAILING, and the one woman that 10 million barely employed car mechanics are running after, and finding NO available men between those two extremes, then something will click.  Either women will have to share a decent man from the middle, or they will have to changes themselves to become more attractive to decent men or to inspire more low achieving men to improve themselves.
 
 Given the way many women are turning to pets for companionship, that day is a LONG way off!
 
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: CeeTeeEnn on December 12, 2011, 08:24:07 PM
I share your synopsis, Brazilophile. This is a social problem that now affects all Anglophonic countries and is contributing in turn to our social breakdown, not to mention our collective economic woes and declining global influence. I too agree that men are ultimately to blame for all this. They released the reigns of power to allow misandrists corrupt the mass media and legal systems here. The only "comfort" I take from this is knowing that it was not my generation of men that allowed this to happen but the one(s) before. Nonetheless, it's sure as hell down to my generation to try and do something about it.

Most regretfully, i also agree that any turn around is at best decades away and at worst unachieveable. Sure, some western women will attempt to turn the tide and I wish them well in this. But a significant number will turn to eachother for companionship and/or, as you rightly mention, turn to those dreaded pooches; if there is one thing that turns me off 100% stone dead when it comes to dealing with Anglo/Euro women (not exclusively our women - many Latinas fall for this idiocy too) it's dog ownership. Also, a growing number are now taking our lead and heading to the third world to find men, though i suspect a disproportionally greater number are finding themselves scammed and screwed in the process!

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: aconcepts on December 12, 2011, 08:30:14 PM
B Phile-
 
"A man who shows regular, steady, work habits, doesn't drink his paycheck away, doesn't gamble his paycheck away, doesn't spend week-ends in termas, doesn't hit his wife/girlfriend, and takes care of his children, will be shown SERIOUS attention by most women in Brazil.  The type of man that is not respected here in the US because he is not rich enough, handsome enough, young enough, does not have a high status job, or doesn't tow the feminist line enough, is highly sought after in Brazil.  Average and ignored in the US is above average and valued in Brazil."
 
Awesome. man if that does not hit the nail on the head tha nothing does.
 
Don't forget vibrators. I have heard that its the number one selling item on the internet. I don't really know but that is what I heard.
 
You know women are responsible for culture. If the women are not honorable the culture suffers. It also has to do with men valuing slutty behavior. Like the bible says, there is a time for everything. Its the prolonged adolecense and where it was men prolonging adolesent behavior, now it is women doing so. This is poisioness as it has always been the women that were the glue, the fabric of the family. When they go Playgirl especially for extended periods of time, society suffers.
 
In that respect B - Phile I disagree with you. yes men are whimpy but women have abandoned family values. Something that is intrinsic to being feminie: motherhood.
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 12, 2011, 08:32:01 PM
Please note that I am not American.
Yes I have gone Ex-pat more than once and yes I'd do it again.
Yes it is a trend worldwide for men to do this to leave feminism behind.

I have many female friends here. Several of them want to know all about what girl I'm dating, etc, etc. Last week one of these female friends said to me:
"You always like the foreign ones and now you are going to bring them into our country."
I smiled.
She gets it.

You see men are doing three things. They are moving away from the most feminised countries and they are importing women. Thirdly some are sort of disenguaging from society. Therefore the pool of available, successful and desirable men is gradually strinking for the single feminised female. Gradually she finds she has more competition. At this point in time, she is more likely to be single because she can't just switch off her feminised conditioning over night. She is conflicted within herself. Her conditioning hasn't prepared her to attract and keep the most desirable man.
However the next generation in learning earlier in life that if she wants a man she needs to compete for one. She is going to have to make some adjustments.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: chameleon on December 12, 2011, 08:41:19 PM
^^ I'm not convinced that will happen but those relationships will fail for the same reason that their relationships with men here do. Ultimately, the guys they bring in won't live up to their unrealistic expectations and they'll tire quickly of supporting them and the younger men will cheat like crazy.


I've mentioned it before on here but i was dating a woman that dumped her ex because he wasn't advancing fast enough in his career. Obviously, I dumped her after having a bit of fun.


V_man, the # of men actually going outside their own city or country is a tiny insignificant amount. Don't get your hopes up.


That said, what do you care about the fate of other men? I'll enjoy with smug satisfaction what goes on around me. If people can't figure out what's good for them, tough luck!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 12, 2011, 10:57:33 PM
Chameleon, people in other developed countries travel much more than people from the USA.
Less than 5% of people in the USA even have a passport. Here it is sort of obligatory to travel to another country at some point in your life. I know a lot of people and I only know one guy that has not travelled to another country. As a result, we all think that he's nice but he can't be entirely right in the head. He is a guy that doesn't earn much. I've never even heard of a white collar guy who never travelled overseas. Some one like that would be a bit of a freak here. Here if you have never left the country then you are either under 25 or poor and uneducated or about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Marriage to a foreign woman is not insignificant in this part of the world. For example, more than half the married guys at my work are married to a foreign wife.
Obviously the percentage is much smaller in the general population but it is very common. Very common. Particularly in the major cities and particularly among the above average income guys.
At least the same percentage of guys have moved away.
So yeah the man drought is very real in this part of the world for any woman wanting to marry up.

Unfortunately (for them) most women are struggling to adjust to the new demographics.

However I agree with you in principle. It is going to take a long time and I'm not going to wait up.

I do tell other guys. This can only benefit us all. The more guys that listen up, the more women there will be completing for the pool and the weaker is the power base for the feminist ideology.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 13, 2011, 01:17:57 AM
Chameleon, people in other developed countries travel much more than people from the USA.
Less than 5% of people in the USA even have a passport. Here it is sort of obligatory to travel to another country at some point in your life. I know a lot of people and I only know one guy that has not travelled to another country. As a result, we all think that he's nice but he can't be entirely right in the head. He is a guy that doesn't earn much. I've never even heard of a white collar guy who never travelled overseas. Some one like that would be a bit of a freak here. Here if you have never left the country then you are either under 25 or poor and uneducated or about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Marriage to a foreign woman is not insignificant in this part of the world. For example, more than half the married guys at my work are married to a foreign wife.
Obviously the percentage is much smaller in the general population but it is very common. Very common. Particularly in the major cities and particularly among the above average income guys.
At least the same percentage of guys have moved away.
So yeah the man drought is very real in this part of the world for any woman wanting to marry up.

Unfortunately (for them) most women are struggling to adjust to the new demographics.

However I agree with you in principle. It is going to take a long time and I'm not going to wait up.

I do tell other guys. This can only benefit us all. The more guys that listen up, the more women there will be completing for the pool and the weaker is the power base for the feminist ideology.

  Good post VMan. I agree with you. If you look at the big picture it is really social evolution. Where men and women are in the western more developed world is a result of how things play out when you have prosperity.
I realized that a long time ago and didn't see it getting better. I think men and women in the US are just lost when it comes to relationships. Women are so wrapped up in the quest for independence they don't know how to give in a relationship. Men are also lost and confused when it comes to relationships as well.

     I don't see the feminist movement as a bad thing but there have been some negative side effects that's for sure. Marriage seems to have been a casualty and relationships as well. I think any guy in the US should start with himself and define what it means to be a man, for himself. Forget what society tells him and understand that being alone is better than being anything other than himself. Once I realized and lived these things I was able to "chase" women from a position of strength. Knowing I didn't "need" a woman I was able to go after what I "wanted" in a relationship.
To me this is evolving. I didn't marry a foreign woman to go back in time. I simply looked at my options and went after what I wanted.

 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Rocaro on December 13, 2011, 03:03:34 AM
Many men have to stop the pedestalization of women. Women are Hypergamous. They've already got levels of self esteem too high thanks to sources like facebook where they have legions of males trying to relate to them, seeking approval and too much complimenting. The feminist infiltrated structures have made these women have the freedom to chase the Alpha males until a later age despite the improbability of having them commit, and get the Beta providers to bankroll them after the divorce. The Betas responsible for much of the forward innovation in society are becoming pissed off that they are inadvertently funding feminism.


As stated, when you stop chasing and quit relying on the woman as a source of your internal state, and not being focused on the outcome of these interactions you magnify your attraction; a place where you are yourself -your best self that you've honed with experience and focusing on other passions that put you on a higher chair than the woman you talk to. A deep identity change is required.


This maybe entertaining: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4)



Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 13, 2011, 06:03:05 AM
Quote
This maybe entertaining

Well, it would be funny if it were not grounded in some alarming truths - other parts are off base. I would never hit a woman.  But, I am not too blind to see societal changes. 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 14, 2011, 11:56:06 PM
Given the way many women are turning to pets for companionship, that day is a LONG way off!

These women are called "cougars".

Their "pets" are naive, stupid, horny and ignorant twenty and thirty something young men!

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 15, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
     I don't see the feminist movement as a bad thing but there have been some negative side effects that's for sure.

I may catch heat for this but I agree that the fem movement was not all bad, but it became an extremist movement with an emphasis on not only taking power from men in politics and family but also marginalizing and debasing "manhood" in general.


Marriage seems to have been a casualty and relationships as well.

Exactly

I think any guy in the US should start with himself and define what it means to be a man, for himself. Forget what society tells him and understand that being alone is better than being anything other than himself. Once I realized and lived these things I was able to "chase" women from a position of strength. Knowing I didn't "need" a woman I was able to go after what I "wanted" in a relationship.
To me this is evolving. I didn't marry a foreign woman to go back in time. I simply looked at my options and went after what I wanted.

This was very similar to my development.

I wish more men would be educated to pursue this path!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 15, 2011, 01:10:42 AM
I may catch heat for this but I agree that the fem movement was not all bad, but it became an extremist movement with an emphasis on not only taking power from men in politics and family but also marginalizing and debasing "manhood" in general.

                        I agree Zulu. But then when a society deteriorates as such there have been courageous men who step forward and think outside the box to find a solution...just like the few, the brave, the Wifehunters!

      Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 15, 2011, 10:19:34 AM
                        I agree Zulu. But then when a society deteriorates as such there have been courageous men who step forward and think outside the box to find a solution...just like the few, the brave, the Wifehunters!

      Researcher


LOL, yeah I feel ya!

I'm working on quite a few of my friends, its not an easy task.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 15, 2011, 11:21:52 AM
Quote
I agree Zulu. But then when a society deteriorates as such there have been courageous men who step forward and think outside the box to find a solution...just like the few, the brave, the Wifehunters!

Not to be argumentative, but a couple weeks ago, a member, Mari06, took strong opposition to me stating that the "social value of being a man" was less in the USA than in South America.  This thread has hrashed out that the same issue in more comprehensively.  I seemed to remember you being on the other side of the issue at that time, however.  Or, was that just your natural tendency to oppose anything that I state ... perhaps you like to see yourself as the "anti-zon" :)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 15, 2011, 06:25:18 PM
Not to be argumentative, but a couple weeks ago, a member, Mari06, took strong opposition to me stating that the "social value of being a man" was less in the USA than in South America.  This thread has hrashed out that the same issue in more comprehensively.  I seemed to remember you being on the other side of the issue at that time, however.  Or, was that just your natural tendency to oppose anything that I state ... perhaps you like to see yourself as the "anti-zon" :)


         It seems you remember wrong zon unless you can show otherwise....

         I don't consider myself anything near resembling the Zon "brand" you have created or the opposite
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Dan Las Vegas on December 15, 2011, 06:51:02 PM
"Less than 5% of people in the USA even have a passport"
Actually the percentage is between 27 and 30 percent according to CNN and the state department.
Just my dos centavos worth
 
Dan LV
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on December 15, 2011, 09:17:57 PM
no, it's not the only reason, but it's a contributing factor and the point i'm making is not that unions single-handedly killed manufacturing, but that the women's movement isn't responsible for the decline of men in the workforce and woman's ascent. Men played a big part in their own decline.


FWIW though Right to work states are doing quite well in manufacturing (whereas Michigan is a wasteland), but then you have things like the NLRB forcing boeing's hand on the machinist's union thing so that they don't lose a billion dollar investment in SC. How will that affect other major employers' decisions? It's a big mess.

    The Unions? Nah, I don't buy it. I have seen this close up. Who the hell in the US can live on 50 cents an hour? That is what US labor is competing with.

      Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 16, 2011, 11:48:27 AM
"Less than 5% of people in the USA even have a passport"
Actually the percentage is between 27 and 30 percent according to CNN and the state department.
Just my dos centavos worth
 
Dan LV


Dan,

The 5% is pretty accurate if you consider the real stats.

The state dept and homeland security now require you to have a passport now to travel to Mexico and Canada and countries in the Caribbean. 

If you take away these required passports then the number of Americans that actually use their passports to travel beyond those regions is around 5% or less.

Americans, as a group, do not travel internationally.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: thekfc on December 16, 2011, 12:41:54 PM
If you enter the USA by land or sea from Mexico, Canada, the Caribean or the Bahamas - all you need is a Passport Card (ID card). But if you travel by air then you need a Passport Book (what we call a regular passport).
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 16, 2011, 01:48:59 PM
If you enter the USA by land or sea from Mexico, Canada, the Caribean or the Bahamas - all you need is a Passport Card (ID card). But if you travel by air then you need a Passport Book (what we call a regular passport).

A passport card is the exact same as a passport with the same application procedures and requirements, etc.

However, you cannot use a passport card for international travel outside of Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.

Both, however are official travel documents and are are "passports".

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: thekfc on December 16, 2011, 07:12:32 PM
I didn't say that they had different requirements or application procedure or the likes.

All I said was if you enter the USA by land or sea from North America (Canada, Mexico Caribbean) - all you need is a PC but if you enter by air then you need a PB.  PC = use if by land & sea; PB= use if by Air.

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Tanuki on December 16, 2011, 07:38:30 PM
    The Unions? Nah, I don't buy it. I have seen this close up. Who the hell in the US can live on 50 cents an hour? That is what US labor is competing with.

      Researcher

Hard to compete when you can do this to your workforce.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdH1ezM7To (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdH1ezM7To)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 27, 2011, 03:20:29 PM
Sinead O'Connor on her most recent marriage - I mean divorce.  16 days. Notice the DOMINANT "I" - and the references to the man, as if he was wearing a skirt in the corner.


"I have therefore ended the marriage," she said. "I think he is too nice to do so. And too nice to trap."
She confirmed that the marriage lasted 16 days and they only lived together for seven of those days until Christmas Eve.
"Meanwhile I intend to get on with being fully me," she continued. "With never an apology for ANY part if being FULLY ME. No matter what. I am a 21st century full woman and proud of living it. Please pray for my lovely husband to be ok and do not worry about me as I have had plenty of practice in these matters."
The singer divorced third husband Steve Cooney earlier this year.
After their split, O'Connor took to her blog to vent her sexual frustrations and appeal for a new lover.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/12/27/sinead-oconnor-ends-fourth-marriage-after-16-days/?test=faces#ixzz1hmAbgrMe (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/12/27/sinead-oconnor-ends-fourth-marriage-after-16-days/?test=faces#ixzz1hmAbgrMe)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Brazilophile on December 27, 2011, 06:45:12 PM

After their split, O'Connor took to her blog to vent her sexual frustrations and appeal for a new lover.


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

I read the article but missed THAT part!  There is the fatal flaw in the masculinization of women in America: NO SUITABLE SEX PARTNERS!!

What type of man will answer her appeal? Especially given her track record with men, which is now very public?
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: beginthebeguin on December 27, 2011, 10:01:38 PM
Jesu Christo!!!! Talk about emasculation. She is even describing her most recent 'ex' in terms of  emasculation. As if the guy was Casper Milquetoast personified.
By all accounts she is acting like a man trapped in a woman's body with this latest publicity stunt. And quit frankly that is all it is, a publicity stunt. She hasn't sold that many records lately I take it.   
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 27, 2011, 10:12:46 PM
It is not a publicity stunt. It wouldn't matter if she was selling more records. She has always been like that. She shaved her head in her hay day because she didn't want her sucess to have anything to do with her looking attractive. She has a massive chip on her shoulder that never seems to get any smaller. Pretty much standard feminist ideology resulting in standard unhappy woman creating a certain degree of mystery for anyone that gets close to her. I'm sure you've seen it 100 times already.

Recently a study was released that proved that since feminsm, women have become significantly more unhappy.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 27, 2011, 10:20:55 PM
Recently a study was released that proved that since feminsm, women have become significantly more unhappy.

Yeppers!

A woman's happiness is directly proportional to the number of orgasms she achieves during copulation with a man (regardless of the position).

They are slowly finding this out, we already know this to be true!! ;)

Oh yeah......Toys and Tongues (a woman's) don't count!

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: opusone on December 27, 2011, 11:08:54 PM
As long as we tolerate unfairness and allow Fems to dictate the social agenda then we will continue to slide down the slippery slope. 

Its easy to make the necessary changes, but many men have "bought in" to the idea of "husband and wife" = "marriage partners" and now promote the core Feminist agenda of partnering.

We must educate and deprogram these guys, then actively start to remove the legal and social structures the Fems have put in place.

I can be done.
Nice!


Good luck training grown men who have been emasculated, new tricks. You're going to need lots of it.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on December 28, 2011, 12:27:51 AM

Good luck training grown men who have been emasculated, new tricks. You're going to need lots of it.

Opusone,

Maybe not the all the grown men, but surely the young men and adolescents.

That's what sites like this are for.

Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: V_Man on December 28, 2011, 01:06:08 AM
I agree, show them alternatives.

Also speak out a little. I get a kick out of pointing out the bigotry and hypocracy of feminsm.
Have you read about the women only hotel floors and lounges?
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on December 28, 2011, 06:41:25 AM
 "She has a massive chip on her shoulder that never seems to get any smaller. Pretty much standard feminist ideology resulting in standard unhappy woman creating a certain degree of mystery for anyone that gets close to her."


She needed it good and hard - probably never has.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: thekfc on December 28, 2011, 08:04:34 AM
Sinead O'Connor is musically talented & do make good music. But she is also a "troubled" woman.
 
She have walked off the during performances.
The year she won Best Alternative Music Performance - she boycotted the Grammy's. 
She have refused to perform on stage if the national anthem of a "country which impose censorship on artist" is played before her scheduled performance. "Ole Blue Eyes" threatened to kicked her ass.
She received 4 Grammy nominations but removed her name from consideration.
She said that she have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
She have attempted suicide.
She says that she is a lesbian - actually according to her 3/4 heterosexual & 1/4 gay. She says that goes out with guys because she haven't necessarily been terribly comfortable about being a big lesbian mule.
She tore up a picture of Pope John Paul II during a SNL perrformance (she later apologize).
She is very outspoken about sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
Earlier this year she wrote an article in a newspaper (in response to the sexual abuse scandal in Cloyne Diocese) and described the vatican as a nest of devils.
She said that if she was not a singer then she would have wished to be a catholic priest.
In 1999 she was ordained as a priest (Latin Tridentine church in Ireland) and afterwards said that she want to be known as Mother Bernadette Mary.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: piglett on December 28, 2011, 03:46:57 PM
Sinead O'Connor is musically talented & do make good music. But she is also a "troubled" woman.
 
She have walked off the during performances.
The year she won Best Alternative Music Performance - she boycotted the Grammy's. 
She have refused to perform on stage if the national anthem of a "country which impose censorship on artist" is played before her scheduled performance. "Ole Blue Eyes" threatened to kicked her ass.
She received 4 Grammy nominations but removed her name from consideration.
She said that she have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
She have attempted suicide.
She says that she is a lesbian - actually according to her 3/4 heterosexual & 1/4 gay. She says that goes out with guys because she haven't necessarily been terribly comfortable about being a big lesbian mule.
She tore up a picture of Pope John Paul II during a SNL perrformance (she later apologize).
She is very outspoken about sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
Earlier this year she wrote an article in a newspaper (in response to the sexual abuse scandal in Cloyne Diocese) and described the vatican as a nest of devils.
She said that if she was not a singer then she would have wished to be a catholic priest.
In 1999 she was ordained as a priest (Latin Tridentine church in Ireland) and afterwards said that she want to be known as Mother Bernadette Mary.

 
She needed it good and hard - probably never has.
i think your on to something Zon.she has never had a real man who threw her over his shoulder took her into the bedroom & gave it to her good & propper?
(I'm talking about going into extra innings if needed to get the job done) 8)
 i guess if she keeps hooking up with the "girly man" type she will never get what she really needs.
i find it interesting that people actually give a flying rat's @ss what some singer or actor thinks. hey just because you can sing a song that was been written for you or repeat the lines written for you DOESN'T MAKE YOU SMART.....i hope i was clear on that.
i couldn't tell you who got voted off the stupid island or who the last winner of american idol was, why because i don't really care. most of those people are fake.
who cares what a fake shallow person says about anything,
i sure don't.
 
OK I'll now climb down from my soapbox
pig ;)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Ray on December 28, 2011, 09:45:00 PM

i find it interesting that people actually give a flying rat's @ss what some singer or actor thinks.
 

I agree!
 
Quote
i couldn't tell you who got voted off the stupid island or who the last winner of american idol was, why because i don't really care. most of those people are fake.

Hey Piggy,
 
Actually, the people on American Idol and Survivor are real people, not phony actors.
 
Just for trivia’s sake, did you know that American Idol has been the number-one rated TV show for the past 8 years? We like to watch the audition episodes because they can be quite entertaining.
 
I saw a published survey recently where they rated shows by the political party of the viewers. Republicans tend to prefer shows like Amazing Race, American Idol, Survivor, and Dancing With the Stars, while Democrats like Mad Men, Dexter, 90210, 30 Rock, and Goodwife. Don’t know what the significance is but it was an interesting read.
 
I also like American Pickers, Gold Rush, IRT Deadliest Roads, and of course just about everything on the The Military Channel. I can’t stand sit-coms, especially the ones with the phony laugh tracks.
 
Ray
 
 
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Bob_S on December 28, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
She needed it good and hard - probably never has.
I'll bet she has, and not in a good way.  Probably by someone who goes by the title of "father".  But who's father may be in question.  Just sayin', the patterns of behavior that are the consequences of such an episode are there.   :-\

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: piglett on December 29, 2011, 09:33:59 PM

 
I also like American Pickers, Gold Rush, IRT Deadliest Roads, and of course just about everything on the The Military Channel. I can’t stand sit-coms, especially the ones with the phony laugh tracks.
 
Ray
i love american pickers , those guys rock, irt deadliest roads is good most of the time, the discovery & military channel are IMHO the best. I havn't seen a sitcom in years & i don't think i am miss much  ;D :o ;D
 
pig
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: maritime04 on December 30, 2011, 03:56:20 AM
Quote

Recently, there was a separate thread where some objected to me stating that the "value of being a man" was higher in Latin American countries.  I am not, necessarily, talking from a deep psychological perspective.   There are hundreds of examples that show this to be true. But some people here think such a claim is gibberish.  Look at this little TV commercial (one of hundreds with the same characterization), and tell me if things have not changed a ton in the last 30 years, tell me if things are not different in Latin America - HAHAHA

Please pass the crack pipe Zon. What you are talking about is economics 101, males earn more money because they can physically work harder and are the main labors, so of course they have more value, Is a dog worth more then a milk cow??????? Is an egg worth more then a hen???? 
Quote

But you have to ask yourself just how did these clueless Colombians ever get so on top of the situation when it comes to their women. And if I had to pick one reason...it would be that they don't marry other guys ex-wives especially if they have his kids and are over thirty.
1.       Colombian males have somehow discovered how best to deal with women? Seriously you believe that CRAP!!!! Colombian males are defiantly not winning the gender wars, Colombian women will yell at, cheat on or cut the balls off of their male partners faster than you can blink an eye. WOW self-delusion is AWSOME! You really believe that crap! Let me ask a question, who hear would like to have a Colombian grown male as a son, or son-inlaw? Made my point. Thank you………………………………………….lets move on
2.       I have in my travels encountered those who revile in the [snip] that is Colombia………………………………….
Quote

Here in Latin America I love to watch the men out on Friday night and the women at home.

Hey buddy their NOT at home, they screwing their mosos!!!!!!!!!
Quote

I love that the women will not talk to one another about what they saw their man doing because if they do the other woman says “Ha! Well I saw your man with so and so!”

Wrong again, its more like ill tell your man I saw you with so and so!!!!! Chismoso!!!!!!
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: brian57 on January 01, 2012, 04:11:10 PM
I have read many of Zon's posts, and he does interact with the locals,  I recall one post where Zon did charity work in MDE.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 01, 2012, 08:48:29 PM
Quote
Please pass the crack pipe Zon. What you are talking about is economics 101, males earn more money because they can physically work harder and are the main labors, so of course they have more value, Is a dog worth more then a milk cow? Is an egg worth more then a hen? 

Quote
But you have to ask yourself just how did these clueless Colombians ever get so on top of the situation when it comes to their women. And if I had to pick one reason...it would be that they don't marry other guys ex-wives especially if they have his kids and are over thirty.


1.       Colombian males have somehow discovered how best to deal with women? Seriously you believe that CRAP!!!! Colombian males are defiantly not winning the gender wars, Colombian women will yell at, cheat on or cut the balls off of their male partners faster than you can blink an eye. WOW self-delusion is AWSOME! You really believe that crap! Let me ask a question, who hear would like to have a Colombian grown male as a son, or son-inlaw? Made my point. Thank you………………………………………….lets move on2.       I have in my travels encountered those who revile in the [snip] that is Colombia………………………………….

QuoteHere in Latin America I love to watch the men out on Friday night and the women at home.

Hey buddy their NOT at home, they screwing their mosos!!!!!!!!!

QuoteI love that the women will not talk to one another about what they saw their man doing because if they do the other woman says “Ha! Well I saw your man with so and so!”

Wrong again, its more like ill tell your man I saw you with so and so!!!!! Chismoso!!!!!!


1, Personally, I think it is more complicated than eco 101.  I have, and many other have also, chimed in on this thread with observations, opinions, even a little evidence to discuss this "value of being a man" issue.  If you think the value of being a man is the same everywhere in the world, through the ages that is fine by me.

2, although it is possible, I do not remember being the author of all those fragments you have posted?

3, My new year's resolution - no more pissing matches on the internet:) 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: maritime04 on January 01, 2012, 11:59:53 PM
What’s a matter don’t like the taste of your own medicine? You’ve never been shy to state your opinions of “wife-hunters” compared to what you call “life-hunters” whatever the hell that means In regard to “Value of being a man” yes you have stated your OPINION but with ZERO evidence, it’s a B.S. statement taken from the simple observation, with little background information and actual thought. Sorry, unless you can make an actual argument and support it with logical conclusion it’s simply B.S.
As towards Economics, the simpler it gets the more fundamental is becomes in any economy, my statement is factual, especially in agrarian society like Colombia, which is become more urban every day, but like the rest of the continent has its roots in traditional catholic type of thinking.  Its simple Zon males do most of the hard labor in any agriculture environment; females tend to the home, rear children, and cook. As I said before Colombia has seen a great deal of urbanization due to internal-conflict, drug trade, and economics. Many Colombians no longer work the coffee fields, and live in the country BUT they still think and behave as their fathers and grandfathers before them. So male children as still happily welcomed into the home and spoiled like little kings, often a Colombian family will be much more willing and gentler with bad behavior from a male child then a female.
Honestly I do not think that’s what you meant, when you say “being a man has more value”, your still at the OMG these girls are ACTUALLY hanging out with us, stage. As I have left the building, and moved on. It’s not a pissing match because there is no match….., you give [snip] to guys who are looking for a wife, because you feel they are “losers” who are damaged in some way (at least 80%) what I do is simply take the same attitude with what you say are “life-hunters”, and show you a little reality. What surprises me is how one can be so pessimistic and negative in one instance and so foolish and naive in the other.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 02, 2012, 06:37:48 AM
Recently, on separate thread, I stated my true opinion on wife hunters vs. life hunters.   I highlighted it in red.   It is not an argument to be won - it is my perspective on the subjects.  Surprisingly, it could be BS to you, yet accurate to another.  Is there a personal, ethical, moral, or political issue being debated here?  I don't see it. 

(BTW, in that thread I did notice that you excused yourself, however, without any response to the fact that you came on awfully strong on the single issue that you simple can not know - age.  At 31ish, you are 5 years removed from graduate school, or your first professional job.  You probably have not been married, or divorced.  You probably have not raised a child.  NOTHING WRONG with any of that, of course. It just is what it is)

You are much more qualified to offer a counter opinion on society's "gender wars" ... and comparisons in gender throughout the places you have lived.   YOU DON'T SEE ANY BASIS IN TRUTH IN THIS THREAD FROM VARIOUS POSTERS?   No skin off my back.

Quote
Honestly I do not think that’s what you meant, when you say “being a man has more value”, your still at the OMG these girls are ACTUALLY hanging out with us, stage. As I have left the building, and moved on. It’s not a pissing match because there is no match…"

Ahhhh ...  at least I understand where you are coming from now.  But, you are mistaken.  If I wanted to simply beat my chest and talk about women as commodities, I would not have spent so much time here.   1) Regarding my  80% wifehunters are x y and z  statements - all of which are unflattering.   I understand those are seen as rude here.  2) Regarding my many comments suggesting that finding a good, sincere CW is not as easy as it first appears, those were similarly unpopular.  3) Regarding my comments that being married should not be one's life goal, but a subset of a full, complete life, DITTO.

Maybe I should have been more reserved in my observations in the past, more gentle?  NEVERTHELESS, all those comments were based on my observations and are my opinions - they are true to me.  (and just to underscore the obvious, they are true for others as well - not ALL, but some)
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on January 02, 2012, 09:05:40 AM
Recently, on separate thread, I stated my true opinion on wife hunters vs. life hunters.   I highlighted it in red.   It is not an argument to be won.  Surprisingly, it could be BS to you, yet accurate to another.  Is there a personal, ethical, moral, or political issue being debated here? 

(BTW, in that thread I did notice that you excused yourself, however, without any response to the fact that you came on awfully strong on the single issue that you simple can not know - age.  At 31ish, you are 5 years removed from graduate school, or your first professional job.  You probably have not been married, or divorced.  You probably have not raised a child.  NOTHING WRONG with any of that, of course. It just is what it is)


     Funny stuff zonny. You mention Maritime's "qualifications" to comment on certain things and yet you seem to feel "qualified" to advise guys on finding a good woman to marry in Colombia. Hilarious. But I do see you covering yourself by stating "it is what it is" just in case someone catches your hypocrisy. hahaha!


       Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 02, 2012, 09:35:19 AM
Quote
Funny stuff zonny. You mention Maritime's "qualifications" to comment on certain things and yet you seem to feel "qualified" to advise guys on finding a good woman to marry in Colombia. Hilarious. But I do see you covering yourself by stating "it is what it is" just in case someone catches your hypocrisy. hahaha!


It is a New Year.  Let's start off fresh.  It is obvious that you object to me in many ways, and you have stated your points endlessly.  I ACCEPT THAT - you don't need to like me, nor I you.  But, can we please move on?  It has gotten past old.

I am not an expert on "How To Get Married To A Colombiana"  (and we ought add "Stay Happily Married For Greater Than 7 Years." )  Few men here are, in fact.  But, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king - LOL
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on January 02, 2012, 09:48:28 AM

It is a New Year.  Let's start off fresh.  It is obvious that you object to me in many ways, and you have stated your points endlessly.  I ACCEPT THAT - you don't need to like me, nor I you.  But, can we please move on?  It has gotten past old.

I am not an expert on "How To Get Married To A Colombia"  (and we ought add "Stay Happily Married For Greater Than 7 Years." )  Few men here are, in fact.  But, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king - LOL

   I am only pointing out things I see zon. No need to get upset. I will continue to do so.



  You are not an expert that is for sure and who are you to decide who is king?


     Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Fuzzyone on January 02, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
   I am only pointing out things I see zon. No need to get upset. I will continue to do so.



  You are not an expert that is for sure and who are you to decide who is king?


     Researcher


  I would say in his case it is like the blind leading the blind off a cliff.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: JimD on January 02, 2012, 04:52:23 PM


  But, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king - LOL


Funny post and yeah you pegged it. Good call.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on January 02, 2012, 05:05:56 PM

It is a New Year.  Let's start off fresh.  It is obvious that you object to me in many ways, and you have stated your points endlessly.  I ACCEPT THAT - you don't need to like me, nor I you.  But, can we please move on?  It has gotten past old.

I am not an expert on "How To Get Married To A Colombiana"  (and we ought add "Stay Happily Married For Greater Than 7 Years." )  Few men here are, in fact.  But, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king - LOL

Zon,
 
I don't agree with you 100% of the time although I love your posts.
 
But I think this is YOUR most signifcant post ever.
 
We have a few members who love to get personal and belittle, insult and attack anyone that posts a legitimate opinion that differs from theirs.
 
I hope the new year will usher in a healthier environment for discussion on P-L.  We will, of course, still have heated disagreements and completely divergent opinions but we should also conduct ourselves as men.
 
I will do my part to make that happen.
 
I challenge everyone on P-L to do the same.
 
Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: maritime04 on January 02, 2012, 06:16:51 PM
I am unmarried for now, approaching what I hope to be my last marriage, no children. I did graduate from a service academy, and my current job is in my profession. I do not understand what that has to do with the “tea in china”, unless you are trying to imply that because of my age I do not know what I am talking about.
Listen Zon I am going to continue to show you the same regard you insist on showing these “wife-hunters” so get use to it, you have 24 days left…
Quote

Is there a personal, ethical, moral, or political issue being debated here?
All of the above, man
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 02, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
Quote
unless you are trying to imply that because of my age I do not know what I am talking about.


No, dude.  If you want to go on a witch hunt go ahead.   But, I am not going to fuel your assumptions.  I have been more respectful of you than you have of me.  You seem to fancy yourself on some noble quest?  Hmmm.  I guess you are the FT, or Researcher of the day.

Lay off the testosterone long enough to realize a simple truth.  Most guys here are on Plan B in life.  That is how it is.  Life looks different from 45 than it does at 30 - than it does at 60.  Age matters.  It is something that can not be read, or gained on the bench press.

Sincerely, I hope that this is your marriage lasts, and that you realize all your hope and dreams. I hold no ill will to you, or anyone else.

If, however, you find yourself in a place like this later in life ... after a failed marriage (no good guys, or bad guys, just an imperfect life).  When your future children are grown. After a business, or two have succeeded, or failed. I guarantee you only one thing - Life will look different  to you then than now.   

And, the ONLY reason we are talking about this is not because of me, but because of you ... when you strongly commented on how "stupid" it sounded for me to write that being in South America made me feel younger (or something to that extent). You simply do not possess the required experience to comment.  That's how it is.

When I was interested in travelling to Russia / Colombia to explore the possibilities for myself ... I was most interested in trying to view things from a locals perspective.   Most of the harsh views I have shared on this board come from direct, personal conversations I have had with women, translators, and agency owners.   The view I received - after considerable effort - was less than complimentary, generally speaking.  Bottom line = It is harder for an American man to find a good, sincere Colombian woman than it seems at first glace - or 5 day trip.  Perhaps your views differ?
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: maritime04 on January 02, 2012, 11:55:45 PM
Zon
Man up, just like your little buddy says get some balls, you have referred to my age numerous times, when you thought I was not looking, now you want to back out. OK
No Nobel quest here, you continue to speak gibberish I will continue to point out its gibberish, what do you not get?
There is no plan A , no plan B, just guys and living there life…
Allot of things matter, what your point? Tomorrow will look different; again what’s your point?
Quote

And, the ONLY reason we are talking about this is not because of me, but because of you ... when you strongly commented on how "stupid" it sounded for me to write that being in South America made me feel younger (or something to that extent). You simply do not possess the required experience to comment.  That's how it is.
WRONG AGAIN, do you enjoy being this wrong? Here’s what you actually said..
Quote

Reasons why I like LIVING in Colombia:   Other BIG REASONS: 

1. I think most any gringo gets 10 years subtracted from his age.   If you take care of yourself and remain current, the difference could be greater.  That does not suck!
You also said this…
Quote

So, is it possible to feel 10 years younger, honestly?  Is is true that a 45 -60 year old man will be held in a much higher social regard in  Colombia? HELL YES!  Simply, look at Colombian men to answer this question ... I have a Colombian friend that is exactly my age.  He was married in the USA many years ago, to a woman his own age. He returned to Colombia 15 years ago, and today, he is married to a woman of 25 years = most would consider her a knockout.   Over the last few years, before they were married, they might get into a big argument.   Within days, my friend would have another girl just as pretty and seemingly just as willling to be dedicated to him.   Women, not whores, young an beautiful fight for his attention - and always have.   He is not exceptionally handsome, or successful. This is the world in which he lives, no fooling himself.  Who wants Kool-aide?
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You simply do not possess the required experience to comment.  That's how it is.
Are you kidding? I have more experience to comment on this then YOU; I speak the language, understand the culture, and have lived there long before you even decided to jump on a plane. I do not have to an older geezer to comment on why older guys “feel” younger because they come into an environment where younger women simply pay attention to them. That is the most STUPID thing I have heard.
Listen man, I hate to tell this to you but you’re not going to get any younger, no matter where the plane lands, or how much money you have. You can either except this reality of life, or continue on your marry way I DO NOT CARE.
Quote

Bottom line = It is harder for an American man to find a good, sincere Colombian woman than it seems at first glance - or 5 day trip.  Perhaps your views differ?
Yes it’s hard, I do not think ANYONE here gives the impression it’s a cake walk, does not mean we should not try, does not mean there is no hope. I think it’s worth the effort, and socially it’s a good endeavor. Better than say traveling 1000 miles to pad your ego, and fulfill a desire for instance gratification. You say these guys are helpless emotional defunct losers, what’s more dysfunctional then a guy getting on a plane so he can FEEL more social value because everyone around him is poor. Who’s more messed up Zon, the guy who wants to rear a family, and find companionship? Or the guy who feels relationships with women are disposable easily replaced commodities? The man who gets social value from the women he surrounds himself with, or the guy who becomes a father to a child who never had one. The one thing I honestly agree 100% on with you is OUR VIEWS DO DIFFER…
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Calipro on January 03, 2012, 02:59:13 AM

No, dude.  If you want to go on a witch hunt go ahead.   But, I am not going to fuel your assumptions.  I have been more respectful of you than you have of me.  You seem to fancy yourself on some noble quest?  Hmmm.  I guess you are the FT, or Researcher of the day.

Lay off the testosterone long enough to realize a simple truth.  Most guys here are on Plan B in life.  That is how it is.  Life looks different from 45 than it does at 30 - than it does at 60.  Age matters.  It is something that can not be read, or gained on the bench press.

Sincerely, I hope that this is your marriage lasts, and that you realize all your hope and dreams. I hold no ill will to you, or anyone else.

If, however, you find yourself in a place like this later in life ... after a failed marriage (no good guys, or bad guys, just an imperfect life).  When your future children are grown. After a business, or two have succeeded, or failed. I guarantee you only one thing - Life will look different  to you then than now.   

And, the ONLY reason we are talking about this is not because of me, but because of you ... when you strongly commented on how "stupid" it sounded for me to write that being in South America made me feel younger (or something to that extent). You simply do not possess the required experience to comment.  That's how it is.

When I was interested in travelling to Russia / Colombia to explore the possibilities for myself ... I was most interested in trying to view things from a locals perspective.   Most of the harsh views I have shared on this board come from direct, personal conversations I have had with women, translators, and agency owners.   The view I received - after considerable effort - was less than complimentary, generally speaking.  Bottom line = It is harder for an American man to find a good, sincere Colombian woman than it seems at first glace - or 5 day trip.  Perhaps your views differ?
I used to take a lot of pictures on my trips to Colombia (and post them here) thinking that it would help guys see the difference but it didn't work out that way a lot of times.  People believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see.
When you challege someone's strongly held believes with your words or photos the result is well....you can see what you are dealing with here.....and this is rather nice compared to what I encountered years ago.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on January 03, 2012, 05:15:28 AM
No, dude.  If you want to go on a witch hunt go ahead.   But, I am not going to fuel your assumptions.  I have been more respectful of you than you have of me.  You seem to fancy yourself on some noble quest?  Hmmm.  I guess you are the FT, or Researcher of the day.
 


Nah, I'm still here zonny. Sounds like others see through you as well.

 

Lay off the testosterone long enough to realize a simple truth.  Most guys here are on Plan B in life.  That is how it is.  Life looks different from 45 than it does at 30 - than it does at 60.  Age matters.  It is something that can not be read, or gained on the bench press.
 


   .....or gained on an internet forum. Life experience is life experience and everyone has to live their own. I can tell you from experience that most guys aren't going to listen to you. They will do what they will do. You expats obviously don't have any experience with advising anyone.

 


If, however, you find yourself in a place like this later in life ... after a failed marriage (no good guys, or bad guys, just an imperfect life).  When your future children are grown. After a business, or two have succeeded, or failed. I guarantee you only one thing - Life will look different  to you then than now.   
 


    Not exactly groundbreaking info.

 

And, the ONLY reason we are talking about this is not because of me, but because of you ... when you strongly commented on how "stupid" it sounded for me to write that being in South America made me feel younger (or something to that extent). You simply do not possess the required experience to comment.  That's how it is.
 


    It sounds just plain sad to me. Having to move to another country to feel younger seems quite deperate and only something a loser would do.

 

When I was interested in travelling to Russia / Colombia to explore the possibilities for myself ... I was most interested in trying to view things from a locals perspective.   Most of the harsh views I have shared on this board come from direct, personal conversations I have had with women, translators, and agency owners.   The view I received - after considerable effort - was less than complimentary, generally speaking.  Bottom line = It is harder for an American man to find a good, sincere Colombian woman than it seems at first glace - or 5 day trip.  Perhaps your views differ?

       Who on this forum is promoting such a thing. You are creating a straw man argument to make it appear you have a strong case but I don't think anyone here has this opinion.

       Zon, you and other expats seem sincere in your efforts to advise others. Let me give you guys some insight because I have done the same....for a while now. Many guys will not listen. Some actually know what they are doing while others are clueless. Either way they will not listen so expect some "push back". The best you can do is to express your opinion and let it go. Maybe somewhere down the road they will realize what you are saying, the clueless ones anyway. The ones that aren't clueless simply realize the risk they are taking and just accept it. If they want to take the risk it is certainly their right to do so.

     Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 03, 2012, 05:38:45 AM
Quote
Man up, just like your little buddy says get some balls, you have referred to my age numerous times, when you thought I was not looking, now you want to back out. OK 

Oh, I was surprised you did not look, or comment.  There is a tone of "digital bad a$$" in your posts nowadays, is that your intention?


Quote
Are you kidding? I have more experience to comment on this then YOU; I speak the language, understand the culture, and have lived there long before you even decided to jump on a plane. I do not have to an older geezer to comment on why older guys “feel” younger because they come into an environment where younger women simply pay attention to them. That is the most STUPID thing I have heard.

I know a guy in Medellin that is 70ish and he has lived there for over 20 years.  He has been married, but these days he has 3 or 4 twenty year old "novias".  He seems convinced that all these women care for him.   He seems to think, after all these years, that Colombia is a lost paradise.  Is this "real and true" - I think not.

BUT, there are many more examples of men, who are in fact living Plan B in Colombia; men between the ages of 40 and 65 that have remarried and are starting a family - or who are planning to - again usually with a woman that is 15 - 25 years their junior. These guys do not strike me as sex crazed pervs.  They are not trying to game the system.  They are not trying to "vote with their feet".  They are simply trying to get the best selection and life choices for themselves ... and that took them to Colombia. They are playing the hand that God dealt them.  Or, are they bending the rules to exploit an economy and gender?

I see a difference between these two examples. 

Regardless of your considerable experience and heritage, your cup is less than half full of the perspective only AGE can bring.  (don't be pissed, be happy)  When I was 31, I was an AA to congressman and thought I had the whole world by the short hairs.  This entire site would have been utter and total nonsense to me at the time. 

ON EVERY OTHER ISSUE, I do not question your qualifications - in fact, I would like to read more of what you would have to say. 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 03, 2012, 05:47:47 AM
Quote
I can tell you from experience that most guys aren't going to listen to you. They will do what they will do. You expats obviously don't have any experience with advising anyone.

Quote
Sounds like others see through you as well.

I am not arguing to persuade ANYBODY.  You have always suggested that there exists background / surreptitious motivations in my posts, and frankly, I don't get it?!?

Most guys!  Like "the majority".   I have always thought it a good sign to be in the minority of anything.

Quote
You expats obviously don't have any experience with advising anyone.

WHAT?!?!   Honestly, I think you get so excited to rebut my every post that you do not think twice about what you say.

Quote
It sounds just plain sad to me. Having to move to another country to feel younger seems quite deperate and only something a loser would do.

I was talking to a guy in Bogota that knows you a couple weeks ago - I was only half listening - but, I do not get the impression that you were unexcited to stay in your league when you were hunting for a wife.  Hmmm

Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Researcher on January 03, 2012, 06:26:15 AM
I am not arguing to persuade ANYBODY.  You have always suggested that there exists background / surreptitious motivations in my posts, and frankly, I don't get it?!?
 


    I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. You could say I "shoot from the hip". hahaha!

 

WHAT?!?!   Honestly, I think you get so excited to rebut my every post that you do not think twice about what you say.
 


      I stand by my statement.

 

I was talking to a guy in Bogota that knows you a couple weeks ago - I was only half listening - but, I do not get the impression that you were unexcited to stay in your league when you were hunting for a wife.  Hmmm

      Well, you or who you were talking to is telling lies. I have met people in Bogota but I don't consider anyone in Bogota that actually knows me. Honestly, only my family and close friends can honestly say they "know" me.

      hahaha! well, zonny first you claim to be able to judge guys as "losers" just by observing them so it is no wonder you think you can judge someone's "league" from an imaginary second hand source. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that what you are saying is true. So, IF you actually met someone who claims to have met me I doubt they know much. You see zonny I don't feel the need to plaster my image all over the internet.

          Researcher
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: z_k_g on January 03, 2012, 08:39:23 AM
Regardless of your considerable experience and heritage, your cup is less than half full of the perspective only AGE can bring.  (don't be pissed, be happy)  When I was 31, I was an AA to congressman and thought I had the whole world by the short hairs.  This entire site would have been utter and total nonsense to me at the time. 

ON EVERY OTHER ISSUE, I do not question your qualifications - in fact, I would like to read more of what you would have to say. 

A 31 year old man really can't give me one bit of advice about life or relationships unless he has been married for at least 15 years (been divorced and had to deal with an ex and his kids), raised 2 or more children worked on a 9 to 5 job for 20 years and both parents are passed away and he has had to lead his family through that transition and, last but not least, has had to deal with significant life issues and made good (and bad) decisions to work his way out of them.
 
My grandfather was an avid hunter. 
 
We used to go out and hunt coons and squirrel every year.  At the beginning of the season we would have our pouches full.  By end of hunting season you would rarely get 1.  I finally asked my grandpa why?
 
He said, "son at the beginning of the season you will bag all of the youg-uns, they are bold and brash and know everything, easy pickings.  But at the end of the season, you will only be bagging the old and wise ones, if you're lucky enough!"
 
I NEVER bagged an old coon.
 
With that being said, I enjoy listening, debating, posting and engaging with the P-L faithful about all the issues, its fun.
 
I respect everyone's opinion because we all have our own points of view, right or wrong.
 
Zulu
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: JimD on January 03, 2012, 04:01:10 PM


...there are many more examples of men, who are in fact living Plan B in Colombia; men between the ages of 40 and 65 that have remarried and are starting a family - or who are planning to - again usually with a woman that is 15 - 25 years their junior. These guys do not strike me as sex crazed pervs.  They are not trying to game the system.  They are not trying to "vote with their feet".  They are simply trying to get the best selection and life choices for themselves ... and that took them to Colombia.  
Another good post. Very well put. I'd say that's pretty much it in a nut shell.
 
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: mambocowboy on January 03, 2012, 04:41:32 PM

A 31 year old man really can't give me one bit of advice about life or relationships unless he has been married for at least 15 years (been divorced and had to deal with an ex and his kids), raised 2 or more children worked on a 9 to 5 job for 20 years and both parents are passed away and he has had to lead his family through that transition and, last but not least, has had to deal with significant life issues and made good (and bad) decisions to work his way out of them.
 
My grandfather was an avid hunter. 
 
We used to go out and hunt coons and squirrel every year.  At the beginning of the season we would have our pouches full.  By end of hunting season you would rarely get 1.  I finally asked my grandpa why?
 
He said, "son at the beginning of the season you will bag all of the youg-uns, they are bold and brash and know everything, easy pickings.  But at the end of the season, you will only be bagging the old and wise ones, if you're lucky enough!"
 
I NEVER bagged an old coon.
 
With that being said, I enjoy listening, debating, posting and engaging with the P-L faithful about all the issues, its fun.
 
I respect everyone's opinion because we all have our own points of view, right or wrong.
 
Zulu
Well said.
Title: Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
Post by: Zon on January 03, 2012, 06:50:02 PM
Quote
I noticed you did not argue my point at all... What do you bring to the table? 1.I have lived in a latin country for more then 6 years2.visted more then a few latin countries3. dated and womenized my fare share of latin women4. applied for and entered my women with a K-1 visa This fourm currently exists to assist guys in finding and relocating their fiancee or wife to USA, It deals with agencys, travel issues, culture shock, ect.... HOW EXACTLY AM I NOT QUALIFIED? i think i can bring a feast to the table, where i guy like you is lucky to serve the water...

Hey feast, we have two thread overlapping at the same time.  To your point, I wrote earlier in the day "Regardless of your considerable experience and heritage, your cup is less than half full of the perspective only AGE can bring.  (don't be pissed, be happy)  When I was 31, I was an AA to congressman and thought I had the whole world by the short hairs.  This entire site would have been utter and total nonsense to me at the time.

ON EVERY OTHER ISSUE, I do not question your qualifications - in fact, I would like to read more of what you would have to say."