H1B Quota For this year reached in one day.

[william3rd]

The H1B temporary nonimmigrant worker cap was reached in one day with over 150,000 applications received. Fedex reported that it had 53000 applications awaiting Monday morning delivery as of Friday. A lottery will be held to determine which of the applications will be accepted for this year.

The H1B is a way for professionals to work in the United States for three years and it can be extended for another three years. This method is frequently a pathway for an alien to get a green card through the labor certification process.

In previous years, I used to get frequent inquiries for this method to be used as an avenue to allow a woman over for a long-term stay. It really isnt worth the time and expense.

So- that is all for H1B until next April.

[Christopher]

This is stupid.  We need educated, capable people like this.

[utopiacowboy]

No, we don't. My company probably has 800 H1B people here from India. They use them to drive down wages even though there are US citizens who could do the work. They are even talking about layoffs so they can hire more of these bastards who are basically slaves (they can't work for any other company other than the one which sponsored them). F*ck the H1B.

[Christopher]

Really?

The company I work for has gone through droughts of not being to find ENOUGH people.

[utopiacowboy]

I bet dollars to donuts you're either in California or the East Coast. The problem there is the high cost of real estate and few Americans want to relocate there due to the high cost of living. Even if I made twice what I make here my standard of living would still go down. Maybe it is necessary to bring in slave labor.

[Ray]

I couldn’t agree with Cowboy more. The H-1B program is a big joke.

At one company I worked for, they laid off every engineer and engineering manager except for the 2 H-1B engineers. Come to find out they couldn’t afford to let them go with the low wages they were paying those guys. Hell, they would have worked for ¼ the going rate just to get that Green Card.

When a company here in California wants to hire a foreigner on a H-1B, they are required to certify to the state labor board that there are no available U.S. citizens or legal residents qualified for the job. This is the biggest joke of all!

The state labor board will advertise the position in the local newspaper with instructions to send resumes directly to Sacramento. The name of the company is not provided. If there are American applicants who meet the detailed requirements listed, the labor board will have the company schedule an interview.

I have attended quite a few of those interviews over the years and they are ALL completely rigged. There is no way that any qualified American applicant will ever pass the interview or meet the qualifications for the position because the company has NO intention of hiring an American. They only play a game with the government while they fully intend to hire the friend, relative, or other countryman back home.

I have had the interviewer accuse me of lying on my resume. I have had to take rigged exams that lasted over an hour and were tougher than any final exam in engineering school, but of course the foreign engineer would later ace the test. And I have had the company suddenly change the job requirements in the middle of the interview when they discovered that I was highly qualified for the position as advertised.

I wrote detailed complaint letters to the labor board following some of my more horrific interview experiences. Did the labor board reject their certification? I don’t know because I never got any feedback from them but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was paid off.

Now I see where the new proposed comprehensive immigration AMMNESTY bill may double the H-1B quotas. Horse crap! These politicians are idiots!

Screw H-1B and screw the immigration give-away bill (Strive Act)!

[Christopher]

I bet dollars to donuts you're either in California or the East Coast. The problem there is the high cost of real estate and few Americans want to relocate there due to the high cost of living. Even if I made twice what I make here my standard of living would still go down. Maybe it is necessary to bring in slave labor.

You'd lose.

I'm very near you.  Same state, amigo.  But I agree with you about California and the East Coast.  I'll take a pass on both for the Lone Star State.

[utopiacowboy]

In that case I'd wager that you're in Houston. I get plenty of offers from Houston but nothing would make me move there. I really prefer West and South Texas. In San Antonio it's not hard to get qualified people. A lot of people where I work would quit in a heartbeat if there a few other big shops here. Let 'em have their sweatshop Indians.

[william3rd]

Hey Ray- The H1Bs are supposed to be the FIRST to go.

However, I am surpised that the H1Bs were even working in Engineering. A lot of them seem to end up working as slurpy machine technologists at their cousins 7-11.

This is an area rife with fraud.

Some of your post seems to go to the Labor Certification process, which, as you say, is also a joke.

[G Bala]

IF THE H-1B VISA QUOTA WAS SHOT IN ONE DAY [AS IT JUST WAS], THEN IT JUST SHOWS HOW RIDICULOUSLY OUT OF STEP EVEN "LEGAL" IMMIGRATION POLICY IS WITH CURRENT MARKET NEEDS AND REALITY. It is interesting and amusing to see how the immigration restrictionists, who claim to only oppose "illegal" immigration - not "legal" immigration - are opposed to reform of even legal immigration, such as H-1B Visa policy. 

The STRIVE Act of 2007 (Regularized Immigration and a Vibrant Economy)(H.R. 1645) , part of Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR), will stiffen employer sanctions and toughen anti-fraud protections yet also allow increased numbers of "legal" H-1B Visas to meet the demands of current market forces.

FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM TO SUPPORT "LEGAL" IMMIGRATION as opposed to "illegal", Sen. Barack Obama introduced the Citizenship Promotion Act of 2007 (S. 795) into Congress just recently.

This bill, among other things, would set up programs to encourage legal residents to pursue and secure U.S. citizenship.

The bill would also authorize USCIS to seek and secure Congressional appropriations to make up the difference between fees charged to applicants and the full resources needed to fund operations and infrastructure.

By authorizing such appropriations, the bill would likely allievate the need for substantial fee increases recently proposed by USCIS and prevent mounting costs from becoming a barrier to citizenship.

Go Barack...Obama for President 2008!

FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT VIOLENTLY OPPOSED TO THE ILLEGALS and seek a more compassionate and intelligent way to address immigration and border security concerns than trying to deport 20 million illegals and building ever-higher and ever-thicker walls to "keep the bums out", try looking at Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR) through the STRIVE Act of 2007.

STRIVE proposes a different way, tools such as a limited work visa for some undocumented workers and new border technology - to relieve pressure on the borders, focus Border Patrol on the real "bad guys", and bring immigration policy into line with the 21st century global economy. It will increase H-1B Visa quotas to 115,00 to 180,000 annually, and exempt certain applicants with an advanced technical degree from the U.S. from any quota, to bring LEGAL immigration into line with 21st century economic realities. All without that dreaded "A" code-word that the immigration restrictionists love to use with their label-makers on any good-faith proposal by any reasonable person seeking a solution to our immigration mess...

Here's a primer for you:
AILA Resource Guide to CIR

http://www.aila.org/content/fileviewer.aspx?docid=21713&linkid=157219

In a democracy, the voters always get the last word on government policy...

By the 2008 Presidential elections, 12 million new immigrant U.S. Citizen voters are expected.

As the Cryptkeeper would say, see you "kiddies" at the polls!

PS: All CIR and STRIVE voters receive a free T-shirt:
Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism since 1492

[william3rd]

Lets talk about the "illegals" or ILLEGALS. What contact do we have with them here in Socal? My car was stolen by, we have had three bicycles stolen by, we have emergency rooms closing because of over use by, Deputy Marsh was shot to death by- some of the undocumented.

Can't we get them out? Probably not. The last amnesty was supposed to take care of the problem but . . . . the enforcement part was never enforced.

Have to find a middle ground, folks.

How about enforcing deport orders for starters?

[Christopher]

Several issues at work here.

1.  Utopia won his second bet.  I'm in H-Town and I love it here.

2.  If legal immigrants are working for nothing and driving down wages, there's only one real solution (which you all are going to attack me for):  unions.  Hear me out....

We can get rid of the legal immigrants. That solves nothing.  They'll hire illegals.  We build a fence.  Won't stop them.  We know that.  We'll never even find 11 million some odd who are already here. 

Who benefits from cheap labor?  The only way to solve it is to take it away from them.

[utopiacowboy]

I would vote for a union in a heartbeat even though I hate unions. The enemy of my enemy may not be my friend but he sure causes my enemy a lot of trouble.

[Ray]

. It is interesting and amusing to see how the immigration restrictionists, who claim to only oppose "illegal" immigration - not "legal" immigration - are opposed to reform of even legal immigration, such as H-1B Visa policy.

Well, it looks like ‘somebody’ has their “label maker” out again… LOL!

I guess lawyers have no fear of losing their job to a foreign worker. I have seen the H-1B program close up from the inside and I’ve seen how it really works. You clean up the H-1B program by eliminating the majority of the corruption and fraud involved and I’ll support it. Until then, expanding it will only make it worse for American workers.

The compassionate and intelligent way to address immigration and border security concerns is not to allow ILLEGAL aliens to remain here while others who want to follow our laws are kept out. I could support a “Guess Worker” program to fill legitimate needs, but the workers must be invited guests, not intruders who invited themselves here and spit upon our laws. Giving up on any idea of deporting those here illegally will NOT solve anything, but only show the world that we are afraid to enforce our immigration laws so they are welcome to sneak in any way they can get here.

If some of the open border advocates who oppose fences had actually gone to the San Diego border and looked at what was there just 10 years ago, they wouldn’t keep whining about higher and thicker walls. In the areas where there actually was a “fence”, it consisted of 3-ft wooden posts with a rusted cable running through it. There were hundreds of places where the cable had been cut and load vehicles could drive right through unopposed. Yes, I actually thought that broken, rusted cable lying in the dirt should be replaced with something higher and thicker… LOL!

In a democracy, the voters always get the last word on government policy...

BALONEY! Tell that to the voters in California who saw just about every law passed overwhelmingly by the voters to control any facet of illegal immigration summarily thrown out by the liberal courts. In our system, the COURTS get the last word!

Barack Obama introduced the Citizenship Promotion Act of 2007 (S. 795) into Congress just recently.

This bill, among other things, would set up programs to encourage legal residents to pursue and secure U.S. citizenship.

Why of course he wants more immigrant voters since they traditionally vote for his party…LOL!

In California the Democrats don’t wait for them to be naturalized…they tell them that they are allowed to vote now if they are “intending” to become citizens later. That’s how they won a key house seat in Orange County a few years ago, with thousands of illegal votes. A Democrat candidate for congress in San Diego last year even invited ILLEGAL aliens to join her campaign and help get out the vote! But that goes to the real crux of the problem. Too many politicians will do ANYTHING to get elected and hold on to their power, including undermining our border security.

PS: All who oppose CIR and STRIVE receive this free T-shirt:



 

[Ray]

We build a fence.  Won't stop them.  We know that.

We'll never even find 11 million some odd who are already here. 

CHristopher,

Who says a fence won't stop them? Here in the parts of San Diego where they built the triple-layer border fence, illegal immigration has been reduced from a deluge to a trickle. The fence DOES work! We know that.

And who says we will never be able to deport the illegals who are here? We have given up before we have even tried. Sure you aren't going to find them all, but I'll bet we can make a serious dent in those here illegally by just letting local law enforcement turn over apprehended criminals to the Border Patrol, actually deporting those ordered to leave, cracking down on illegal employers, taking away the freebies for illegals, and by doing away with these stupid "sanctuary cities" protecting them.

Deporting even a fourth of the 25 (?) million already here will send a loud and clear message to those other hundred million (?) thinking of sneaking in.

[Christopher]

I would vote for a union in a heartbeat even though I hate unions. The enemy of my enemy may not be my friend but he sure causes my enemy a lot of trouble.

1000% agreement.  SOMEONE has to reign in the economic craziness that has sent all our manufacturing jobs to Malaysia, all our tech jobs to India, etc.

[Christopher]

CHristopher,

Who says a fence won't stop them? Here in the parts of San Diego where they built the triple-layer border fence, illegal immigration has been reduced from a deluge to a trickle. The fence DOES work! We know that.

Ever hear of this new invention called tunnels?  Or wirecutters?

Yes, a fence works in a built up area.

How many illegal aliens have gotten through fences in rural Arizona while that wonderful fence in San Diego has been 'doing its job'.

Just simple logic says this is wrong.  I know you want to believe it, but it isn't reality.

And who says we will never be able to deport the illegals who are here? We have given up before we have even tried. Sure you aren't going to find them all, but I'll bet we can make a serious dent in those here illegally by just letting local law enforcement turn over apprehended criminals to the Border Patrol, actually deporting those ordered to leave, cracking down on illegal employers, taking away the freebies for illegals, and by doing away with these stupid "sanctuary cities" protecting them.

That's nice, Ray.  There are an estimated 11 million some odd illegal aliens in this country.  How do you propose to round them all up?  Once you have them all, do you propose to put them in busses?  11 million of them?  Those busses would stretch from San Diego to about Boston.

Are you grasping the sheer size of the problem?  How many law enforcement people would we need to recruit, train, and house just to FIND them, much less deport them?

I do agree with cracking down on the employers, and the perfect way to do that is with unions.

Deporting even a fourth of the 25 (?) million already here will send a loud and clear message to those other hundred million (?) thinking of sneaking in.

Ray, think rationally about what you are saying.  Deporting them HOW?  Finding them HOW?  I've had this debate with others before and I know you WANT there to be this magic bullet solution where we just build a fence and they all miraculously don't figure out ways around, above, through, or below it.  And that we can somehow magically round up 11 million (where'd you get 25?) people, even if we knew where they all were.

Now, I'm not arguing it isn't a problem, that they're illegal, or that they've broken the law.  But a law is ineffective if it is not enforceable, which is what we're seeing.

[Ray]

Ever hear of this new invention called tunnels? Or wirecutters?

Yes, a fence works in a built up area.

How many illegal aliens have gotten through fences in rural Arizona while that wonderful fence in San Diego has been 'doing its job'.

Just simple logic says this is wrong. I know you want to believe it, but it isn't reality.

Chistopher,

Yes it IS reality. I live a couple of miles from the border and I know the fence works. Maybe you should come down and take a look for yourself. You don’t even need simple logic, just your eyes will do.

Have there been a few tunnels under the fence? Sure, and some illegals and drugs have gotten through tunnels. Some illegals have even hidden in cars disguised as rear seats. Some have come dressed as piñatas. I said illegal crossing has been reduced to a trickle compared to what it was before the fence.

 

Ray, think rationally about what you are saying. Deporting them HOW? Finding them HOW? I've had this debate with others before and I know you WANT there to be this magic bullet solution where we just build a fence and they all miraculously don't figure out ways around, above, through, or below it. And that we can somehow magically round up 11 million (where'd you get 25?) people, even if we knew where they all were.

Now, I'm not arguing it isn't a problem, that they're illegal, or that they've broken the law. But a law is ineffective if it is not enforceable, which is what we're seeing.

I am thinking rationally thank you. I already gave several examples of how to start deporting illegals.

For example, here in San Diego, the local police used to call the border patrol if they stopped a load vehicle full of illegals and the BP would pick them up and take them back to the border. Then the politicians changed policy and FORBAD the police from even contacting the Border Patrol.

When you find illegals during a traffic stop, you can either let them go or call ICE. Letting them go is a big part of the problem. When an illegal is arrested for any crime, you can either turn them over to ICE for deportation or you can let them go. Are you starting to get the picture yet?

Those cities that have declared themselves “sanctuaries” for illegals are another big part of the problem. Local policies that give illegals free medical care, free education for their children, welfare checks and food stamps, resident tuition rates in colleges, etc., etc., etc., only encourage more to come. Take away the freebies and the "sanctuaries" and MANY will leave on their own.

And why would you want to gather up 11 million all in one place and then try to find enough busses to fit them all in at one time? Why don’t YOU think rationally? 

A border fence is NOT a magic bullet. It is a valuable tool to help stem the tide. Letting the illegals just waltz in and then trying to chase them all over the countryside is just plain stupid. And a “virtual fence” is virtually useless because it doesn’t stop anyone.

A border fence like we have here in San Diego allows the Border Patrol to keep most of the illegals from ever crossing in the first place so you don’t have to worry about rounding up millions more. The fence is a triple layer with roads in between and is patrolled around the clock.

The fence DOES work because I have seen it first hand and I have seen the dramatic results with my own eyes. And the illegals are crossing to the East more since the fence went up in San Diego precisely because it does work and they don’t have it in the Arizona desert yet. I would suggest that anyone really interested in this issue come to the border and see for yourself how it works instead of listening to the nay-sayer pundits.

Solving the illegal immigration problem is really not as difficult as it may seem. Cracking down on those who are here will discourage others from coming. Giving the illegals amnesty will only encourage more to come. Now what is so difficult about that?

[Christopher]

Chistopher,

Yes it IS reality. I live a couple of miles from the border and I know the fence works. Maybe you should come down and take a look for yourself. You don’t even need simple logic, just your eyes will do.

Have there been a few tunnels under the fence? Sure, and some illegals and drugs have gotten through tunnels. Some illegals have even hidden in cars disguised as rear seats. Some have come dressed as piñatas. I said illegal crossing has been reduced to a trickle compared to what it was before the fence.

Ray, I don't doubt it works if its in a built up area and MONITORED 24/7.

You want to extend that fence across mountainous terrain for 3000 miles.  Right now, you are touting the success of a fence that maybe goes 50 miles.

Are we going to man in all and monitor it all 24/7?  How?  With whom?  Who gets to pay for the staffing, support, construction, and maintenance?

I am thinking rationally thank you. I already gave several examples of how to start deporting illegals.

For example, here in San Diego, the local police used to call the border patrol if they stopped a load vehicle full of illegals and the BP would pick them up and take them back to the border. Then the politicians changed policy and FORBAD the police from even contacting the Border Patrol.

When you find illegals during a traffic stop, you can either let them go or call ICE. Letting them go is a big part of the problem. When an illegal is arrested for any crime, you can either turn them over to ICE for deportation or you can let them go. Are you starting to get the picture yet?

Those cities that have declared themselves “sanctuaries” for illegals are another big part of the problem. Local policies that give illegals free medical care, free education for their children, welfare checks and food stamps, resident tuition rates in colleges, etc., etc., etc., only encourage more to come. Take away the freebies and the "sanctuaries" and MANY will leave on their own.

That I tend to agree with, but it's the same as drugs.  The problem is not going to go away until to stop it at the source.  And the source is not the 'freebies', of which Texas has few, if any.  Most illegals come here to work, not to loaf, at least over here. 

And why would you want to gather up 11 million all in one place and then try to find enough busses to fit them all in at one time? Why don’t YOU think rationally? 

Faced with irrationality, one presents absurdity to illustrate absurdity.... 

A border fence is NOT a magic bullet. It is a valuable tool to help stem the tide. Letting the illegals just waltz in and then trying to chase them all over the countryside is just plain stupid. And a “virtual fence” is virtually useless because it doesn’t stop anyone.

A border fence like we have here in San Diego allows the Border Patrol to keep most of the illegals from ever crossing in the first place so you don’t have to worry about rounding up millions more. The fence is a triple layer with roads in between and is patrolled around the clock.

Note emphasis.

Solving the illegal immigration problem is really not as difficult as it may seem. Cracking down on those who are here will discourage others from coming. Giving the illegals amnesty will only encourage more to come. Now what is so difficult about that?

Cracking down can help lessen the tide, but it isn't going to stop it.  People want to come here because they can make about 5 to 15 times their salary that they can where they are now, period.  We can't deport all of them, or even a large minority of them.  A fence, unless it is manned and monitored like your example, is about as effective as using a sieve as a dam.

[william3rd]

The original amnesty provided for prison for the employers. Lets get back to basics and start enforcing the law. If employers know that the shekels that they save today may be paying for legal fees tomorrow, then I think that the "food supply" will be reduced.

[Ray]

You want to extend that fence across mountainous terrain for 3000 miles. Right now, you are touting the success of a fence that maybe goes 50 miles.

Are we going to man in all and monitor it all 24/7? How? With whom? Who gets to pay for the staffing, support, construction, and maintenance?

Christopher,

Now who is being absurd here? Of course the proposed border fence would be patrolled, have towers, and be equipped with the latest in electronic monitoring. Did you really think that we were going to just put up a fence and then leave it unattended? Do you even know anything about it?

You obviously have not heard or read any of the details on the proposed border fence or the law that mandated it so I find it impossible to debate the merits of such with you. PLEASE study up on this before trying to put it down. The fence is not a big joke as the open border pundits would have you believe.

And I don’t understand your pessimism on the idea of deporting any illegal aliens. You aren’t even willing to try it, just like the wimpy politicians who are scared to death to enforce our laws. You can’t label something a failure without trying it first. Just because you don’t understand how it may possibly work doesn’t mean it’s hopeless. Has this country become a bunch of defeatists ready to surrender to every problem that comes along? Sometimes I wonder.

Of course illegals want to come here to work. And some just want to come here to kill and rape our citizens. So you will just throw your hands up in the air in defeat and hope the problem will go away magically, while who knows what is crossing our borders? Get real man! If you start locking up those employers and take away the freebies then 90% of intending will stay home and many of those already here will leave because there will be nothing for them. Then we can concentrate on keeping the terrorists and rapists out!

And no the illegal alien problem is not the same as the drug problem. That’s just a cop out to justify doing absolutely nothing.

I really don’t understand all of this negativism when it comes to protecting our borders. Stop listening to the whackos who want open borders and free immigration for all! If you use that wonderful mind of yours instead of listening to others you may be surprised at how manageable this whole immigration thing can be. Just try thinking instead of automatically condemning.

Ray

[flagringo]

Solving the Illegal Immigration Invasion from Mexico/Central America;

[1] enforce existing immigration laws
[2] build the fence
[3] make employers join the SSN# verification service for all existing and new hires
[4] allow the IRS to compare SSN #'s on the employers form  941 with existing SSN info on file at the Social Security Administration (currently they can't do it legally).  Arrest & prosecute employers that have illegal SSN#'s on their quarterly 941's after a grace period. 
[5] Hire Manpower/CareerBuilder.com type company to set up a guest worker program, requiring prospective employees to sign up for the service in major cities 500 miles or farther away from the US Border.  (this encourages 11 million illegals to leave voluntarily, no buses needed).  Farmers/hotels/low wage employers can advertise for help in the USA via the website, when it is not filled in a reasonable length of time, a slot is opened up for a "guest worker"
[6] Legal Guest workers will have a tamper proof biometric ID card (similar to the DOD ID card I think). 
[7] Sanction employers $10,000 for each guest worker that does not return across the border after their 2 or 3 year term expires (employer pays for guest worker travel to and from their homecountry.  They would just hire a specialized transit security company to do it).  The $10,000 fine pays for ICE to pick the illegals up when they find them.
[8]  Repeal any laws granting citizenship for "anchor babies" of illegal immigrants or any foreigners in the USA that do not have citizenship 
[9] Have Congress repeal Marbury vs Madison (so the Courts can't prevent the changed laws from taking place), Fred Thompson becomes President (hope of hopes he runs), Republicans get gonads and win the Senate and change the Fillibuster Rules so Robert Byrd can't fillibuster the whole thing from his wheelchair.

....ah well.. in America I can dream of these things happening.....probably won't however...

flagringo

P.S. this same scenario started happening after WWII when Eisenhower was President.  He deployed the Army along the border, and rousted the illegals from the farms; the whole problem was solved quickly and without the mainstream news media trying to subvert the American Rule of Law by taking the side of the illegals. 

[william3rd]

if we got 1 2 7 8 that would be a good start.

[doombug]

Has this country become a bunch of defeatists ready to surrender to every problem that comes along?

Sadly, yep.

Those aztlan nazis marching in the streets put the fear of God in many of our, now, neutered citizenry.

And, boy, what chutzpah many a first-generation immigrant has nowadays! They've done a swell job fomenting the belief that it's okay for outsiders to disobey any law that might impede their right to a fat paycheck here. While the "prosperous" gringo is frequently required to bear a valid SS card, driver's license, auto insurance policy, identity document, etc., the border hopper--by virtue of some assumed decrepitude or destitution--is given a pass to all of the above. As they pick our broccoli and sauté our onions, our gratitude must come in the form of "looking the other way" with regards to issues of legal presence. For as compassionate host citizens, we must be both accomplice and benefactor to those who hop our fences.

And, come on now. It takes little effort--and even less evidence--to brand anyone who favors strict, effective immigration laws a "restrictionist" (read: "racist").

For the recently naturalized who holds the right of the guest above that of the host, a refresher course is in store:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

And a final tip to all immigrant lurkers reading this thread: Should you succeed in reaching our golden shores (you know, the one with Golden Arches as far as the eye can see) and happen to encounter the occassional roadblock, remember to reach back into that rear pocket of yours and, depending on the circumstance, pull out either the I'm a victim!â„¢ or the You're a racist!â„¢ card.

Individual responsibility is no longer a concern here.

[Christopher]

The original amnesty provided for prison for the employers. Lets get back to basics and start enforcing the law. If employers know that the shekels that they save today may be paying for legal fees tomorrow, then I think that the "food supply" will be reduced.

Agreed.

[Christopher]

Christopher,

Now who is being absurd here? Of course the proposed border fence would be patrolled, have towers, and be equipped with the latest in electronic monitoring. Did you really think that we were going to just put up a fence and then leave it unattended? Do you even know anything about it?

You obviously have not heard or read any of the details on the proposed border fence or the law that mandated it so I find it impossible to debate the merits of such with you. PLEASE study up on this before trying to put it down. The fence is not a big joke as the open border pundits would have you believe.

And I don’t understand your pessimism on the idea of deporting any illegal aliens. You aren’t even willing to try it, just like the wimpy politicians who are scared to death to enforce our laws. You can’t label something a failure without trying it first. Just because you don’t understand how it may possibly work doesn’t mean it’s hopeless. Has this country become a bunch of defeatists ready to surrender to every problem that comes along? Sometimes I wonder.

Of course illegals want to come here to work. And some just want to come here to kill and rape our citizens. So you will just throw your hands up in the air in defeat and hope the problem will go away magically, while who knows what is crossing our borders? Get real man! If you start locking up those employers and take away the freebies then 90% of intending will stay home and many of those already here will leave because there will be nothing for them. Then we can concentrate on keeping the terrorists and rapists out!

And no the illegal alien problem is not the same as the drug problem. That’s just a cop out to justify doing absolutely nothing.

I really don’t understand all of this negativism when it comes to protecting our borders. Stop listening to the whackos who want open borders and free immigration for all! If you use that wonderful mind of yours instead of listening to others you may be surprised at how manageable this whole immigration thing can be. Just try thinking instead of automatically condemning.

Ray

So it's 2000 miles.  That's still a LOT of territory.

You're talking about the vote in December 2005 (HR 4437, S 2611) for the triple layer fence, I assume.  That's the most comprehensive vote I can find on the issue in House or Senate, and it proposed 860 miles of fence.  Do the math.

If I've got the wrong set of bills, let me know.  Guess I don't know anything about it. 

As for deporting them en masse, talking about it is fine.  Who's going to pay for it?  Where are we going to get the people to man this border, find all the illegals and drive the 100,000 buses it's going to take to deport them.

Or, even, where we find 100,000 buses?

[Christopher]

Solving the Illegal Immigration Invasion from Mexico/Central America;

[1] enforce existing immigration laws
[2] build the fence
[3] make employers join the SSN# verification service for all existing and new hires
[4] allow the IRS to compare SSN #'s on the employers form  941 with existing SSN info on file at the Social Security Administration (currently they can't do it legally).  Arrest & prosecute employers that have illegal SSN#'s on their quarterly 941's after a grace period. 
[5] Hire Manpower/CareerBuilder.com type company to set up a guest worker program, requiring prospective employees to sign up for the service in major cities 500 miles or farther away from the US Border.  (this encourages 11 million illegals to leave voluntarily, no buses needed).  Farmers/hotels/low wage employers can advertise for help in the USA via the website, when it is not filled in a reasonable length of time, a slot is opened up for a "guest worker"
[6] Legal Guest workers will have a tamper proof biometric ID card (similar to the DOD ID card I think). 
[7] Sanction employers $10,000 for each guest worker that does not return across the border after their 2 or 3 year term expires (employer pays for guest worker travel to and from their homecountry.  They would just hire a specialized transit security company to do it).  The $10,000 fine pays for ICE to pick the illegals up when they find them.
[8]  Repeal any laws granting citizenship for "anchor babies" of illegal immigrants or any foreigners in the USA that do not have citizenship 
[9] Have Congress repeal Marbury vs Madison (so the Courts can't prevent the changed laws from taking place), Fred Thompson becomes President (hope of hopes he runs), Republicans get gonads and win the Senate and change the Fillibuster Rules so Robert Byrd can't fillibuster the whole thing from his wheelchair.

....ah well.. in America I can dream of these things happening.....probably won't however...

flagringo

P.S. this same scenario started happening after WWII when Eisenhower was President.  He deployed the Army along the border, and rousted the illegals from the farms; the whole problem was solved quickly and without the mainstream news media trying to subvert the American Rule of Law by taking the side of the illegals. 

That's not all half bad, but the anchor babies issue isn't a matter of passing a law - that's specifically in the Constitution and would require an amendment.

[Christopher]

Anyone know the rate of crimes committed by illegal aliens is?

That's a trick question....

[Ray]

So it's 2000 miles.  That's still a LOT of territory.

You're talking about the vote in December 2005 (HR 4437, S 2611) for the triple layer fence, I assume.  That's the most comprehensive vote I can find on the issue in House or Senate, and it proposed 860 miles of fence.  Do the math.

If I've got the wrong set of bills, let me know.  Guess I don't know anything about it. 

Never Ass-U-Me   

Actually it's about 700 miles and it only covers the highest problem areas.

The bill that put the border fence into law is H.R. 6061, know as the Secure Fence Act of 2006, signed into law last October.

The bill had bipartisan support but wasn't fully funded at the time of passage. Since both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid voted NO, I wouldn't hold my breath that this thing gets built any time too soon. Note that Hillary and Obama both voted YES (I wonder if Gary B will still vote for him? ROFL!). Both senators from California also voted YES.

Hopefully the fence will go up and eventually the gaps will be closed.

Look up the bill and read it (it's fairly short) and then let us know what you think.

Ray

[Ray]

Or, even, where we find 100,000 buses?

No problem. We already have that covered...

[Christopher]

Never Ass-U-Me   

Actually it's about 700 miles and it only covers the highest problem areas.

The bill that put the border fence into law is H.R. 6061, know as the Secure Fence Act of 2006, signed into law last October.

The bill had bipartisan support but wasn't fully funded at the time of passage. Since both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid voted NO, I wouldn't hold my breath that this thing gets built any time too soon. Note that Hillary and Obama both voted YES (I wonder if Gary B will still vote for him? ROFL!). Both senators from California also voted YES.

Hopefully the fence will go up and eventually the gaps will be closed.

Look up the bill and read it (it's fairly short) and then let us know what you think.

Ray

Yeah, 700 miles still doesn't translate into 1951 miles for me.

Plus, again, it might be fun to talk about, but that fence would have to be manned, and I mean massively, 24/7.  Where do we get the personnel?  If you have 12 people per mile (and that translates into a measly 4 people per mile because you have to have shifts), that's 8400 people, plus support personnel.  You're talking a good 10,000 to 12,000 people.  We can barely find 21,000 troops to surge with in Iraq, and you want us to put tens of thousands more along the border?  Where does the billions of dollars for this come from?  It isn't a one-time shot, either.  You have to fund it every year.

And that still only covers a little over a third of the border.

You want to do this right, Ray?  Plug the gaps and all?  You need at least 20 people per mile per shift, that's....um...carry the 3....120,000 people.  Plus support personnel and we're now at around 150,000 people.

150,000 people patrolling a border night and day.  Just salaries alone would be, what, a half a billion per year?  Plus, it's just a bit too East German for my taste.

YMMV.

Nice train, above.  Got 1000 more of them, plus about another 150,000 people needed (at the very least) to find, arrest, and transport your deportees south.

Weren't you advocating SMALLER government before, or did I miss that?

[Ray]

Oh, the Nattering Nabobs of Negativism!   

Yeah, 700 miles still doesn't translate into 1951 miles for me.

Christopher, you keep smoking that weed and it’ll translate into anything you wish…

but that fence would have to be manned, and I mean massively, 24/7. Where do we get the personnel? If you have 12 people per mile (and that translates into a measly 4 people per mile because you have to have shifts), that's 8400 people, plus support personnel. You're talking a good 10,000 to 12,000 people. We can barely find 21,000 troops to surge with in Iraq, and you want us to put tens of thousands more along the border? Where does the billions of dollars for this come from?

Relax Christopher before you blow a gasket! Deep breath!   O.K., is that better?

It won’t cost a penny. The Minutemen have already volunteered to man the whole damn thing and they have their own insurance too. And Taco Bell has volunteered to cater their lunch every day for the next 250 years.

Nice train, above. Got 1000 more of them, plus about another 150,000 people needed (at the very least) to find, arrest, and transport your deportees south… or did I miss that?

Yes Christopher, you missed the train again! But not to worry, there are plenty more behind that one. There is a plan to temporarily turn the voltage up to 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 volts on the Tijuana Trolley tracks so the trains will be able to carry all 11 million illegals (and their pets) to the border in an estimated 36 hours. The trains are fully automated so we won’t need drivers, and California ex-governor Gray Davis has graciously offered to pay for the electricity.

The government also has a secret plan to offer a $50 reward to any American making a citizen’s arrest of an illegal alien and delivering him/her (with pets) to the nearest Tijuana Trolley stop. That comes out to a measly 550 million, which by the way is slightly less than Ted Kennedy spends on booze in a year. 

Any more questions Christopher?

[Ray]

Hey flagringo, great plan!

Send that to your congressman... 

[Christopher]

Just one question, Ray?  What are you drinking, because I want some.

[catz]

Guys,

 Take a chill pill on this one. It is obvious to all that you two will never come to any agreement on this topic.

Thanks much,
 Catz

[Ray]

Just one question, Ray?  What are you drinking, because I want some.

     

I'll send you a bottle... 

Peace,

Ray

[Christopher]

     I'll send you a bottle... 

Peace,

Ray

Somehow I think it's much more alcoholic than that....

[william3rd]

The problem of a sovereign nation has in controlling its borders will certainly not be settled on these boards. However, the sovereign has an absolute right in determining who shall come here and under what conditions that they may remain.

If the "food supply" is curtailed, then the "undocumented" will remain at home.

[doombug]

I just hope that when I retire in Spain, Colombia, or Haiti, the locals accommodate my particular wants and needs.

First, I'd like to be given rent-free board in one of those exclusive homes on the hills above the shanty towns.

Second, I'd like city officials to scour the populace for the most beautiful, fertile, twentysomething females, and have ten of them waiting at the airport to receive me.

Third, all restaurants will change their hours of operation to suit my late night dining habit. And a purge bucket will be made available next to my table for those moments when I bite into something unusual.

Fourth, every shop will have someone on hand who's fluent in English--and they must be dressed professionally, no shorter than 5'5", and smell of high-end cologne/perfume.

Fifth, dry cleaning for my 12'x18' U.S. flag will be free throughout the country. And when on display, it will be a crime for any local to spit, sneer, or fart in it's general direction. (Now should they torch my precious banner...oh, hell no! Death penalty!)

Sixth, country music and/or rap music, even they both give me an aneurysm, will be in continual rotation in the dance clubs, restaurants, taxis, and elevators whenever I'm out and about. I need to feel as if I haven't left home.

Seventh, the government of whichever nation I retire to will ammend property right laws to include this simple provision: My neighbors property is my property, too. Oh, and while we're at it, go ahead and ammend family law as well: Your wife is my wife, too.

Eighth, the host nation will be purged of roosters. I will not be woken before noon each day!   

Ninth, any cinema I visit will show my face on the screen along with this caption: "Please keep silent. [My name]'s in the viewing audience." And I will be allowed free refills on my popcorn and soda.

As long as my needs/demands will be met when I relocate abroad some day, then I don't have any issue with the fence hoppers getting theirs met here today. 

Fair enough?

[Disclaimer for the bleeding hearts: I am hardcore, pro-immigrant--just like you. But, equally, hardcore anti-fence hopper--unlike you.]