Greetings Gentleman, your advice please

[BostonGeorge]

Greetings Gentleman,

I have found this forum to be an excellent source of information so I humbly request your advice on meeting a good woman from Asia and having a successful relationship/family. I know that many others have posted similar requests through out the months and years but I hope you will take moment to share your thoughts and opinions with me. (by the way before posting this I read through all the archives as much as I could realistically).

About me, 29 year old white guy living in Boston (shockingly not Irish or Italian though). I have a college degree and work in the technology sector. I generally fit the mold of a late 20’s guy working his way up the corporate ladder the way most of us must to get by today. I have dated a number of AW and have come to feel that I am not as compatible with them as with the fine Asian women. I generally feel that AW are career obsessed, selfish, spoiled and lacking in many of the qualities like loyalty, respect and kindness that I look for in a partner. I have always been interested in East and South East Asian cultures and have had many friends from the orient over the years through my involvement with the martial arts and other venues. Back in 2003 I spent time in Thailand as a tourist and really enjoyed the couture and people. That (among other things) has got me thinking that there must be an alternative to chasing ungrateful AW. I will be traveling to China in September to do some charity work and thought it a good opportunity to try and meet someone since I would be in the region.

My question is how did you guys meet and marry your ladies?

It seems from reading the forum that the process could go somthing like this

1. Create a profile on various websites such as Thai love links, Filipinaheart, Cherry Blossoms, Myforeignbride (any one know anything about this last one? )
2.  Spend time corresponding with various ladies of your chosen country(s)
3. After a number of months, take a trip out there to see the one or few that you feel could be a good match with.
4.  If things go well, spend as much time with her as possible and take a lot of photographs as proof of the relationship.
5. Return home and file the appropriate paper work,
6. Wait 9 months or longer and be reunited with your sweetheart
7.  Again, assuming things go well, get married and submit the paperwork for citizenship.

Do I have this about right?

I have several questions about the process.


1. Do you general find Asian women to be more loyal and respectful then AW?  I know there are good and bad in any county; I’m speaking in general terms on the culture.
2. How long did the process take for you guys? Is it possible to be denied entry in to the US due to tighter immigration enforcement?

3.  My intentions are nothing but honorable but I have been burned before as have many of you, Prenup seems like a good idea. Did any of you get one? Could you share any details about that?

4.  Was there any particular technology that you found especially useful? Which websites used it?

Thank you for reading and any advice or insights you would care to share.
I will be sure to post a trip report when I go.

-George

[jm21-2]

You could get married over there instead of here. Unless she's fairly wealthy, a fiance visa is the only way to get her over here before marrying her, and those are only for people who truly intend to get married. I believe you have 90 days to get married.

We don't allow certain types of people to get visas, like prostitutes, criminals, etc. obviously. I assume you wouldn't be marrying such a girl though, and if they caught it you'd be damn lucky.

Talk with a lawyer about a pre-nup. There's a lot more to a valid pre-nup than signing an agreement. She's going to need a lawyer, a translator, full disclosure of your assets, etc., at a bare minimum.

Recently, several guys have had very successful experiences with using webcams before they go over there, to get a more accurate idea of what each other are like.

[Dave H]

Hi George,

Welcome to P-L!

I met my wife through an introduction from friends. We began writing and speaking on the phone. I felt that she was the one and met her in person in the Philippines a few months later. We got along great and I started the K-1 Fiancee Visa when I returned home. 6 months after filing the paperwork she arrived and we married within a few weeks (90 day limit to marry). Chatting online with Skype, Yahoo messenger or another free service will save you a ton of money.

Good luck!

Dave

[Frank64]

George,

Welcome aboard.  I just joined last week.  Two comments:

- Check out chnlove.com.  There are a lot of quality women on that site and they apparently have to pay a signficant amount (I've heard $1600) to get on via an agency.  Therefore, they're very serious.  However, many do not speak English which is one disadvantage with China in general.

I think that you'll find different methods that worked for different people.  The biggest thing that I learned from the forum is the warning signs and to avoid tours.

Frank

[Marshall K]

The agency my wife used uses chnlove.com for its listings.  They do give the owner a fat sum, but all the ladies I met were well educated professionals and pretty damn nice.
There are tons of agencies on these websites, and lots of lovely women.  Since there is little policing of these sites, you should watch for scams.  Don't send money!
Trust your gut and use common sense.
That aside, I have a wife I love dearly and have met half a dozen guys who married Chinese ladies through this agency and were very happy with their marriages.  I met a few women online when I was looking and the young Russian hottie smelled like a rat.  The Thai lady didn't speak English or have an interpretor.  When I finally met my wife online I was also writing another nice Chinese lady and it became apparent that I liked her a lot better.  We emailed nine months and when I went to meet her we got married.  This is the norm.  I would say that 90% of the men I met who had met their wives this way married them on their first trip to meet.  I wasn't planning on marriage when I first went, although I did give it an outside chance.  I didn't have all the right paperwork ready (subconscious safety valve?), so settled on a family marriage and a civil ceremony for the government when I returned.
Anyway, have fun and good luck.
Marshall

[BostonGeorge]

Thank you all very much for your input, I’m curious what the pro’s and con’s are when thinking about getting married overseas first or doing in your home country? (in my case the United States) any insights?

[jm21-2]

If you go the fiance route, then you get to see a bit of how she adjusts to life here in the states.

If you marry over there, the wedding is probably going to be much cheaper, her family gets to come to it, it would probably be a wedding under the customs of her culture which could be a lot more interesting for you.

[mattman]

As a newbie here myself, I have little to offer other than wishing you the best of luck. What I have learned so far is to do your homework (which you are doing) and be smart. I personally have a business associate who's wife is from China. She is trying to play matchmaker and "import" family or friends. She is very sincere and her husband's business makes alot of money from my business, so I don't question her intentions.

I personally chose to pursue Asian because of values and ideals. My associate has a wonderful marriage and family with a Chinese woman, so I may be biased. I have dated latina women in the past, but have never dated an Asian woman. I don't have an Asian "fetish" but the more I learn about them the more I like them.

As a backup, I also signed up with an agency to get a feel for things. It costs money, but my experience so far has been good. I have met some very nice ladies there. Evidently if you are American, have a job, and own real estate you are a rock star in China.

Best of luck,
Matt

[Marshall K]

My attorney told me that it doesn't make any difference with immigration if you marry her here or there.  I enjoyed our Chinese wedding and I think it helps with her family a lot. 
Since it takes so damn long for immigration I would sure hate to wait for the government to dictate how long I should wait to be married.

I also think that it means a lot to the woman that you are willing to make this step, since you are expecting her to leave her family and world for you.  It gives her good face with her family and friends and you will be much more accepted by them.

[Bear]

1. Do you general find Asian women to be more loyal and respectful then AW?  I know there are good and bad in any county; I'm speaking in general terms on the culture.

Yes.  Simply because marriage means something there.  They want it to work and for most its not just a stepping stone to America.  AMs are considered to be the best husbands in the world, so "you" are the prize here.  Who, what and where you are means a lot.  I am constantly humbled by the treatment wife gives me.  I try so hard to keep up but I honestly feel so loved and well treated by her I just can't compare my treatment of her to hers of me.

2. How long did the process take for you guys? Is it possible to be denied entry in to the US due to tighter immigration enforcement?

8 Months of "dating", getting to know her by phone and on-line chatting.  Married there, it was very important for closure to her so that her family and friends could see and know she was "successful and happy".  50 weeks to get her here (in the middle 9/11 occurred).

3.  My intentions are nothing but honorable but I have been burned before as have many of you, Prenup seems like a good idea. Did any of you get one? Could you share any details about that?

Don't like them because IMHO it starts the marriage out saying you don't trust her.  You have quite a few laws on your side and you'll find that American Judges seem to support Americans in disputes.  Only if they can prove significant abuse will you come out the loser.  Family is a lot of processes interwined that can be just a touch softer than ramming your head in to a brick wall, why make them tougher?  Both of you are looking for a best friend, support, someone who'll care for you when you are not able too.  Be the person you want her to be and praise the things you like, explain your needs - if you had that from her would you not respond to the person you loved?  Needless to say, it means you choose well - thats the entrance to the race.  No one wants their marriage to fail but to some it was never meant to be a marriage but a tool to reach an agenda.  Don't be a stupid, communicate, be confidant and stay in control of all the aspects you can with out looking like a bossy jerk and you'll be right where you want to be.  My experiences seem to say a woman wants a guy to be strong (to protect her not beat her) and seriously concerned/interested in her needs.

4.  Was there any particular technology that you found especially useful? Which websites used it?

At first chatting on the Dalnet (IRC) got us to where we hoped it would take us - very scary at times because of the ease and ability to lie unnoticed, so you really have to be smart and communicate.  Good girls want a relationship to work but users are looking for a road to their goals.  Its up to you to find out which your chatting with. 

After a few months of chatting I up the expense by calling.  Buy phone cards to help lower the expense.  Once married I made sure she had access to the internet (I bought her a laptop and put a phone line in her home and purchased Zoom card internet access) so I could see her when ever I wanted while the paperwork was processed.  It helped me be a bit more confidant that things were okay.  We chatted about 6 hours a day once married.

I've said it before, this is not an easy road but the chances of success far outweigh the process.  Its hard to be separated from someone you care for.  Its difficult to confirm if a user has you under her thumb.  Small differences in culture can make running into a brick wall look like getting comfortable in kingsize bed so learn as much about them as you're expecting to learn about you and that had better be everything.  Sometimes its not the scary, hard, freaky events we are trained by our paranoid and controlling society to expect, its just normal learning to be who we are and trust - them and our efforts.  Trust isn't total acceptance without question, its understanding where the pitfalls are so you can get through hardships with the least amount of effort and a sense of knowing and confidence.  If you didn't communicate you don't know and there will be no confidence. 

I do not second guess any part of my relationship, now that were married its too late for that.  My job now is to make it work.  But I chose well and the effort to make it work is pure joy.

The Bear Family

[Jeff S]

Hi George and welcome. We're always happy to have another here who has seen the light.

My question is how did you guys meet and marry your ladies?

I was introduced to my wife through friends. We had along distance relationship for 2+ years before we married. This was pre-internet so time spent apart meant telephone calls and letters. That was back when it was expensive to call, too. She came here twice, once for four weeks and another time for nine, and I there three times, for about four weeks each. Neither of us were financially challenged then. I realize that for those seeking wives in poorer countries, her visiting the US is not an option, but it can be for first-world countries or for established women with means.

1. Do you general find Asian women to be more loyal and respectful then AW?  I know there are good and bad in any county; I’m speaking in general terms on the culture.

Taoist and other Eastern philosophies beliefs permeate much of Asia. Concepts like patience, yin and yang are part of all Asian cultures. Asian women don't strive to be equal to men in the American concept of women being interchangeable with men (women CEOs, firemen, combat soldiers, etc.) but instead strive to be equal and opposite of men, to compliment the relationship not to compete in it.

Buddhist philosophy also has a strong influence in Asian cultures. Buddhism isn't about the next life but rather about how to improve this one, and contains a mandate for continuous improvement, each day being better than the last. One of my wife's favorite sayings is "step-by-step." They realize hat things don't happen overnight and you can't have it perfect right now, but are willing to invest time and effort to make it happen for the long haul. One of the best selling genre of books in the US is "get rich quick." They're laughed at in Japan.

2. How long did the process take for you guys? Is it possible to be denied entry in to the US due to tighter immigration enforcement?

Japanese can travel here without a pre-approved tourist visa, and adjust their status once they arrive so others here can tell you far more than I.

3.  My intentions are nothing but honorable but I have been burned before as have many of you, Prenup seems like a good idea. Did any of you get one? Could you share any details about that?

No. I live in a community property state, so it's unusual for the need for one. Property owned before the marriage is separate, any increase in value or anything you acquire during the marriage is community property. Document anything you own, get current formal appraisals, etc, before marrying and start new investment accounts, etc. after marriage to not intermingle funds. Consult an attorney in your state for the rules then follow his advice. I have a friend who put is new wife's name on his multi million dollar, paid off home after being advised against it by his lawyer. They split after about 9 months, and now he's screaming foul. By the way I believe in community property. If she truly is a team member she should share equally in the increase of net worth while she supported you in your career.

4.  Was there any particular technology that you found especially useful? Which websites used it?

Not applicable in my case. But I find that Skype is a fantastic tool for relatives overseas. My father lives as an expat in Mexico, and I talk every few days, and it's all free computer-to-computer, including video. I use it for business and you can tie groups together with members all over the world, so if you want your parents in Florida to get on the line with your girlfriend in Davao while you're in Seattle, it's just the touch of a mouse button, is completely free, and the quality is far, far better than any telephone. It's like the four of you are sitting in the same room. 

Anyway welcome to the adventure.

- Jeff

[Ray]

I’m curious what the pro’s and con’s are when thinking about getting married overseas first or doing in your home country? (in my case the United States) any insights?

To marry there or marry here?

There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods but whether you marry over there or do the fiancée visa and marry her here really depends on your individual situation and your mutual desires.

But the key in either case is that you both must be fully committed and ready for marriage. A big mistake would be to think of the fiancée visa as a “trial period” or “test drive” where you don’t really have to make a full commitment until after she has been here for a couple of months or so. If either of you has any serious doubts, needs a little more time to get to know each other better, or otherwise isn’t quite ready for marriage yet, then don’t marry and don’t file any immigration petitions!

My general advice is to fully research the options and discuss them with your lady so that you can decide together which is best for you. I would put the issue of waiting time aside and consider the other issues. The key for me was what my bride wanted because I believe that the wedding is a very special day especially for a bride and she should be able to do it her way this one time. If she really wants a traditional wedding at home with her family and friends, then do what it takes to make it happen. If she really doesn’t care either way then do what you think is best.

One advantage of marrying over there is that you don’t have to worry about compliance with the recent IMBRA law if that is a big concern. Another is that with the CR-1 spouse visa, she will get her “Green Card” effective when she steps off of the plane. This will immediately allow her to work, travel overseas, apply for a driver’s license, and probably cut at least 9-12 months off of the wait to apply for naturalization after arrival.

The K-1 fiancée visa is usually a little faster to process but there is much more red tape and paperwork involved after she comes over.

Ray

[BostonGeorge]

Thank you all for your advice and input, I am glad to see many of the people whom I hoped would post on my thread chose to do so. It is good to know that there is a community of like-minded people out there that have done this before.

“Taoist and other Eastern philosophies beliefs permeate much of Asia. Concepts like patience, yin and yang are part of all Asian cultures. Asian women don't strive to be equal to men in the American concept of women being interchangeable with men (women CEOs, firemen, combat soldiers, etc.) but instead strive to be equal and opposite of men, to compliment the relationship not to compete in it. “  -Jeff S

Thanks to Jeff S for this insight, it drives at the core of why I have decided to pursue this. My next step will be to join some sites and begin the process. Thanks again.

[joemc58]

Hey Boston,
        Where in Bean town are you. I left Brighton 30 years ago, and travel all over Asia.
         I want to welcome you and good luck. 

[Dave H]

I have several questions about the process.


1. Do you general find Asian women to be more loyal and respectful then AW?  I know there are good and bad in any county; I’m speaking in general terms on the culture.

Definitely my Filipina wife, her sisters and friends are MUCH more loyal and respectful than most of the AW and Latinas I have known! They deserve the same in return...unlike many AW who demand it without reciprocation! The Philippines was a Spanish colony for 333 years, but maintained much of the Asian values, manners, culture, and temperament.

One of my best friends has been married to his fantastic Vietnamese wife for more than 35 years.

2. How long did the process take for you guys? Is it possible to be denied entry in to the US due to tighter immigration enforcement?

6 months on a K-1 Fiancee Visa just before 9-11.

3.  My intentions are nothing but honorable but I have been burned before as have many of you, Prenup seems like a good idea. Did any of you get one? Could you share any details about that?

No I can't take it with me... My wife is very fair, caring,  and kind. She deserves more than I could ever give her.

4.  Was there any particular technology that you found especially useful? Which websites used it?

Skype

Dave H.

[BostonGeorge]

Thanks Dave H, good points.

JoeMC, I have lived all over the north Boston area from Somerville to Stoneham. I just ran into my Ex (who broke my heart)  in front of South Station today after a year of no contact, can you believe that S#!&. It motivates me to begin the process all the more.

[Bob_S]

4.  Was there any particular technology that you found especially useful?

Boeing 747-400. 

Which websites used it?

The JET program
GEOS
Dave's ESL Cafe Job Board
Quit your job and teach English is the Far East!