Why do they change their profile Foto when I send them a message on WhatsApp?

[Awesome]

Shes 33 and a lawyer- that s enough info. for you.

Right on.  It looks like you're finally on the right track. 


So how did you two meet?  Were you introduced through mutual friends, an agency, cupid site?  Did you randomly meet at the grocery store or at the gym?  Are you a client of hers?  Do you two live in the same city?  None of these are personal questions, so you shouldn't have any problem answering, unless of course there's something that you're ashamed of.

[AndyLee]

Ha ha naw...I think it may be best if I just post whatever the f*ck I want! Don't like it don't read it.

+1


There is a feature on Planet Love that enables you to ignore posters. I found it is easier just to ignore someone than it is to try to reason with them, Ray and Awesome for example.
Buencamino is spot on. If you don´t like my posts don´t read them. If you can´t resist reading them, then put me on Ignore.

[AndyLee]

This was originally posted by JWR...thanks guy, good stuff
How to add someone to your ignore list:
Click on Profile
Account settings
Modify Profile
Buddies/Ignore List
Edit Ignore List
Add the member you want to Ignore

[Awesome]

Andylee you're a first class coward.  You call me a "slimy" "ugly American" for smoking weed in the park, then when I call you out for being an old pervert in his sixties who brags about sleeping with teenagers in a third world country all of a sudden you want to use the "ignore" cop out like a scared little coward.


I once thought you were a respectable level headed guy.  Now I realize you never deserved any respect.  And for the record you attacked me first, and now you want to run away with your tail between your legs.  Coward.


You're pathetic.


Will someone please quote me so the SLIMY little coward can see what I'm posting.

[buencamino2]

Just calling your thread out as racist...

Hey Mumble this will interest you, all about the history of Colombia's "afrodescendientes":

http://www.banrepcultural.org/blaavirtual/geografia/geofraf1/huellas.htm

[Chris F]

Andylee you're a first class coward.  You call me a "slimy" "ugly American" for smoking weed in the park, then when I call you out for being an old pervert in his sixties who brags about sleeping with teenagers in a third world country all of a sudden you want to use the "ignore" cop out like a scared little coward.

Why I have nothing against Andy, and feel his posts can be of high value considering he lives in Colombia I have to agree with Awsomes assessment here regarding Andys behavior

Andy since I respectfully agree with Awesome you are free to put me on your ignore list as well

[Elexpatriado]

While I dont want to take sides, and I really think it is bad that people get into name calling or use words like, "Pervert", "Slimy", "Scumbag" or any of that (or even "Racist" for that matter), or be judgemental in anyway, I would like to point out what I believe your average Colombian would think of this situation, as Awesome asked in his quote below.
My only comment about Awesome is I would classify him as being a bit immature, a fair bit crazy,  more as a Troll, trying to always stir things up, and getting people excited. He has taken On CaliPro, Robert Angel (on a few occaisions), BCC, MUDD, Myself, and now Andy Lee, amongst others. I would not classify him as a "Slimey or an "Ugly American" or anything harsh without knowing him personally. Just a crazy troll.
As far as what Colombians would think of this situation, as Awesome asked, It is a totally different culture, and people dont think like they do in  North America or Europe, or even in other Latin American Countries for that matter.
It is not normal for someone in their 50s or 60s to be dating someone very young, but it is generally accepted. I have met several taxi drivers 60 years and plus who have Novias of 18 or19 years of age. I imagine there are a few even younger, but I try not to think about it (Yuck).
And there is a large segment of the population that is very anti-drug, and always talking about how they cant stand the Marijuaneros.
I have talked to a lot of people about this. Okay, the feeling may be different in the estratos 5 and 6, amongst University students, but they only make up less than 20% of the population. For the majority of the Colombian population, the feeling can be generalized by the conversation with my maid, summarized below.
"What do you think of guys who are in their 50s or 60s who date girls 18 or 19 year olds?"
Ans.: "Don´t think it is a good idea good. It wont last , the girl is only there for money" (Well that may be true in all Colombiana / Foreigner cases, but money obviously becomes a much greater issue with a large age difference)
"Do you think the man is bad ?"
Ans: "No, I just dont think it is a good idea."
"What do you think is worse , the old guy dating the young girls, or the Marijuana smoker?"
"Los Marijuaneros son peores..no me gusta ellos"
While this is how Colombians think, it is obviously not how Foreigners think.
I have never had a physical relationship with a women under 20 in Colombia. I used to think guys in their 50s or 60s dating these girls (18 or 19 year olds)  were perverts, but after awhile I came to see that many of these relationships were mutually beneficial and  , at times respectful, and I have seen several that have lasted 5 or 6 years.
I don´t want to be judgemental of anyone, I dont care how old the guy is , as long as the girl, is 18 years or older. That is where I draw the line. Same with Marijuana smokers, if they keep to themselves, and are peaceful. Or anyone else for that matter.
The main thing is to be modest, not come across as a braggart,  and most importantly, treat people with class and respect. Its better to keep some things to yourself than broadcast all your personal details to everyone on the internet. Believe me while there is nothing inheritently evil about the following things,  how many young chicks you have had or how many fights you have gotten into, how many bars you have passed out in, or how big of a doobie you scored, theses things  are in NO WAY anything  to brag about. Not say people are bragging on this site, maybe just saying  things matter-of -factly, but still this is something for people to think about. A little modesty and civiliy never hurt.
I hope I have not offended anyone, as it was in no way my intention to do so. This is only my personal experience from living in Colombia, and people can disagree, if they want to of course.
Mountains, valleys, Bird watching, beaches and butterflies may be boring, but they dont offend people´s sensitivities.
 

Let's ask any Colombian or anybody at all for that matter who's slimier, a young guy who smokes weed in a hippy park or a old pervert in his sixties who goes to a poor country to bed teenagers??  Who gives Americans a worse reputation you or me?

[AndyLee]

Andy since I respectfully agree with Awesome you are free to put me on your ignore list as well

No problem, got it covered.

[Chris F]

No problem, got it covered.

With so few members here, if anyone finds it necessary to start blocking members, that member may find that in short order that the only posts they will be reading are their own

[pontiac]

That's the best post I've seen on this thread Chris  !

[buencamino2]

While I dont want to take sides, and I really think it is bad that people get into name calling or use words like, "Pervert", "Slimy", "Scumbag" or any of that (or even "Racist" for that matter), or be judgemental in anyway, I would like to point out what I believe your average Colombian would think of this situation, as Awesome asked in his quote below.
My only comment about Awesome is I would classify him as being a bit immature, a fair bit crazy,  more as a Troll, trying to always stir things up, and getting people excited. He has taken On CaliPro, Robert Angel (on a few occaisions), BCC, MUDD, Myself, and now Andy Lee, amongst others. I would not classify him as a "Slimey or an "Ugly American" or anything harsh without knowing him personally. Just a crazy troll.
As far as what Colombians would think of this situation, as Awesome asked, It is a totally different culture, and people dont think like they do in  North America or Europe, or even in other Latin American Countries for that matter.
It is not normal for someone in their 50s or 60s to be dating someone very young, but it is generally accepted. I have met several taxi drivers 60 years and plus who have Novias of 18 or19 years of age. I imagine there are a few even younger, but I try not to think about it (Yuck).
And there is a large segment of the population that is very anti-drug, and always talking about how they cant stand the Marijuaneros.
I have talked to a lot of people about this. Okay, the feeling may be different in the estratos 5 and 6, amongst University students, but they only make up less than 20% of the population. For the majority of the Colombian population, the feeling can be generalized by the conversation with my maid, summarized below.
"What do you think of guys who are in their 50s or 60s who date girls 18 or 19 year olds?"
Ans.: "Don´t think it is a good idea good. It wont last , the girl is only there for money" (Well that may be true in all Colombiana / Foreigner cases, but money obviously becomes a much greater issue with a large age difference)
"Do you think the man is bad ?"
Ans: "No, I just dont think it is a good idea."
"What do you think is worse , the old guy dating the young girls, or the Marijuana smoker?"
"Los Marijuaneros son peores..no me gusta ellos"
While this is how Colombians think, it is obviously not how Foreigners think.
I have never had a physical relationship with a women under 20 in Colombia. I used to think guys in their 50s or 60s dating these girls (18 or 19 year olds)  were perverts, but after awhile I came to see that many of these relationships were mutually beneficial and  , at times respectful, and I have seen several that have lasted 5 or 6 years.
I don´t want to be judgemental of anyone, I dont care how old the guy is , as long as the girl, is 18 years or older. That is where I draw the line. Same with Marijuana smokers, if they keep to themselves, and are peaceful. Or anyone else for that matter.
The main thing is to be modest, not come across as a braggart,  and most importantly, treat people with class and respect. Its better to keep some things to yourself than broadcast all your personal details to everyone on the internet. Believe me while there is nothing inheritently evil about the following things,  how many young chicks you have had or how many fights you have gotten into, how many bars you have passed out in, or how big of a doobie you scored, theses things  are in NO WAY anything  to brag about. Not say people are bragging on this site, maybe just saying  things matter-of -factly, but still this is something for people to think about. A little modesty and civiliy never hurt.
I hope I have not offended anyone, as it was in no way my intention to do so. This is only my personal experience from living in Colombia, and people can disagree, if they want to of course.
Mountains, valleys, Bird watching, beaches and butterflies may be boring, but they dont offend people´s sensitivities.

That was a fine post. Kudos to you.

[buencamino2]

Actually reminds of the time a few years ago the wife of I guy I know wanted to introduce me to a girl in Carmelo (out past Juanchaco). I drove out and sat down in the woman's house with her and the girl for an introductory chat. When the girl left I said to the woman she's very nice but how old is she. Seventeen. Oh no sorry I can't do that, too young. No? she said, why not? The man who left her for another woman was fifty five. It just didn't even occur to the woman that there would be anything wrong with my dating the girl or having her move in with me. Another time a woman in her fifties wrote to me on cupido and said I'm not writing for me but for a friend I'd like to introduce you to. I met them at a mall for coffee and the woman introduced me to her friend who was clearly a young girl. She said the girl had a rough life and bad parents and needed a responsible gringo gentleman like my self to live with. The girl was beaming throughout but didn't say much. When I got them to tell me how old she was the answer was sixteen. Unbelievable! And she was evidently all ready to go home with me from that meeting and start cooking supper. I thanked them for an enjoyable conversation and gave them bus fare back to Yumbo (and said phew!!!). So yes the culture and attitudes are quite different from those in US but that's often not readily apparent on the surface.

[mambocowboy]

Why I have nothing against Andy, and feel his posts can be of high value considering he lives in Colombia I have to agree with Awsomes assessment here regarding Andys behavior

Andy since I respectfully agree with Awesome you are free to put me on your ignore list as well

Me too

[fathertime]

Actually reminds of the time a few years ago the wife of I guy I know wanted to introduce me to a girl in Carmelo (out past Juanchaco). I drove out and sat down in the woman's house with her and the girl for an introductory chat. When the girl left I said to the woman she's very nice but how old is she. Seventeen. Oh no sorry I can't do that, too young. No? she said, why not? The man who left her for another woman was fifty five. It just didn't even occur to the woman that there would be anything wrong with my dating the girl or having her move in with me. Another time a woman in her fifties wrote to me on cupido and said I'm not writing for me but for a friend I'd like to introduce you to. I met them at a mall for coffee and the woman introduced me to her friend who was clearly a young girl. She said the girl had a rough life and bad parents and needed a responsible gringo gentleman like my self to live with. The girl was beaming throughout but didn't say much. When I got them to tell me how old she was the answer was sixteen. Unbelievable! And she was evidently all ready to go home with me from that meeting and start cooking supper. I thanked them for an enjoyable conversation and gave them bus fare back to Yumbo (and said phew!!!). So yes the culture and attitudes are quite different from those in US but that's often not readily apparent on the surface.

Interesting stories. 


Fathertime! 

[AndyLee]

........I would classify him as being a bit immature, a fair bit crazy,  more as a Troll, trying to always stir things up, and getting people excited. He has taken On CaliPro, Robert Angel (on a few occaisions), BCC, MUDD, Myself, and now Andy Lee, amongst others. I would not classify him as a "Slimey or an "Ugly American" or anything harsh without knowing him personally. Just a crazy troll.

You are right about these beginner trolls, always trying to bait someone into an argument so they can attempt to prove their superiority. This one sounds like a Ray Jr. wannabe. I learned about trolls on a forum that had several masters. This guy is a long way from being a master. More likely he is just a prepubescent wannabe master baiter. Only way to handle beginner trolls is ignore them.

[Dan Las Vegas]

With so few members here, if anyone finds it necessary to start blocking members, that member may find that in short order that the only posts they will be reading are their own

+1

[buencamino2]

One place Andy and Expat didn’t mention in their travel accounts is Quibdó, the capital of Chocó department.  I had a half day layover there on the way to Nuqui´when I went with an ex novia a few years ago. It’s a small city out in the middle of the jungle and looks like a place straight out of a Joseph Conrad novel. In fact, I would be a bit surprised if he based his book Nostradamus on it.

When we arrived at the brand new Chinese built airport, I wanted to use our layover time to see the place so I went up to a cop and asked him where the tourist center was. That was kind of a joke because there isn’t any and he gave me a look like huh? But then we all walked outside to the few waiting taxis and he had a long talk with one of the drivers. I couldn’t hear, but my girlfriend thought she heard him say something like listen you, you take this gringo and his girlfriend downtown  and make damn sure you get them back here later… or else.  He didn’t want the bother of a gringo going missing.

The driver was cool and in fact he really did wait for us all afternoon  no doubt per the cops instructions but only charged for the round trip. To be fair, there’s a big cathedral and expansive Malecon on the bank of the Rio Atrato which could be considered touristy. After checking out that we walked into Quibdó’s crazy and bustling El Centro. Without exception the people in the street were Black (mostly) and Embera Indians. My girlfriend got nervous (street experience from Cali) even though her own grandmother is Black but I didn’t see any especially shady characters and in fact a lot of people smiled at us.  This notwithstanding the fact that Quibdó is known to be a haven of FARC and ELN guerrilla, disbanded paramilitaries turned drug gang members  and illegal gold mining. Anyway I did kind of  stick out.  After wandering through El Centro we went back to our waiting taxista and returned to the airport. It was there while waiting for our flight to Nuquí that I finally saw a really shady looking character who was probably a “pesado” in illegal gold mining,  a tall Black man with a scared face wearing big gold earrings, lots of gold chains who had completely gold covered teeth  top and bottom and gold plated fingernails on both hands. Thought better of asking to take his picture.

[utopiacowboy]

Actually reminds of the time a few years ago the wife of I guy I know wanted to introduce me to a girl in Carmelo (out past Juanchaco). I drove out and sat down in the woman's house with her and the girl for an introductory chat. When the girl left I said to the woman she's very nice but how old is she. Seventeen. Oh no sorry I can't do that, too young. No? she said, why not? The man who left her for another woman was fifty five. It just didn't even occur to the woman that there would be anything wrong with my dating the girl or having her move in with me. Another time a woman in her fifties wrote to me on cupido and said I'm not writing for me but for a friend I'd like to introduce you to. I met them at a mall for coffee and the woman introduced me to her friend who was clearly a young girl. She said the girl had a rough life and bad parents and needed a responsible gringo gentleman like my self to live with. The girl was beaming throughout but didn't say much. When I got them to tell me how old she was the answer was sixteen. Unbelievable! And she was evidently all ready to go home with me from that meeting and start cooking supper. I thanked them for an enjoyable conversation and gave them bus fare back to Yumbo (and said phew!!!). So yes the culture and attitudes are quite different from those in US but that's often not readily apparent on the surface.

It's hard to imagine the kind of lives some of these people have had. There was a couple who took care of my mother-in-law's finca for her. The guy was ancient and the woman was a young girl. After she committed suicide we found out the story behind it.


Her family had lived in the jungle near the Darien and after her father was killed by the FARC, the mother and her children fled to Cordoba. The mother had no way of taking care of her kids and started farming them out to whoever would take them. She basically sold the girl to this old guy and they came to live on my mother-in-law's finca. She was pretty miserable there and finally swallowed some rat poison in an attempt to commit suicide. They rushed her off to the hospital in Monteria when she was discovered but she ended up dying there. It's a shocking story to a gringo but to a Colombian, there's nothing shocking about it - there are too many similar stories to count.

[Chris F]

While I dont want to take sides, and I really think it is bad that people get into name calling or use words like, "Pervert", "Slimy", "Scumbag" or any of that (or even "Racist" for that matter), or be judgemental in anyway, I would like to point out what I believe your average Colombian would think of this situation, as Awesome asked in his quote below.
My only comment about Awesome is I would classify him as being a bit immature, a fair bit crazy,  more as a Troll, trying to always stir things up, and getting people excited. He has taken On CaliPro, Robert Angel (on a few occaisions), BCC, MUDD, Myself, and now Andy Lee, amongst others. I would not classify him as a "Slimey or an "Ugly American" or anything harsh without knowing him personally. Just a crazy troll.
As far as what Colombians would think of this situation, as Awesome asked, It is a totally different culture, and people dont think like they do in  North America or Europe, or even in other Latin American Countries for that matter.
It is not normal for someone in their 50s or 60s to be dating someone very young, but it is generally accepted. I have met several taxi drivers 60 years and plus who have Novias of 18 or19 years of age. I imagine there are a few even younger, but I try not to think about it (Yuck).
And there is a large segment of the population that is very anti-drug, and always talking about how they cant stand the Marijuaneros.
I have talked to a lot of people about this. Okay, the feeling may be different in the estratos 5 and 6, amongst University students, but they only make up less than 20% of the population. For the majority of the Colombian population, the feeling can be generalized by the conversation with my maid, summarized below.
"What do you think of guys who are in their 50s or 60s who date girls 18 or 19 year olds?"
Ans.: "Don´t think it is a good idea good. It wont last , the girl is only there for money" (Well that may be true in all Colombiana / Foreigner cases, but money obviously becomes a much greater issue with a large age difference)
"Do you think the man is bad ?"
Ans: "No, I just dont think it is a good idea."
"What do you think is worse , the old guy dating the young girls, or the Marijuana smoker?"
"Los Marijuaneros son peores..no me gusta ellos"
While this is how Colombians think, it is obviously not how Foreigners think.
I have never had a physical relationship with a women under 20 in Colombia. I used to think guys in their 50s or 60s dating these girls (18 or 19 year olds)  were perverts, but after awhile I came to see that many of these relationships were mutually beneficial and  , at times respectful, and I have seen several that have lasted 5 or 6 years.
I don´t want to be judgemental of anyone, I dont care how old the guy is , as long as the girl, is 18 years or older. That is where I draw the line. Same with Marijuana smokers, if they keep to themselves, and are peaceful. Or anyone else for that matter.
The main thing is to be modest, not come across as a braggart,  and most importantly, treat people with class and respect. Its better to keep some things to yourself than broadcast all your personal details to everyone on the internet. Believe me while there is nothing inheritently evil about the following things,  how many young chicks you have had or how many fights you have gotten into, how many bars you have passed out in, or how big of a doobie you scored, theses things  are in NO WAY anything  to brag about. Not say people are bragging on this site, maybe just saying  things matter-of -factly, but still this is something for people to think about. A little modesty and civiliy never hurt.
I hope I have not offended anyone, as it was in no way my intention to do so. This is only my personal experience from living in Colombia, and people can disagree, if they want to of course.
Mountains, valleys, Bird watching, beaches and butterflies may be boring, but they dont offend people´s sensitivities.

Great post Expat.

I feel there is one point I would like to clarify regarding me agreeing with Awsome's assessment.  I do not believe that Andy is an old pervert because he dates young woman. I do believe that he is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. If he is going to however throw harsh judgemental comments about someone's behavior (calling Awesome a "slimy gringo" for smoking pot in the park...which I also disagree with, but he is entitled to his opinion) than he better be ready to have someone pass judgement on his behavior as well.
 
Andy cannot handle that. So he hits the ignore button acting like a distraught high school drama queen.  That was acting like a coward.
 
Just like he did with Ray when Andy posted his political opinion. Ray posted his and soon Andy bans him as well. Could not handle it.
 
As Expat stated, sometimes it's best not to post too much personal information in a PUBLIC FORUM.  If anyone choose to do that, dont cry, hit the ignore button, make drama threats that you are going to leaving the forum, etc.. if someone decides to pass judgement on you.
 
Be a man and respond back.

[Awesome]

Just like he did with Ray when Andy posted his political opinion. Ray posted his and soon Andy bans him as well. Could not handle it.

Exactly.  I remember andylee started a political debate, then when ray responded andylee started crying how he wished ray would leave the board and how ray should be banned bla bla bla.  I don't agree with ray's politics, but I don't think he should be silenced just because we disagree.


This reminds me of when I used to take my 5 year old nephew to soccer practice.  He would throw a fit and start crying when the other kids would take the ball away from him.  I had to explain to him, that's the point of the game!  You have to outdo the other kids if you want to keep possession of the ball.  They're not supposed to just sit back and let you have the ball the whole game.  If you want to win you have to play by the same rules as everyone else.  The other players have just as much right as you do to try to win the game.


Andylee is the type who expects everyone to just fall in line with whatever he posts, I guess just because he's "big important mister andylee".  He doesn't realize that the only person who thinks he's powerful and important is HIM.  He has a delusional sense of self importance.  That attitude is probably why he's currently a strange old nomad roaming around a foreign third world country, trying to be somebody important on internet message boards.




I knew something was off about andylee when he started that weird crap accusing expat of stalking him and throwing firecrackers at his house or whatever that strange nonsense he was babbling about a while back.  The poor old guy's obviously got a few screws loose.  Could you imagine some crazy old fart like him dating your 18 year old daughter, niece, or neighbor?   That's a scary thought. 

[AndyLee]

buencamino, hanks for that trip report to Quibdo, Choco. Very interesting.
I have only had two occasions to visit the state of Choco. The first time was to meet a girl who lived in a tiny pueblo called San Jose de Palmar, about five hours by bus northwest of Cartago, Valle del Cauca. The last two hours of that bus ride were on dirt roads that had been heavily damaged by the extreme rains the previous winter.
The scenery was remarkable, high mountains, deep valleys and dense jungle interspersed with small farms, mostly cows and plantain and yucca. At the lower elevations were a few coffee farms and in the valleys there were scattered farms of vegetables and fruits.
There were about 300 families living there, a mix of black, indigenous and Latino. The indigenous are the tribe Embra Chami you mentioned in Quibdo. They speak their own dialect but most of the younger generations also speak Spanish. I was charmed by their easy going lifestyle and friendliness. Especially the kids, who´s facial expressions could go from solemn and stoic to brilliant smiles in the blink of an eye if something struck them funny.
The girl I went to meet was very sweet. She owned a little negocio selling agricultural supplies to the local farmers. She also was studying online to become a kindergarten teacher. She had a six year old son who was a really nice kid. I enjoyed meeting them but didn´t have enough chemistry to continue a relationship. She is still on my Facebook and has recently gotten her degree and a job teaching in a village only two hours from Cartago.
My second trip to the state of Choco was to the village of Pueblo Rico on the north side of the Tatama National Park. Pueblo Rico is the center of the Embra Chami people and most of the village is made up of blacks, indigenous and Latino. The people were very friendly and I was probably the first gringo many of them had ever seen. I needed a translator to talk to most of them in their native language.
The reason I went there was because of the National Park. It is a huge mountain range nearly 50 miles long made up from an extinct volcano. The highest peak is around 15,000 feet.
There are three hikes to access the park. The first is a day hike out of the Eco Hotel in the vereda of San Rafael. The second is a three day roundtrip hike to the meadows, a huge plateau at about 12,000 feet elevation. This requires a guide who provides meals and tents for 50,000 per person.
There are dozens of springs forming three small lakes and from here originates 15 different creeks flowing down off the mountains. The mountain range is part of the continental divide and 11 of the creeks flow to rivers leading to the Atlantic, and the other 4 flow to the Pacific. We teased each other about pissing off the ridge and hitting two oceans.
From the Meadows there is another 3 days roundtrip to the peaks overlooking the Meadows. Part of the hike is a 200 foot rope climb up a steep cliff leading up from the Meadows.
My time in Pueblo Rico was pretty short, but one thing struck me as noteworthy. North of the village in a tiny veranda the guerrillas had evicted 10 indigenous families form their farms and took the farms over to produce cocaine. The 10 families fled to the village, and not finding any place to stay continued on across the mountains to another village called Santuario in the state of Risaralda.
Here the 10 families literally commandeered an abandoned auction barn that had a 4 stall stable attached. The place was in a horrible mess but they set about making it their new home. They cleaned everything and put down throw rugs on the dirt floor and set out wash lines to do their laundry and they set up several cook fire rings.
The men took picks and shovels and dug a ditch about 200 yards to the nearest water and sewer lines and broke into the lines to create their own service. There was one working toilet and one working shower for all ten families, probably about 30 people total. Somehow they made it work.
Several months later President Santos announced his new national housing program, and the 10 families were some of the first participants. They were relocated from their barn and stable home to new little casitas. After that the village authorities tore down the old barn and stable and one of the local farmers wound up with the one toilet and one shower to install in his own home.
I´ve never really had an urge to visit Quibdo, the capital city of Choco. I have met several people from there over the years and I´ve noticed that the black people are really dark black and tall with surprisingly small heads. I wonder if that could be traced back to the part of Africa where they originated?

[robert angel]

There are dozens of springs forming three small lakes and from here originates 15 different creeks flowing down off the mountains. The mountain range is part of the continental divide and 11 of the creeks flow to rivers leading to the Atlantic, and the other 4 flow to the Pacific. We teased each other about pissing off the ridge and hitting two oceans.

Just when I thought I had a final draft of things to do, places to visit on my 'bucket list'.....

[Elexpatriado]

buencamino, hanks for that trip report to Quibdo, Choco. Very interesting.
I have only had two occasions to visit the state of Choco. The first time was to meet a girl who lived in a tiny pueblo called San Jose de Palmar, about five hours by bus northwest of Cartago, Valle del Cauca. The last two hours of that bus ride were on dirt roads that had been heavily damaged by the extreme rains the previous winter.
The scenery was remarkable, high mountains, deep valleys and dense jungle interspersed with small farms, mostly cows and plantain and yucca. At the lower elevations were a few coffee farms and in the valleys there were scattered farms of vegetables and fruits.
There were about 300 families living there, a mix of black, indigenous and Latino. The indigenous are the tribe Embra Chami you mentioned in Quibdo. They speak their own dialect but most of the younger generations also speak Spanish. I was charmed by their easy going lifestyle and friendliness. Especially the kids, who´s facial expressions could go from solemn and stoic to brilliant smiles in the blink of an eye if something struck them funny.
The girl I went to meet was very sweet. She owned a little negocio selling agricultural supplies to the local farmers. She also was studying online to become a kindergarten teacher. She had a six year old son who was a really nice kid. I enjoyed meeting them but didn´t have enough chemistry to continue a relationship. She is still on my Facebook and has recently gotten her degree and a job teaching in a village only two hours from Cartago.
My second trip to the state of Choco was to the village of Pueblo Rico on the north side of the Tatama National Park. Pueblo Rico is the center of the Embra Chami people and most of the village is made up of blacks, indigenous and Latino. The people were very friendly and I was probably the first gringo many of them had ever seen. I needed a translator to talk to most of them in their native language.
The reason I went there was because of the National Park. It is a huge mountain range nearly 50 miles long made up from an extinct volcano. The highest peak is around 15,000 feet.
There are three hikes to access the park. The first is a day hike out of the Eco Hotel in the vereda of San Rafael. The second is a three day roundtrip hike to the meadows, a huge plateau at about 12,000 feet elevation. This requires a guide who provides meals and tents for 50,000 per person.
There are dozens of springs forming three small lakes and from here originates 15 different creeks flowing down off the mountains. The mountain range is part of the continental divide and 11 of the creeks flow to rivers leading to the Atlantic, and the other 4 flow to the Pacific. We teased each other about pissing off the ridge and hitting two oceans.
From the Meadows there is another 3 days roundtrip to the peaks overlooking the Meadows. Part of the hike is a 200 foot rope climb up a steep cliff leading up from the Meadows.
My time in Pueblo Rico was pretty short, but one thing struck me as noteworthy. North of the village in a tiny veranda the guerrillas had evicted 10 indigenous families form their farms and took the farms over to produce cocaine. The 10 families fled to the village, and not finding any place to stay continued on across the mountains to another village called Santuario in the state of Risaralda.
Here the 10 families literally commandeered an abandoned auction barn that had a 4 stall stable attached. The place was in a horrible mess but they set about making it their new home. They cleaned everything and put down throw rugs on the dirt floor and set out wash lines to do their laundry and they set up several cook fire rings.
The men took picks and shovels and dug a ditch about 200 yards to the nearest water and sewer lines and broke into the lines to create their own service. There was one working toilet and one working shower for all ten families, probably about 30 people total. Somehow they made it work.
Several months later President Santos announced his new national housing program, and the 10 families were some of the first participants. They were relocated from their barn and stable home to new little casitas. After that the village authorities tore down the old barn and stable and one of the local farmers wound up with the one toilet and one shower to install in his own home.
I´ve never really had an urge to visit Quibdo, the capital city of Choco. I have met several people from there over the years and I´ve noticed that the black people are really dark black and tall with surprisingly small heads. I wonder if that could be traced back to the part of Africa where they originated?

Thanks for the report.After reading this and Buen Caminos report, and talking to my friends, I may change my mind and visit more arear on thePacific Coat, in Choco and Buenaventura some day: Hopefully it doesnt rain too much.

[buencamino2]

buencamino, hanks for that trip report to Quibdo, Choco. Very interesting.
I have only had two occasions to visit the state of Choco. The first time was to meet a girl who lived in a tiny pueblo called San Jose de Palmar, about five hours by bus northwest of Cartago, Valle del Cauca. The last two hours of that bus ride were on dirt roads that had been heavily damaged by the extreme rains the previous winter.
The scenery was remarkable, high mountains, deep valleys and dense jungle interspersed with small farms, mostly cows and plantain and yucca. At the lower elevations were a few coffee farms and in the valleys there were scattered farms of vegetables and fruits.
There were about 300 families living there, a mix of black, indigenous and Latino. The indigenous are the tribe Embra Chami you mentioned in Quibdo. They speak their own dialect but most of the younger generations also speak Spanish. I was charmed by their easy going lifestyle and friendliness. Especially the kids, who´s facial expressions could go from solemn and stoic to brilliant smiles in the blink of an eye if something struck them funny.
The girl I went to meet was very sweet. She owned a little negocio selling agricultural supplies to the local farmers. She also was studying online to become a kindergarten teacher. She had a six year old son who was a really nice kid. I enjoyed meeting them but didn´t have enough chemistry to continue a relationship. She is still on my Facebook and has recently gotten her degree and a job teaching in a village only two hours from Cartago.
My second trip to the state of Choco was to the village of Pueblo Rico on the north side of the Tatama National Park. Pueblo Rico is the center of the Embra Chami people and most of the village is made up of blacks, indigenous and Latino. The people were very friendly and I was probably the first gringo many of them had ever seen. I needed a translator to talk to most of them in their native language.
The reason I went there was because of the National Park. It is a huge mountain range nearly 50 miles long made up from an extinct volcano. The highest peak is around 15,000 feet.
There are three hikes to access the park. The first is a day hike out of the Eco Hotel in the vereda of San Rafael. The second is a three day roundtrip hike to the meadows, a huge plateau at about 12,000 feet elevation. This requires a guide who provides meals and tents for 50,000 per person.
There are dozens of springs forming three small lakes and from here originates 15 different creeks flowing down off the mountains. The mountain range is part of the continental divide and 11 of the creeks flow to rivers leading to the Atlantic, and the other 4 flow to the Pacific. We teased each other about pissing off the ridge and hitting two oceans.
From the Meadows there is another 3 days roundtrip to the peaks overlooking the Meadows. Part of the hike is a 200 foot rope climb up a steep cliff leading up from the Meadows.
My time in Pueblo Rico was pretty short, but one thing struck me as noteworthy. North of the village in a tiny veranda the guerrillas had evicted 10 indigenous families form their farms and took the farms over to produce cocaine. The 10 families fled to the village, and not finding any place to stay continued on across the mountains to another village called Santuario in the state of Risaralda.
Here the 10 families literally commandeered an abandoned auction barn that had a 4 stall stable attached. The place was in a horrible mess but they set about making it their new home. They cleaned everything and put down throw rugs on the dirt floor and set out wash lines to do their laundry and they set up several cook fire rings.
The men took picks and shovels and dug a ditch about 200 yards to the nearest water and sewer lines and broke into the lines to create their own service. There was one working toilet and one working shower for all ten families, probably about 30 people total. Somehow they made it work.
Several months later President Santos announced his new national housing program, and the 10 families were some of the first participants. They were relocated from their barn and stable home to new little casitas. After that the village authorities tore down the old barn and stable and one of the local farmers wound up with the one toilet and one shower to install in his own home.
I´ve never really had an urge to visit Quibdo, the capital city of Choco. I have met several people from there over the years and I´ve noticed that the black people are really dark black and tall with surprisingly small heads. I wonder if that could be traced back to the part of Africa where they originated?

Very interesting Andy. A small correction: Pueblo Rico is in Risaralda department not Chocó. The line separating the two departments is up along the cordillera. I'm not sure exactly where you're talking about but the actual pueblo of Pueblo Rico is the principal entry point to Parque Nacional Tatamá and as such sees quite a few gringos since the park is known for it's many endemic birds and plants. I visited about two years ago and stayed at the house of a nice lady up on the plane above the park entrance. I understand there's a visitors hotel right at the entrance now. Upon entering there's a long trail that goes all the way up to the ridge of the cordillera. That trail is actually a deteriorated old military road. Just ten years ago ago the area was controlled by the guerrilla so completely off limits for foreigners but Uribe put in one of his Batallones de Alta Montaña up at the divide and now it's perfectly safe to visit.

Regarding African origins I posted an excellent link to HUELLAS DE AFRICANIA EN LA  DIVERSIDAD COLOMBIANA  above in post #79. I think you would enjoy reading it.

[Awesome]

Fascinating stuff guys.  Does anybody have any experience visiting Leticia or Nuqui?  Those two places are definitely on my bucket list, Capurgana as well.